The OU Viability Ranking thread

[X5Dragon]

Tornadus-T needs to be S. It can bluff scarfs/specs/EB with ease, it's ability makes SR a non issue most of the time and can get away with LO recoil without them, it has an effective set and can work in Rain and unlike Thundrus-T OUT of rain as well. Not to mention with it's speed base it can outrun all nonscared OU mons.

I'm referencing the Rain Set which you arell familiar with and the Superpower/U-Turn, Acrobatics and HP Ice for the non Weather version.

[Arcticblast]

This isn't a placement issue but more of a list issue itself.

I honestly think we should place all of the Pokemon currently in OU before worrying about things like Cresselia and Sableye. A lot of Pokemon not actually in OU are viable, but shouldn't we give actual OU Pokemon priority?

[FaceFaceFace]

Noone else seeing Tyranitar as B?

[Haruno]

I would propose bumping terrakion up from A to S rank since thanks to it's excellent stabs there are next to nothing that can switch into it and the fact that it's absurdly fast by OU standards is just more reason to rank it higher since the only realistic counters to it are skarmory and mach/bullet punch users.

[Chimpakt]

Originally Posted by Fat Arcticblast

This isn't a placement issue but more of a list issue itself.

I honestly think we should place all of the Pokemon currently in OU before worrying about things like Cresselia and Sableye. A lot of Pokemon not actually in OU are viable, but shouldn't we give actual OU Pokemon priority?

OU is based on usage, while this list shows how effective a pokemon is in this metagame. A pokemon in lower tiers (Sableye) may not be as popular as a pokemon in OU (Metagross), but it can be more productive in a match.

This list is going to take a while to complete, so I don't think pokemon should have priority unless we start discussing pokemon that see very little use/success in OU like charizard.

[PK Gaming]

Update
=====

Reuniclus up from C tier ==> B tier
Cloyster up from C tier == > B tier
Hippowdown up from B tier == > A tier
Gastrodon add to B tier

====

On Ninetales not being in S-tier:
Sun is fantastic, Ninetales is not. Unlike the other weather starters, Ninetales doesn't really contribute to the team at all. It's actually a huge liability, since it's susceptible to Dugtrio, SR weak and has the offensive presence of Rattata. If Ninetales was a tiny bit better I could justify moving her up, but her mediocrity keeps her in A-tier imo (probably the reason why sun isn't everywhere too)

Terrakion in S-tier?
Gosh I don't know. Terrakion is ridiculously powerful and is one of the best offensive Genesect checks in the game (especially under Sand Storm). It's really, really, REALLY good, but is it really S-tier? You guys tell me!

[/B/utterfree]

I insist on promoting Abomasnow to either B Rank or A Rank. It's one of the best Politoed counters ever, and it does more than counter Politoed. Like Mamoswine, it easily revenges enemy Dragon-types with priority Ice Shard. Its mixed stats allow it to use a really superb movepool of both physical and special spectrums and defeat the other weather starters with ease. Beating Ninetales on the switch, for example, with Earthquake allows you to win the weather war against Sun (and switchins to Ninetales are immensely predictable).

It's definitely no S Rank Pokemon, although Snow Warning is a really good ability and Abomasnow is one of the perfect Pokemon to use Snow Warning. Even if Abomasnow dies, its passive damage contributes exceedingly heavily to winning the game against many foes.

[lordkira]

What makes terrakion so much better than the likes of garchomp, keldeo, landorus, lati@s, tornadus-t, dragonite, and more? To be honest, if terrakion goes up so should the preivously mentioned. And I don't believe any of them are S-tier worthy.

[PenguinX]

Originally Posted by Fat lordkira

What makes terrakion so much better than the likes of garchomp, keldeo, landorus, lati@s, tornadus-t, dragonite, and more? To be honest, if terrakion goes up so should the preivously mentioned. And I don't believe any of them are S-tier worthy.

Its non-weather dependent and its SD Rock Gem and Choice Band sets are nigh-unhandleable for stall or even most balanced teams unless they are using incredibly niche UU Pokemon purely to counter it (Golurk / Nidoqueen). 108 Speed is still decently fast in BW2 and Fighting / Rock STAB coverage has perfect neutral coverage and excellent super effective coverage. Its one of the best offensive checks to Genesect who is literally everywhere.

[Pocket]

Terrakion is weak to Bullet Punch / Mach Punch, though, and trapped by Dugtrio. Landorus-T and bulky Starmie do a pretty decent job at checking it, and there's always Espeon, Latios, Gengar, Tornadus-T to revenge-kill it without scarfing. I'd say it's solidly A-tier.

[lordkira]

garchomp may not be able to outrun it but its 102 speed is still trollish and fast enogh to put a big enough dent on the opponents' teams. Its SDYache is awesome and the CB is fantastic as well. Many peoplerely on very specific mons (i.e. skarmory and hell even cresselia an UU mon) to attempt at stopping it. However, it's still not S. And I believe that's the case for terrakion as well. It's strong and fast like almost all the top-tier OU mons (ou meta itself is full of these fast and powerful at the moment). And I don't believe it's anything special apart from those other top offensive OU threats to be in S.

[Olijolly]

Originally Posted by Fat Pocket

Terrakion is weak to Bullet Punch / Mach Punch, though, and trapped by Dugtrio. Landorus-T and bulky Starmie do a pretty decent job at checking it, and there's always Espeon, Latios, Gengar, Tornadus-T to revenge-kill it without scarfing. I'd say it's solidly A-tier.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.
It's good but so are many other top quality pokemons in the OU tier.
Terrakion is a great A-tier pokemon but not a S one in my opinion.

I'd also like to say ninetales should be in S.
It's not as good as politoad or tyranitar, hell even abomasnow on its own.
But sun teams are by far the second best weather after rain teams.
And we all know just how effective weather teams are in general and how prominent weather wars are in gen 5. Many sun sweepers and abusers are heavily reliant on the sun, such as venusaur, and heavily dent on other weather abusers. These are all because of ninetales. It's true ninetales is rather a terrible pokemon on its own (and politoad is too in my honest opinion) but it affects the metagame far too much to not be in S.

[tehy]

Originally Posted by Fat PenguinX

Its non-weather dependent and its SD Rock Gem and Choice Band sets are nigh-unhandleable for stall or even most balanced teams unless they are using incredibly niche UU Pokemon purely to counter it (Golurk / Nidoqueen). 108 Speed is still decently fast in BW2 and Fighting / Rock STAB coverage has perfect neutral coverage and excellent super effective coverage. Its one of the best offensive checks to Genesect who is literally everywhere.

SD rock gem? Hippow says hello. Cb is unwallable, but you can predict around it, like a lot of pokemon. Stall has problems with it, but it has problems with plenty of pokemon.However, it's not unhandleable.

[gengarsnemisis]

I think lucario should be moved down to C rank. Its slow and frail, to the point where any neutral hit KO's it, and has no real niche in this metegame at all. It's also quite a pathetic sweeper due to its terrible speed. To pull it off you need a HUGE amount of support, to the point where you have to build a whole team around it just to be successfull.

[IstheCakeReallyaLie]

Garchomp for S rank. It was Uber (and should still be, in my opinion) for a reason. I also find it funny that the 3 S rank ones are the ones that are the "public suspect" (things the people think should get banned.

Kyurem for C. It has great potential, but it needs hail up, and Barack Obamasnow isn't that great of a Pokemon. It also has FMSS badly, considering it would love Sub/Roost/HP Fire/Dragon STAB/Earth Power/Blizzard.

[sora13]

Originally Posted by Fat gengarsnemisis

I think lucario should be moved down to C rank. Its slow and frail, to the point where any neutral hit KO's it, and has no real niche in this metegame at all. It's also quite a pathetic sweeper due to its terrible speed. To pull it off you need a HUGE amount of support, to the point where you have to build a whole team around it just to be successfull.

No real niche in the metagame? First of all, it has one of the best offensive typings, being 4x resistant to SR and darks attacks, which Justified can easily abuse. It's Steel typing allows it to set up on a bunch of attacks, like Ferrothorn Power Whip. Furthermore, Lucario doesn't NEED speed at all. It already has Extremespeed, Bullet Punch and Vacuum Wave, all of which can be boosted by SD/Nasty Plot and after said boost OHKO most scarfers/faster pokes which Terrakion DOESN'T have(don't even mention Quick Attack). Finally, Lucario OHKOes Skarmory after an SD with a non super effective move. If that isn't good enough for the metagame, I don't know what is. It's not great enough to be moved up to A-tier, but by no means is it C-tier.

[LucaroarkZ]

Originally Posted by Fat gengarsnemisis

I think lucario should be moved down to C rank. Its slow and frail, to the point where any neutral hit KO's it, and has no real niche in this metegame at all. It's also quite a pathetic sweeper due to its terrible speed. To pull it off you need a HUGE amount of support, to the point where you have to build a whole team around it just to be successfull.

I used Lucario extensively in BW1 and BW2, and I can easily say that most of the things you are saying in this post are blatantly false. First, Speed actually has little impact on how good Lucario is because of ExtremeSpeed. Second, Lucario actually doesn't require as much support as you say. I have never needed more than to use something with Pursuit (only if you can't beat Gengar without it) and 1 or 2 Pokemon that are weak to Pursuit in order to lure Choice Tyranitar/Scizor. Pursuit support is really optional, Lucario functions just fine without it as long as you can get rid of Gengar. Also, it does have a niche as a Swords Dance user with ExtremeSpeed, which no other OU-viable Swords Dance users get. Did I mention that a +2 ExtremeSpeed gives Techniloom a run for its money? I don't see Terrakion doing that, ever.

[Hemp Man]

Originally Posted by Fat FaceFaceFace

Noone else seeing Tyranitar as B?

I'd like to see what people think of this. On the flip side he has Pursuit, Weather, and Stealth Rock. But he's also destroyed by priority, Dugtrio, and fighting moves have become really common.

[Lady Alex]

@Olijolly- It's already been discussed why Ninetales isn't S tier. We all know how deadly chlorophyll sweepers and sun boosted fire moves are, but Ninetales herself is just mediocre. She's not like politoed in the slightest. Politoed is a very solid defensive pokemon that has great typing and utility in things like Encore, Refresh, and Perish Song. It also easily runs more offensive sets that are equally good.

@gengarsnemesis- Lucario doesn't deserve to be placed that low at all. It's a really solid pokemon, with admittedly subpar speed, but it easily makes up for that with extremespeed. It's faster than most things it wants to close combat anyway. The things that it doesn't outspeed are typically frailer and are going to be ko'd after a +2 extremespeed anyway, especially if they're weakened (which is typically going to be the case, since lucario is a late game sweeper). You're grossly exaggerating the amount of support lucario needs in order to be successful.

@IsTheCakeReallyALie- The fact that Garchomp used to be uber isn't a justification for it being placed in S tier. If you played during the time Garchomp was OU, you would realize that the sole reason Garchomp was banned because of its Sub SD set with Sand Veil

[Anikrahman1995]

Originally Posted by Fat IstheCakeReallyaLie

Garchomp for S rank. It was Uber (and should still be, in my opinion) for a reason. I also find it funny that the 3 S rank ones are the ones that are the "public suspect" (things the people think should get banned.

Kyurem for C. It has great potential, but it needs hail up, and Barack Obamasnow isn't that great of a Pokemon. It also has FMSS badly, considering it would love Sub/Roost/HP Fire/Dragon STAB/Earth Power/Blizzard.

Kyurem should be B. It doesnt have 4MMS. Since you had been living under a rock, let me shed some light into the matter. It doesnt need HP fire anymore(you must have missed the update). It doesnt need hail up<----Kyurem has Ice Beam. This Obamasnow you talk about is actually better than Politoed if you look at them without their abilities. The sub set only needs roost and either Ice Beam+Earth Power or Dragon Pulse+Focus Blast. Go take a look at the analysis. Ice beam is the primary slash and Hail really isnt mandtory.
See these replays:
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou2452599
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou2458104
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou2496177
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou2717893
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou2507846
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou2710616
Kyurem is better than most people think. It weaknesses are why its being placed in B intead of A. Kyurem is better than every pokemon in C while being on par with those in B. It also has the ability to beat rain teams with the greatest of ease.

Edit: @Lavos below
Terrakion should be S-Tier. It is the best independant pokemon(it is not over-reliant on team support). Weakness to priority isnt that bad.......o_o

[Lavos Spawn]

Terrakion for S Tier, it defined the metagame in late BW1 and it's still an absolute force to be reckoned with in BW2. With great sets ranging from a suicide Stealth Rock lead to the old standby CB to Scarf to Rock Polish to SubSD to Salac Berry, this Pokemon has it all; speed, power, and great dual STAB to boot. It's also one of the best checks to Genesect in the tier at the moment, resisting U-Turn and neutral at worst for whatever Genesect cares to throw at it, while it can also set up all over Gene's face. Considering how Gene-centric the metagame is right now, all of the bug's prominent checks/counters ought to be right up there with it. Not putting it in S Tier would be a great injustice, it's still one of the very best Pokemon to ever have graced the OU tier.

[Jimbon]

Yeah, I think Ninetales is fine where it is in A tier. While it obviously does provide instant Sun from just switching in, you also have to weigh in the fact that Ninetales still uses up a teamslot. I really think Ninetales is the worst Pokemon in OU right now. Offensive sets are outclassed by Heatran and other Special attackers in the tier, while defensive sets have trouble holding their own against other weather inducers. It really doesn't pose any threat at all, apart from being able to take random Scalds and such. People are pretty much forced to run bulky Ninetales to make it stay around for longer because the benefits of Sun are much greater than that of any other weather. The different between Ninetales and other weather abusers are that the other weather abusers actually have some use. Hippowdon can be used as a wall on both sides of the spectrum to take hits, while setting up Stealth Rock, being able to phase out stat boosters and is the only weather inducer with access to reliable recovery. Tyranitar is a formidable special wall under Sand and is often used to trap Lati@s and other special attackers. Tyranitar can also perform an offensive role with a Choice Item to take advantage of it's great attack stat. Politoed on the other hand can do both roles, Choice Sets can act as great revenge killers to opposing weather abusers, completely twisting the momentum upon switching in, while Politoed can also viably run a defensive set to wall a lot of attackers on either defense. Ninetales doesn't really fit in here, as there's nothing it does particularly well. It's Stealth Rock weak, has a pretty bad defensive typing and a bad matchup against 3/4 of the other weather inducers, which are the most likely matchups for Ninetales.

This is why I'd also like to propose that Venusaur be moved up to A Rank. There's no doubt it is the most potent of all chlorophyll abusers, and the only thing stopping it from sweeping teams is that 4mss. Venusaur is pretty much the sole reason that weatherless has trouble against Sun, because when Sun is up, Venusaur isn't going to be outsped any time soon while it can also boost it's offensive stats easily. I also find playing against Venusaur is similar to playing against Genesect, in the sense that you really need to scout for all of it's coverage moves. The coverages moves of choice are what set Venusaur aside from other weather abusers, as Venusaur can run viable coverage moves to break through it's checks/counters, while under Sun Growth Venusaur can break through Eviolite Chansey, arguably the best special wall in the game.
Nominating Venusaur for A Rank

[lordkira]

Originally Posted by Fat IstheCakeReallyaLie

Garchomp for S rank. It was Uber (and should still be, in my opinion) for a reason. I also find it funny that the 3 S rank ones are the ones that are the "public suspect" (things the people think should get banned.

Kyurem for C. It has great potential, but it needs hail up, and Barack Obamasnow isn't that great of a Pokemon. It also has FMSS badly, considering it would love Sub/Roost/HP Fire/Dragon STAB/Earth Power/Blizzard.

I didn't think I'd be saying this but I'm goign to agree with garchomp for S, sort of. I personally think no pokemons in the A tier are convincingly S-tier worthy. But I do think garchomp and terrakion are on the fence between S and A. And I do think both their prowesses in the current OU metagame are on par. I wouldn't mind garchomp or terrakion going to either S or just stay in A as long as they are both in the same tier.

[Lady Alex]

Originally Posted by Fat lordkira

I didn't think I'd be saying this but I'm goign to agree with garchomp for S, sort of. I personally think no pokemons in the A tier are convincingly S-tier worthy. But I do think garchomp and terrakion are on the fence between S and A. And I do think both their prowesses in the current OU metagame are on par. I wouldn't mind garchomp or terrakion going to either S or just stay in A as long as they are both in the same tier.

That isn't an explanation as to why they deserve to be S tier. You can't just say "I think X pokemon deserves to be Y tier" without giving a justification. There's no room for discussion otherwise.

[lordkira]

I already said why garchomp is powerful and terrakion's presence in the OU has already been brought up by others. Garchomp is on par with terrakion with its CB and SDYache sets. And if terrakion does indeed somehow get to the S tier, then garchomp should as well. Again, neither are convincingly S by any means to me.