Underrated but effective sets in the BW2 overused metagame - Page 10

**dragonuser** · Oct 22nd, 2012, 9:37:14 PM

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Muscle Band / Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 180 Spd / 252 Atk / 76 HP
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance

An extremely underrated set atm. With his respectable bulk, and high attack stat Landorus-T can make a very threatening sweeper. Many people are using his bulky SR set atm, but this imo is the best Landorus-T set there is. He can setup on a large amount of Pokemon, and can boost whatever stat is needed. Getting +2 speed is usually gg to offense, while +2 Attack can hit very hard (for stall). If this guy manages to get +2 in both stats, very few things can take an attack/end his sweep. The EV's let him outpace Scarf Latios and everything slower at +2, while letting him hit as hard as possible. The rest of the EV's are placed in bulk, to help him setup easier. Also did I mention Intimidate? Makes setting this guy up so much easier.

alexwolf · Oct 22nd, 2012, 9:46:29 PM

dragonuser if you are using Lando-T as a sweeper, and not as a tank, why give it lefties? I get that you don't want Life Orb which kills Lando-T's excellent physical bulk, but what about Soft Sand and Muscle Band? Not only they provide a significant power boost (especially Soft Sand, 20%), but they allow you to bluff a choice set very nicely, as long as you don't use any boosting move.

**dragonuser** · Oct 22nd, 2012, 9:49:31 PM

EDIT: Am just slashing in leftovers as secondary slash. People have made good arguments for both sides

Lavos Spawn · Oct 22nd, 2012, 9:55:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat dragonuser

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Muscle Band
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 180 Spd / 252 Atk / 76 HP
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance

that looks strong as hell and I can see some very easy late-game sweeps going down as a result of this monster, looks like it also rips through stall just like every other BW2 'mon out there

Gimmick · Oct 22nd, 2012, 9:59:18 PM

Agreeing with alexwolf here. Except, I'd definitely go with the Soft Sand choice, as it guarantees an OHKO on 4 HP Breloom:

252Atk Soft Sand +2 Landorus Therian (+Atk) Earthquake vs 4HP/0Def Breloom (Neutral): 106% - 125% (280 - 330 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

As opposed to Muscle Band:

252Atk Muscle Band +2 Landorus Therian (+Atk) Earthquake vs 4HP/0Def Breloom (Neutral): 98% - 115% (257 - 303 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 89% chance to OHKO.

Some Breloom nowadays are also running a bit of bulk, especially the Fight Gem ones with Adamant. I'm still calcing to find out if Muscle Band scores any KOs with Stone Edge. I found one so far: Dragonite. This is Soft Sand:

252Atk Soft Sand +2 Landorus Therian (+Atk) Stone Edge vs 0HP/4Def Multiscale Dragonite (Neutral): 83% - 98% (270 - 318 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

As opposed to Muscle Band:

252Atk Muscle Band +2 Landorus Therian (+Atk) Stone Edge vs 0HP/4Def Multiscale Dragonite (Neutral): 91% - 107% (296 - 348 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 48% chance to OHKO.

I'd assume one would pair a double dance Landorus-T with Rocks, though.

ssbbm · Oct 22nd, 2012, 10:30:04 PM

ew dragonuser now everybody knows about it

actually, i'd recommend using leftovers on that landorus-t; it works to check terrakion better and the lefties is useful because you will probably be hit by random shit like power whip, gyro ball, and leech seed.

this is actually *really* important, because if you dont run lefties you can't set up on ferro nearly as well since it can stall at least 25% out of you (also, lefties helps against sr which is always nice)

rock slide is also kind of interesting to look at simply because stone edge misses wayyy too much, and i don't think you lose any notable koes

also yes: rocks are very important because you do ~85% to genesect (clean ohko after 2 SRs), you ohko latias after sr at +2 i think (i'm not sure about without it) and you ohko some ferro with +2 eq after rocks also same with kyurem-b

BlankZero · Oct 23rd, 2012, 1:20:53 AM

I have a modded version of that Lando with Stone Edge>Gravity.

Soft Sand EQ on ERYTHANG

cmurph · Oct 23rd, 2012, 10:37:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat dragonuser

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Muscle Band / Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 180 Spd / 252 Atk / 76 HP
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance

An extremely underrated set atm. With his respectable bulk, and high attack stat Landorus-T can make a very threatening sweeper. Many people are using his bulky SR set atm, but this imo is the best Landorus-T set there is. He can setup on a large amount of Pokemon, and can boost whatever stat is needed. Getting +2 speed is usually gg to offense, while +2 Attack can hit very hard (for stall). If this guy manages to get +2 in both stats, very few things can take an attack/end his sweep. The EV's let him outpace Scarf Latios and everything slower at +2, while letting him hit as hard as possible. The rest of the EV's are placed in bulk, to help him setup easier. Also did I mention Intimidate? Makes setting this guy up so much easier.

I used this same set to good effect. I liked using life orb as the item, though. More often than not I found that I was using rock polish instead of swords dance and I rarely had the chance to use both. Without that +2 from swords dance I was definitely grateful for the extra power provided by life orb.

ThunderBlunder · Oct 24th, 2012, 7:26:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat dragonuser

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Muscle Band / Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 180 Spd / 252 Atk / 76 HP
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance

An extremely underrated set atm. With his respectable bulk, and high attack stat Landorus-T can make a very threatening sweeper. Many people are using his bulky SR set atm, but this imo is the best Landorus-T set there is. He can setup on a large amount of Pokemon, and can boost whatever stat is needed. Getting +2 speed is usually gg to offense, while +2 Attack can hit very hard (for stall). If this guy manages to get +2 in both stats, very few things can take an attack/end his sweep. The EV's let him outpace Scarf Latios and everything slower at +2, while letting him hit as hard as possible. The rest of the EV's are placed in bulk, to help him setup easier. Also did I mention Intimidate? Makes setting this guy up so much easier.

I've actually made a team around this guy, but I always find it to hard to sweep or that something always gets in the way of it. Do you know any good teammates for this set?

BlankZero · Oct 24th, 2012, 7:40:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat ThunderBlunder

I've actually made a team around this guy, but I always find it to hard to sweep or that something always gets in the way of it. Do you know any good teammates for this set?

Hazard Setters.

Cleric Blissey if you get away from a bad matchup.

But mostly Hazards everywhere. Try switching in on something you know is going for EQ or similar, then hit a RP/SD depending on the targets (frail hitters need speed, bulkier pokes need SD) and proceed to destroy shit.

HabibsHotDogs · Oct 24th, 2012, 8:34:19 AM

Lead Dragonite:

Dragonite @ Life Orb
Trait: Multiscale
252+Atk/252Spd/4Def
Nature: Naughty (+Atk, -SpDef)
-Outrage
-Fire Punch
-ExtremeSpeed
-Earthquake/Dragon Dance

A very simple set that is working wonders in this meta. It's main issue is that once the opponent sees it a few times, they tend to expect it :(

Life Orb because this is a lead designed to do as much damage as possible.
Nature to evade a 1hko from Genesect before you KO back (encourages U turn)
Outrage is a hole puncher, if it doesn't ko the poke.. chances are it 2hkoes the poke and Dragonite is faster..
ExtremeSpeed is essential to do that extra bit of damage before you fall
Earthquake to destroy Jirachi and Heatran.. otherwise Dragon dance is good for those moments where you don't see a genesect in team preview or expect to be able to sweep with Dragonite.

Most common scenario: immediately opens up 1 hole in the team and if you're lucky, get a handy extreme speed on the next poke for some softening up.

Why its good: There is no opportunity cost loss if the other team has a gene sect.. the otherwise better set of dragon dance lum berry is only so good with scarf genesect literally everywhere... And these days if they don't have that genesect.. they have a scarf terrakion or landorus etc. Makes a decent genesect lure as well, try it :)

Perhaps its biggest selling factor is that theres no "i'll fodder this red pokemon & then revenge it" because it's a lead... (a lot of the time) so they have to fodder a 100% healthy pokemon often.. or even lose 2 pokemon due to not expecting this set.

Also works as a non lead... it's not like life orb suddenly makes dragonite bad.. lol

~~bubbly~~ · Oct 24th, 2012, 8:38:33 AM

If you're going to use Dragonite in this meta, run a bulky set. SpDef Rain Abuse works fine, I also like the Modest + TWave Tank set. One of the best checks for Rain offense which still functions well against every team style.

Shurtugal · Oct 24th, 2012, 9:10:13 AM

Calm Mind Lando gets no comments? Boo! Seriously, the thing is amazing. You know it can live a lot of random HP Ice's and Ice Beams from weaker Pokemon. Here are some random calcs from PO:

Hits it Lives

Code:

0 SpAtk Blissey Ice Beam vs 0 HP/0 +1 SpDef Landorus: 55.17% - 65.2%
0 SpAtk Celebi Hidden Power Ice vs 0 HP/0 +1 SpDef Landorus: 51.41% - 61.44%
240 SpAtk Celebi Leaf Storm vs 0 HP/0 +1 SpDef Landorus: 47.96% - 56.43%
252 SpAtk Heatran Fire Blast vs 0 HP/0 +1 SpDef Landorus: 49.84% - 58.62%
252 SpAtk Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs 0 HP/0 +1 SpDef Landorus: 43.26% - 51.1%
252 SpAtk Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs 0 HP/0 +1 SpDef Landorus: 84.64% - 100.63% 
252 SpAtk Rotom-W Hydro Pump in Rain vs 0 HP/0 +1 SpDef Landorus: 126.96% - 149.53%
252 SpAtk Life Orb Starmie Ice Beam vs 0 HP/0 +1 SpDef Landorus: 114.11% - 134.17% (surprisingly without LO doesn't often KO without SR)
252 SpAtk Alakazam Psychic vs 0 HP/0 +1 SpDef Landorus: 37.93% - 45.14%
0 SpAtk Jellicent Scald in Rain vs 0 HP/0 +1 SpDef Landorus: 57.37% - 67.71%
0 SpAtk Jellicent Scald vs 0 HP/0 +1 SpDef Landorus: 38.56% - 46.08%
0 SpAtk Gastrodon Scald vs 0 HP/0 +1 SpDef Landorus: 41.38% - 48.9%
252 SpAtk Espeon Psychic vs 0 HP/0 +1 SpDef Landorus: 36.99% - 44.2%
72 SpAtk Forretress Hidden Power Ice vs 0 HP/0 +1 SpDef Landorus: 37.62% - 45.14%

Damage Output

Code:

252 +1 SpAtk Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Blissey (+SpDef) : 49.58% - 58.54%
252 +1 SpAtk Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Gastrodon (+SpDef) : 65.49% - 77%
252 +1 SpAtk Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Scizor (+SpDef) : 109.01% - 128.49%
252 +1 SpAtk Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Eviolite Chansey: 55.4% - 65.34%
252 +1 SpAtk Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs 0 HP/252 SpDef Eviolite Chansey: 48.36% - 57.1%
252 +1 SpAtk Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Eviolite Chansey (+SpDef) : 40.34% - 47.44%
252 +1 SpAtk Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Ferrothorn (+SpDef) : 63.35% - 74.43%
252 +1 SpAtk Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Ferrothorn (+SpDef) : 111.93% - 131.82%
252 +1 SpAtk Life Orb Landorus Hidden Power Ice vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Latias (+SpDef) : 45.05% - 53.3%
252 +1 SpAtk Life Orb Landorus Hidden Power Ice vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Latios: 84.39% - 99%
252 +1 SpAtk Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Politoed (+SpDef) : 64.06% - 75.26%
252 +1 SpAtk Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Politoed: 89.06% - 104.95%
252 +1 SpAtk Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Amoonguss (+SpDef) : 65.97% - 77.31%
252 +1 SpAtk Life Orb Landorus Hidden Power Ice vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Tornadus-T: 82.87% - 97.24% (if you ever face a bulky Tornadus-T for whatever reason)
252 +1 SpAtk Life Orb Landorus Hidden Power Ice vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Celebi (+SpDef) : 49.01% - 57.92%

Deserves more usage, seriously. I had negative response when I first heard about it too, but PO staff corrected me and I'm glad they did. CM Sheer Force is pretty powerful.

Aquasition · Oct 24th, 2012, 10:02:39 AM

I have a physical Tornadus set that both forms of Tornadus can use well:

Tornadus w/ Flying Gem
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Atk /252 Spe
Moves:
-Superpower
-Acrobatics
-U-Turn
-Taunt

This set is mean't as a leading Physical Attacker/Scout(Need a dispenser Here!). Tornadus's Prankster/ 121 speed will usually allow it to taunt first, shutting down set-up/ Hazard leads Like Deoxys-D. Flying Gem acrobatics from Therian Tornadus can kill Scarf Genesect, as well as non-Physically bulky Politoed in 1 hit, while being bulky enough to survive a +0 thunderbolt, which will most likely happen if Genesect switches in to Tornadus due to superior SpD. Superpower is there to kill T-Tar, and seriously hurt Ferrothorn. U-turn allows Tornadus to take advantage of regenerator, as well as hurt Psychics and things that Acrobatics is not very effective against, like Jirachi, As well as help with Volt-turning.

Now, Whether to use Tornadus-I or Tornadus-T Depends on whether you like Prankster and higher Physical attack, or Regenerator, Speed, and Slightly higher Defenses.

~~bubbly~~ · Oct 24th, 2012, 11:33:37 AM

When I tried CM Lando I always found it handy to invest in some bulk, because there are a lot of supereffective hits which narrowly OHKO or 2HKO the offensive version. Genesect's Ice Beam and Rotom-W's Hydro Pump are both good benchmarks to survive. Also, by dropping Spe EV's you don't miss out on much except the speed tie with other Landorus and Thund-T, since very few of the base 100's commonly use max speed now.

**dragonuser** · Oct 24th, 2012, 4:34:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat cmurph

I used this same set to good effect. I liked using life orb as the item, though. More often than not I found that I was using rock polish instead of swords dance and I rarely had the chance to use both. Without that +2 from swords dance I was definitely grateful for the extra power provided by life orb.

It is generally best to boost whatever stat you need to, it is sort of like the Double Dance Haxorus set of BW1. SD for stall/slower teams and RP for faster teams. LO is an option as well, but I prefer to give him more longevity/survivability.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat ThunderBlunder

I've actually made a team around this guy, but I always find it to hard to sweep or that something always gets in the way of it. Do you know any good teammates for this set?

I have seen him perform well on offensive sand teams, as well as defensive rain teams. Politoed/Jirachi/Latias is an example of a good core to support this set.

BlankZero · Oct 24th, 2012, 8:42:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat bubbly

When I tried CM Lando I always found it handy to invest in some bulk, because there are a lot of supereffective hits which narrowly OHKO or 2HKO the offensive version. Genesect's Ice Beam and Rotom-W's Hydro Pump are both good benchmarks to survive. Also, by dropping Spe EV's you don't miss out on much except the speed tie with other Landorus and Thund-T, since very few of the base 100's commonly use max speed now.

Max SpA+ Gene's Ice Beam will do 94-100% on a 252/252 Landorus (65% ohko), while Earth Power coming from the same Landorus (0 SpA, since it's all invested in HP/SpD) will only hit back for 67-80%, so I'm not sure what benchmark you're looking for. x4 is x4. If you got the CM off once, it drops it to 62-74% from the IB, which is good, but it's not a great idea to max out that bulk to survive it, especially with your Physical side being just based on your HP, not to mention that even +2 Lando with 252 SpA can't land the OHKO back on Gene with Earth Power.

What kind of EV spread did you use? I'd love to test it out myself.

Gary2346 · Oct 24th, 2012, 11:19:45 PM

I apologize if this set was posted earlier, but if not, I just want to remind you guys of this forgotten monster:

Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 12 HP / 244 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Seed Bomb
- Spore

Ever since Technician came out, I hardly ever see this set ever being used anymore, and I honestly I don't know why. Although priority Mach Punch is a great weapon against a lot of the OU meta game, none of his sets match the power of this sets Focus Punch. Once a Sub is up, it's a 6-5 match up because something is going to be put to sleep. Now, something has to switch into a Focus Punch, or sack the sleeper. With this strategy, Breloom guarantees 2 Focus Punches on whatever has come into counter or check it, making some surprising 2HKOs. Seed Bomb is for Jellicent, Gastrodon, and Keldeo.

Although Breloom loses out on revenge killing, he acts more as an insane wall breaker that can tear teams apart. The only efficient Pokemon that can counter Breloom, are Latias, Latios, Gengar, and Reuniclus. However, even the Psychic types still don't like taking a Focus Punch, and risk getting Spored anyway.

Anyways, I use this on my team, and I have found that it is much more effective in this meta game than some think, and if given the opportunity to set up a Substitute and with the proper team support, this thing can be a game changer. Very underrated, very dangerous, very effective.

Electrolyte · Oct 24th, 2012, 11:36:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Gary2346

I apologize if this set was posted earlier, but if not, I just want to remind you guys of this forgotten monster:

Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 12 HP / 244 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Seed Bomb
- Spore

Ever since Technician came out, I hardly ever see this set ever being used anymore, and I honestly I don't know why. Although priority Mach Punch is a great weapon against a lot of the OU meta game, none of his sets match the power of this sets Focus Punch. Once a Sub is up, it's a 6-5 match up because something is going to be put to sleep. Now, something has to switch into a Focus Punch, or sack the sleeper. With this strategy, Breloom guarantees 2 Focus Punches on whatever has come into counter or check it, making some surprising 2HKOs. Seed Bomb is for Jellicent, Gastrodon, and Keldeo.

Although Breloom loses out on revenge killing, he acts more as an insane wall breaker that can tear teams apart. The only efficient Pokemon that can counter Breloom, are Latias, Latios, Gengar, and Reuniclus. However, even the Psychic types still don't like taking a Focus Punch, and risk getting Spored anyway.

Anyways, I use this on my team, and I have found that it is much more effective in this meta game than some think, and if given the opportunity to set up a Substitute and with the proper team support, this thing can be a game changer. Very underrated, very dangerous, very effective.

Yeah, this thing is annoying, but it is pretty easily handled. The problem with this set is that it does not cover any other threats to the most common setvin OU- TechniLoom. Lati@s and Flying types still utterly wall this Breloom- and the way you counter it is pretty much the same. Because most teams carry a counter to Techniloom, they carry a counter to this set as well- and because Techniloom is 'faster' and more powerful, there are very few perks to using this instead of Techniloom. Just like for Techni, you first switch in a slower wall to take the sleep, and then switch to a faster sweeper with a good typing like Latios. They sub the turn you switch in, you break the sub as you tank the resisted hit, and then you go for the OHKO.

Gary2346 · Oct 25th, 2012, 3:22:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Electrolyte

Yeah, this thing is annoying, but it is pretty easily handled. The problem with this set is that it does not cover any other threats to the most common setvin OU- TechniLoom. Lati@s and Flying types still utterly wall this Breloom- and the way you counter it is pretty much the same. Because most teams carry a counter to Techniloom, they carry a counter to this set as well- and because Techniloom is 'faster' and more powerful, there are very few perks to using this instead of Techniloom. Just like for Techni, you first switch in a slower wall to take the sleep, and then switch to a faster sweeper with a good typing like Latios. They sub the turn you switch in, you break the sub as you tank the resisted hit, and then you go for the OHKO.

Yes I totally agree with the lack of versatility this thing has over the Techniloom, however this Breloom has a much different role then the Techniloom. He is more of a crippling wall breaker than a sweeping revenge killer, and is best used late game when Latias, Latios, and Gengar are taken care of. Yes, using this set at the beginning of a match is pointless, but with the right timing, it can be devastating. Although it loses it's priority, it gains in its firepower and wall breaking abilities.

Also, it's pretty unpredictable. Since most expect the Techniloom set, they may switch out fearing to be revenged killed, but instead I reveal to them that the opposite by going for a Substitute, Spore, then preceding to Focus Punch. You can have your opinions, but I have found great success using this. It all depends once again, on your team. If your team lacks a revenge killer, Techniloom is your choice. If your team doesn't lack a revenge killer, but lacks a wallbreaker, SubFocus Breloom is a better choice due to it's ability to dodge crippling moves, and lasts longer.

DarkBlazeR · Oct 25th, 2012, 4:42:08 PM

Latias @ Leftovers
Trait: Levtitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Psychic / Dragon Pulse
- Thunder Wave
- Reflect / Roar
- Recover

Surprised no one runs support Latias... it is so unbelievably good in this metagame. Takes all kinds of weather-boosted attacks, plus Ground and Fighting moves, paralyses everything in sight (Genesect gets utterly fucked on the switch-in), whilst providing support in Reflect or phazing. Obviously fills quite a specific niche for a team but give it a go - it won't disappoint. I run it on my Hail team and I couldn't have asked for a better defensive pivot.

BlankZero · Oct 26th, 2012, 5:36:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat DarkBlazeR

Latias @ Leftovers
Trait: Levtitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Psychic / Dragon Pulse
- Thunder Wave
- Reflect / Roar
- Recover

Surprised no one runs support Latias... it is so unbelievably good in this metagame. Takes all kinds of weather-boosted attacks, plus Ground and Fighting moves, paralyses everything in sight (Genesect gets utterly fucked on the switch-in), whilst providing support in Reflect or phazing. Obviously fills quite a specific niche for a team but give it a go - it won't disappoint. I run it on my Hail team and I couldn't have asked for a better defensive pivot.

Looks like fun! Although, if I could ask, why so much Speed on a Support mon? Why not more bulk? Roar has a negative priority anyhow if I remember correctly, and your speed won't matter there. It does seem like a good Genesect counter though, as you're pretty walled by it and it could blow you away pretty fast, but TWave it and it's crippled for the rest of the match, I like.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So I jumped in to see a match in OU, and found a fun little set the guy was running on his Rotom-W. Managed a 5-0 before the other guy Forfeit.

I asked the guy about his set, he said it was self made, and gave me the spread on it. I'll post it here for you all.

Rotom-W @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpAtk / 8 SpDef
Modest Nature
-Thunderbolt
-Hydro Pump
-Substitute
-Pain Split

While the match wasn't some kind of ridiculous comeback or anything, or even something spectacular to watch, it was still a very interesting and powerful set.

Full Log of the match:

...

Shurtugal · Oct 26th, 2012, 5:52:58 PM

Hm? That Rotom-W looks quite offensive, however, are the 8SDef evs really useful? I prefer giving Genesect the +1SAtk boost so it's U-turn doesn't hurt as much, in which case the 8 EVs would go into defense. Also, just a preference, I like timid / 224 spe to outpace adamant Gliscor (since they substitute spam you) but that set hits harder and I hope you have success with it! O;

DarkBlazeR · Oct 26th, 2012, 5:55:19 PM

It was no wonder that thing swept that guy's team, as he had no Water resists (plus his team seemed mediocre anyway).

That set does look interesting though. I'm not really sure why it needs Substitute though; I think you'll be better off with a Hidden Power of your choice as a coverage move to beat Rotom-W's usual counters. I'd also probably run more Speed (at least 144 EVs to get a Speed stat of 244), but that's just me.

I run max Speed on Latias as to outspeed Terrakion so I can hit it with Psychic/set up Reflect on it before it hits me. Speed is perhaps one of Latias' biggest advantages over other bulky 'mons.

BlankZero · Oct 27th, 2012, 12:44:33 AM

You could go either way for the Genesect boost. I just thought it was quite a cool set overall. I think he could have used Thunder since it is a rain team, and substitute is great, though HP Fire for Grass types that resist both STABs, or even HP Grass for the rare Storm Drain Gastrodon.

It's not perfect, but it is surprising an underrated, which is what this thread is about right?

One of the cooler parts I thought was subsplit working better and better as the match progressed, nearly destroying reuniclus outright.

Oct 22nd, 2012, 9:37:14 PM	#226
dragonuser If our love is tragedy, why are you my remedy? Moderator Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 1,274 Mentor	Landorus-Therian (M) @ Muscle Band / Leftovers Trait: Intimidate EVs: 180 Spd / 252 Atk / 76 HP Adamant Nature - Rock Polish - Stone Edge - Earthquake - Swords Dance An extremely underrated set atm. With his respectable bulk, and high attack stat Landorus-T can make a very threatening sweeper. Many people are using his bulky SR set atm, but this imo is the best Landorus-T set there is. He can setup on a large amount of Pokemon, and can boost whatever stat is needed. Getting +2 speed is usually gg to offense, while +2 Attack can hit very hard (for stall). If this guy manages to get +2 in both stats, very few things can take an attack/end his sweep. The EV's let him outpace Scarf Latios and everything slower at +2, while letting him hit as hard as possible. The rest of the EV's are placed in bulk, to help him setup easier. Also did I mention Intimidate? Makes setting this guy up so much easier. Last edited by dragonuser; Oct 22nd, 2012 at 10:36:13 PM.

Oct 22nd, 2012, 9:46:29 PM	#227
alexwolf King of Conquerors Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,613 Greece	dragonuser if you are using Lando-T as a sweeper, and not as a tank, why give it lefties? I get that you don't want Life Orb which kills Lando-T's excellent physical bulk, but what about Soft Sand and Muscle Band? Not only they provide a significant power boost (especially Soft Sand, 20%), but they allow you to bluff a choice set very nicely, as long as you don't use any boosting move. __________________ Part of the OU QC team, message me for a check!

Oct 22nd, 2012, 9:49:31 PM	#228
dragonuser If our love is tragedy, why are you my remedy? Moderator Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 1,274 Mentor	EDIT: Am just slashing in leftovers as secondary slash. People have made good arguments for both sides Last edited by dragonuser; Oct 22nd, 2012 at 10:37:05 PM.

Oct 22nd, 2012, 9:59:18 PM	#230
Gimmick COME FORTH Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 160 SoCal	Agreeing with alexwolf here. Except, I'd definitely go with the Soft Sand choice, as it guarantees an OHKO on 4 HP Breloom: 252Atk Soft Sand +2 Landorus Therian* (+Atk) Earthquake vs 4HP/0Def Breloom (Neutral): 106% - 125% (280 - 330 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.* As opposed to Muscle Band: 252Atk Muscle Band +2 Landorus Therian* (+Atk) Earthquake vs 4HP/0Def Breloom (Neutral): 98% - 115% (257 - 303 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 89% chance to OHKO.* Some Breloom nowadays are also running a bit of bulk, especially the Fight Gem ones with Adamant. I'm still calcing to find out if Muscle Band scores any KOs with Stone Edge. I found one so far: Dragonite. This is Soft Sand: 252Atk Soft Sand +2 Landorus Therian* (+Atk) Stone Edge vs 0HP/4Def Multiscale Dragonite (Neutral): 83% - 98% (270 - 318 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.* As opposed to Muscle Band: 252Atk Muscle Band +2 Landorus Therian* (+Atk) Stone Edge vs 0HP/4Def Multiscale Dragonite (Neutral): 91% - 107% (296 - 348 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 48% chance to OHKO.* I'd assume one would pair a double dance Landorus-T with Rocks, though. __________________ [4:30:38 PM] Jimbon: i played gx duel academy so you could say i am obelisk blue master rank itachi master 1337 naruto king lv 45 elemental hero duece warrior

Oct 22nd, 2012, 10:30:04 PM	#231
ssbbm Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 999 Where you can play Pokemon with Singing Narwhals and Dancing Clouds	ew dragonuser now everybody knows about it actually, i'd recommend using leftovers on that landorus-t; it works to check terrakion better and the lefties is useful because you will probably be hit by random shit like power whip, gyro ball, and leech seed. this is actually really important, because if you dont run lefties you can't set up on ferro nearly as well since it can stall at least 25% out of you (also, lefties helps against sr which is always nice) rock slide is also kind of interesting to look at simply because stone edge misses wayyy too much, and i don't think you lose any notable koes also yes: rocks are very important because you do ~85% to genesect (clean ohko after 2 SRs), you ohko latias after sr at +2 i think (i'm not sure about without it) and you ohko some ferro with +2 eq after rocks also same with kyurem-b Last edited by ssbbm; Oct 22nd, 2012 at 11:03:47 PM.

Oct 23rd, 2012, 1:20:53 AM	#232
BlankZero Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 547 East Coast, USA	I have a modded version of that Lando with Stone Edge>Gravity. Soft Sand EQ on ERYTHANG

Oct 24th, 2012, 8:34:19 AM	#236
HabibsHotDogs Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 232	Lead Dragonite: Dragonite @ Life Orb Trait: Multiscale 252+Atk/252Spd/4Def Nature: Naughty (+Atk, -SpDef) -Outrage -Fire Punch -ExtremeSpeed -Earthquake/Dragon Dance A very simple set that is working wonders in this meta. It's main issue is that once the opponent sees it a few times, they tend to expect it :( Life Orb because this is a lead designed to do as much damage as possible. Nature to evade a 1hko from Genesect before you KO back (encourages U turn) Outrage is a hole puncher, if it doesn't ko the poke.. chances are it 2hkoes the poke and Dragonite is faster.. ExtremeSpeed is essential to do that extra bit of damage before you fall Earthquake to destroy Jirachi and Heatran.. otherwise Dragon dance is good for those moments where you don't see a genesect in team preview or expect to be able to sweep with Dragonite. Most common scenario: immediately opens up 1 hole in the team and if you're lucky, get a handy extreme speed on the next poke for some softening up. Why its good: There is no opportunity cost loss if the other team has a gene sect.. the otherwise better set of dragon dance lum berry is only so good with scarf genesect literally everywhere... And these days if they don't have that genesect.. they have a scarf terrakion or landorus etc. Makes a decent genesect lure as well, try it :) Perhaps its biggest selling factor is that theres no "i'll fodder this red pokemon & then revenge it" because it's a lead... (a lot of the time) so they have to fodder a 100% healthy pokemon often.. or even lose 2 pokemon due to not expecting this set. Also works as a non lead... it's not like life orb suddenly makes dragonite bad.. lol

Oct 24th, 2012, 8:38:33 AM	#237
~~bubbly~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 884 Australia	If you're going to use Dragonite in this meta, run a bulky set. SpDef Rain Abuse works fine, I also like the Modest + TWave Tank set. One of the best checks for Rain offense which still functions well against every team style.

Oct 24th, 2012, 10:02:39 AM	#239
Aquasition Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 60 Scarborough, ON, CA	I have a physical Tornadus set that both forms of Tornadus can use well: Tornadus w/ Flying Gem Nature: Jolly EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Atk /252 Spe Moves: -Superpower -Acrobatics -U-Turn -Taunt This set is mean't as a leading Physical Attacker/Scout(Need a dispenser Here!). Tornadus's Prankster/ 121 speed will usually allow it to taunt first, shutting down set-up/ Hazard leads Like Deoxys-D. Flying Gem acrobatics from Therian Tornadus can kill Scarf Genesect, as well as non-Physically bulky Politoed in 1 hit, while being bulky enough to survive a +0 thunderbolt, which will most likely happen if Genesect switches in to Tornadus due to superior SpD. Superpower is there to kill T-Tar, and seriously hurt Ferrothorn. U-turn allows Tornadus to take advantage of regenerator, as well as hurt Psychics and things that Acrobatics is not very effective against, like Jirachi, As well as help with Volt-turning. Now, Whether to use Tornadus-I or Tornadus-T Depends on whether you like Prankster and higher Physical attack, or Regenerator, Speed, and Slightly higher Defenses. __________________ Hello, We wood like to visit for a midnight znack. How does ice cream and brains zound? Sincerely, The Zombies

Oct 24th, 2012, 11:33:37 AM	#240
~~bubbly~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 884 Australia	When I tried CM Lando I always found it handy to invest in some bulk, because there are a lot of supereffective hits which narrowly OHKO or 2HKO the offensive version. Genesect's Ice Beam and Rotom-W's Hydro Pump are both good benchmarks to survive. Also, by dropping Spe EV's you don't miss out on much except the speed tie with other Landorus and Thund-T, since very few of the base 100's commonly use max speed now.

Oct 24th, 2012, 11:19:45 PM	#243
Gary2346 Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 413 Hooters	I apologize if this set was posted earlier, but if not, I just want to remind you guys of this forgotten monster: Breloom @ Toxic Orb Trait: Poison Heal EVs: 12 HP / 244 Atk / 252 Spd Adamant Nature - Substitute - Focus Punch - Seed Bomb - Spore Ever since Technician came out, I hardly ever see this set ever being used anymore, and I honestly I don't know why. Although priority Mach Punch is a great weapon against a lot of the OU meta game, none of his sets match the power of this sets Focus Punch. Once a Sub is up, it's a 6-5 match up because something is going to be put to sleep. Now, something has to switch into a Focus Punch, or sack the sleeper. With this strategy, Breloom guarantees 2 Focus Punches on whatever has come into counter or check it, making some surprising 2HKOs. Seed Bomb is for Jellicent, Gastrodon, and Keldeo. Although Breloom loses out on revenge killing, he acts more as an insane wall breaker that can tear teams apart. The only efficient Pokemon that can counter Breloom, are Latias, Latios, Gengar, and Reuniclus. However, even the Psychic types still don't like taking a Focus Punch, and risk getting Spored anyway. Anyways, I use this on my team, and I have found that it is much more effective in this meta game than some think, and if given the opportunity to set up a Substitute and with the proper team support, this thing can be a game changer. Very underrated, very dangerous, very effective. Last edited by Gary2346; Oct 24th, 2012 at 11:31:26 PM.

Oct 25th, 2012, 4:42:08 PM	#246
DarkBlazeR Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 346	Latias @ Leftovers Trait: Levtitate EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd Timid Nature - Psychic / Dragon Pulse - Thunder Wave - Reflect / Roar - Recover Surprised no one runs support Latias... it is so unbelievably good in this metagame. Takes all kinds of weather-boosted attacks, plus Ground and Fighting moves, paralyses everything in sight (Genesect gets utterly fucked on the switch-in), whilst providing support in Reflect or phazing. Obviously fills quite a specific niche for a team but give it a go - it won't disappoint. I run it on my Hail team and I couldn't have asked for a better defensive pivot.

Oct 26th, 2012, 5:52:58 PM	#248
Shurtugal Teach love to all the little birds! Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 819 Florida	Hm? That Rotom-W looks quite offensive, however, are the 8SDef evs really useful? I prefer giving Genesect the +1SAtk boost so it's U-turn doesn't hurt as much, in which case the 8 EVs would go into defense. Also, just a preference, I like timid / 224 spe to outpace adamant Gliscor (since they substitute spam you) but that set hits harder and I hope you have success with it! O; __________________ If you want your team rated; feel free to PM or VM me for your own, personalized rate! If you want to learn how to battle and win; check out my guide! Feel free to check out my team in OU that peaked #1!

Oct 26th, 2012, 5:55:19 PM	#249
DarkBlazeR Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 346	It was no wonder that thing swept that guy's team, as he had no Water resists (plus his team seemed mediocre anyway). That set does look interesting though. I'm not really sure why it needs Substitute though; I think you'll be better off with a Hidden Power of your choice as a coverage move to beat Rotom-W's usual counters. I'd also probably run more Speed (at least 144 EVs to get a Speed stat of 244), but that's just me. I run max Speed on Latias as to outspeed Terrakion so I can hit it with Psychic/set up Reflect on it before it hits me. Speed is perhaps one of Latias' biggest advantages over other bulky 'mons.

Oct 27th, 2012, 12:44:33 AM	#250
BlankZero Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 547 East Coast, USA	You could go either way for the Genesect boost. I just thought it was quite a cool set overall. I think he could have used Thunder since it is a rain team, and substitute is great, though HP Fire for Grass types that resist both STABs, or even HP Grass for the rare Storm Drain Gastrodon. It's not perfect, but it is surprising an underrated, which is what this thread is about right? One of the cooler parts I thought was subsplit working better and better as the match progressed, nearly destroying reuniclus outright.