Little Cup Viability Rankings

[Delver]

Good luck brought up a bunch of stuff I wanted to touch on:

Originally Posted by Fat Good_Luck!;4443427
[b

Foongus is B[/b], not A. I have had more success with Bulbasaur than Foongus as Bulba has more SpA to damage Drilbur, higher Def and higher SpD. I think Foongus is just good on paper but it's not game changing even if its typing is good over Ferroseed and Lileep.

I agree with you in that foongus is more of a B rank than an A rank, but I'd like to clarify somethings, specifically that bulasaurs "higher defense" does not manifest itself in a higher stat, but rather less EV's past the initial investment. I bolded that because what i means is that unless you're making a dedicated defensive set, the higher defense is negligable. Ironically, a dedicated defensive set (ie Subseed, double powder etc) is out classed by Foongus (who, despite his terrible speed and lower SpD has access to both Spore and Regenerator which makes him more reliable as a status inducer and more resilient as a wall) and cottonee (who i think could make a really good sand check cause of prankster stun spore). So I think Foongus can chill in B but bulbasaur should definetly be pushed to C. it's most viable set is its Scarf set on the site. It's just out classed by other mons in mostly everything else. It has access to Swords Dance, but so does Totodile who has an arguably better Stab and an Amazing ability in the form of Sheer force as well as priority. It has growth to make mixed sweeping in sun a possibility (thanks to Chlorophyll) but Sunny Day teams themselves require a lot of team support and again the sets out classed by Bellsprout who has a *MUCH* higher physical attack and its lower speed is nulled because it'll still outspeed the world in sun. TBH even it's scarf set is beat out by Snover, but it does have access to Sleep powder which is a big deal, and a fast sleep can swing games. Being one of the few fast sleepers is enough for a C teir's "notable niche, lots of support".

Edit: I forgot Sheer Force Totodile is illegal, so the ability argument is null. Plus Dile is better at DDing iirc. SD bulba is still out classed though, cause Bellsprout shares bulbasaur's typing and has a much higher attack. like 2-3 points higher depending on nature. Also on the whole, SDing is generally inferior to DDing because of the lack of a speed boost: arguably the most important stat boost in LC cause of how close the speed teirs are, so anything that DD's with a half way decent coverage performs better than SD bulbasaur

Bronzor is C. It can't do anything in the battle if it has been taunted, really. I think it has very good typing but all you have to do is slowly wear it down as it can't 2HKO anything. Vullaby and Murkrow can have a happy picnic on its face not to mention that every set-up sweeper laughs on its face, seeing that all of the threats on the upper ranks have at least one viable set-up move, I can't understand why Bronzor could be B.

Bronzor has always been a contriversial mon if memory serves. It walls the world for the first few turns but cant do much in the late game. I think it definitely belongs in the B-C range, but I'm probably going to sit on my hands until more qualified player makes their opinion on the mon known

Magnemite is B, possibly A. It's just a very good mon with the exact amount of support options to be annoying as hell. Sure, it's hampered by its Fighting weakness but at least it can Volt-switch to an appropriatte teammate to patch up that.

I'm with Corkscew on this, I think Magnemite is a B mon. Mag is an interesting pokemon because you never put one on your team and say "this will do something unpredictable at a time." If you're running Magnemite, it's role in life is killing steels. If your team is weak to steel walls, you slap on a magnemite and call it a night. It's a mon that supports your team and doesnt really ask for much in return, "hey please dont switch me into an EQ, k?" I'd agree with you on an A if it wasnt crippled by its slow speed w/o scarf.

All of the ghost are now outclassed offensively by Missy...;
But Frillish is better as a purely Defensive Ghost. I would say B; because it can fit in teams that can't afford using Lileep (like wanting to have Ferroseed or having too much Fighting weaknesses). I can really tell that Frillish is better than just C.

Yeah; this. I couldnt have said it better myself. Also, Gengen, why you gotta hate on Baby Pringles?

YES, Houndour for B as it really is the best mixed attacker bar MixKrow. And its typing is really good for attaking. Fighting weakness? Yes, but Houndour is more of a pokemon to severly cripple the opponent team before a bigger sweeper can unleash its power. It can trap Missy and it doesn't fear a Burn; it can be used on Sand to counter Snover and that's saying something big if Snover is A.

My biggest complaint with using Houndour is the very reason I always want to use him: His typing. Offensively, like you said, Dark Fire is *AMAZING* nigh perfect coverage, (resisted by Dieno and other houndour and the banned Carvanha), access to strong priority (120 Base with stab) in Sucker Punch etc. Defensively it blows. It's weak to the 3 most common attacking types in Ground Water and Fighting, two of which have priority attacks, and is also weak to Rock. I was originally pushing for C on houndour; but you made a really good point with the "cant be burned" and snover counter, and mostly it's roll as a wallbreaker more so than the teams dedicated sweeper. I'll agree with houndour at B


Sub edit: I thoguht of this after i posted; and figured i should just edit it in instead of Double posting.
Zorua for C Illusion is a much better ability than is given credit and zorua is no slouch offensively, boasting 65/80/65 offensive stats. Houndour for comparison's sake has 60/80/65. The 5 extra Base attack does grant Zorua an extra stat. Unfortunately Zorua has a bunch of things working against it. Unlike Houndour, it lacks a Strong secondary STAB. It's weak to fighting and just misses the 18 speed teir to reliabley outspeed non boosted scraggy and mienfoo; though even if it did I'm not sure what it could hit with that would justify staying in. Zorua definitely has a lot of ways to get around these flaws: it makes up its lack of a secondary stab with a wide offensive move pool, and illusion to trick opponents into switching and keeping fighters out. All in all though, i dont think it can really compete with houndour offensively, and if you're looking to Zorua for a defensive pokemon chances are you already moved on.

[Good_Luck!]

Maybe I had misunderstood Foongus role in a match but I honestly don't think it's a reliable check to Drilbur. The thing is, we agree in Foongus Rank, LOL.

Originally Posted by Fat Delver

it's most viable set is its Scarf set on the site.

I can't agree with this. Bulbasaur has a very viable Bulky Attacker set which I have used to great success against some very good players (I lost in most of them, though, but Bulba did a good job!). Most of what you said is true: outclassed as a set up sweeper, as a dedicated wall, and as a Chlorophyll sweeper. BUT there's something that Bulbasaur can do that all other Grass-types can't (even Lileep): pull off a Bulky Attacker Set with Giga Drain, Knock Off, Hidden Power Fire (because of Ferroseed) and Toxic/Stun Spore. Bulbasaur can deal a good amount of damage and recover with Giga Drain just like Mienfoo can; sure, it lacks Regenerator but its immunity to Toxic and not caring about a burn is good enough to be a big check to Scalding Water-types, Loling Rock-types, SandRushing Ground-types just like Foongus do but it can deal with other Grass-types, most notably Ferroseed (Knock Off + HP Fire is a KO) and Lileep (Knock Off + Toxic + Giga Drain), something that Foongus can't do. Bulbasaur isn't scared by most Special Attackers (like Misdreavus and Porygon) and can do a few things to them whereas Foongus must retreat to recover the lost Health. I promote Bulbasaur to B.

Originally Posted by Fat Corkscrew

In my opinion that fits Lickitung perfectly. Notable niche, but requires a crapload of support.

Well, I can't really argue that Licky needs support but it doesn't need THAT much of support. Dragon Tail is not only for dealing hazard damage, it could potentially gain momentum if you have a bad matchup for the opponent (I'm thinking of Bronzor or Lileep against Lickitung) and its damage can be potentially crippling if used early in the match, breaking Sturdies and Scouting movesets. Wish is something I can't use even if my life depend on it so I'm not going to discuss its merits. But with Cloud Nine it's a reliable check to Scarf Snover locked into a 70 acc Blizzard which does meh damage. I think it deserves B rank:

Originally Posted by Fat OP

B rank: Reserved for Pokemon who are great in the LC metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than of those above it that affects how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential.

I think the positives of Lickitung outshine its negatives and doesn't requiere LOTS of support; a common team in the meta would have a Hazard setter and at least two Fighting Checks so its not like you would build a team just for Lickitung to do its job.

Originally Posted by Fat Corkscrew

I kind of agree with you for the most part on Magnemite but I still feel B is more suitable than A. It's a very useful pokemon but when playing against it I never really think of it as a massive threat and it's not hard to wear down just by playing around it. It can be annoying and it is very good. Just not A material for me.

Originally Posted by Fat Delver

I think Magnemite is a B mon. Mag is an interesting pokemon because you never put one on your team and say "this will do something unpredictable at a time." If you're running Magnemite, it's role in life is killing steels. If your team is weak to steel walls, you slap on a magnemite and call it a night. It's a mon that supports your team and doesnt really ask for much in return, "hey please dont switch me into an EQ, k?" I'd agree with you on an A if it wasnt crippled by its slow speed w/o scarf.

Well, I can't argue with both of you as you make very good points, I just pushed a little further because Magnemite deserved discussion and I love the little bitchy magnet. It was worth trying ^^.

[blarajan]

Excellent discussion guys. Anyways, I don't know if it's been brought up before, but Riolu is easily an A class mon, and is S in my opinion but I'll push it as an A. Basically, Riolu is one of the if not the best Pokemon in this fucking tier, easily. Prankster Copycat is the best thing ever, and gives Riolu the ability to do a ton of things. Dratini is fucking up your team with Outrage? Copycat for the OHKO. Scraggy set up? Live a +1 Drain Punch, and Copycat twice to revenge / get back to near full health. Drilbur's a jerk? Live a Life Orb Earthquake, and Drain Punch / Copycat your way to victory. Misdreavus at low health? Copycat Shadow Ball, or use Crunch / Copycat. The sheer amount of different win conditions that can arise from using Copycat are enormous, including the utility it brings. You can stall out Timburr by using Copycat on Bulk up, and then win the Drain Punch wars because you can choose when to hit first or last. You can copy U-Turn / Volt Switch if necessary to keep up the momentum. And...ROAR CAT <3. Every day he's shuffling, spamming Roar if he wants to, but he doesn't have to to be effective. Basically, Riolu can't be tamed, and really should be an easy A class. No one who has used Riolu has ever said anything less than "this thing is fantastic."

[Bent1ey]

Mmmmh... I agree that Copycat Riolu seems pretty flexible, spamming priority attacks can be pretty cool (he can even switch into some resists and then send them back at the users), and Prankster it's a very powerful ability. Good typing and flexibility too. Too bad I haven't used it nearly enough to rate it properly, but A sounds promising.

[Lady Gaga]

4 pages and no-one seems to mention Ekans... but OK I'll go ahead and nominate Ekans for B rank. It can choose to go offensive with the Coil set, or go on the defensive with Glare + Switcheroo + Swagger. It even gets two great abilities to suit either set, and if it has Intimidate that makes it a check, if not an outright counter to one of the most popular Pokemon in LC, Mienfoo. Of course, rather underwhelming stats and a weakness to Ground attacks (Watch out for Drilbur unless you can hit with Glare on the switch-in) do limit its effectiveness quite a bit, but Ekans is nonetheless an underrated Pokemon whom I believe deserves more usage.

[Gengan]

Originally Posted by Fat Lady Gaga

4 pages and no-one seems to mention Ekans... but OK I'll go ahead and nominate Ekans for B rank. It can choose to go offensive with the Coil set, or go on the defensive with Glare + Switcheroo + Swagger. It even gets two great abilities to suit either set, and if it has Intimidate that makes it a check, if not an outright counter to one of the most popular Pokemon in LC, Mienfoo. Of course, rather underwhelming stats and a weakness to Ground attacks (Watch out for Drilbur unless you can hit with Glare on the switch-in) do limit its effectiveness quite a bit, but Ekans is nonetheless an underrated Pokemon whom I believe deserves more usage.

I'm agreeing with this except maybe it should be High C. Defensively, as a Poison-type, Koffing would do better thanks to Levitate and much higher defenses. However, as an offensive Pokemon, Ekans does well because it can use Intimidate to come in on many Physical-based attackers barring Drilbur and set up a Coil. Ex: Mienfoo. Send in Ekans, who resists both Drain Punch/HJK and U-turn and can weaken all of Mienfoo's attacks. Now Mienfoo has to switch out since it won't be able to do anything against Ekans, giving it a free turn to set up Coil. Plus, Eviolite buffs Ekans's defenses pretty good so it can set up easier. And you can use Shed Skin > Intimidate if Mienfoo isn't a problem, which helps you beat status spreaders easier.

[Danilo]

Yeah Riolu is not an S-Rank or an A-rank Pokemon. blararara brings up many good points on how Riolu is used other than its standard Roar spamming role, but i think he exaggerates. I've been playing around with Riolu with quite some time and I haven't had many games where I swept a weakened team by Copy Catting my move or my opponent's moves. The truth is, Riolu is just too frail. In a tier where priority is only almost all teams, Riolu doesn't have many chances to shine. It's certainly a top-tier B-Rank Pokemon but I don't think it makes the cut for A-Rank.

[blarajan]

Originally Posted by Fat Sir

Yeah Riolu is not an S-Rank or an A-rank Pokemon. blararara brings up many good points on how Riolu is used other than its standard Roar spamming role, but i think he exaggerates. I've been playing around with Riolu with quite some time and I haven't had many games where I swept a weakened team by Copy Catting my move or my opponent's moves. The truth is, Riolu is just too frail. In a tier where priority is only almost all teams, Riolu doesn't have many chances to shine. It's certainly a top-tier B-Rank Pokemon but I don't think it makes the cut for A-Rank.

Honestly, I'm not exaggerating in the slightest, as in every game I've used Riolu, I've had the opportunity to use Copycat in a really unique way to get a KO or to keep myself healthy. Riolu is actually not that frail, and with the suggested spread, has 23 / 21 / 18 defenses, which are in fact rather decent. It's incredibly difficult to OHKO--and due to Copycat Drain Punch, not OHKOing Riolu basically lets it heal up, as it hits twice in a row. Riolu's purpose is not to sweep entire teams with copied moves, and quite frankly it's rather difficult to get a Roar sweep going on. However, what it does do is provide a catch-all check for a variety of situations, while providing incredibly offensive momentum, an out in a variety of situations that you just don't get out of a Pokemon, and a win condition. Basically, I've never had a game that Riolu didn't excel when I had to use it in that game. Ever. It's won me a ton of games, and has contributed to a win in just as many situations. It's honestly the most fun, unique, and amazing Pokemon to bless Little Cup in a long time, in my honest opinion.

tl;dr i have a hard on for riolu

[Ray Jay]

Riolu should most definitely be A-Rank. It is currently one of the most underrated threat in the metagame, and also one of the most underprepared for (tons of teams lack the crucial Protects or Sucker Punches, and when they have those, Riolu can play around it!). The trick right now is stacking hazards is not a very common playstyle, as Ferroseed seems to have decreased in popularity, but Staryu is also seeming to fall in popularity so I think Riolu has a lot of potential. Overall I agree with blarajan, Riolu isn't that frail, it's not *that* weak to priority if you bring it out in the right part of the game, and, by definition, it fits in A Rank because it literally can shut down 90% of the tier.

[Good_Luck!]

I'm agreeing with Blara and Ray Jay that Riolu is an A Pokemon. It really shines with its Copycat and neutrality to all of priorities. It really is a difficult pokemon to face even if you have the priority to stop the roaring copycat. The smart player can foresee the Fake Out/Priority and play accordingly. I can't say it's frail because it takes at least two hits to take down and nothing with offensive recovery is easy to stall out. I really can't think of a pokemon who can OHKO Riolu without taking damage, maybe Murkrow with Sucker Punch to stop Prankster Copycat but, as I said before, the smart player would stop copycat and just use a regular roar. S-rank? Not enough because it really takes a little support from the team to REALLY excel its role as Shuffler. A-rank withou a doubt.

Originally Posted by Fat Gengan

Defensively, as a Poison-type, Koffing would do better thanks to Levitate and much higher defenses. However, as an offensive Pokemon, Ekans does well because it can use Intimidate to come in on many Physical-based attackers barring Drilbur and set up a Coil

In reality, Ekans is not a Defensive Pokemon; is more of an annoyer looking to force the opponent to switch out and take damage. It's not meant to be a defensive pivot either as it lacks any form of recovery. Personally, I have had so much fun with Ekans as many common stealth rock setters are crippled by a scarf switcheroo'd to them. I kinda agree with it being B-rank.

[macle]

Updated with

Riolu to A
Houndour, Larvesta, Magnemite, Shellder and Bronzor to B
Wingul to D

[Hawkstar]

If Riolu deserves A rank somehow, then another Fighting-type I wanna see in there is Timburr. The Bulk Up set is amazing, and since Misdreavus can only 3HKO with Shadow Ball and Will-O-Wisp helps it, it is one of the few Fighting-types that can beat Misdreavus reliably. Not just that, it is impossible to OHKO without a Brave Bird as even Sash Abra's Psychic can't OHKO it with the on-site set. With a Bulk Up boost, Timburr becomes a death machine, and can surmount Croagunk, Sandshrew, Mienfoo, and other bulky, powerful threats that once could check it. Mach Punch further sweetens the deal, and since it is the only Fighting-type in the tier to get it, that gives it a niche that can't be filled by anything else in the tier. It gets worn down easily if you are reckless with it, but otherwise, Timburr's excellent bulk, high Attack, and priority far outweigh its low Speed stat.

[blarajan]

I gotta agree with Hawkstar. To be completely honest, Timburr is anti-meta as all get out right now. It excels this meta and just isn't getting enough love.

[JacobNinja]

Originally Posted by Fat blarajan

I gotta agree with Hawkstar. To be completely honest, Timburr is anti-meta as all get out right now. It excels this meta and just isn't getting enough love.

Ahem Brave Bird Taillow Ahem

Also, Digllet isn't ranked yet. I feel it deserves A, as it is the strongest physical pokemon in the 20 speed tier, and it has just a wide enough movepool to be the premier anti weather. I am personally running an incredibly powerful diglett on my lc tourney team, which I will post after I am eliminated. Suffice to say, it can get a garunteed 2hk0 on all weather starters besides hippopotas or scarfers.

[Hawkstar]

2HKOes aren't enough for Diglett, who is tragically frail and still pretty weak. A Focus Sash alleviates this somewhat, but if there are hazards on your side of the field, it is almost a liability. Also, this isn't the thread for the mini-tournament, so there are only two weather inducers to worry about, and they both beat you easily. Scarf Snover is the most popular of its sets, and it outspeeds and OHKOes Diglett with Blizzard, unless it has a Sash, in which case the hail finishes it off. Hippopotas is obviously way too bulky for Diglett to handle. The list of stuff it can trap also isn't very big either, limited to Croagunk, Larvesta, Chinchou, and, uhh, I can't really name anything more. Diglett is nowhere near A tier, more like B or C.

Also, Elekid is in Diglett's Speed tier and has a higher Attack stat, making that point moot as well.

[Delver]

Originally Posted by Fat JacobNinja

Ahem Brave Bird Taillow Ahem

Also, Digllet isn't ranked yet. I feel it deserves A, as it is the strongest physical pokemon in the 20 speed tier, and it has just a wide enough movepool to be the premier anti weather. I am personally running an incredibly powerful diglett on my lc tourney team, which I will post after I am eliminated. Suffice to say, it can get a garunteed 2hk0 on all weather starters besides hippopotas or scarfers.

Similiar to how dugtrio works for OU? interesting. Nevertheless though I dont think we should really judge mons by their usefulness in the mini-tournaments (Also we coulda just called them "Little Cups") as they definitely have a much different metagame than does *actual* little cup. eDIT: just realized what you were talking about. My B ignore this.

Still, I think Diglet is a strong contender for at least a B rank. Arena trap and outspeeding essentially everything without a scarf (stupid voltorb) makes it a good Revenge killer, though you'll rarely get Diggy in on anything thats not an electric attack, so you'll often have to sac something to get him on the field. Ironically his sub-sub par defenses work as a boon, allowing him to fully enjoy 19HP LO without really caring because anything that touches him will kill him anyways regardless of previous damage!

Also you guys are making me want to play with Riolu now :/

[Lady Gaga]

Originally Posted by Fat Gengan

I'm agreeing with this except maybe it should be High C. Defensively, as a Poison-type, Koffing would do better thanks to Levitate and much higher defenses. However, as an offensive Pokemon, Ekans does well because it can use Intimidate to come in on many Physical-based attackers barring Drilbur and set up a Coil. Ex: Mienfoo. Send in Ekans, who resists both Drain Punch/HJK and U-turn and can weaken all of Mienfoo's attacks. Now Mienfoo has to switch out since it won't be able to do anything against Ekans, giving it a free turn to set up Coil. Plus, Eviolite buffs Ekans's defenses pretty good so it can set up easier. And you can use Shed Skin > Intimidate if Mienfoo isn't a problem, which helps you beat status spreaders easier.

Actually, Ekans can take both physical (Assuming Intimidate) and special hits better than Koffing, in addition to having Switcheroo + Glare, something Koffing wishes it had. The main advantage of using Koffing is that coveted Ground immunity and the ability to use Fire Blast.

[Hawkstar]

I've noticed that Pawniard isn't ranked yet, so I'll give my opinion on that since I've been using it lately.

Pawniard is a solid member of the B tier. It's typing is pretty good defensively, and it checks SubRoost Murkrow, Taillow, and Snover pretty well. Many compare it to Murkrow when teambuilding since they both fill the role of Sucker Punch user, and as such it is overlooked. Pawniard has a resistance to Stealth Rock, immunity to Toxic, and the ability to beat some things Murkrow can't such as Magnemite and Tirtouga. However, it lacks Murkrow's excellent Speed, usable Special Attack stat, and better STAB combination. Pawniard's 4x weakness to Fighting is also a big problem in this metagame. However, Swords Dance is what makes Pawniard so good, and it becomes an excellent late-game sweeper with it once Fighting-types are removed. Defiant is also really helpful, as if you switch into a Shadow Ball that drops your Special Defense, then the boosting has already been done for you! It also makes it the best counter to the rare FeatherDance Krow, as well as Memento users, Intimidate users, and any other move that causes random stat drops.

[Delver]

For the Ease of Discussion I compiled a list of the unranked mons:

...

---

A
Abra
Anorith
Archen
Aron
Axew
Azurill

B
Bagon
Baltoy
Barboach
Bellsrpout
Bidoof
Blitzle
Bonsly
Budew
Buizel
Bulbasaur
Buneary

C
Cacnea
Charmander
Chikorita
Chimchar
Chingling
Clamperl
Corphish
Cottonee
Cranidos
Cubchoo
Cubone
Cyndaquil

D
Darumaka
Deerling
Deino
Diglett
Doduo
Dratini
Drifloon
Drowzee
Ducklett
Duskull

E
Eevee
Ekans
Electrike
Elekid
Elgyem
Exeggcute

F
Ferroseed
Foongus
Frillish

G
Gastly
Geodude
Gible
Glameow
Goldeen
Golett
Gothita
Grimer
Growlithe
Gulpin

H
Hoothoot
Hoppip
Hosea

J
Joltik

K
Kabuto
Karrablast
Koffing
Krabby

L
Larvitar
Ledyba
Lickitung
Lillipup
Litwick
Lotad

M
Machop
Magby
Makuhita
Mankey
Mantyke
Mareep
Meowth
Minccino
Munchlax
Munna

N
Natu
Nidoran-M
Nosepass
Numel

O
Oddish
Omanyte
Onix
Oshawott

P
Paras
Patrat
Pawniard
Petilil
Phanpy
Pidgey
Pineco
Piplup
Poliwag
Ponyta
Poochyena
Psyduck

R
Ralts
Rattata
Remoraid
Rhyhorn
Roggenrola
Rufflet

S
Sandile
Sandshrew
Seedot
Seel
Sentret
Sewaddle
Shellos
Shelmet
Shieldon
Shinx
Shroomish
Shuppet
Skitty
Skorupi
Slowpoke
Slugma
Smoochum
Snivy
Snorunt
Snubbull
Solosis
Spearow
Spheal
Spinarak
Spoink
Squirtle
Starly
Stunky
Swablu
Swinub

T
Taillow
Teddiursa
Tentacool
Tepig
Timburr
Tirtouga
Torchic
Totodile
Trapinch
Treeko
Trubbish
Turtwig
Tympole
Tynamo

V
Vanillite
Venonat
Voltorb
Vullaby


W
Wailmer
Woobat
Wooper
Wynaut

Y
Yamask

Z
Zigzagoon
Zorua
Zubat

I probably wont update this; its mostly to renew discussion cause I think we're just running out of "oooh I used X once and it was really fun / good. Also i know a bunch of these were touched on in the thread, but either no discussion occured or no final teir was decided on.

As for Pawniard I can agree with B. I dont usually like to make a big deal about fighting weaknesses unless they're also weak to rock. The reason being, bar HP Fighting, you will rarely see a fighting type move on a None fighting mon. And lets be honest here, if you're switching pawniard into a mienfoo, 8/10 times you deserve to lose that match. Pawniard gets around Ghost's HP fighting with Sucker punch which makes it much more resilient than that glaringly red "Fighting" weakness makes it seem. Also it resists rocks and is immune to toxic spikes. While the latter is more a tertiary benefit, Resisting Stealth rocks is a huge boon, especially on highly offensive LO carrying Mons.
B is for mons with notable weaknesses outshined by its positive traits. That is pawniard in a nutshell.

I would like to touch on Corphish because I think it's an underrated sweeper and I think its a Low B - high C mon. Corphish tends to get overlooked because, statistically, Corphish is a bad Scraggy. It has less defense, MUCH less HP, Sp. Defense, and speed, and only 5 points higher in his attack stat (which doesnt give it the extra stat). However there are several oft over looked boons. Specifically Adaptability. With Stab Boost; Crab hammer becomes a fairly accurate, physical hydropump; which in the late game can prtty much OHKO anything that doesnt resist it. It maintains perfect coverage with Return; and has coverage in the form of Crunch / Brick Break. Noteworthy is Frillish, who walls the set completely if opting for BB over crunch. It manages to just barely make it to the coveted 14 speed stat, making a +1 dragon dance outspeed all non-scarfed mons in the meta.

Essentially; Corphish is a strong pokemon that's just outclassed in any area it could excel at. I know i started with B but as i wrote this I'm definitely seeing it more as a C mon

[Gengan]

Abra - B Rank

Abra has two amazing things that make it stand out as an attacker: great specially-offensive stats and Magic Guard, which make it a very good threat. It also has the perfect moveset available to it in the form of Psychic / HP Fight / Shadow Ball / Protect. Magic Guard is also a blessing, since it can absorb Poison and Burn, take no damage from entry hazards, and block out weather damage. The only thing keeping Abra from A Rank is its low Defense and HP, which makes it prey to the most common Dark-type in the tier, Murkrow (especially since HP Fight is only neutral and it needs to rely on a speed tie). It also needs Focus Sash to avoid being OHKOed by even neutral physical attacks.

[Nozzle]

Hey thanks for the list delver. That must've taken forever to make.
Here are my opinions for a couple of mons.


Krabby Darumaka and Cranidos for B Rank for sure. Their scarf sets outspeed every unboosted pokemon in the tier and they all hit like a truck due to their high attack stats. Krabby has an amazing STAB attack in Crabhammer who seriously plows through things. Darumaka is just a monster. It hits everything just so hard. When the opponent doesn't have a bulky water type available you'd be begging for a miss. Which unfortenately happens quite often. But the power is just amazing. Cranidos is the same as Darumaka, hits like a truck but misses often (Darumaka has hustle, Cranidos has Stone Edge missing) But if these guys dont miss their attacks they will kill a thing or two, maybe three.

[Corkscrew]

I have to disagree about Darumaka and Cranidos.
Darumaka's fire typing leaves it vulnerable to spikes and stealth rock meaning it can't switch in that often and thanks to Flare Blitz it will be worn down extremely quickly. Also hustle making all its moves the accuracy of stone edge is really undesirable, especially with u-turn as you could end up losing momentum from it instead of gaining it.
As for Cranidos, that too is very powerful with STAB Head Smash, but it will also get worn down quite quickly with recoil. The main downside for Cranidos though is weakness to some of the most common priority moves such as Aqua Jet, Mach Punch and Vacuum Wave. Most Sucker Punches will also KO due to its dreadful defenses.

Both are still good pokemon but they have a hard time finding a move slot on teams because there are better available revenge killers imo. For me, Darumaka is definitely a C and Cranidos is probably a C aswell. I've not used or seen Krabby so I can't comment on that but I imagine it's in the same boat.

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned Tirtouga. I'm going to say A Tier. It is probably the best shell smasher as it has many opportunities to set up. It is one of the few pokemon who can be considered a good check to Murkrow and can bypass Sucker Punch with Aqua Jet. The defensive set is also very good as it is incredibly bulky even without reliable recovery. It has great utility in Stealth Rock, Knock Off and Aqua Jet. Yes, it has its downsides, namely Croagunk and Ferroseed completely walling it but I feel it has enough use to be A tier despite this.


On a side note, is anyone else worrying that we're going to have a massive B tier compared to the other tiers?

[Nozzle]

Don't use head smash unless you REALLY need the power. Go with Stone Edge.

[Nozzle]

Joltik for C rank for sure. Its a very good scarfer but a bit outclassed by Chinchou and its SR weak. It can scout well when SR isnt on the field and its pretty good at revenging.

Drifloon for high B rank or low A rank. Its flying gem boosted acrobatics just OHKO's nearly everything that doesnt resist it. And after that you can blast your opponent away with more acrobatics, shadow balls and hidden powers. And the speed boost unburden gives you nearly always make you move first. And with a really fast destiny bond you can take your opponents with you. If played right this cute balloon can atleast destroy two pokemon on your opponents team.

[Nozzle]

All these pokemon must be stashed into E rank. All of these pokemon are atrocious. They are completely outclassed, can't do anything at all or are a complete gimmick.