Pokémon BW2 In-game Tier List Mark II - Page 8

Rajaion Tagami · Oct 25th, 2012, 10:31:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat TM13IceBeam

sorry i browse tvtropes too much

I'm sure plenty of people here do, it's pretty amusing. Anyway I'd like to add a little more to my Zorua analysis (changes in bold italics).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Rajaion Tagami

Zorua: - High/Top Tier (the odd playstyle to use it probably means high)
Availability: You get one for free in Driftviel (Midgame)
Stats: It's pretty frail, but that speed and special attack are just great. Physical attack, while overlooked, is no slouch either so it's very easy and effective to go mixed. Additionally N's Zorua comes with 30 IVs in every stat, to help it overcome some lacking base stats in Defences and further increasing offensive potential.
Typing: Dark Type is very good endgame, between STAB and psychic immunity it's quite useful. Mid game coverage is also quite good, even though it's mostly neutral. Just watch out for Fighting types.
Movepool: Small but precise. Teach it Snarl, Zoroark's special attack makes up for the low base power and the special attack drops are very helpful to teammates. Foul Play, Night Daze, Dig, U-Turn, Flamethrower, and possibly a boosting move are just about the only other moves worth using, but you rarely need more with Zoroark, but if you're willing to get the BP Hidden Power is also a very viable option, especially since those IVs mean it will always be fighting type which has amazing coverage with Zoroark's Dark STAB and plays off of the stronger special attack stat.
Major Battles: Zoroark is an interesting case, other than Skylla's Swoobat, Marlon's Jellicent, Colress's Beheeyem, Ghetsis's Cofagrigus, Shauntal, and Caitlin Zoroark isn't an obvious choice, but through smart use of Illusion a Zoroark can easily win battles where it would be expected to struggle. U-turn, special attack drops from snarl, and Psychic Immunity only add to the utility illusion gives. It should be noted that Zoroark is not a sweeper, and should usually U-turn out once Illusion is broken (but that can take longer than one might might expect depending on how Illusion is used).
It's fairly easy to beat the Pokemon League (other than Iris) using only a Zoroark and a Fighting Type.
Additional Comments: Being owned originally by N, Zorua will gain experience much more quickly than other pokemon, further adding to its usefullness. And I can't express just how essential Illusion abuse is to using a Zoroark. You'll definitely want a fighting type when using a Zoroark (But fighting types are so useful, you have one anyway) and ghost types generally work well for illusion.

Swamp-Rocket · Oct 25th, 2012, 8:36:19 PM

Hey everyone I made a list of what hasn't been tested yet in-game. I may have missed some entries but here's what I got.

...

I honestly think Corsola, Delibird, Ditto, and Shuckle should just get into Bottom tier to save everyone the trouble. They are just so awful.

I'm probably going to try to play through the game again using some of the late-game Pokemon and Grimer and stuff.

tlyee61 · Oct 25th, 2012, 11:47:58 PM

Name: Roselia - Tier High / Mid
Availability: Roselia starts appearing in Lostlorn Forest. Unfortunately, it only has a 15% chance of appearing...
Stats: Roselia's high base 100 Sp. Attack lets it hit hard with special attacks.
Typing: Sadly, Grass / Poison isn't the best typing. It's weak to many gyms and only effective against Clay and Marlon.
Movepool: Roselia's movepool is relatively shallow, but has some very powerful moves such as Petal Dance and Venoshock. Luckily, you get Venoshock before you get Roselia and it can learn Toxic. Two Base 100+ STABS are really powerful and can even rip through Pokemon that resist the hits.
Major Battles: Roselia handles Marlon and Clay really well. Using Petal Dance completely obliterates their Pokemon. Unfortunately, Elite 4 Caitlin gives Roselia some trouble. Luckily, it handles Marshal well, resisting his Fighting-type assualts.
Additional Comments: Overall, Petal Dance is an extremely threatening move to any Pokemon. It has the power 2HKO most Pokemon that even resist the hit! Toxic+Venoshock is also a viable combo, with immense power after the Pokemon is poisoned.

Malkyrian · Oct 26th, 2012, 12:40:48 AM

Okay, so I've been playing with Litwick. Quick Ctrl F scan doesn't turn up anything, so I'll post my thoughts...

Name: Litwick

Tier: High

Availability: Later end of midgame, almost impossible to miss if you stop at the Celestial Tower.

Stats: Incredible, once it evolves. 80 Spe is sufficient for ingame, dual 90 defenses are enough to take quite a few hits, and 145 SpA just speaks for itself. Typing is very useful, both offensively and defensively; 2 immunities (3 with Flash Fire which is easy to scout for) and 5 resistances on top of that.

Movepool: Has all it needs. Starts with Hex and Flame Blast; former is easily replaced with Shadow Ball from the TM near the Strange House, and latter is quite sufficient at 70 BP. Also can get Energy Ball from as soon as you get it, if you know where the TM is, and Minimize from the move relearner to troll bosses with (make sure you get it before it evolves to Chandelure!)

Major Battles: Much better in practice than it looks on paper. Hardest battle is probably Skyla, because it almost certainly hasn't evolved yet and thus can't really contribute. You'd think Marlon would give it trouble, but Energy Ball actually means Chandelure comes out on top (though you may need a Miracle Seed if the SpA isn't quite high enough). Trolls most other bosses with Minimize, though you'll probably need a backup for Ghetsis' Hydreigon, since it resists the standard coverage. Elite Four just keels over and dies, including Grimsley (though watch out for Rock coverage from Marshal).

Additional Comments: Its biggest issue is babying; Litwick is very very weak, and doesn't come early to make up for that. The good news, though, is that Ghost typing means the EXP-rich Audino has literally no way of damaging it. Once it evolves, you can promptly use the Dusk Stone from the Strange House on it and have a nuke from that point on. The only reasons it's High and not Top are: late arrival, babying until evolution. That's about it.

Alice in Strings · Oct 26th, 2012, 12:47:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Malkyrian

Okay, so I've been playing with Litwick. Quick Ctrl F scan doesn't turn up anything, so I'll post my thoughts...

Name: Litwick

Tier: High

Availability: Later end of midgame, almost impossible to miss if you stop at the Celestial Tower.

Stats: Incredible, once it evolves. 80 Spe is sufficient for ingame, dual 90 defenses are enough to take quite a few hits, and 145 SpA just speaks for itself. Typing is very useful, both offensively and defensively; 2 immunities (3 with Flash Fire which is easy to scout for) and 5 resistances on top of that.

Movepool: Has all it needs. Starts with Hex and Flame Blast; former is easily replaced with Shadow Ball from the TM near the Strange House, and latter is quite sufficient at 70 BP. Also can get Energy Ball from as soon as you get it, if you know where the TM is, and Minimize from the move relearner to troll bosses with (make sure you get it before it evolves to Chandelure!)

Major Battles: Much better in practice than it looks on paper. Hardest battle is probably Skyla, because it almost certainly hasn't evolved yet and thus can't really contribute. You'd think Marlon would give it trouble, but Energy Ball actually means Chandelure comes out on top (though you may need a Miracle Seed if the SpA isn't quite high enough). Trolls most other bosses with Minimize, though you'll probably need a backup for Ghetsis' Hydreigon, since it resists the standard coverage. Elite Four just keels over and dies, including Grimsley (though watch out for Rock coverage from Marshal).

Additional Comments: Its biggest issue is babying; Litwick is very very weak, and doesn't come early to make up for that. The good news, though, is that Ghost typing means the EXP-rich Audino has literally no way of damaging it. Once it evolves, you can promptly use the Dusk Stone from the Strange House on it and have a nuke from that point on. The only reasons it's High and not Top are: late arrival, babying until evolution. That's about it.

One nitpick here, Flame Burst is 80BP and pretty darn useful for double battles (see Reversal Mountain with Bianca) Cracks Sturdy Boldore there, which is nifty.

TM13IceBeam · Oct 26th, 2012, 2:43:15 AM

Flame Burst is 70 BP, and sometimes Bianca's AI is stupid.

Litwick requires only a few Audinos and maybe a while of abusing EXP share before evolution, seems cool...

also sunkern needs to be in bottom it can't really do anything

Antihaxxer · Oct 26th, 2012, 5:38:59 AM

Minimize ? I don't think relying on luck is good ... Psychic TM comes fast after the capture (Route 13), and it's way more useful (Against Poison Plasma Grunts, and against Marshall)

Flamethrower (Fire Blast) / Shadow Ball / Energy Ball / Psychic is the way to go.

For reminder, Energy Ball : As soon as you have Surf + Fly, Fly to your home, surf on the East, and get that useful TM for destroying all thoses Rock / Ground (and Water, but they're often bulky) pokemon

DHR-107 · Oct 26th, 2012, 5:55:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Swamp-Rocket

I honestly think Corsola, Delibird, Ditto, and Shuckle should just get into Bottom tier to save everyone the trouble. They are just so awful.

I used Shuckle in BW 1 (Toxic/Rollout/Struggle bug/something) and it did amazingly well. Took 3 surfs from Ghetsis' Hydreigon without dying. From an efficiency point of view yeah, it's terrible. But it's defences actually see use.

Also: I have trained a Sunflora in my main play through, was pretty good. Destroys Marlon easily and does reasonably against the rest of the game. Giga Drain/Leech Seed/Petal Dance is all you really need too, there are so many normal/dark types about. I'm genuinely surprised how good Grass attacks are in general in BW and BW2. I'd still only really place is Mid/Low at best though... Sunkern takes a bit of babying until you get the Sun Stone in Nimbassa and it is as slow as a growing mountain.

Prominence · Oct 26th, 2012, 8:26:35 PM

Aron: Mid Tier

Availability: As soon as you get the HM for Surf. If you captured a Magnemite with Magnet Pull, it's really easy to encounter.

Stats: It has great Atk and even better Def. Sturdy assures that you will live pretty much every attack at full health. His Speed is pretty bad, but you have Bulldoze for that.

Typing: Rock/Steel means a 4x weakness against Ground and Fighting. It being a Rock-type means you get STAB on Rock Slide, which you get in the same area as Aron and together you have your QuakEdge Light combo.

Movepool: It has Iron Head when you capture it. You may already own Bulldoze and if not you will obtain it soon after. Rock Slide is available in the same Cave where you capture Aron. Once it has evolved into an Aggron, it has access to the Elemental Punches too. There are a lot of useful moves you can tutor it.

Major Battles: You won't use it against Clay or the Humilau Gym Leader. It's amazing against Skyla and its Steel-type can help you against Drayden. Its Steel-type also means the Plasma grunts can't really hurt you. There are better options for the E4, but it can learn Shadow Claw which is useful against the Ghost- and Psychic-type E4 members.

Additional Comments: There's a ton of Fighting-type Pokémon ingame and most of them are faster than Aron/Lairon/Aggron, so that doesn't do Aggron much good. I think it could be higher than mid tier, because it does get STAB on Rock-type moves and you get Rock Slide very soon. It has a great movepool in general and it's an awesome sexy steel dinobeast.

BdB4445 · Oct 27th, 2012, 12:42:38 AM

I finished my game of W2 on Challenge Mode (Which is no more challenging btw). So here was my team:

Snivy - Mid Tier

Availability: Starter
Stats: Great Speed (Outspeeds anything you need to), Respectable Defenses, but low Offenses. Considering the move Coil, I like this stat distribution because he can boost his Atk and Def (and Acc) before the opponent attempts a physical move. Brace for impact, then swing right back. Plus, his speed means he can revenge kill.
Typing: Just grass. It comes with a few bad weaknesses (notably fire and flying) but it helps for neutral coverage. Also the home of Leech Seed and Giga Drain.
Movepool: Not huge, but enough. For a physical set, he has Coil (Great boosting move) and two strong, useful moves Leaf Blade and Return, that offer for great coverage. As for the last moveslot, He can opt for Leech Seed, Giga Drain, Dragon Tail, or Aqua Tail. Leech Seed helps ALOT early game and any of the rest can help late game. With Giga Drain, he can set up against the water type gym and gain hp back with giga drain.
Major Battles: He never really shines in any gym besides the water gym, but he can still put a good fight in a majority of the gyms (except maybe Flying). In earlier gyms, he tanked through a couple pokemon with leech seed (and other pokemon's help of course); and later gyms we went offensive.
Additional Comments: Not many people like serperior because he lacks raw power. I nominated Serperior for Medium because he became tedius to use late-game. He was always lagging behind and I chose to level him for the sake of leveling. Regardless, if you're willing to set up with coil each time, he can level pretty fast.

Growlithe - High Tier

Availability: Virbank Complex (Inside)
Stats: All around Great. 90/110/80/100/80/95. Nothing too low, but none are very high either. 110 atk was great though.
Typing: Fire. Great offensively, not too great defensively. He's not frail like Darmanitan though, so he has longevity when certain fights call for it.
Movepool: A lot of Physical moves to work with. Flare Blitz for starters, then other moves include Crunch, Outrage, Wild Charge, and ExtremeSpeed. On the special side, he has Flamethrower/Fire Blast and also Dragon Pulse. All of these are Arcanine's useful moves, which his non-fire options help distinguish him from Darmanitan. I ended up going with Flare Blitz / Crunch / Outrage / Fire Blast (When facing Physical tanks)
Major Battles: He didn't perform any miracles as Growlithe, though he destroyed Burgh's pokemon just fine. My Growlithe was adamant with almost perfect Atk EV's, so he could hold his own until evolution. As an arcanine, shit got real when He solo'ed Drayden's gym with outrage. With a couple levels behind, he outspeed and OHKO'ed or 2HKO'ed each one (I did have to cure his confusion though).
Also a groundbreaking note. My arcanine defeated Iris's Haxorus. It tanked an earthquake with a few hp and KO'ed after 2 outrages (2nd was a crit). Darmanitan can't do that.
Additional Comments: Raising Growlithe isn't too much fun, but he can hit pretty hard with flame wheel in the 20's, flamethrower in the 30's, and Crunch/Outrage in the 40's. Then he gets Flare Blitz which means evolution time. Also, playing on Challenge mode allows him to evolve earlier in the storyline (In my case, right before encountering Cobalion). Lastly, he can use the eviolite to make him feel less like a baby.

Zubat- mid-High Tier

Availability: Castelia Sewers
Stats: Just Damn fast, Respectable Attack, Respectable Bulk, Low SpA, but usable with Nasty Plot if you can breed (also good special moves too)
Typing: Poison / Flying. The flying is all you need, but it helps to quad-resist fighting, grass, and bug. The flying comes with a rock and electric weakness which hurts though.
Movepool: ACROBATICS 110 bp w/o an item. That is basically the only offense he needs. He also has access to Cross Poison (heartscale), X-Scissor, Bite, Fly (key HM), confuse ray, and screech. On the special side, you have Dark Pulse, Giga Drain, Sludge Bomb, and Heat Wave. Acrobatics alone renders X-scissor and Bite near-useless because if it's insane power with Stab (165bp > 160 bp or 120bp). U-Turn is also a great move if you want to go into the PWT. I went with Cross-Poison / Acrobatics / Fly / Screech (To make threats like hydreigon or haxorus frail for my teammates).
Major Battles: Upon catching Zubat, I made immediate use of him against Burgh's gym. At Elesa's gym, he was already a Crobat; but he has way too much trouble in that gym (Plus Acrobatics wasn't learned yet). After getting acrobatics, he pulled his weight just fine against the gyms that called for him.
Additional Comments: I didn't use him much in the E4, but only because I didn't need him. I attempted to use him against Marshal and Iris, but I made the BIGGEST choke in my life by giving him an Expert Belt. I went for the SE hits, but completely forgot about the way Acrobatics functions, and didn't realize it until he died to Hydreigon (I got to screech him though!). I still nominate him for a high tier though. He hits very hard with Acrobatics and can outpace any pokemon in the game, considering EV's. I guarantee I would've defeated haxorus with this.

Staryu - Top Tier

Availability: Undella Town (Rippling Water), actually pretty easy to encounter and catch. You'll have a water stone to evolve it immediately. He comes rather late, but honestly, you can deal with it.
Stats: Well laid out. Very fast, useful Sp. Atk, and okay defenses.
Typing: Water and Psychic, which is a great combination. Water for great neutral stab, and Psychic for destroying Marshall.
Movepool: Everything you need and more. Upon catching it, you'll have access to surf and Psychic is in the route north of it. When getting to Lacunosa town (bordering the route you find psychic in), you have access to Thunder/Blizzard. Though if not, then you can opt for Thunderwave (purchasable TM) and/or Confuse Ray (heartscale). Late in the game, you'll be able to use Ice Beam and Thunderbolt. In the end, I ran Surf / Psychic / T-Bolt / Ice Beam, and hooked on an expert belt.
Major Battles: He could battle anytime, anywhere honestly. I didn't use him so much in gym battles, but he had some fine exposure in the E4. He had some key kills such as the fighting type crew, Iris' Hydreigon, and Outspeeding and 1HKO'ing a choice Scarf Chandelure.
Additional Comments: The reason I gave Staryu the top tier is because of his insane potential with a good EV spread. With the ability to outspeed everything, good SpA, good offensive typing, a wide movepool, and an expert belt, he can surely wreak havoc on any team. *Also a note: Black two gives you access to Power Anklet and Power Lens pre-E4, so EV training for Speed/SpA is EASY. Staryu and Litwick deserve a top tier for such potential to abuse that.

Scraggy- Top Tier
Availability: Route 4 (before Burgh)
Stats: Pretty slow, but great defenses, and good atk. Speed EV's seriously help in the long run.
Typing: Dark/Fighting, the best you can wish for Offensively and Defensively at the same time.
Movepool: The Dual-Stab is all I used in game: Hi Jump Kick / Crunch / Brick Break / Strength as HM filler. Ice Punch is a viable tutor move though.
Major Battles: I didn't selfishly use him to abuse any gyms, but he carried a shitload during the E4. I benched him against the Ghost trainer because of CoFagigrous' Mummy, but I let him Solo the Dark and Psychic type trainer (I even outspeed and OHKO'ed Metagross 4 levels higher than scrafty). And for fun, I OHKO'ed White Kyurem with HJK. Fun Times
Additional Comments: Scrafty is probably the most reliable pokemon you could get. He is difficult to take down, and he can even build momentum with Moxie, which it's just a simple sweep. Also, his base speed at 58 is nothing to cry about because a good majority of pokemon can still be outspeed by scrafty when you invest a good load of Speed EV's (which isn't difficult at all).

I was ready to nominate Metang too, but I literally used him once, and I just died to Iris's Haxorus. Honestly, I didn't need him, but I'm sure he would've wrecked the Elite 4. (188atk at lv 53 for a clue)

Little Green Yoda · Oct 27th, 2012, 2:15:38 AM

I know everyone's probably using the Scraggy/Riolu lines for their Fighting type fix, but no love for Eviolite Timburr/Gurdurr? Solid mid tier in my experience.

Availability: Available in the Relic Passage somewhat early in the game. Don't know the encounter rate but I'm pretty sure I saw quite a few of those in my game.
Stats: 105 Attack is good. 85/85/40 defenses with Eviolite gives it a good chance to set-up on select Pokemon to prep for a bulky sweep with a little bit of item support.
Typing: Mono-Fighting, nothing too fancy. Just beat the crap out of stuff and avoid Flying/Psychic/Ghost types if possible.
Movepool: You get Work Up from the first gym so you can use that until it learns Bulk Up by level-up (you don't have to wait for the TM unlike some other Fighting types). Low Kick is alright until you get Hammer Arm in the later stages of your adventure. Rock Slide helps complement your Fighting attacks and it can make use of Strength inside and outside of battle. Learns Ice and Thunder Punches via move tutor even though I got by fine without them.
Major Battles: There weren't any instances aside from one E4 fight where I relied solely on Gurdurr but all you need is one physical attacker w/o Flying/Psychic attacks to set up and potentially smash through the rest of the opposition since the AI doesn't switch or phaze. It was certainly an asset in the Bug/Ground/Dragon Gyms and helped me finish off the Champion despite the fact I was underleveled and relatively unprepared.
Additional Comments: Guts didn't activate too often for me but it means status is one less thing to worry about. Once I got some dedicated HM slaves, I got rid of Strength for Facade. Beware of critical hits for obvious reasons.

Lucchini · Oct 27th, 2012, 5:22:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat BdB4445

Staryu - Top Tier

Availability: Undella Town (Rippling Water), actually pretty easy to encounter and catch. You'll have a water stone to evolve it immediately. He comes rather late, but honestly, you can deal with it.
Stats: Well laid out. Very fast, useful Sp. Atk, and okay defenses.
Typing: Water and Psychic, which is a great combination. Water for great neutral stab, and Psychic for destroying Marshall.
Movepool: Everything you need and more. Upon catching it, you'll have access to surf and Psychic is in the route north of it. When getting to Lacunosa town (bordering the route you find psychic in), you have access to Thunder/Blizzard. Though if not, then you can opt for Thunderwave (purchasable TM) and/or Confuse Ray (heartscale). Late in the game, you'll be able to use Ice Beam and Thunderbolt. In the end, I ran Surf / Psychic / T-Bolt / Ice Beam, and hooked on an expert belt.
Major Battles: He could battle anytime, anywhere honestly. I didn't use him so much in gym battles, but he had some fine exposure in the E4. He had some key kills such as the fighting type crew, Iris' Hydreigon, and Outspeeding and 1HKO'ing a choice Scarf Chandelure.
Additional Comments: The reason I gave Staryu the top tier is because of his insane potential with a good EV spread. With the ability to outspeed everything, good SpA, good offensive typing, a wide movepool, and an expert belt, he can surely wreak havoc on any team. *Also a note: Black two gives you access to Power Anklet and Power Lens pre-E4, so EV training for Speed/SpA is EASY. Staryu and Litwick deserve a top tier for such potential to abuse that.

I don't think EV training is acceptable in an efficient run. Starmie does come on time for the dragon type gym (if you teach it Blizzard by TM) and it's useful against Iris, but its typing is overall not the best one for the E4 battles (dark and ghost type specialists there, and even Marshal's bulky fighters have Payback). It's honestly not all that special for a Pokemon that joins six gyms in to warrant a space in the highest tier.

Son_of_Shadoo · Oct 27th, 2012, 5:24:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat DHR-107

Also: I have trained a Sunflora in my main play through, was pretty good. Destroys Marlon easily and does reasonably against the rest of the game. Giga Drain/Leech Seed/Petal Dance is all you really need too, there are so many normal/dark types about. I'm genuinely surprised how good Grass attacks are in general in BW and BW2. I'd still only really place is Mid/Low at best though... Sunkern takes a bit of babying until you get the Sun Stone in Nimbassa and it is as slow as a growing mountain.

Giga Drain, Leech Seed, Petal Dance... Sound like a familiar moveset to anyone? Lilligant has Sunflora completely beat here. Superior stats, a better ability (Own Tempo - why bother setting up sun?) and access to Sleep Powder and Quiver Dance. The only real advantage Sunflora would have is Earth Power, but that costs 10 Blue Shards, something you're not likely to have until endgame, by which point it's pretty useless. There is no point to using Sunflora over Lilligant, objectively speaking.

DHR-107 · Oct 27th, 2012, 5:52:22 AM

No, there probably isn't. Grass types are OK in general, but Lilligant/Serperior are probably much better options ingame. Sunflora is solid, but it's not setting anything on fire by doing anything new.

I'd probably vote Crobat to High/Top also. Insanely fast, surprisingly bulky and with access to Acrobatics via level up. I got mine about Lv 26. It pretty much destroys anything you want it too. I used mine against Haxorus (Drayden and Iris) and beat it out both times. It's my only pokemon (my team is now about Lv 60) that has every stat over 100...

BdB4445 · Oct 27th, 2012, 10:37:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Lucchini

I don't think EV training is acceptable in an efficient run. Starmie does come on time for the dragon type gym (if you teach it Blizzard by TM) and it's useful against Iris, but its typing is overall not the best one for the E4 battles (dark and ghost type specialists there, and even Marshal's bulky fighters have Payback). It's honestly not all that special for a Pokemon that joins six gyms in to warrant a space in the highest tier.

So these tier lists are based of pokemon using random EV's? Seems too idiotic if people find themselves "disappointed" with their chosen pokemon. At least it explains why I rated these a tier higher than average (for most of them).

And does it really matter if starmie comes late? There's still plenty of gametime ahead of him (even some after the 8th gym). I'd agree about the use of a pokemon like Metagross is in-game. He's so late is basically for the E4.

Starmie is great because he has the speed, power, and movepool to abuse an expert belt and net numerous OHKO's in the game.

Layell · Oct 27th, 2012, 11:02:30 AM

The idea of the tier lists is above all to complete the game as quickly as possible in order for a player to perhaps get to a legendary they want to capture on a restarted game or make the game not drag on. Specific EV training is a rarity although the bands should be considered it's not feasible to EV train when you need to beat the game first.

Natures, EV's and IV's should really only be considered with pokemon that from trades that have static ones (Zorua, Petilil) since not everyone will waste an hour catching a jolly Scraggy when a serious one will perform largely the same. If something is close to out-speeding you it's just a matter of leveling up until that is no longer the case.

Xphieldz · Oct 27th, 2012, 12:54:51 PM

I've been a long time follower of in-game tiers for pretty much every game, I figure it's time to contribute. I used this team when the game first came out.

Oshawott

...

Riolu

...

Magby

...

I'll write about the rest later.

TM13IceBeam · Oct 27th, 2012, 2:22:09 PM

i guess a good way to tell what pokemon are generally better would be to look at the 4 Pokemon currently in Top Tier: Drilbur, Darumaka, Magnemite and Scraggy. Drilbur and Darumaka possess a good combo of offense and speed, Magnemite and Scraggy have extremely good typing to complement their lack of speed (the former gives it a lot of resists, the latter is a generally good typing for both offense and defense), and in Scraggy's case, a good boosting move and ability for sweeping (Bulk Up, Moxie). All four have powerful moves early on to spam with (L33 Flare Blitz for Darumaka, L36 Earthquake for Drilbur, Thunder TM for Mag and L31 HJK for Scraggy). They also come noticeably early: the earliest you can get Mag is before Roxie, and the other three before Burgh.

star's issue is that it comes pretty late, however it's still one of the best in-game fillers because you can get appropriate moves for STAB almost immediately (Surf, Psychic) then fill up the rest of its moveset with good coverage moves (Thunder, Blizzard). not mentioning its immediate utility against Drayden and Marlon due to Boltbeam coverage. It even helps destroys Garbodors and other poison types in the Frigate. Starmie's E4 performance is sadly mediocre, but its useful against Iris due to Ice Beam. I think it should probably be high tier.

@layell: i think the only time when you need to recatch a pokemon is Azurill because the ability makes a very large difference in its usefulness...

Master of the Six Kings · Oct 27th, 2012, 3:40:59 PM

I'd like to propose Elekid to High Tier.

You can get him right before the second Gym, with useful moves in Thundershock, Low Kick and Quick Attack. While he's a tad difficult to grind up in between the level you get him at and 21, once he reaches that level and gets Shock Wave he can easily function until he evolves. Electabuzz is fast, powerful and has great moveset options. Because of the number of shards you find on your way, i had no trouble getting my Electabuzz Ice Punch, and he singlehandedly whiped Gyms 6-8 with it (Flying, Dragon, Water). Having access to ice Punch, and by this time Lucky Egg as well, allows you to grind on the Emolga/Altaria rebattle Trainer outside of Opelud to get to any level you desire quite easily.

You also find the Electrilizer before the E4 too, so you have the option of Electivire if you so desire. I have found Electabuzz to bee enough though, as he can pretty well 2 shot everything you face with TPunch/Tbolt/Ice Punch after you have beaten down the 3 gyms and rebat Trainer. I haven't yet gone through the E4, but my team is currently 1 HM Slave, 4 Level 50-52 guys and a level 72 Electabuzz. It's pretty rediculous. That rebattle trainer before the dragon gym definately makes Ice types you can get prior mid tier at worst.

mzenken · Oct 27th, 2012, 3:57:06 PM

Azurill

Azurill - High Tier

Availability: You can get it before the 1st gym. Only warning is that you must catch one with Huge Power, or else it's dead weight.

Stats: Early on, it has mediocre 50/40/40 defenses and has a somewhat hard time of taking hits. However, the essentially 100 base attack is absolutely insane early, and once it evolves into Azumarill, is packing base 150, with surprisingly good 100/80/80 defenses. Its speed hurts a little though, since you cannot get one with Aqua Jet before you beat the game.

Typing: Azurill's Normal typing is a great offensive typing early on, with the ability to abuse Frustration and Return until it evolves, and mediocre defensively because while its one weakness (Fighting) is very uncommon early on, no resists hurts. Azumarill's Water typing is amazing offensively, with the ability to spam Aqua Tail/Waterfall, but not great defensively, due to how common Grass and Electric moves are in game. The Fire and Ice resists help a lot, though.

Movepool: Almost immediately after you catch Azurill, you get Frustration, which you can abuse until its happiness gets high enough, in which you just swap it out for Return, which you get not long after. It also starts with Charm, which is a surprisingly good move against Cheren, but loses value after that battle. Helping Hand can be a good situational move in doubles as well. Azumarill's level up movepool is amazing. It gets Aqua Tail very early, and not long after, gets Double-Edge. It later gets Superpower at level 42, which completes the amazing Water/Normal/Fighting attack type trifecta that hits everything in-game for at least neutral damage. It is not reliant on TMs, as the only ones you might end up giving it are Waterfall and Return/Frustration, both automatically obtained in-game. The only move you might have to sidetrack for is Ice Punch, but there is an NPC around this time who gives you 10 Red Shards, which is just enough to tutor Ice Punch onto it.

Major Battles: Azurill with Charm can easily defeat Cheren by nullifying his Work Ups. It does OK vs Roxie, but has a hard time with Koffing. By the time you are at Burgh, you will probably have Azumarill, and it can OHKO Dwebble, but will have a hard time with Swadloon and Leavanny. It does surprisingly well vs Elesa, due to having the bulk to survive a Volt Switch, then proceeding to do high damage or OHKO whatever she switches in (watch out for Static, though!). It easily rolls over Clay and does OK against Skyla. If you tutored Ice Punch, it rolls over Drayden. Marlon is a little tough, though.

Against the E4, Azumarill does very well. It defeats 3/4ths of Shauntal's team (Cofag is a 100% counter against it, because of its high defense + Mummy), Grimsley either gets Superpowered (Liepard, Bisharp, Scrafty if you're feeling lucky) or Waterfalled (Krookodile), Caitlin is Waterfalled or Ice Punched (switch out vs Gothielle, though), and Marshal is Waterfalled. Iris is pretty much destroyed. Everything she has is weak to Waterfall, Superpower, or Ice Punch. Against Plasma, Azumarill does fairly well, hitting most things with Waterfall or Superpower, and the occasional Ice Punch.

Additional Comments: Use Huge Power or else it sucks. It gains EXP very fast as well, so expect lots of level ups. Lastly, you can get a Mystic Water very early, right after the second gym. The 20% boost to Aqua Tail/Waterfall can save you at times.

Antihaxxer · Oct 27th, 2012, 6:54:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat DHR-107

Also: I have trained a Sunflora in my main play through, was pretty good. Destroys Marlon easily and does reasonably against the rest of the game. Giga Drain/Leech Seed/Petal Dance is all you really need too, there are so many normal/dark types about. I'm genuinely surprised how good Grass attacks are in general in BW and BW2. I'd still only really place is Mid/Low at best though... Sunkern takes a bit of babying until you get the Sun Stone in Nimbassa and it is as slow as a growing mountain.

No, no and no. Sunflora is terrible, pre evolution is worst. 30 speed come on. It's slow. No Quiver Dance. Liligant is better.

Sunflora is between bottow and low

TM13IceBeam · Oct 28th, 2012, 12:08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Master of the Six Kings

I'd like to propose Elekid to High Tier.

You can get him right before the second Gym, with useful moves in Thundershock, Low Kick and Quick Attack. While he's a tad difficult to grind up in between the level you get him at and 21, once he reaches that level and gets Shock Wave he can easily function until he evolves. Electabuzz is fast, powerful and has great moveset options. Because of the number of shards you find on your way, i had no trouble getting my Electabuzz Ice Punch, and he singlehandedly whiped Gyms 6-8 with it (Flying, Dragon, Water). Having access to ice Punch, and by this time Lucky Egg as well, allows you to grind on the Emolga/Altaria rebattle Trainer outside of Opelud to get to any level you desire quite easily.

You also find the Electrilizer before the E4 too, so you have the option of Electivire if you so desire. I have found Electabuzz to bee enough though, as he can pretty well 2 shot everything you face with TPunch/Tbolt/Ice Punch after you have beaten down the 3 gyms and rebat Trainer. I haven't yet gone through the E4, but my team is currently 1 HM Slave, 4 Level 50-52 guys and a level 72 Electabuzz. It's pretty rediculous. That rebattle trainer before the dragon gym definately makes Ice types you can get prior mid tier at worst.

I found Elekid to be somewhat annoying, in the very least. Early on he was mostly spamming the crap out of TWave, Low Kick is useless earlygame since it 4HKOs everything, and not mentioning how stupidly difficult it is to switch in Elekid due to its pretty bad bulk. Not to say that its bad though: its extremely fast compared to other things you have at that point, and the power is adequate too. It just blows at durability which makes it difficult to switch in >.>"

**R_N** · Oct 28th, 2012, 3:08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Antihaxxer

No, no and no. Sunflora is terrible, pre evolution is worst. 30 speed come on. It's slow. No Quiver Dance. Liligant is better.

Sunflora is between bottow and low

The absolute worst part about Sunflora is that you have to deal with Sunkern for so long.
You are not getting a Sun Stone until Nimbasa. There is no wiggle room for this.

You're dragging a Sunkern, with all of its terrible frailty, weakness & slowness, past Cheren (where it is kind of able to last long enough due to relative weakness of everything around it, but even then those Patrats & Lillipups put a dent in you), the poison & fire infected Virbank, and then Burgh (and the sewers filled with Zubat & Grimer).

That's terrible enough for Snivy or Sewaddle but they can at least evolve before then and have some more stats to work with. The only reason I'm dealing with Sunkern now is because I can get a Sun Stone early out of the Dream Radar (and also because I kind of like Sunflora)

Hemp Man · Oct 28th, 2012, 4:30:10 AM

Quote:

but there is an NPC around this time who gives you 10 Red Shards

Wait what? Where?

Lucchini · Oct 28th, 2012, 5:07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Hemp Man

Wait what? Where?

From a man in Nimbasa's Pokemon Centre.

Oct 25th, 2012, 8:36:19 PM	#177
Swamp-Rocket Give me the number for 911! Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 543 USA	Hey everyone I made a list of what hasn't been tested yet in-game. I may have missed some entries but here's what I got. ... Sunkern Lillipup All 3 Monkeys Elekid Rattata Grimer Onix Timburr Skitty Buneary Cottonee Petlil Clefairy Eevee --> Flareon Eevee --> Umbreon Basculin Trubbish Maractus Klink Gothita Solosis Combee Emolga Pinsir Zebstrika Karrablast Shelmet Foongus Castform Baltoy Ferroseed Alomomola Zangoose Seviper Litwick Cubchoo Numel Spoink Banette Pelipper Lunatone Absol Mienfoo Gligar Pawniard Musketeers (All 3) Shuckle Remoraid Corsola Wailmer Spheal Swablu Vulpix Bronzor Ditto Sneasel Delibird Vanillish Seel Throh Sawk Bouffalant Druddigon Zweilous I honestly think Corsola, Delibird, Ditto, and Shuckle should just get into Bottom tier to save everyone the trouble. They are just so awful. I'm probably going to try to play through the game again using some of the late-game Pokemon and Grimer and stuff. __________________ kawakimi: UR DUM kawakimi: N WEIRD Completed Analyses: 16 In Progress: 2

Oct 25th, 2012, 11:47:58 PM	#178
tlyee61 Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 303 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯	Name: Roselia - Tier High / Mid Availability: Roselia starts appearing in Lostlorn Forest. Unfortunately, it only has a 15% chance of appearing... Stats: Roselia's high base 100 Sp. Attack lets it hit hard with special attacks. Typing: Sadly, Grass / Poison isn't the best typing. It's weak to many gyms and only effective against Clay and Marlon. Movepool: Roselia's movepool is relatively shallow, but has some very powerful moves such as Petal Dance and Venoshock. Luckily, you get Venoshock before you get Roselia and it can learn Toxic. Two Base 100+ STABS are really powerful and can even rip through Pokemon that resist the hits. Major Battles: Roselia handles Marlon and Clay really well. Using Petal Dance completely obliterates their Pokemon. Unfortunately, Elite 4 Caitlin gives Roselia some trouble. Luckily, it handles Marshal well, resisting his Fighting-type assualts. Additional Comments: Overall, Petal Dance is an extremely threatening move to any Pokemon. It has the power 2HKO most Pokemon that even resist the hit! Toxic+Venoshock is also a viable combo, with immense power after the Pokemon is poisoned. __________________ Happy to give VGC team rates! PM me anytime and I'll rate as soon as I can. VGC 2013 San Jose: 2nd place Seniors Division

Oct 26th, 2012, 12:40:48 AM	#179
Malkyrian Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 277	Okay, so I've been playing with Litwick. Quick Ctrl F scan doesn't turn up anything, so I'll post my thoughts... Name: Litwick Tier: High Availability: Later end of midgame, almost impossible to miss if you stop at the Celestial Tower. Stats: Incredible, once it evolves. 80 Spe is sufficient for ingame, dual 90 defenses are enough to take quite a few hits, and 145 SpA just speaks for itself. Typing is very useful, both offensively and defensively; 2 immunities (3 with Flash Fire which is easy to scout for) and 5 resistances on top of that. Movepool: Has all it needs. Starts with Hex and Flame Blast; former is easily replaced with Shadow Ball from the TM near the Strange House, and latter is quite sufficient at 70 BP. Also can get Energy Ball from as soon as you get it, if you know where the TM is, and Minimize from the move relearner to troll bosses with (make sure you get it before it evolves to Chandelure!) Major Battles: Much better in practice than it looks on paper. Hardest battle is probably Skyla, because it almost certainly hasn't evolved yet and thus can't really contribute. You'd think Marlon would give it trouble, but Energy Ball actually means Chandelure comes out on top (though you may need a Miracle Seed if the SpA isn't quite high enough). Trolls most other bosses with Minimize, though you'll probably need a backup for Ghetsis' Hydreigon, since it resists the standard coverage. Elite Four just keels over and dies, including Grimsley (though watch out for Rock coverage from Marshal). Additional Comments: Its biggest issue is babying; Litwick is very very weak, and doesn't come early to make up for that. The good news, though, is that Ghost typing means the EXP-rich Audino has literally no way of damaging it. Once it evolves, you can promptly use the Dusk Stone from the Strange House on it and have a nuke from that point on. The only reasons it's High and not Top are: late arrival, babying until evolution. That's about it. __________________ I play Touhou. Here are some of my best timeouts. A Fantasy's Transience \| Virtue of Wind God \| Nirvana's Cloudy Way in Purple \| Charming Siege from All Sides \| Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana

Oct 26th, 2012, 2:43:15 AM	#181
TM13IceBeam Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 3,246 stuck in the past, locked in the present, banned from the future	Flame Burst is 70 BP, and sometimes Bianca's AI is stupid. Litwick requires only a few Audinos and maybe a while of abusing EXP share before evolution, seems cool... also sunkern needs to be in bottom it can't really do anything __________________ Start of turn 24 Natu used Grass Knot! It's super effective! The foe's Corsola lost 31% of its health! Riolu ftw Amazing Rotom-S is amazing KAKUNA i'm dead, don't bother contacting me

Oct 27th, 2012, 2:15:38 AM	#186
Little Green Yoda Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,439 Dagobah m i rite?	I know everyone's probably using the Scraggy/Riolu lines for their Fighting type fix, but no love for Eviolite Timburr/Gurdurr? Solid mid tier in my experience. Availability: Available in the Relic Passage somewhat early in the game. Don't know the encounter rate but I'm pretty sure I saw quite a few of those in my game. Stats: 105 Attack is good. 85/85/40 defenses with Eviolite gives it a good chance to set-up on select Pokemon to prep for a bulky sweep with a little bit of item support. Typing: Mono-Fighting, nothing too fancy. Just beat the crap out of stuff and avoid Flying/Psychic/Ghost types if possible. Movepool: You get Work Up from the first gym so you can use that until it learns Bulk Up by level-up (you don't have to wait for the TM unlike some other Fighting types). Low Kick is alright until you get Hammer Arm in the later stages of your adventure. Rock Slide helps complement your Fighting attacks and it can make use of Strength inside and outside of battle. Learns Ice and Thunder Punches via move tutor even though I got by fine without them. Major Battles: There weren't any instances aside from one E4 fight where I relied solely on Gurdurr but all you need is one physical attacker w/o Flying/Psychic attacks to set up and potentially smash through the rest of the opposition since the AI doesn't switch or phaze. It was certainly an asset in the Bug/Ground/Dragon Gyms and helped me finish off the Champion despite the fact I was underleveled and relatively unprepared. Additional Comments: Guts didn't activate too often for me but it means status is one less thing to worry about. Once I got some dedicated HM slaves, I got rid of Strength for Facade. Beware of critical hits for obvious reasons. __________________ 4639 6767 1236 0217 3425 8379 1636 2204 6115

Oct 26th, 2012, 5:38:59 AM	#182
Antihaxxer Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 336	Minimize ? I don't think relying on luck is good ... Psychic TM comes fast after the capture (Route 13), and it's way more useful (Against Poison Plasma Grunts, and against Marshall) Flamethrower (Fire Blast) / Shadow Ball / Energy Ball / Psychic is the way to go. For reminder, Energy Ball : As soon as you have Surf + Fly, Fly to your home, surf on the East, and get that useful TM for destroying all thoses Rock / Ground (and Water, but they're often bulky) pokemon

Oct 26th, 2012, 8:26:35 PM	#184
Prominence Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 109	Aron: Mid Tier Availability: As soon as you get the HM for Surf. If you captured a Magnemite with Magnet Pull, it's really easy to encounter. Stats: It has great Atk and even better Def. Sturdy assures that you will live pretty much every attack at full health. His Speed is pretty bad, but you have Bulldoze for that. Typing: Rock/Steel means a 4x weakness against Ground and Fighting. It being a Rock-type means you get STAB on Rock Slide, which you get in the same area as Aron and together you have your QuakEdge Light combo. Movepool: It has Iron Head when you capture it. You may already own Bulldoze and if not you will obtain it soon after. Rock Slide is available in the same Cave where you capture Aron. Once it has evolved into an Aggron, it has access to the Elemental Punches too. There are a lot of useful moves you can tutor it. Major Battles: You won't use it against Clay or the Humilau Gym Leader. It's amazing against Skyla and its Steel-type can help you against Drayden. Its Steel-type also means the Plasma grunts can't really hurt you. There are better options for the E4, but it can learn Shadow Claw which is useful against the Ghost- and Psychic-type E4 members. Additional Comments: There's a ton of Fighting-type Pokémon ingame and most of them are faster than Aron/Lairon/Aggron, so that doesn't do Aggron much good. I think it could be higher than mid tier, because it does get STAB on Rock-type moves and you get Rock Slide very soon. It has a great movepool in general and it's an awesome sexy steel dinobeast.

Oct 27th, 2012, 12:42:38 AM	#185
BdB4445 Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 52	I finished my game of W2 on Challenge Mode (Which is no more challenging btw). So here was my team: Snivy - Mid Tier Availability: Starter Stats: Great Speed (Outspeeds anything you need to), Respectable Defenses, but low Offenses. Considering the move Coil, I like this stat distribution because he can boost his Atk and Def (and Acc) before the opponent attempts a physical move. Brace for impact, then swing right back. Plus, his speed means he can revenge kill. Typing: Just grass. It comes with a few bad weaknesses (notably fire and flying) but it helps for neutral coverage. Also the home of Leech Seed and Giga Drain. Movepool: Not huge, but enough. For a physical set, he has Coil (Great boosting move) and two strong, useful moves Leaf Blade and Return, that offer for great coverage. As for the last moveslot, He can opt for Leech Seed, Giga Drain, Dragon Tail, or Aqua Tail. Leech Seed helps ALOT early game and any of the rest can help late game. With Giga Drain, he can set up against the water type gym and gain hp back with giga drain. Major Battles: He never really shines in any gym besides the water gym, but he can still put a good fight in a majority of the gyms (except maybe Flying). In earlier gyms, he tanked through a couple pokemon with leech seed (and other pokemon's help of course); and later gyms we went offensive. Additional Comments: Not many people like serperior because he lacks raw power. I nominated Serperior for Medium because he became tedius to use late-game. He was always lagging behind and I chose to level him for the sake of leveling. Regardless, if you're willing to set up with coil each time, he can level pretty fast. Growlithe - High Tier Availability: Virbank Complex (Inside) Stats: All around Great. 90/110/80/100/80/95. Nothing too low, but none are very high either. 110 atk was great though. Typing: Fire. Great offensively, not too great defensively. He's not frail like Darmanitan though, so he has longevity when certain fights call for it. Movepool: A lot of Physical moves to work with. Flare Blitz for starters, then other moves include Crunch, Outrage, Wild Charge, and ExtremeSpeed. On the special side, he has Flamethrower/Fire Blast and also Dragon Pulse. All of these are Arcanine's useful moves, which his non-fire options help distinguish him from Darmanitan. I ended up going with Flare Blitz / Crunch / Outrage / Fire Blast (When facing Physical tanks) Major Battles: He didn't perform any miracles as Growlithe, though he destroyed Burgh's pokemon just fine. My Growlithe was adamant with almost perfect Atk EV's, so he could hold his own until evolution. As an arcanine, shit got real when He solo'ed Drayden's gym with outrage. With a couple levels behind, he outspeed and OHKO'ed or 2HKO'ed each one (I did have to cure his confusion though). Also a groundbreaking note. My arcanine defeated Iris's Haxorus. It tanked an earthquake with a few hp and KO'ed after 2 outrages (2nd was a crit). Darmanitan can't do that. Additional Comments: Raising Growlithe isn't too much fun, but he can hit pretty hard with flame wheel in the 20's, flamethrower in the 30's, and Crunch/Outrage in the 40's. Then he gets Flare Blitz which means evolution time. Also, playing on Challenge mode allows him to evolve earlier in the storyline (In my case, right before encountering Cobalion). Lastly, he can use the eviolite to make him feel less like a baby. Zubat- mid-High Tier Availability: Castelia Sewers Stats: Just Damn fast, Respectable Attack, Respectable Bulk, Low SpA, but usable with Nasty Plot if you can breed (also good special moves too) Typing: Poison / Flying. The flying is all you need, but it helps to quad-resist fighting, grass, and bug. The flying comes with a rock and electric weakness which hurts though. Movepool: ACROBATICS 110 bp w/o an item. That is basically the only offense he needs. He also has access to Cross Poison (heartscale), X-Scissor, Bite, Fly (key HM), confuse ray, and screech. On the special side, you have Dark Pulse, Giga Drain, Sludge Bomb, and Heat Wave. Acrobatics alone renders X-scissor and Bite near-useless because if it's insane power with Stab (165bp > 160 bp or 120bp). U-Turn is also a great move if you want to go into the PWT. I went with Cross-Poison / Acrobatics / Fly / Screech (To make threats like hydreigon or haxorus frail for my teammates). Major Battles: Upon catching Zubat, I made immediate use of him against Burgh's gym. At Elesa's gym, he was already a Crobat; but he has way too much trouble in that gym (Plus Acrobatics wasn't learned yet). After getting acrobatics, he pulled his weight just fine against the gyms that called for him. Additional Comments: I didn't use him much in the E4, but only because I didn't need him. I attempted to use him against Marshal and Iris, but I made the BIGGEST choke in my life by giving him an Expert Belt. I went for the SE hits, but completely forgot about the way Acrobatics functions, and didn't realize it until he died to Hydreigon (I got to screech him though!). I still nominate him for a high tier though. He hits very hard with Acrobatics and can outpace any pokemon in the game, considering EV's. I guarantee I would've defeated haxorus with this. Staryu - Top Tier Availability: Undella Town (Rippling Water), actually pretty easy to encounter and catch. You'll have a water stone to evolve it immediately. He comes rather late, but honestly, you can deal with it. Stats: Well laid out. Very fast, useful Sp. Atk, and okay defenses. Typing: Water and Psychic, which is a great combination. Water for great neutral stab, and Psychic for destroying Marshall. Movepool: Everything you need and more. Upon catching it, you'll have access to surf and Psychic is in the route north of it. When getting to Lacunosa town (bordering the route you find psychic in), you have access to Thunder/Blizzard. Though if not, then you can opt for Thunderwave (purchasable TM) and/or Confuse Ray (heartscale). Late in the game, you'll be able to use Ice Beam and Thunderbolt. In the end, I ran Surf / Psychic / T-Bolt / Ice Beam, and hooked on an expert belt. Major Battles: He could battle anytime, anywhere honestly. I didn't use him so much in gym battles, but he had some fine exposure in the E4. He had some key kills such as the fighting type crew, Iris' Hydreigon, and Outspeeding and 1HKO'ing a choice Scarf Chandelure. Additional Comments: The reason I gave Staryu the top tier is because of his insane potential with a good EV spread. With the ability to outspeed everything, good SpA, good offensive typing, a wide movepool, and an expert belt, he can surely wreak havoc on any team. Also a note: Black two gives you access to Power Anklet and Power Lens pre-E4, so EV training for Speed/SpA is EASY. Staryu and Litwick deserve a top tier for such potential to abuse that. Scraggy- Top Tier* Availability: Route 4 (before Burgh) Stats: Pretty slow, but great defenses, and good atk. Speed EV's seriously help in the long run. Typing: Dark/Fighting, the best you can wish for Offensively and Defensively at the same time. Movepool: The Dual-Stab is all I used in game: Hi Jump Kick / Crunch / Brick Break / Strength as HM filler. Ice Punch is a viable tutor move though. Major Battles: I didn't selfishly use him to abuse any gyms, but he carried a shitload during the E4. I benched him against the Ghost trainer because of CoFagigrous' Mummy, but I let him Solo the Dark and Psychic type trainer (I even outspeed and OHKO'ed Metagross 4 levels higher than scrafty). And for fun, I OHKO'ed White Kyurem with HJK. Fun Times Additional Comments: Scrafty is probably the most reliable pokemon you could get. He is difficult to take down, and he can even build momentum with Moxie, which it's just a simple sweep. Also, his base speed at 58 is nothing to cry about because a good majority of pokemon can still be outspeed by scrafty when you invest a good load of Speed EV's (which isn't difficult at all). I was ready to nominate Metang too, but I literally used him once, and I just died to Iris's Haxorus. Honestly, I didn't need him, but I'm sure he would've wrecked the Elite 4. (188atk at lv 53 for a clue)

Oct 27th, 2012, 5:52:22 AM	#189
DHR-107 Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 413 Their World	No, there probably isn't. Grass types are OK in general, but Lilligant/Serperior are probably much better options ingame. Sunflora is solid, but it's not setting anything on fire by doing anything new. I'd probably vote Crobat to High/Top also. Insanely fast, surprisingly bulky and with access to Acrobatics via level up. I got mine about Lv 26. It pretty much destroys anything you want it too. I used mine against Haxorus (Drayden and Iris) and beat it out both times. It's my only pokemon (my team is now about Lv 60) that has every stat over 100... __________________ I'm on a mission to train every Pokemon Family during a playthrough of 3rd to 5th Gen! Currently at: 532/602! Current Team (White 2 [4 badges]): Vulpix/Zoroark/Mr Mime/Cherrim/Deerling/Marshtomp Current Team (Black 2): Solrock/Emboar/Sunflora/Crobat/Dunsparce/Azumarill

Oct 27th, 2012, 11:02:30 AM	#191
Layell Alas poor player! Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,822 I knew him, Neku, a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy.	The idea of the tier lists is above all to complete the game as quickly as possible in order for a player to perhaps get to a legendary they want to capture on a restarted game or make the game not drag on. Specific EV training is a rarity although the bands should be considered it's not feasible to EV train when you need to beat the game first. Natures, EV's and IV's should really only be considered with pokemon that from trades that have static ones (Zorua, Petilil) since not everyone will waste an hour catching a jolly Scraggy when a serious one will perform largely the same. If something is close to out-speeding you it's just a matter of leveling up until that is no longer the case. __________________ #Orangeislands movie nights: The best way to watch the Pokemon films and specials! * Moderator on smogon's minecraft server * Goodnight Sweet Prince PS/Smogon April Fools 2013: file, credits, and server mode

Oct 27th, 2012, 12:54:51 PM	#192
Xphieldz Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 3	I've been a long time follower of in-game tiers for pretty much every game, I figure it's time to contribute. I used this team when the game first came out. Oshawott ... Oshawott - High Tier Availability: Starter, first Pokemon in the game. Stats: It has above average attacking stats throughout the entire game. It's moderately bulky so it can take neutral hits no problem. Its speed is alright, it won't be outspeeding a lot towards the endgame however. Typing: Water is pretty much necessary, as Surf and Waterfall are needed. Water STAB is nice for rock/ground/fire types and defensively it has no major issues. Movepool: Not bad. Getting Surf right after the 5th gym is nice, it can ride on that move for pretty much the entire game. It also learns decent coverage moves like X-Scissor, Ice Beam, and Blizzard. It's movepool isn't wide, but it serves its purpose. Major Battles: Neutral against the first three gyms, but can generally hit harder than the gym Pokemon (be careful of Sewaddle Line). Elesa hurts, but being neutral or good against most of the others is helpful. X-Scissor is very helpful against half of the Elite 4 and Surf is neutral against all of the E4 types. Ice moves are good for Iris, but fall short of OHKOs often. Additional Comments: Oshawott comes early and never really falls behind. I was originally planning on ditching it, but it was helpful enough that getting rid of it would have only hurt my team. Riolu ... Riolu - High Tier Availability: Before the first gym. However, the low chance (5%) of encounter makes it a pain to find, you may not encounter one unless you devote time to finding one. Stats: Riolu is pretty meh, but luckily it evolves early. Lucario has huge Attack and Special Attack with the Speed to back it up. 70/70/70 defenses are nothing to write home about, but Lucario can tank resistant hits well. Typing: Fighting is a very nice offensive typing with the huge amount of Dark and Steel types that are scattered through the game. Steel typing is very nice defensively and makes Lucario a safe switch often. Movepool: 110/115 offensive stats means Lucario hits solidly from both sides of the spectrum. Early Counter gets Riolu kills easily and lets it level up to match your team right away. I didn't get Force Palm before Cheren, but once you get it it will be your main STAB for most of the game. Lucario has a wide movepool, having access to Dark Pulse, Bone Rush, Psychic, Rock Slide, and much more as coverage moves. And that's not even including the shard moves. While it gets it late, Aura Sphere will clean up the ending of the story for you quite nicely. Major Battles: If you get Riolu to level 15 before Cheren I imagine its just easy experience. It's helpful in pretty much every gym, even with just neutral hits. Fighting STAB is nice against Team Plasma. My endgame moveset of Aura Sphere, Psychic, Dark Pusle, and Close Combat is super effective against every Elite 4 member. Nice. Additional Comments: Happiness evolution is very nice. It's feasible to get Lucario before level 20, allowing you to rip mid-game apart. Force Palm isn't great as primary STAB, but with 110 attack is a minor complaint. Magby ... Magby - Mid Tier Availability: Easy to find in the Virbank Complex, before the second gym. It's only in Black 2. Stats: Magby is interesting. On one hand, you have 75/70 offensive stats with 83 speed before the second gym. However, once things around you start to evolve Magby's awful defenses don't cut it. Eviolite Magmar and Magmortar are solid. Typing: Fire is alright. Being good against Steel and Bug are helpful, but the Rock, Ground, and Water weaknesses aren't appreciated. Movepool: While it's a Magby, it learns a wide variety of coverage moves but they all suck. Relying on Flame Burst and Fire Punch until level 36 isn't opportune. Getting Thunderbolt, Psychic, and Thunderpunch are nice coverage moves. Major Battles: Magby's only nice moment is against Burgh. Magmar isn't very good against Clay, Drayden, or Marlon. Team Plasma is beatable though. Additional Comments: If you could skip the Magby part I would put it higher. I used Magmortar, but I imagine Eviolite Magmar is also very usable. I'll write about the rest later.

Oct 27th, 2012, 2:22:09 PM	#193
TM13IceBeam Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 3,246 stuck in the past, locked in the present, banned from the future	i guess a good way to tell what pokemon are generally better would be to look at the 4 Pokemon currently in Top Tier: Drilbur, Darumaka, Magnemite and Scraggy. Drilbur and Darumaka possess a good combo of offense and speed, Magnemite and Scraggy have extremely good typing to complement their lack of speed (the former gives it a lot of resists, the latter is a generally good typing for both offense and defense), and in Scraggy's case, a good boosting move and ability for sweeping (Bulk Up, Moxie). All four have powerful moves early on to spam with (L33 Flare Blitz for Darumaka, L36 Earthquake for Drilbur, Thunder TM for Mag and L31 HJK for Scraggy). They also come noticeably early: the earliest you can get Mag is before Roxie, and the other three before Burgh. star's issue is that it comes pretty late, however it's still one of the best in-game fillers because you can get appropriate moves for STAB almost immediately (Surf, Psychic) then fill up the rest of its moveset with good coverage moves (Thunder, Blizzard). not mentioning its immediate utility against Drayden and Marlon due to Boltbeam coverage. It even helps destroys Garbodors and other poison types in the Frigate. Starmie's E4 performance is sadly mediocre, but its useful against Iris due to Ice Beam. I think it should probably be high tier. @layell: i think the only time when you need to recatch a pokemon is Azurill because the ability makes a very large difference in its usefulness... __________________ Start of turn 24 Natu used Grass Knot! It's super effective! The foe's Corsola lost 31% of its health! Riolu ftw Amazing Rotom-S is amazing KAKUNA i'm dead, don't bother contacting me

Oct 27th, 2012, 3:40:59 PM	#194
Master of the Six Kings Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 791 Where soccer is the correct terminology and bacon isn't dishonest	I'd like to propose Elekid to High Tier. You can get him right before the second Gym, with useful moves in Thundershock, Low Kick and Quick Attack. While he's a tad difficult to grind up in between the level you get him at and 21, once he reaches that level and gets Shock Wave he can easily function until he evolves. Electabuzz is fast, powerful and has great moveset options. Because of the number of shards you find on your way, i had no trouble getting my Electabuzz Ice Punch, and he singlehandedly whiped Gyms 6-8 with it (Flying, Dragon, Water). Having access to ice Punch, and by this time Lucky Egg as well, allows you to grind on the Emolga/Altaria rebattle Trainer outside of Opelud to get to any level you desire quite easily. You also find the Electrilizer before the E4 too, so you have the option of Electivire if you so desire. I have found Electabuzz to bee enough though, as he can pretty well 2 shot everything you face with TPunch/Tbolt/Ice Punch after you have beaten down the 3 gyms and rebat Trainer. I haven't yet gone through the E4, but my team is currently 1 HM Slave, 4 Level 50-52 guys and a level 72 Electabuzz. It's pretty rediculous. That rebattle trainer before the dragon gym definately makes Ice types you can get prior mid tier at worst.

Oct 27th, 2012, 3:57:06 PM	#195
mzenken Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 314	Azurill Azurill - High Tier Availability: You can get it before the 1st gym. Only warning is that you must catch one with Huge Power, or else it's dead weight. Stats: Early on, it has mediocre 50/40/40 defenses and has a somewhat hard time of taking hits. However, the essentially 100 base attack is absolutely insane early, and once it evolves into Azumarill, is packing base 150, with surprisingly good 100/80/80 defenses. Its speed hurts a little though, since you cannot get one with Aqua Jet before you beat the game. Typing: Azurill's Normal typing is a great offensive typing early on, with the ability to abuse Frustration and Return until it evolves, and mediocre defensively because while its one weakness (Fighting) is very uncommon early on, no resists hurts. Azumarill's Water typing is amazing offensively, with the ability to spam Aqua Tail/Waterfall, but not great defensively, due to how common Grass and Electric moves are in game. The Fire and Ice resists help a lot, though. Movepool: Almost immediately after you catch Azurill, you get Frustration, which you can abuse until its happiness gets high enough, in which you just swap it out for Return, which you get not long after. It also starts with Charm, which is a surprisingly good move against Cheren, but loses value after that battle. Helping Hand can be a good situational move in doubles as well. Azumarill's level up movepool is amazing. It gets Aqua Tail very early, and not long after, gets Double-Edge. It later gets Superpower at level 42, which completes the amazing Water/Normal/Fighting attack type trifecta that hits everything in-game for at least neutral damage. It is not reliant on TMs, as the only ones you might end up giving it are Waterfall and Return/Frustration, both automatically obtained in-game. The only move you might have to sidetrack for is Ice Punch, but there is an NPC around this time who gives you 10 Red Shards, which is just enough to tutor Ice Punch onto it. Major Battles: Azurill with Charm can easily defeat Cheren by nullifying his Work Ups. It does OK vs Roxie, but has a hard time with Koffing. By the time you are at Burgh, you will probably have Azumarill, and it can OHKO Dwebble, but will have a hard time with Swadloon and Leavanny. It does surprisingly well vs Elesa, due to having the bulk to survive a Volt Switch, then proceeding to do high damage or OHKO whatever she switches in (watch out for Static, though!). It easily rolls over Clay and does OK against Skyla. If you tutored Ice Punch, it rolls over Drayden. Marlon is a little tough, though. Against the E4, Azumarill does very well. It defeats 3/4ths of Shauntal's team (Cofag is a 100% counter against it, because of its high defense + Mummy), Grimsley either gets Superpowered (Liepard, Bisharp, Scrafty if you're feeling lucky) or Waterfalled (Krookodile), Caitlin is Waterfalled or Ice Punched (switch out vs Gothielle, though), and Marshal is Waterfalled. Iris is pretty much destroyed. Everything she has is weak to Waterfall, Superpower, or Ice Punch. Against Plasma, Azumarill does fairly well, hitting most things with Waterfall or Superpower, and the occasional Ice Punch. Additional Comments: Use Huge Power or else it sucks. It gains EXP very fast as well, so expect lots of level ups. Lastly, you can get a Mystic Water very early, right after the second gym. The 20% boost to Aqua Tail/Waterfall can save you at times. __________________ <+andrea> when i told him to make his mons level 50 <+andrea> HE WAS LIKE ITS NOT IN THE RULES <@Huy> i got yelled at for 50s <@Huy> he asked me if i did real vgc