OU niche discussion

[dragonuser]

Like PenguinX said, Lilligant's main redeeming factor is Quiver Dance. With sweepers like Sawsbuck/Venusaur the second the weather is changed, they are mainly dead weight. Lilligant can act effectively out of sun, and can still heavily threaten the opponents team. I really can't count the number of times I lost the weather war, but still managed to boost Lilligant and sweep my opponent. Lilligant had pretty much been forgotten when Giga Drain Venusaur came out, but it definitely has its own valuable niche in this metagame.

[tehy]

But lilligant is dead weight IN sun anyhow, because it's still walled by so much. Depending on the HP you run, you can still be walled the hell out of by plenty of stuff, and i'm not even going to bother to list it all. And you only boost plus one a turn, so you can't even super-boost and overwhelm sleeping quadresists.

[malomyotismon]

Ye dugtrio is actually a solid choice for weather teams, rain in particular. All it takes is for him to switch into tyranitar or ninetailes and bam you've won the weather war, rendering pokemon such as venasaur, sandslash and other weather abusers dead wieght and you can see why despite his many flaws how dangerous he can be for weather teams. Add genesect to that you can smash and trap mons, genesect weakens mons to the point dugtrio ko's them and you can't do anything because duggy has arena trap, and as an added bonus every single levitate or flying typing in ou genesect carries a super effective move for.

Yes dugtrio has some flaws namely being weak and frail, but his speed and ability allow him to be game changing if given the chance, epecially paied with genesect.

[Nozzle]

Im sorry guys i dont really know. Im not really in the calc stuff but i assume it can kill some stuff that venusaur cant but im not sure what excactly.

[Nozzle]

I feel like rotom frost has a niche in OU because it can blizzspam in hail a nd has STAB bolt beam coverage. Discuss.

[DarkBlazeR]

I can declare with confidence that Rotom-F is not at all viable in OU. Sure, it may get STAB BoltBeam, but the coverage is hardly threatening power-wise when compared with the brute strength of things like Sheer Force Landorus and Specs Keldeo. The real problem with Rotom-F though is that it has a terrible defensive typing - Ice being no real benefit to it, bringing a load of common weaknesses (including to Stealth Rock) that Rotom-W doesn't have to deal with. As most players know, using multiple Ice types on a Hail team is a bad idea as you're just compounding the same weaknesses. Besides, Kyurem outclasses Rotom-F as a Blizzard spammer anyway, so why bother with it?

[Lady Alex]

If I want a Blizzard spammer I'm going to use Kyurem. Rotom-F doesn't bring anything to the table that Rotom-W doesn't. Water typing is much better than Ice, defensively, and Hydro pump is a much more reliable STAB than Blizzard since Rotom-W doesn't rely on having any weather up in order to spam powerful Hydro Pumps. Not having stealth rock weaknesses is another thing that makes Rotom-w leagues better than Rotom-F

[Jukain]

I know you want to discuss Rotom-F but I have to clarify something. The Lilligant set in the OP has some mistakes (I made it). This is the actual set:

Lilligant @ Life Orb / Lum Berry / Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 60 Def / 252 SpA / 196 Spe
Modest / Timid Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice

So don't put HP EVs, the Def EVs are to survive Mamoswine's Jolly LO Ice Shard and have a good shot at Adamant. And if you go Timid make sure you use 24 HP / 252 SpA / 228 Spe for base 100s.

As previously mentioned, the best thing about Lilligant is its ability to function outside of sun. It is the only Chlorophyll sweeper you will want to set up with an opposing weather inducer alive. Lilligant wrecks opposing weather once you remove things that wall it. Oh and you guys are underestimating the difference in Speed. It's pretty major. Lilligant outspeeds Choice Scarf Latios/Terrakion with a Modest nature, which Venusaur can only dream of. As for power, there's really little difference, you get some 2HKOes and like two OHKOes, but nothing super important. The difference is notable after a few boosts though definitely.

[Nozzle]

thanks for pointing that out. ill change it immediatly.

[Nozzle]

the rotom-f discussion has dropped. it has only a litte niche in ou that isnt good enough.

[DarkBlazeR]

Surprised no one has brought up Kingdra for discussion yet. The ubiquity of rain teams is what makes it viable in OU, and it occupies an offensive position nothing else holds due to its unique typing in combination with Swift Swim.



Kingdra @ Choice Specs
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 24 HP / 252 SAtk / 232 Spd
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Surf
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Pulse

I've had the most success with this Choice Specs set. It annihilates most rain teams once their Ferrothorn is dead, and even without rain it is still a deadly attacker. Having both Hydro Pump/Surf and Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse may seem really redundant, but in all honesty it doesn't have anything else worth using, and doesn't really need any other coverage either. When using this Kingdra, simply choose between the more powerful option or the more reliable option, depending on the situation. The EVs allow Kingdra to outspeed Choice Scarf Lati@s in rain.

I've also tried LO Rain Dance and SubDD Kingdra. They're both good, though my personal favourite is still the Specs set as the LO recoil is really a nuisance, and DD Kingdra often finds itself having to lock itself into Outrage at inconvenient times due to lacking a safer Dragon attack in Dragon Claw, and does not hit anywhere near as hard as DDNite / DDMence (though I must say, not being Genesect-weak is a really great thing in this meta).

[Jimbon]

Lanturn @ Leftovers
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Def / 216 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Scald
- Sleep Talk
- Rest
- Volt Switch

I only just realized this thread was a thing, so I thought I'd chip in with a set. I've found this set to work pretty well against Rain Offense as nowadays the only real thing I've seen people have for this is Dugtrio who can only dish out 76% at maximum, while it can't switch in either with hazards up. But yeah, I found this thing to annoy the shit out of Rain teams, as there's a few things you can switch into Lanturn to beat it. It beats Thundurus-T and Tornadus-T, while +1 Genesect is only doing around 35-40% with U-Turn, only a 3HKO at best with Leftovers which gives you plenty of time to Rest up. Even Ferrothorn who supposedly walls bulky waters and Lanturn alike has to deal with the risk of a Scald burn, and if Ferrothorn gets burned it cannot beat Lanturn. You can mess around with the EVs to help with Dugtrio, but ultimately you'll still be taking hits very well. Taking 65% from a Latios Draco Meteor is great, as you can Rest up on it as it switches in and Sleep Talk the oncoming switch-in. A great defensive pivot for offense and balance teams alike while also providing much needed longevity.

[Arcticblast]

It's worth noting that Lanturn can run Heal Bell over one of the attacking moves (preferably Volt Switch), making it one of the best RestTalk Pokemon available.

[Joel]

Originally Posted by Fat DarkBlazeR

Surprised no one has brought up Kingdra for discussion yet. The ubiquity of rain teams is what makes it viable in OU, and it occupies an offensive position nothing else holds due to its unique typing in combination with Swift Swim.



Kingdra @ Choice Specs
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 24 HP / 252 SAtk / 232 Spd
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Surf
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Pulse

I've had the most success with this Choice Specs set. It annihilates most rain teams once their Ferrothorn is dead, and even without rain it is still a deadly attacker. Having both Hydro Pump/Surf and Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse may seem really redundant, but in all honesty it doesn't have anything else worth using, and doesn't really need any other coverage either. When using this Kingdra, simply choose between the more powerful option or the more reliable option, depending on the situation. The EVs allow Kingdra to outspeed Choice Scarf Lati@s in rain.

I've also tried LO Rain Dance and SubDD Kingdra. They're both good, though my personal favourite is still the Specs set as the LO recoil is really a nuisance, and DD Kingdra often finds itself having to lock itself into Outrage at inconvenient times due to lacking a safer Dragon attack in Dragon Claw, and does not hit anywhere near as hard as DDNite / DDMence (though I must say, not being Genesect-weak is a really great thing in this meta).

To much success , I have ran this set...

Kingdra @ Lum Berry
Nature: Jolly / Adamant
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Speed / 4 HP
Moveset:
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Waterfall
-Disable

I bolded Disable simply due to the fact that Kingdra, as a DDer, it is the only DDer able to use Disable. Lum Berry removes status, and after whatever might try to status potentially uses it's status move (or Scald, on a Rain team), you will probably outspeed after one DD, and Disable that threat from happening again.

Otherwise, if that threat isn't there, you can always just remove Kingdra's confused status with Lum, and keep sweeping/raping stuff.

I like DD Kingdra in today's metagame.

Screw SubDD Kingdra. This is better.