Hardest Relative NPC

[SHUCKLE MAN]

Brock in Pokemon Yellow is probably the hardest for me. The only options to beat it at that point are Mankey/Low Kick, Nidoran/Double Kick and Butterfree/Confusion. And those are difficult to get, as you have to train them to high levels (my team is usually L6/L7 by the time I get to Brock). Also Sabrina in Pokemon Yellow again (mainly because Psychic types are so broken in that game).

I honestly never found Misty difficult, in any game. I don't get why people found her so difficult lol. I mean, Bubblebeam is strong, but she uses X Defend like every turn, you always just Leech Seed it. Others I found difficult were Watson in RSE (mainly because of Magneton and its resistances), and Whitney in Gold (because of Miltank obviously).

I don't know if they count, but Pokemon Stadium 2 had the hardest NPCs of any game by far.

[Progeusz]

She doesn't always use X Defend. She likes to use Bubblebeam against other people. Charmeleon is OHKO'd, Wartortle is 3HKO'd. Not everyone usues Bulbasaur because Grass starers are only good in DPPt. Lvs 6/7 in Pewter City are extreme case of being underleveled. Brock is much worse in RB when his Pokemon have higher level, there is no Monkey and Nidorans don't have Double Kick. This leaves you with only Butterfree if you chose Charmander.

[TM13IceBeam]

how is your team L7 at brock
did you like
catch a full party of caterpies
only bother raising them to metapods and immediately challenge brock
i mean pikachu comes at L5 so you can't possibly be that low-levelled at brock
in fact iirc it's proven that pikachu can solo brock albeit very very slowly and painfully with tail whip and quick attack
besides mankey itself has a 20% appearance rate on Route 22 and you only need to raise it for 4 levels
it's not that difficult

[Deviljho]

I think it would be kind of cool if you were to rate the NPC battle that you remember on a scale of 1-11 it would be also cool if you provided a reason

1= Magikarp
2= Push-Over
3= Minimal Effort
4= Easy
5= Somewhat Easy
6= Moderate
7= Hard
8= Very Hard
9= Legendary
10= Arceus
11= Chuck Norris

I would rate my battle with Ghetsis in BW a 7 due to the fact that Although his Hydreigon was powerful it was nothing my Conkeldurr couldn't handle and the rest of his team was beaten by Chandelure and Emboar

[Son_of_Shadoo]

Originally Posted by Fat Progeusz

She doesn't always use X Defend. She likes to use Bubblebeam against other people. Charmeleon is OHKO'd, Wartortle is 3HKO'd. Not everyone usues Bulbasaur because Grass starers are only good in DPPt. Lvs 6/7 in Pewter City are extreme case of being underleveled. Brock is much worse in RB when his Pokemon have higher level, there is no Monkey and Nidorans don't have Double Kick. This leaves you with only Butterfree if you chose Charmander.

Grass starters are only good in DPPt? Please, Bulbasaur was an OG back in RBY. Auto-crit Razor Leaf, bitch! Also Sleep Powder, which became more readily available in FRLG.

[Progeusz]

Razor Leaf is Lv 30. You have to bother with 10 PP 35 bp move until then. Almost no coverage. You won't ohko any Poison type with RL and they're the most common type. There are many Flying types as well.
How does it compare to Fire Blast + Slash + Dig or Surf + Ice Beam?

[The Unlucky one]

Here is my failure. In BW1, i had some trouble with catilin's siglilyph since i was pretty underleveled and i didnt have anything to beat psychic aside from bug type moves.

[Chou Toshio]

It's no question that in RBY, Ivysaur/Venusaur is the weakest starter in mid/late game. Ivysaur's only real merit over the other two (and what puts it at the highest rank in in-game tiers) is that it is the simplest and most consistent way of beating Misty.

It's THAT big of a deal to beat Misty, arguably the relative strongest NPC in the game (she is-- you don't have to agree, but if you don't even see the rationale for thinking so you seriously need to play some more, without Ivysaur). It's a testament that Starmie even destroys Yellow Pikachu (unless you get really lucky with X-Defends).

[bwburke94]

Clay in BW2. If you don't grind at Route 6, his Krokorok will sweep your entire team. And if you somehow get past Krokorok, he still has THAT FRICKING EXCADRILL.

[M. Rock]

Originally Posted by Fat Chou Toshio

It's no question that in RBY, Ivysaur/Venusaur is the weakest starter in mid/late game. Ivysaur's only real merit over the other two (and what puts it at the highest rank in in-game tiers) is that it is the simplest and most consistent way of beating Misty.

It's THAT big of a deal to beat Misty, arguably the relative strongest NPC in the game (she is-- you don't have to agree, but if you don't even see the rationale for thinking so you seriously need to play some more, without Ivysaur). It's a testament that Starmie even destroys Yellow Pikachu (unless you get really lucky with X-Defends).

Well, you wouldn't want Yellow Pikachu to go one-on-one with Starmie anyway, simply because it's HP is too low to take too many hits. All you have to do is paralyze it and switch to something else; that's what Pika's good for, and PAR destroys that awful crit ratio so you team can have an easier time.

But, yeah, agreeing that Ivysaur/Venusaur is significantly less useful after Misty. Most of it is due to the sheer amount of Poison-types who are waiting to get steamrolled by Dig (which Charmander has).

[Zowayix]

CH rate in Gen I comes from base Speed, which does not change. Paralysis will not change CH rate.

(You might have gotten it mixed up with OHKO effectiveness, which is based on current speed and can change due to paralysis/Agility/etc.)

[Antihaxxer]

Originally Posted by Fat bwburke94

Clay in BW2. If you don't grind at Route 6, his Krokorok will sweep your entire team. And if you somehow get past Krokorok, he still has THAT FRICKING EXCADRILL.

With all water, grass & flying pokemon around his gym, I don't understand. Clay has always been the easiest gym in BW and BW2

[dbcb]

Originally Posted by Fat bwburke94

Clay in BW2. If you don't grind at Route 6, his Krokorok will sweep your entire team. And if you somehow get past Krokorok, he still has THAT FRICKING EXCADRILL.

Really? All three starters hurt him pretty bad (obv Sniv and Osh but Tepig's fighting moves hurt 3/4). There are numerous grass pokes hanging around. Fighting types hurt 3/4. There are not a bunch of water types around yet if I remember right (the duck on the bridge and the water monkey) but they smash as well.

[Antihaxxer]

You forget Marill-line :)

[dbcb]

Originally Posted by Fat Antihaxxer

You forget Marill-line :)

and psyduck

Plenty of pokes own Clay lol

[BdB4445]

For Each game (gyms):

RBY: Misty was definitely the most difficult w/o bulbasaur.
GSC (I only played HG): The normal type gym because of Miltank
RSE: It's been a very long time, but the fire gym with torkoal was the biggest issue with me (started with Treeko) that i remember.
DPP: In Diamond, the Ghost-gym. DPP - Water type with Floatzel and Gyarados.
BW/BW2: Elesa's gym for sure. It's the only Gen 5 gym I actually blacked out on, playing W2 challenge mode. I didn't have any fool-proof counters though (like trapinch).

[Hemp Man]

Originally Posted by Fat Chou Toshio

It's no question that in RBY, Ivysaur/Venusaur is the weakest starter in mid/late game. Ivysaur's only real merit over the other two (and what puts it at the highest rank in in-game tiers) is that it is the simplest and most consistent way of beating Misty.

It's THAT big of a deal to beat Misty, arguably the relative strongest NPC in the game (she is-- you don't have to agree, but if you don't even see the rationale for thinking so you seriously need to play some more, without Ivysaur). It's a testament that Starmie even destroys Yellow Pikachu (unless you get really lucky with X-Defends).

Hold up, as the person who wrote Bulbasaur's write up in the RB in-game tiers. Ivysaur and Venusaur are pretty good in-game too.

Type advantage over Gym 1, 2, 3.
Erika can be beaten if you have Body Slam/Take Down/etc. Only her Victreebel is a threat, Tangela is underleveld and Vileplume is walled by Venusaur
Koga has the type advantage but hes kinda a joke in RB anyway.
Sabrina and Blaine beat Bulbasaur, sadly.
Giovanni and the ominpresence of late-game Water types are beaten by Razor Leaf.

E4:
Venusaur is weak to Ice, but it can take Dewgong/Cloyster/Slowbro
Bruno is swept
Agatha is the only one who he loses to
Lance is glitched so his Dragons wont attack Bulbasaur in RB, Venusaur can handle Gyarados/Aerodactyl.

[M. Rock]

Originally Posted by Fat Zowayix

CH rate in Gen I comes from base Speed, which does not change. Paralysis will not change CH rate.

(You might have gotten it mixed up with OHKO effectiveness, which is based on current speed and can change due to paralysis/Agility/etc.)

I did get it mixed up. Thanks.

[TM13IceBeam]

Originally Posted by Fat bwburke94

Clay in BW2. If you don't grind at Route 6, his Krokorok will sweep your entire team. And if you somehow get past Krokorok, he still has THAT FRICKING EXCADRILL.

the only thing remotely difficult about clay is excadrill

any water type destroys him, even more so in BW2 since he doesn't have palpitoad anymore.

in fact most of the gym leaders are easy, the only one with a remote semblance of difficulty is elesa (emolga is immune to ground, and then zebstrika, yeah you can't just waltz in with something you just caught and win). every gym leader has something before it that completely beats it (anything strong enough for cheren, mag for roxie, darumaka for burgh, sandile for elesa, ducklett or deerling for clay, joltik for skyla, cobalion for drayden and virizion for marlon).

[SapphSabre777]

Where do I start...

G/S/C/HG/SS: Falkner's Mud Slap spamming drove me nuts (doesn't help when you have a Cyndaquil as a starter).

Whitney is a bane of my existance. It takes a miracle to go through her Miltank without some sort of collateral damage. She almost always flinches you with stomp, leaving you to slowly watch as you white out.

Morty isn't that bad, but come unprepared and Gengar will tear through your team like tissue paper. I always find myself having to sac some of my Pokemon just to win against it, and even then you will be under constant status effects thanks to his Haunter(s).

Clair is an egotist, the fact that she is arguably the hardest gym leader in the game doesn't make anything sweeter. Her Kingdra is demonic in terms of power, only Juan's DTing Kingdra beats hers in terms of annoying; but Clair's Kingdra makes it up for pure, raw power.

SPOILERS BELOW FOR ANYONE PLAYING B/W 2

...

---

Cheren can be quite the nuisance, especially when his high-leveled Lillipup appears and repeatedly uses Work Up. Once it gets two or more set up, you are at the mercy of luck and stats; but considering the low levels, you will probably get KOed.

Elesa is just unfair. One word: hax. Her Emolga is the typical Double Team spamming rodent that mops anything you throw at it. Her Flaffy just loves to put you under paralysis. And then Elesa's Zebstrika finishes the job by putting in some Flame Charges which guarantee her the first move.

Clay's Excadrill is OP. Just saying. It is ridiculously fast, and if it gets the chance to get an Attack boost from Metal Claw (which judging by the many complaints here, it will very likely happen), it is GAME OVER.

Skyla is PURE EVIL. The first game she was fine, but now she gets ABSOLUTELY ANNOYING HAX POWERS. Her Swoobat spammed Heart Stamp/Attract and I never got ONE MOVE IN, I WAS FLINCHED TO DEATH. Her Swanna is just a big "f u" to anyone who manages to get to it. It constantly burns you with Scald and lowers your Attack with FeatherDance, making it irritating to defeat her Pokes. And if SHE DOES get you with FeatherDance, she has a Skarmory...which walls everything and sweeps you after using Agility.

Ghetsis is a big troll (although I swept him with +6 Calm Mind Lucario). His Cofagrigus is an amazing staller (unfortunately) and although his Hydreigon is now physical, it doesn't help that he has a Life Orb and good coverage. If B/W Ghetsis made you squirm, then B/W 2 depicts him as Satan. He now holds a Toxicroak that will murder you easily and he has a Drapion and Eelektross that provides more coverage to his already ridiculous team.

Colress in the third battle is just intelligently annoying. ALL OF HIS POKEMON HOLD WELL-PLACED ITEMS AND ARE JUST PLAIN POWERFUL.

Magneton gets much more annoying as it still retains the Thunder Wave/Sturdy trick, but it gets a godsend in the EVIOLITE. Magnezone hits like a tank thanks to its Wise Glasses. Allowing Beheeyem to CM multiple times will spell your doom, and it has Recover so that it can act as a special wall, and Leftovers makes it SO much worse. Klinklang is relatively the same, but allowing it to use Shift Gear a lot is like giving yourself a death sentence.

But he gets two new Pokemon, and this is where the difficulty spikes to ridiculous levels. He now has a METAGROSS AND A ROTOM-W. His Metagross will use Agility and when it starts sweeping, it gets ridiculously powerful. But it is that Rotom-W that makes him difficult. He now HAS A VERY GOOD CHECK TO HIS WEAKNESSES. IT ALSO HAS A LIFE ORB, SO YOU WILL BE LEFT WITH A LOW AMOUNT OF HP, OR BE KOED ENTIRELY. To make it worse, it has Substitute and Will-O-Wisp, which will troll you if you cannot inflict enough damage.

[SHUCKLE MAN]

Originally Posted by Fat Progeusz

Razor Leaf is Lv 30. You have to bother with 10 PP 35 bp move until then. Almost no coverage. You won't ohko any Poison type with RL and they're the most common type. There are many Flying types as well.
How does it compare to Fire Blast + Slash + Dig or Surf + Ice Beam?

To be honest, limited coverage is something everybody learnt to tolerate back in the RBY days. Pokemon having usable non-STAB and non-normal-type moves was something quite notable (and when they did, they hardly ever learnt it by level-up). Some Pokemon like Voltorb and Goldeen had the most horrible level-up moves ever.

I honestly had hardly any problems playing with Bulbasaur. He makes the first 3 gym leaders embarrassinly easy, once you manage to get Leech Seed at least (even though it's weaker in RBY than later generations).

I have to admit though, Slash was amazing when I played with Charmander. Razor Leaf is amazing on Bulbasaur too. Towards the end of the game, when your team is like L40, but all the trainers are still using L25 Pidgey against you, you start even OHKOing the resists with Razor Leaf.

[BigZac]

besides the obvious(Misty in RBY, Red in HGSS, Whitney in GSC)...Veteran Maya on Route 18 in BW2.

Lvl 70 Salamence with Draco Meteor/Earthquake/Fire Blast and something else. That thing took out almost all of my team before Samurott was able to kill it with Ice Beam.

[dbcb]

Originally Posted by Fat SHUCKLE MAN

To be honest, limited coverage is something everybody learnt to tolerate back in the RBY days. Pokemon having usable non-STAB and non-normal-type moves was something quite notable (and when they did, they hardly ever learnt it by level-up). Some Pokemon like Voltorb and Goldeen had the most horrible level-up moves ever.

I honestly had hardly any problems playing with Bulbasaur. He makes the first 3 gym leaders embarrassinly easy, once you manage to get Leech Seed at least (even though it's weaker in RBY than later generations).

I have to admit though, Slash was amazing when I played with Charmander. Razor Leaf is amazing on Bulbasaur too. Towards the end of the game, when your team is like L40, but all the trainers are still using L25 Pidgey against you, you start even OHKOing the resists with Razor Leaf.

I think people forget how much simpler pokemon was back in the RBY games. I used Bulby and I was like 10 and didn't have any issue at all and he was always my highest leveled poke bc I used it so much

[NidokingKing]

For some reason, the battle against Colress on the Plasma Frigate was a lot harder than it should have been. I forgot to switch my lead to Lucario and trying to bring him in resulted in him getting thunder waved, fully paralyzed the next turn, and then beat by magnezone. The rest of that battle was somewhat even, but it shouldn't have been as close as it was.

The optional Ace Trainer at the end of Route 22 was also incredibly tough. An Arcanine and an Excadrill should not be able to sweep a team that has both a staryu, a samurott, and a lucario.

Obligatory mention to BW Ghetsis, whose difficulty laughs at BW2 Ghetsis.

Never had trouble on Misty, even with Charmander as my starter and not knowing that pikachu is in Viridian Forest.

I probably have others that were difficult but I can't remember at the moment.

[Pika25]

Did you DP on accident?

Clay's Excadrill was brutal on my Tepig (video). The only thing that saved me was my trusty Eviolite along with a bunch of healing items.