Underrated but effective sets in the BW2 overused metagame - Page 11

PDC · Oct 27th, 2012, 12:55:39 PM

Scolipede @ Bug Gem
Trait: Swarm
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Spikes
- Megahorn
- Earthquake
- Pursuit

One of the most underrated Pokemon in the entire game in my eyes, is none other than Scolipede. Scolipede just destroys Deoxys - D in one shot with a Bug Gem boosted Megahorn ( 252 Atk Bug Gem Scolipede Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 306-360 (100.65 - 118.42%) -- guaranteed OHKO ), preventing hazards from going up no matter what. The only way Deoxys - D can win is if it runs Tanga Berry, which is not common by any means. Scolipede also have the gift of amazing speed, a base speed stat of 112 allows it to outrun a huge portion of the metagame, most notably Latios and Gengar. But what really makes Scolipede a good choice is the fact that it can set up hazards by itself also, that being Spikes and Toxic Spikes. It's not like Scolipede has a huge advantage over every lead, but it can destroy Deoxys - D and stuff like Breloom very easily.

This Pokemon works great with anything that loves hazards off and on the field. It works great on offensive teams and it does great on teams that have a problem with Deoxys - D, and in the long run it will never be a wasted slot because it almost always gets 1 layer of hazards on the field.

BlankZero · Oct 27th, 2012, 1:06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat PDC

Scolipede @ Bug Gem
Trait: Swarm
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Spikes
- Megahorn
- Earthquake
- Pursuit

One of the most underrated Pokemon in the entire game in my eyes, is none other than Scolipede. Scolipede just destroys Deoxys - D in one shot with a Bug Gem boosted Megahorn ( 252 Atk Bug Gem Scolipede Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 306-360 (100.65 - 118.42%) -- guaranteed OHKO ), preventing hazards from going up no matter what. The only way Deoxys - D can win is if it runs Tanga Berry, which is not common by any means. Scolipede also have the gift of amazing speed, a base speed stat of 112 allows it to outrun a huge portion of the metagame, most notably Latios and Gengar. But what really makes Scolipede a good choice is the fact that it can set up hazards by itself also, that being Spikes and Toxic Spikes. It's not like Scolipede has a huge advantage over every lead, but it can destroy Deoxys - D and stuff like Breloom very easily.

This Pokemon works great with anything that loves hazards off and on the field. It works great on offensive teams and it does great on teams that have a problem with Deoxys - D, and in the long run it will never be a wasted slot because it almost always gets 1 layer of hazards on the field.

Interesting set. Definitely potential, but how viable is it really? ie, What else does it do that can't be done better by something else?

**dragonuser** · Oct 27th, 2012, 1:11:32 PM

Great set PDC!

@BlankZero, Scolipede serves as an anti measure vs the abundance of Deoxys-D HO teams in this metagame. If your opponent doesn't have a Deoxys-D you can always use it as a revenger/suicide spiker.

DarkBlazeR · Oct 27th, 2012, 1:18:17 PM

I believe I've posted a similar set in the OU Leads thread, so I can definitely attest to that set's effectiveness. I wasn't even aware Scolipede learned Pursuit though, which seems like a really interesting option.

BlankZero · Oct 27th, 2012, 1:21:20 PM

I can't see using it over Scizor though. Sure, the combo of Deo-D counter + Hazards is really nice, and I may play around with it at some point.

I'm just asking what kind of niche does it fill that another pokemon couldn't fill more efficiently?

FastFlygon · Oct 27th, 2012, 1:24:02 PM

I've used Scolipede a ton, and I can also concurr that it's damn good. Bug Gem Megahorn is suprisingly strong, OHKOing stuff like offensive Rotom, Tyranitar and the mentioned Deoxys. Nobody expects earthquake from it either for some reason, so its often able to smash Heatran for big damage while they set rocks, Spike on the switch and play from there. (Offensive Heatran is OHKOd, 252 HP takes about 80%)

It's an offensive Spiker that beats Deoxys-D, revenge kills Lati@s, OHKOing all common spreads except physically defense Latias with SR, and it has just enough attack to opportunistically pick things off with its various moves. I ran Rock Slide over Pursuit since it limits the number of boosts Dragonite can feasibly get and I didn't find things I wanted to trap would often switch out, but otherwise my set was identical.

I have also used Focus Sash on it to beat SR Terrakion, but I think Bug Gem is the better choice overall. A Terrakion will sometimes go for Taunt/Stone Edge T1 anyway, in which case you can 2HKO with EQ.

DarkBlazeR · Oct 27th, 2012, 1:26:32 PM

It's a faster Spikes user than Deoxys-D and has much more of an offensive presence. Whilst it is outclassed in each of its individual qualities (e.g. Scizor as an offensive Bug type), what it offers is a particular mix of support and offense that isn't seen in much else.

EDIT: Ninja'd

DrunkDemon · Oct 28th, 2012, 6:54:09 PM

The Fluffy Menace! (Prepare for a bit of an essay, because I know this is going to require some explanation.)

Altaria @ Leftovers
Trait: Cloud Nine
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Dragon Pulse
- Roost
- Roar / Haze
- Heal Bell

I know, I know, what am I thinking? At first glance, it seems like Altaria is outclassed in pretty much every aspect. Dragon Dance sets are inferior to every other Dragon Dancer - and every sweeper really - in the tier, it's bulk is actually not bad, but Latias, Dragonite, and even Salamence seem to perform better in defensive roles due to their abilities, movepools and/or stats. Since it's inception it seems to have been doomed to roam the lower tiers. But with the advent of BW, Altaria got something that really turned around it's viability in OU: Cloud Nine. This is a really anti-metagame ability, since it completely removes the effects of weather while Altaria is in play. This allows it to make deceptive use of it's bulk, since between it's key resistances and any weather boost to Fire or Water moves being removed, it can easily shrug off attacks. For reference, Altaria takes weather-boosted attacks almost two times better than standard Latias.

Of course this sounds great on paper, but to understand how Altaria actually fares against weather we have to look at how it stacks up against common threats on weather teams. Here are some examples of how surprisingly beefy Altaria is:

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Altaria: 102-120 (28.81 - 33.89%)

+1 252 SpA Life Orb Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Altaria: 137-162 (38.7 - 45.76%)

Yeah, it's that good. (Even HP Rock Volcarona gets phazed if Stealth Rock isn't up.) Just this alone is unique, and would give Altaria reason enough to have some use, but it doesn't stop there. I took a look at several prominent Rain and Sun threats, 14 to be exact, and Altaria is able to check at least some variants of 10 of them. Just to list them out, they are: Politoed, Keldeo, Gyarados, Rotom-W, Thundurus-T(Scarf, you should really have another response to this though), Tentacruel, Toxicroak, Ninetales, Venusaur, and Volcarona.

You might be thinking things couldn't get any better for Altaria, but there are still a few perks it has. To start, it isn't trapped by Dugtrio. This is huge, since it's quite common to see Dugtrio used as a way to eliminate certain weather checks. Heatran, for example, is commonly forced to use the awful Shed Shell in order to prevent combinations like GeneTrio from running it over. Altaria has no such problem. Second, it has reliable recovery. Using Heatran as an example again, although it's not particularly vulnerable to hazards, is prone to getting worn down quite a bit over the course of matches, often resulting in it being incapable of walling it's intended threats. Altaria is weak to Stealth Rock due to it's Flying-type, so this is crucial to its' success as a defensive Pokemon. Finally, it also gets some nifty support moves you don't see too much of in OU. I generally prefer to use Roar, but Haze is insanely useful against Baton Pass, which even well-built Stall teams often auto-lose to. Heal Bell is also really great, since it supports your team excellently, and prevents defensive variants of Ninetales, Politoed, and Tentacruel from wearing it down with status.

Unfortunately, there are some ways in which Altaria falls short. What stands out the most is it's 4x weakness to Ice; a lot of Pokemon wield these moves, and it seriously hurts our fluffy friend's walling capabilities, since there are certain threats - and variants of threats - that Altaria absolutely cannot hope to defeat. Altaria is also incapable of walling Genesect and Tornadus-T. This is quite unfortunate, as they're arguably THE offensive threats in the current metagame (I guess you can get lucky with a Hurricane miss against Tornadus, though). Stealth Rock also hurts Altaria some, as although it can still wall the threats in needs too, it will have a more difficult time switching in repeatedly. Finally, it also struggles with Dragon types, since they can easily pummel it with their super-powered STAB moves. This isn't anywhere near the end of the world, though. Specially Defensive Rotom-W, for example, solves three of these issues easily.

Here's a log of Altaria in action:
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou3525583

Possibly more to come.

In summary, Altaria is criminally underrated, and should at least be considered on teams ranging from Stall to Balance that struggle with weather.

BlankZero · Oct 28th, 2012, 9:59:00 PM

Holy crap.

I may have to look into that set on my team... Why can't I have 7 Pokemon!?

Yeah Galo Sengan · Oct 29th, 2012, 8:00:57 AM

That is an extremely creative way of handling weather in OU, kudos.

Delta Nite · Oct 30th, 2012, 7:24:54 PM

Gengar @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Counter
- Destiny Bond
- Shadow Ball
- Hypnosis

Altough it requires a bit of ballsy prediction, with this set Gengar more than often incapacitates 1-2 of your opponent's Pokémon. In the best scenario, you can put 1 Pokémon to sleep, pull off a Counter KO and go out with a Bang, I mean, Bond. Shadow Ball is used as a no brainer against common taunt users, and it can be awesome in some cases your opponent switches Espeon in predicting Hypnosis. And believe me, that happens a lot.

Gary2346 · Oct 30th, 2012, 11:20:31 PM

Believe it or not, after seeing someone go off on PO how terrible this thing was, I decided to put it on my well rounded weatherless team that I've had great success with, and she could take the place of Latias for a while. So far, she's actually doing a remarkable job on my team, and I think she deserves some recognition.

The Bitch (Gothitelle) (F) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature
- Psychic/Psyshock
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power Ice/Fire

Yea I'm talking about this bitch. The goth girl reject that even with the release of her new and awesome ability, she still has seemed to be turned down in favor of Dugtrio due to her lack of power and speed. However, with Choice Specs her mediocre power is patched up, and with max HP she can revenge trap anything that's weak to her moves. In my opinion, she is one of my favorite Terrakion counters ever. With max HP investment, she can switch into a Close Combat, and live another one, and OHKO it with Psychic. She's also great for dealing with walls like Jellicent, and even Reuniclus. I find her most useful on a non weather team, but she's great in weather too especially if your using Sun because she can trap Politoad. Psychic is for Terrakion, Conkeldurr, and Toxicroak. Psyshock is a better alternative for Tentacruel and Blissey/Chansey, however she can't effectively switch into a Bulk up Conkeldurr very well. Thunderbolt is for Water types like Jellicent, Tentacreul, and Politoad, and sometimes even useful for Tornadus-T. Shadow Ball is great for Xatu and Espeon, and can also take a hefty chunk out of Reuniclus. The hidden power is up to you, however I prefer Ice for a wider variety of things to trap like Gliscor, Dragonite, Landorus, and Garchomp. It all depends on what bothers your team the most. If Gliscor gives you a problem, then use HP Ice. If Ferrothorn and Scizor are annoying, use HP Fire. I wouldn't recommend using HP Fire only to deal with Genesect, because any of his moves can do a number on her.

Although many prefer Max speed Specs, I prefer bulky in order to revenge Terrakion and take a couple of hits to maybe last longer in the battle. I never could really figure out anything important to out speed maybe other than Breloom, however I have a lot of checks for Breloom, so like I mentioned earlier, her move set and spread all depends on your team. She works every well with Amoonguss and Breloom, because once the Pokemon is asleep she can safely switch in and revenge kill. She honestly works better with any status inducer such as Paralysis and burn.

But seriously, give bulky Specs Gothitelle a try. She's very good in and out of weather, and can really put a team under a lot of stress trying to predict and not become trapped. Many teams also underestimate her, so it makes it easier for her to go in for the kill. With proper team support, she can be a real bitch to deal with.

BlankZero · Oct 31st, 2012, 2:12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Delta Nite

Gengar @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Counter
- Destiny Bond
- Shadow Ball
- Hypnosis

Altough it requires a bit of ballsy prediction, with this set Gengar more than often incapacitates 1-2 of your opponent's Pokémon. In the best scenario, you can put 1 Pokémon to sleep, pull off a Counter KO and go out with a Bang, I mean, Bond. Shadow Ball is used as a no brainer against common taunt users, and it can be awesome in some cases your opponent switches Espeon in predicting Hypnosis. And believe me, that happens a lot.

Seems to be very prediction-heavy. I'm sure it works well, but it seems to be a lot of work to make it viable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Gary2346

Believe it or not, after seeing someone go off on PO how terrible this thing was, I decided to put it on my well rounded weatherless team that I've had great success with, and she could take the place of Latias for a while. So far, she's actually doing a remarkable job on my team, and I think she deserves some recognition.

The Bitch (Gothitelle) (F) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature
- Psychic/Psyshock
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power Ice/Fire

Yea I'm talking about this bitch. The goth girl reject that even with the release of her new and awesome ability, she still has seemed to be turned down in favor of Dugtrio due to her lack of power and speed. However, with Choice Specs her mediocre power is patched up, and with max HP she can revenge trap anything that's weak to her moves. In my opinion, she is one of my favorite Terrakion counters ever. With max HP investment, she can switch into a Close Combat, and live another one, and OHKO it with Psychic. She's also great for dealing with walls like Jellicent, and even Reuniclus. I find her most useful on a non weather team, but she's great in weather too especially if your using Sun because she can trap Politoad. Psychic is for Terrakion, Conkeldurr, and Toxicroak. Psyshock is a better alternative for Tentacruel and Blissey/Chansey, however she can't effectively switch into a Bulk up Conkeldurr very well. Thunderbolt is for Water types like Jellicent, Tentacreul, and Politoad, and sometimes even useful for Tornadus-T. Shadow Ball is great for Xatu and Espeon, and can also take a hefty chunk out of Reuniclus. The hidden power is up to you, however I prefer Ice for a wider variety of things to trap like Gliscor, Dragonite, Landorus, and Garchomp. It all depends on what bothers your team the most. If Gliscor gives you a problem, then use HP Ice. If Ferrothorn and Scizor are annoying, use HP Fire. I wouldn't recommend using HP Fire only to deal with Genesect, because any of his moves can do a number on her.

Although many prefer Max speed Specs, I prefer bulky in order to revenge Terrakion and take a couple of hits to maybe last longer in the battle. I never could really figure out anything important to out speed maybe other than Breloom, however I have a lot of checks for Breloom, so like I mentioned earlier, her move set and spread all depends on your team. She works every well with Amoonguss and Breloom, because once the Pokemon is asleep she can safely switch in and revenge kill. She honestly works better with any status inducer such as Paralysis and burn.

But seriously, give bulky Specs Gothitelle a try. She's very good in and out of weather, and can really put a team under a lot of stress trying to predict and not become trapped. Many teams also underestimate her, so it makes it easier for her to go in for the kill. With proper team support, she can be a real bitch to deal with.

Looks interesting, but what else can she do? Seems to me like a Bulky CM set would be king over this.

Just switch into something that it setup bait for her and CM up, then destroy. Then proceed to wreck a bunch of shit with her being all set up like that.

DarkBlazeR · Oct 31st, 2012, 2:40:41 AM

Quote:

Looks interesting, but what else can she do? Seems to me like a Bulky CM set would be king over this.

Just switch into something that it setup bait for her and CM up, then destroy. Then proceed to wreck a bunch of shit with her being all set up like that.

Specs is the best set because it gives Gothitelle the immediate power to break through the things it is trying to remove, e.g. Politoed. Scarf can also work out as a revenge killer, yet is unable to trap and KO defensive threats so easily.

CM sounds nice on paper but it'll never work in practise because Gothitelle is just too slow to sweep, and even with maximum investment in Defense, it is still nothing exceptional on the physical side.

Bent1ey · Oct 31st, 2012, 3:08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat DrunkDemon

The Fluffy Menace! (Prepare for a bit of an essay, because I know this is going to require some explanation.)

Altaria @ Leftovers
Trait: Cloud Nine
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Dragon Pulse
- Roost
- Roar / Haze
- Heal Bell

This set is pretty amazing, I love the way you handle Volcarona and Keldeo comfortable, great idea!

~~Murk~~ · Oct 31st, 2012, 3:47:12 AM

To be honest I'm not sure what that Altaria does that a defensive Dragonite (the TWave offensive Tank onsite is brutal in this metagame) doesn't do much, much better.

~~Keldeo333~~ · Oct 31st, 2012, 4:01:14 AM

My friend suggested this Mew set and only thing I can say is it's amazing, Even with no special attack investment it gets the OHKO on TIMID Genesect. Ice beam is also a OHKO on Landorus. Transform let's you check +2 Terrakion since you will be transforming into it and they will most likely go for stone edge which it resists then you can proceed to punch holes or sweep your opponents team at +2 attack and +1 speed It can also deal with a bunch of other boosting sweepers such as Gyarados since it will most likely go for waterfall then you can kill it with stone edge a common move they use or bounce. Last slot is of your choice really, It can use Tailwind if your mew as at low health and will be KO'd next turn so that the next pokemon you switch in has double speed. Trick to mess pokemon up. Rocks for rocks.

Mew @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Synchronize
IV's 30 Atk, 30 Def (for hp ice)
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flamethrower
- Transform
- Ice Beam
- TailWind/Trick/Stealth Rock

The Agonist · Oct 31st, 2012, 4:16:00 AM

Why does it have HP Ice when it can learn Ice Beam (and in fact, you're even running it)?

~~Keldeo333~~ · Oct 31st, 2012, 4:22:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat The Agonist

Why does it have HP Ice when it can learn Ice Beam (and in fact, you're even running it)?

For that when Mew transforms into something with hidden power it's ice and not dark.

Bent1ey · Oct 31st, 2012, 7:37:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Murk

To be honest I'm not sure what that Altaria does that a defensive Dragonite (the TWave offensive Tank onsite is brutal in this metagame) doesn't do much, much better.

Cloud Nine makes it so it's defense is better against target threats on weather, he will promote missing Thunder and Hurricane, along with the added durability against Fire attacks in the Sun and Water attacks on Rain and randomly shutting down Chlorophyl users. I need to calculate the bulk difference, but it seems like a decent alternative.

thegreatzoroark · Oct 31st, 2012, 9:24:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat mrb

An underrated pokemon period right now is Kingdra. With the prevalence of rain offense, Kingdra can easily outspeed every threat on a rain team. In fact, it outspeeds every common scarfer in the tier under the rain. Right now, I've been using a Choice Specs set.

Kingdra @ Choice Specs
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 36 HP / 252 SAtk / 220 Spd
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Pulse
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Fire]

The moveset is pretty simple. Draco Meteor does what Kingdra is meant for: wallbreaking. The usual switch in into a Kingdra is a bulky water like Slowbro, expecting a standard DD set. Draco Meteor OHKOs or 2HKOs all these bulky waters. Dragon Pulse is a more reliable STAB if Kingdra wishes to clean up teams after being weakened. Of course, Kingdra needs to deal with bulky steels like Jirachi or Heatran, so Hydro Pump is chosen as the secondary STAB. Finally, Kingdra's STABs leave it walled by Ferrothorn, which is dealt with Hidden Power [Fire]. It also lets Kingdra function better outside of rain.

For the EVs, Kingdra is given a Modest nature and max Special Attack to hit as hard as possible. 220 Speed EVs allows Kingdra to outspeed Scarf Terrakion under the rain. The rest of the EVs are dumped into HP, allowing Kingdra to tank hits and switch easily into most Politoed sets.

um i don't know it it still is but i think swift swim is banned under the rain.

Masamune · Oct 31st, 2012, 9:46:47 AM

Swift Swim + Drizzle is a banned combination on the same team. It's perfectly OK to have SS users on your team if you don't have a Drizzle user (presumably in the hope that the opponent will).

**Arcticblast** · Oct 31st, 2012, 9:54:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Keldeo333

My friend suggested this Mew set and only thing I can say is it's amazing, Even with no special attack investment it gets the OHKO on TIMID Genesect. Ice beam is also a OHKO on Landorus. Transform let's you check +2 Terrakion since you will be transforming into it and they will most likely go for stone edge which it resists then you can proceed to punch holes or sweep your opponents team at +2 attack and +1 speed It can also deal with a bunch of other boosting sweepers such as Gyarados since it will most likely go for waterfall then you can kill it with stone edge a common move they use or bounce. Last slot is of your choice really, It can use Tailwind if your mew as at low health and will be KO'd next turn so that the next pokemon you switch in has double speed. Trick to mess pokemon up. Rocks for rocks.

Mew @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Synchronize
IV's 30 Atk, 30 Def (for hp ice)
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flamethrower
- Transform
- Ice Beam
- TailWind/Trick/Stealth Rock

To my knowledge, Scarf Mew can't use Transform or it has to immediately switch out, since it would be locked into Transform.

superstar · Oct 31st, 2012, 3:48:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat BlankZero

Looks like fun! Although, if I could ask, why so much Speed on a Support mon? Why not more bulk? Roar has a negative priority anyhow if I remember correctly, and your speed won't matter there. It does seem like a good Genesect counter though, as you're pretty walled by it and it could blow you away pretty fast, but TWave it and it's crippled for the rest of the match, I like.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So I jumped in to see a match in OU, and found a fun little set the guy was running on his Rotom-W. Managed a 5-0 before the other guy Forfeit.

I asked the guy about his set, he said it was self made, and gave me the spread on it. I'll post it here for you all.

Rotom-W @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpAtk / 8 SpDef
Modest Nature
-Thunderbolt
-Hydro Pump
-Substitute
-Pain Split

While the match wasn't some kind of ridiculous comeback or anything, or even something spectacular to watch, it was still a very interesting and powerful set.

I'm not sure if that set can be considered underrated, since it's in the on-site analysis. However, I can attest to how powerful it is, easily able to set up on the common Mamoswine and wreck face from there. Especially good when partnered with HP Grass Keldeo, since this can take out all its counters.

Now onto my set:

Dragon Dance Latios
Latios @Life Orb/Leftovers
252 SpAtt/ 252 Spe
Hasty Nature (+Spe, -Def)
-Dragon Dance
-Earthquake/Psyshock
-Dragon Pulse
-Psyshock/Surf/Thunder(bolt)/HP Fire/Recover

Most people rely on one of four things to beat Latios: Mamoswine, Ferrothorn, Jirachi, and faster pokemon like Scarf Genesect, Terrakion, and Tornadus-T

This set beats all of these Pokemon. With the boost, you OHKO Jirachi with Earthquake, which ALWAYS stays in to take it. You are faster than Genesect, and can KO with rain boosted Surf or HP Fire. Terrakion falls to Psyshock. Tornadus-T loses to Dragon Pulse, and most other Pokemon are murdered by the power of a LO Dragon Pulse. All and all, a great set, which can usually net a few surprise KOs a match.

Lord of Bays · Oct 31st, 2012, 4:46:50 PM

You do NOT OHKO Jirachi with no investment. You need at least 200 Atk EVs (neutral nature) to have a better than even chance to OHKO 4/0 Jirachi after a Dragon Dance.

Oct 27th, 2012, 12:55:39 PM	#251
PDC A coward dies a thousand deaths, a soldier dies but one Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 609	Scolipede @ Bug Gem Trait: Swarm EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def Jolly Nature - Spikes - Megahorn - Earthquake - Pursuit One of the most underrated Pokemon in the entire game in my eyes, is none other than Scolipede. Scolipede just destroys Deoxys - D in one shot with a Bug Gem boosted Megahorn ( 252 Atk Bug Gem Scolipede Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 306-360 (100.65 - 118.42%) -- guaranteed OHKO ), preventing hazards from going up no matter what. The only way Deoxys - D can win is if it runs Tanga Berry, which is not common by any means. Scolipede also have the gift of amazing speed, a base speed stat of 112 allows it to outrun a huge portion of the metagame, most notably Latios and Gengar. But what really makes Scolipede a good choice is the fact that it can set up hazards by itself also, that being Spikes and Toxic Spikes. It's not like Scolipede has a huge advantage over every lead, but it can destroy Deoxys - D and stuff like Breloom very easily. This Pokemon works great with anything that loves hazards off and on the field. It works great on offensive teams and it does great on teams that have a problem with Deoxys - D, and in the long run it will never be a wasted slot because it almost always gets 1 layer of hazards on the field. __________________ Leave me a visitor message if you want me to rate your team!

Oct 27th, 2012, 1:21:20 PM	#255
BlankZero Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 557 East Coast, USA	I can't see using it over Scizor though. Sure, the combo of Deo-D counter + Hazards is really nice, and I may play around with it at some point. I'm just asking what kind of niche does it fill that another pokemon couldn't fill more efficiently? __________________ A forum post should be like a skirt; long enough to cover the important bits, yet short enough to keep things interesting. Most posts on Smogon are like Pantsuits.

Oct 27th, 2012, 1:24:02 PM	#256
FastFlygon Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 401	I've used Scolipede a ton, and I can also concurr that it's damn good. Bug Gem Megahorn is suprisingly strong, OHKOing stuff like offensive Rotom, Tyranitar and the mentioned Deoxys. Nobody expects earthquake from it either for some reason, so its often able to smash Heatran for big damage while they set rocks, Spike on the switch and play from there. (Offensive Heatran is OHKOd, 252 HP takes about 80%) It's an offensive Spiker that beats Deoxys-D, revenge kills Lati@s, OHKOing all common spreads except physically defense Latias with SR, and it has just enough attack to opportunistically pick things off with its various moves. I ran Rock Slide over Pursuit since it limits the number of boosts Dragonite can feasibly get and I didn't find things I wanted to trap would often switch out, but otherwise my set was identical. I have also used Focus Sash on it to beat SR Terrakion, but I think Bug Gem is the better choice overall. A Terrakion will sometimes go for Taunt/Stone Edge T1 anyway, in which case you can 2HKO with EQ. __________________ From Hell's Heart I Stab at Thee

Oct 28th, 2012, 6:54:09 PM	#258
DrunkDemon Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 200 A Gansta's Paradise	The Fluffy Menace! (Prepare for a bit of an essay, because I know this is going to require some explanation.) Altaria @ Leftovers Trait: Cloud Nine EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef Calm Nature - Dragon Pulse - Roost - Roar / Haze - Heal Bell I know, I know, what am I thinking? At first glance, it seems like Altaria is outclassed in pretty much every aspect. Dragon Dance sets are inferior to every other Dragon Dancer - and every sweeper really - in the tier, it's bulk is actually not bad, but Latias, Dragonite, and even Salamence seem to perform better in defensive roles due to their abilities, movepools and/or stats. Since it's inception it seems to have been doomed to roam the lower tiers. But with the advent of BW, Altaria got something that really turned around it's viability in OU: Cloud Nine. This is a really anti-metagame ability, since it completely removes the effects of weather while Altaria is in play. This allows it to make deceptive use of it's bulk, since between it's key resistances and any weather boost to Fire or Water moves being removed, it can easily shrug off attacks. For reference, Altaria takes weather-boosted attacks almost two times better than standard Latias. Of course this sounds great on paper, but to understand how Altaria actually fares against weather we have to look at how it stacks up against common threats on weather teams. Here are some examples of how surprisingly beefy Altaria is: 252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Altaria: 102-120 (28.81 - 33.89%) +1 252 SpA Life Orb Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Altaria: 137-162 (38.7 - 45.76%) Yeah, it's that good. (Even HP Rock Volcarona gets phazed if Stealth Rock isn't up.) Just this alone is unique, and would give Altaria reason enough to have some use, but it doesn't stop there. I took a look at several prominent Rain and Sun threats, 14 to be exact, and Altaria is able to check at least some variants of 10 of them. Just to list them out, they are: Politoed, Keldeo, Gyarados, Rotom-W, Thundurus-T(Scarf, you should really have another response to this though), Tentacruel, Toxicroak, Ninetales, Venusaur, and Volcarona. You might be thinking things couldn't get any better for Altaria, but there are still a few perks it has. To start, it isn't trapped by Dugtrio. This is huge, since it's quite common to see Dugtrio used as a way to eliminate certain weather checks. Heatran, for example, is commonly forced to use the awful Shed Shell in order to prevent combinations like GeneTrio from running it over. Altaria has no such problem. Second, it has reliable recovery. Using Heatran as an example again, although it's not particularly vulnerable to hazards, is prone to getting worn down quite a bit over the course of matches, often resulting in it being incapable of walling it's intended threats. Altaria is weak to Stealth Rock due to it's Flying-type, so this is crucial to its' success as a defensive Pokemon. Finally, it also gets some nifty support moves you don't see too much of in OU. I generally prefer to use Roar, but Haze is insanely useful against Baton Pass, which even well-built Stall teams often auto-lose to. Heal Bell is also really great, since it supports your team excellently, and prevents defensive variants of Ninetales, Politoed, and Tentacruel from wearing it down with status. Unfortunately, there are some ways in which Altaria falls short. What stands out the most is it's 4x weakness to Ice; a lot of Pokemon wield these moves, and it seriously hurts our fluffy friend's walling capabilities, since there are certain threats - and variants of threats - that Altaria absolutely cannot hope to defeat. Altaria is also incapable of walling Genesect and Tornadus-T. This is quite unfortunate, as they're arguably THE offensive threats in the current metagame (I guess you can get lucky with a Hurricane miss against Tornadus, though). Stealth Rock also hurts Altaria some, as although it can still wall the threats in needs too, it will have a more difficult time switching in repeatedly. Finally, it also struggles with Dragon types, since they can easily pummel it with their super-powered STAB moves. This isn't anywhere near the end of the world, though. Specially Defensive Rotom-W, for example, solves three of these issues easily. Here's a log of Altaria in action: http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou3525583 Possibly more to come. In summary, Altaria is criminally underrated, and should at least be considered on teams ranging from Stall to Balance that struggle with weather. __________________ Miep: The season finale is thirty minutes of Andrea's feet BobbyVaporeon: is it sexy Miep: No Miep: it's veiny Miep: and with crusty nails Last edited by DrunkDemon; Oct 28th, 2012 at 8:14:54 PM.

Oct 28th, 2012, 9:59:00 PM	#259
BlankZero Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 557 East Coast, USA	Holy crap. I may have to look into that set on my team... Why can't I have 7 Pokemon!? __________________ A forum post should be like a skirt; long enough to cover the important bits, yet short enough to keep things interesting. Most posts on Smogon are like Pantsuits.

Oct 27th, 2012, 1:11:32 PM	#253
dragonuser If our love is tragedy, why are you my remedy? Moderator Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 1,290 Mentor	Great set PDC! @BlankZero, Scolipede serves as an anti measure vs the abundance of Deoxys-D HO teams in this metagame. If your opponent doesn't have a Deoxys-D you can always use it as a revenger/suicide spiker.

Oct 27th, 2012, 1:18:17 PM	#254
DarkBlazeR Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 357	I believe I've posted a similar set in the OU Leads thread, so I can definitely attest to that set's effectiveness. I wasn't even aware Scolipede learned Pursuit though, which seems like a really interesting option.

Oct 27th, 2012, 1:26:32 PM	#257
DarkBlazeR Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 357	It's a faster Spikes user than Deoxys-D and has much more of an offensive presence. Whilst it is outclassed in each of its individual qualities (e.g. Scizor as an offensive Bug type), what it offers is a particular mix of support and offense that isn't seen in much else. EDIT: Ninja'd

Oct 29th, 2012, 8:00:57 AM	#260
Yeah Galo Sengan Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 415 ポリスマン／GAL男宣言	That is an extremely creative way of handling weather in OU, kudos.

Oct 30th, 2012, 7:24:54 PM	#261
Delta Nite Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 71	Gengar @ Focus Sash Ability: Levitate EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe Hasty Nature - Counter - Destiny Bond - Shadow Ball - Hypnosis Altough it requires a bit of ballsy prediction, with this set Gengar more than often incapacitates 1-2 of your opponent's Pokémon. In the best scenario, you can put 1 Pokémon to sleep, pull off a Counter KO and go out with a Bang, I mean, Bond. Shadow Ball is used as a no brainer against common taunt users, and it can be awesome in some cases your opponent switches Espeon in predicting Hypnosis. And believe me, that happens a lot.

Oct 30th, 2012, 11:20:31 PM	#262
Gary2346 Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 426 Hooters	Believe it or not, after seeing someone go off on PO how terrible this thing was, I decided to put it on my well rounded weatherless team that I've had great success with, and she could take the place of Latias for a while. So far, she's actually doing a remarkable job on my team, and I think she deserves some recognition. The Bitch (Gothitelle) (F) @ Choice Specs Trait: Shadow Tag EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk Modest Nature - Psychic/Psyshock - Thunderbolt - Shadow Ball - Hidden Power Ice/Fire Yea I'm talking about this bitch. The goth girl reject that even with the release of her new and awesome ability, she still has seemed to be turned down in favor of Dugtrio due to her lack of power and speed. However, with Choice Specs her mediocre power is patched up, and with max HP she can revenge trap anything that's weak to her moves. In my opinion, she is one of my favorite Terrakion counters ever. With max HP investment, she can switch into a Close Combat, and live another one, and OHKO it with Psychic. She's also great for dealing with walls like Jellicent, and even Reuniclus. I find her most useful on a non weather team, but she's great in weather too especially if your using Sun because she can trap Politoad. Psychic is for Terrakion, Conkeldurr, and Toxicroak. Psyshock is a better alternative for Tentacruel and Blissey/Chansey, however she can't effectively switch into a Bulk up Conkeldurr very well. Thunderbolt is for Water types like Jellicent, Tentacreul, and Politoad, and sometimes even useful for Tornadus-T. Shadow Ball is great for Xatu and Espeon, and can also take a hefty chunk out of Reuniclus. The hidden power is up to you, however I prefer Ice for a wider variety of things to trap like Gliscor, Dragonite, Landorus, and Garchomp. It all depends on what bothers your team the most. If Gliscor gives you a problem, then use HP Ice. If Ferrothorn and Scizor are annoying, use HP Fire. I wouldn't recommend using HP Fire only to deal with Genesect, because any of his moves can do a number on her. Although many prefer Max speed Specs, I prefer bulky in order to revenge Terrakion and take a couple of hits to maybe last longer in the battle. I never could really figure out anything important to out speed maybe other than Breloom, however I have a lot of checks for Breloom, so like I mentioned earlier, her move set and spread all depends on your team. She works every well with Amoonguss and Breloom, because once the Pokemon is asleep she can safely switch in and revenge kill. She honestly works better with any status inducer such as Paralysis and burn. But seriously, give bulky Specs Gothitelle a try. She's very good in and out of weather, and can really put a team under a lot of stress trying to predict and not become trapped. Many teams also underestimate her, so it makes it easier for her to go in for the kill. With proper team support, she can be a real bitch to deal with. __________________ PM or VM me for an OU RMT Rate! Check out my YouTube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheGary2346 It's still in the works, but you get the point.

Oct 31st, 2012, 3:47:12 AM	#266
~~Murk~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 10	To be honest I'm not sure what that Altaria does that a defensive Dragonite (the TWave offensive Tank onsite is brutal in this metagame) doesn't do much, much better.

Oct 31st, 2012, 4:01:14 AM	#267
~~Keldeo333~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 13	My friend suggested this Mew set and only thing I can say is it's amazing, Even with no special attack investment it gets the OHKO on TIMID Genesect. Ice beam is also a OHKO on Landorus. Transform let's you check +2 Terrakion since you will be transforming into it and they will most likely go for stone edge which it resists then you can proceed to punch holes or sweep your opponents team at +2 attack and +1 speed It can also deal with a bunch of other boosting sweepers such as Gyarados since it will most likely go for waterfall then you can kill it with stone edge a common move they use or bounce. Last slot is of your choice really, It can use Tailwind if your mew as at low health and will be KO'd next turn so that the next pokemon you switch in has double speed. Trick to mess pokemon up. Rocks for rocks. Mew @ Choice Scarf Ability: Synchronize IV's 30 Atk, 30 Def (for hp ice) EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spe Timid Nature - Flamethrower - Transform - Ice Beam - TailWind/Trick/Stealth Rock

Oct 31st, 2012, 4:16:00 AM	#268
The Agonist Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,015 Reflecting ourselves in the blood of all the beings we slay.	Why does it have HP Ice when it can learn Ice Beam (and in fact, you're even running it)? __________________ #

Oct 31st, 2012, 9:46:47 AM	#272
Masamune Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,486	Swift Swim + Drizzle is a banned combination on the same team. It's perfectly OK to have SS users on your team if you don't have a Drizzle user (presumably in the hope that the opponent will).

Oct 31st, 2012, 4:46:50 PM	#275
Lord of Bays Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 478	You do NOT OHKO Jirachi with no investment. You need at least 200 Atk EVs (neutral nature) to have a better than even chance to OHKO 4/0 Jirachi after a Dragon Dance.