The Dark Horse Project - BH Edition!

[Level 51]

Approved by DTC

*err I see the ladder reset :/ . Folks, you have until 15 November. Meanwhile, I will clear out the Hall Of Fame.*

The Dark Horse Project - BH Edition

As many of us can tell, Balanced Hackmons is a pretty centralised metagame. On every team you face, there's either a Giratina, a Blissey, a Deoxys... or all three. But have you ever tried to get away from the norm? Have you ever made a team without even considering any of these triply troublesome three threats? Of course not. But now you will! (Actually, you probably will use a Giratina, Blissey or Deoxys anyway. Oh well.)

Essentially, this challenge aims to discover the advantages that some less-used Pokemon bring to the table in Balanced Hackmons, especially if they are to be used in conjunction with some of the true giants of BH. By finding these Pokemon's niches in BH, perhaps we can make for a metagame with more variety.

Rules
totally not stolen from the OU thread.

• Each team must use at least TWO Dark Horse Pokemon, not one. This is because BH tends to be similarly easy whether one or no Pokemon on a player's team are not top-usage Pokemon.
  
  The term "Dark Horse Pokemon" is defined by the past month's statistics; anything below 5% usage (Percent, not RealPercent) is fair game. The NON-Dark Horses are:

 + ---- + ------------------ + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- + 
 | Rank | Pokemon            | Usage  | Percent | RealUse| RealPct | 
 + ---- + ------------------ + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- + 
 | 1    | Giratina           | 2362   | 46.533% | 1543   | 44.649% | 
 | 2    | Blissey            | 2326   | 45.823% | 1557   | 45.054% | 
 | 3    | Deoxys-Speed       | 1774   | 34.949% | 1482   | 42.884% | 
 | 4    | Arceus             | 1342   | 26.438% | 735    | 21.268% | 
 | 5    | Lugia              | 1228   | 24.192% | 799    | 23.120% | 
 | 6    | Shedinja           | 1202   | 23.680% | 813    | 23.525% | 
 | 7    | Slaking            | 1101   | 21.690% | 708    | 20.487% | 
 | 8    | Latios             | 918    | 18.085% | 570    | 16.494% | 
 | 9    | Groudon            | 811    | 15.977% | 593    | 17.159% | 
 | 10   | Mewtwo             | 807    | 15.898% | 533    | 15.423% | 
 | 11   | Kyurem-White       | 744    | 14.657% | 460    | 13.311% | 
 | 12   | Kyurem-Black       | 725    | 14.283% | 408    | 11.806% | 
 | 13   | Regigigas          | 688    | 13.554% | 419    | 12.124% | 
 | 14   | Deoxys-Attack      | 598    | 11.781% | 421    | 12.182% | 
 | 15   | Dialga             | 583    | 11.485% | 458    | 13.253% | 
 | 16   | Shuckle            | 569    | 11.210% | 429    | 12.414% | 
 | 17   | Reshiram           | 381    |  7.506% | 246    |  7.118% | 
 | 18   | Deoxys-Defense     | 353    |  6.954% | 269    |  7.784% | 
 | 19   | Ho-Oh              | 352    |  6.935% | 232    |  6.713% | 
 | 20   | Ferrothorn         | 313    |  6.166% | 243    |  7.032% | 
 | 21   | Chansey            | 307    |  6.048% | 201    |  5.816% | 
 | 22   | Registeel          | 292    |  5.753% | 175    |  5.064% | 
 | 23   | Gengar             | 291    |  5.733% | 194    |  5.614% | 
 | 24   | Palkia             | 257    |  5.063% | 145    |  4.196% |
 +-----------------------------------------------------------------+

• Only two Pokemon on your team have to be Dark Horse Pokemon.
• The recommended number of Dark Horse Pokemon to register with is two, so that the user can focus specifically on that Pokemon and how to best build a team around it. If you must have more than two, then please indicate that you are working with more than two. However, it is recommended that you use a separate team on a separate alt for each Dark Horse.
• You MUST use a new Pokemon Showdown! Username in order to restart your ladder ranking. Furthermore, the Dark Horse Pokemon that you are working with must remain on your team throughout your ladder run. The members of your team may shift around whenever you see fit, but the Dark Horse Pokemon must remain the same.
• Switching your focused Dark Horse Pokemon within this topic is acceptable. However, you must restart on the ladder with a new Pokemon Showdown! Username. You may also start separate alts for separate Dark Horse Pokemon, if you so desire.
• Please put all changes within your Registration Form. I update based on those forms, not individual posts randomly scattered throughout the topic.
• Do not start laddering for this project until you have registered within this topic.
• Please follow the rules. The Dark Horse Project isn't about being dishonest, it's about developing great teams for great Pokemon! As a result, cheaters will most likely end up being banned from the Hall of Fame.

Registration

Registration is open from the time this thread is posted. An ideal Registration form has been reproduced below; simply fill it in and you're good to go!

Originally Posted by Fat Registration Form

Pokemon Showdown! Alt:
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: (Please only name the Dark Horse Pokemon here)
Current Ladder Standing:
Hall Of Fame Rank:

For example, a registration form for me may look like this:

Example Ideal Registration Post

---

Pokemon Showdown! Alt: Level 52
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Regirock, Regice
Current Ladder Standing: 1000 (NB: this is the base ladder rating, kinda obviously.)
Hall Of Fame Rank: None as of yet!

<<If you have other alts with other teams, you should post them here too, for example:>>

Pokemon Showdown! Alt: Level 53
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Thundurus, Tornadus
Current Ladder Standing: 1000
Hall Of Fame Rank: None as of yet!

<<As the project progresses, text about your Dark Horse, as well as the rest of the team, should go here.>>

<<Pokemon Showdown! can now save replays, as demonstrated here. You can insert replays here; if you must use logs, they should be in hide tags.>>

Once you register, the challenge begins! You can start teambuilding and laddering as soon as you sign up. This challenge lasts until the 15th of November, barring any further PS! ladder resets. It is recommended that you post consistent ladder updates within your registration form. This will allow other users to see your progress and offer meaningful advice!

Discussion
Okay, this was copied wholesale, I admit it ._.

Besides the laddering challenge, this topic also serves a second purpose to initiate discussion on battlers' teambuilding and laddering progress; in this thread, you share your struggles and success, and reflect upon the Dark Horse Pokemon's niche in the current BH metagame. This thread is not only a place to show off successful challenges, but also a place to help each other achieve their goals via posting your problems and receiving quality input from others. Challengers should not hesitate to post their teams and/or team ideas to receive help from the community. You are allowed to post your thoughts and opinions. However, here is a "Do and Do Not" list that posters in this topic must adhere to:

• Do post and share sets for your Dark Horse Pokemon.
• Do provide teammates that you're using, with optional sets.
• Do pinpoint which threats in the metagame need to be covered.
• Do ask questions about the current BH metagame and teambuilding.
• Do give meaningful answers to asked questions. This can include suggested sets, teammates, and strategies.
• Do not post insignificant updates. Each post should be well thought and unique.
• Do not ask someone to make the team for you. Team building is YOUR job (and a fun one at that).
• Do give feedback on other's sets if asked to do so. However, do not belittle their attempts; try to provide constructive criticism.

The Hall Of Fame / Rewards

Now comes the competitive aspect of this project! If you manage to do exceedingly well and hit a rating of 1500 or more (trust me, it's not hard; at the time of writing, 66 people on the ladder qualified for this requirement), you may enter the Hall Of Fame as an individual who managed to overcome the challenge of using Pokemon the average player may think of as "inferior". Note that if you commonly flout rules and criticise other players' sets without intent of helping them, you may be denied a place in the hall of fame.

Once you reach the standards mentioned, please update your registration post with the following:

Originally Posted by Fat Hall Of Fame Application Form

Pokemon Showdown! Alt:
Dark Horse Pokemon:
Screenshot of Ranking:
Dark Horse Pokemon Complete Set: (NB: enter the ENTIRE set here.)

Furthermore, I believe DTC would be willing to offer some rewards for the champion(s) of this project. Besides entering the Hall Of Fame, there are some other targets for you to work towards, as outlined in the Other Rewards post.

Now, there is one final catch to this project. You see, only one of each Dark Horse Pokemon pair is allowed into the Hall of Fame per month. For example, only the first challenger who laddered to 1500 rating with a Jolteon/Regice combo will be accepted this month; any subsequent Jolteon/Regice-using challengers cannot enter the Hall of Fame until a new round begins next month (if, uh, it does begin). If you use Jolteon/Regirock and hit 1500, though, you are qualified to enter - as long as at least one of the Pokemon has not been used before, and all the Dark Horse Pokemon on your team that have been used before, have significantly different sets.

What is considered a significant change?

---

• Changing the HP EV from 252 to 248 doesn't count, nor changing, say, Psycho Cut to Zen Headbutt.
• A change in ability constitutes a significant change.
• A change in one or move key move(s) to a move with a completely different function usually constitutes a significant change; however, these will most likely be reviewed on a case-by-case basis.

That's where the competitive edge comes into play - You are racing against other users for a place in the Hall of Fame! Furthermore, the Hall of Fame ranking is based off of peak ladder ranking points, meaning the more points you score, the higher you'll be placed. So now that you know the rules, get registered and start team building! Best of luck. If you have any questions, send me a PM or VM. I hope to see you in the Hall of Fame.

[Level 51]

The Hall Of Fame

The Hall Of Fame showcases the abilities of the most competent trainers, as well as the masterpieces which are their Pokemon sets.

Do not think that you can simply rest on your laurels once you hit 1500 rating, though! Within the Hall Of Fame there are different ranks, providing a greater challenge for the most tenacious trainers.

Without further ado, the Hall Of Fame holds within its walls...

<<name>> indicates user has the required ranking but has not submitted their sets yet

Bronze Award ~ 1500 Rating
... no one (of course)

Silver Award ~ 1625 Rating
... no one (of course)

Gold Award ~ 1750 Rating
... no one (of course)

Platinum Award ~ 1875 Rating
user: DryBoo (yay~)

Ultimate Champion Award ~ 2000 Rating
user: DarkBlazeR O.O
user: Imanalt o.o

Good Luck, one and all! May your names forevermore (until this thread is deleted, anyways) line the Hall Of Fame!

[Level 51]

Registered Users:

1. Snowflakes [Shaymin-Sky/Shaymin-Sky/Steelix/Latias/Arceus-Ghost/Kyogre] ~ Status: Challenger
2. akela [Rampardos/Chandelure/Flareon] ~ Status: Challenger
3. Arcticblast [Regirock/Shaymin-Sky] ~ Status: Challenger
4. The_Eevee_General [Tyranitar/Escavalier/Latias] ~ Status: Challenger
5. lokt [Latias, Metagross] ~ Status: Challenger
6. DryBoo [Swinub, Archeops] ~ Status: Platinum Award (yay~)
7. DarkBlazR [Rhydon, Escavalier] ~ Status: ULTIMATE CHAMPION (woohoo~)
8. drakon136 [Latias, Swinub] ~ Status: Challenger
9. Wobble [Arceus-Ghost, Latias] ~ Status: Challenger
10. Imanalt [Tyranitar, Jirachi] ~ Status: ULTIMATE CHAMPION (woohoo~)

[Level 51]

Discussion
Copy copy copy! ^.^

Welcome to the "Learning and Discussion" section of the Dark Horse Project! I am "very excited" for what's going to take place here, which will mainly be to catalog any meaningful tidbits of advice for public use. Birkal apparently devised a list of questions that you can feel free to answer at any point. Remember, it's not just the answers to these questions that will get posted here; any meaningful advice that you give also has a shot of making it here! I hope this resource can be insightful and meaningful for anyone who's looking to improve their skills with Dark Horse Pokemon.

If you ever see a tidbit or piece of advice that you deem as valuable and would like to see posted here (as in, in this post), I'll consider it if you send me a PM with the necessary information. I'll also take questions that you'd like to see answered if you're willing to provide them and add them to the below list. Thanks for your help!

Questions for Discussion

Originally Posted by Fat Questions for Consideration, adapted from Birkal's Questions

How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project? What led you to choose the Pokemon you did? Did you have regrets or were you happy with your selection? If you chose more than 2 Dark Horse Pokemon, why did you do so?

How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon? Did you base your team around the Dark Horse or did it play some fundamental side-role? Why did you plan your team this way? What kind of teammates did you consider for or have on your team in previous iterations of it and why?

Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why? Does the element of surprise play a factor in your battles? Is it easier to fight with a "highly used" team or with Pokemon that are less common?

Do you think this Dark Horse Pokemon has potential in the standard BH metagame? Why? What does it check and/or counter? Could it be fit onto teams featuring different playstyles?

(For Hall of Fame members only) How did you reach the Hall of Fame? Was it easy or difficult? (gee, I wonder) Did having a Dark Horse Pokemon on your team benefit you? What advice would you give to those laddering with Dark Horse Pokemon?

(For Non-Hall of Fame members only) What was the most challenging aspect of this project? What did you learn the most from your experience with Dark Horse Pokemon? How has your learning from this project changed the way you battle?

Again, feel free to answer any or all of these questions! It can be anything from a few sentences to an essay. Sharing your learning and thoughts is an incredibly important part of this project. So get writing and keep on laddering!

[Level 51]

Other Rewards

In addition to the regular Hall Of Fame, the Dark Horse Project for BH offers some other rewards, as outlined below.

Most Creative Award

After each round, this award will be given to the person whose set the judges deem to be the most creative, while still being effective; useless gimmicks are unlikely to win this award.

Best Replay Award

In the mass of replays which are likely to be uploaded by users, they may personally highlight one replay each to be their submission for this award. The replay which showcases the highest quality of battling will get this award. Note that this award is not given to logs (sorry u.u)

Best Discussant

This is pretty self-explanatory: the person whose discussion leads to the most learning points and who generally contributes the most will be granted this award, even if they might not have entered the Hall Of Fame.

...and more coming soon if I can think of any more :P

[Snowflakes]

Pokemon Showdown! Alt: Winter Wonderland
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Shaymin-Sx2, Steelix, Latias, Arceus-Ghost, Kyogre
Current Ladder Standing: zilch
Hall Of Fame Rank: zippo

[akela]

Pokemon Showdown! Alt: Hathi
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Rampardos, Chandelure, Flareon
Current Ladder Standing: 1583
Hall Of Fame Rank: zippo

[Arcticblast]

I've been using the exact same team since the ladder restart and it has two Dark Horses on it already. I'm not sure if I'll have to make an alt anyway, but just in case:

Planned Pokemon Showdown! Alt: Darkticblast
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Regirock, Shaymin-S
Current Ladder Standing:
ACRE: 1537
Glicko2: 1762 ± 159 (provisional)
Hall of Fame Rank: I'm not famous stfu

[The_Eevee_General]

Pokemon Showdown! Alt: EeveeAdmiral
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Tyranitar, Escavalier, Latias
Current Ladder Standing: 1779

Hall Of Fame Rank: N/A

:3

How to beat 6 Imposter Bliss: http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ba...ackmons2705251
And another... http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ba...ackmons2706148
Tricky maneuvering: http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ba...ackmons2706316

Tyranitar @ Leftovers w/ Prankster
252 all, Adamant (+Atk ,-SpA)
-Substitute
-Swords Dance
-Crunch
-Drain Punch

Escavalier @ Leftovers w/ Flash Fire
252 all except 0 Spe, (+Atk, -Spe), 0 Spe IVs
-U-turn
-Gyro Ball
-Sacred Fire
-Punishment

Latias @ Soul Dew w/ Magic Bounce
252 all, (+SpD, -Atk)
-Substitute
-Quiver Dance
-Dragon Pulse
-Psyshock

[lokt]

Pokemon Showdown! Alt: Katrina
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Latias, Metagross
Current Ladder Standing: N/A
Hall Of Fame Rank: N/A
Are you going to put any deviation restrictions?

[Level 51]

Originally Posted by Fat lokt

Are you going to put any deviation restrictions?

Nope, not as far as I've planned. All ranks are based on ACRE.

[DryBoo]

I'm game for this!
Pokemon Showdown! Alt: Ivan the Terrible
Dark Horse Pokemon: (Swinub and Archeops)
Screenshot of Ranking: I'm 1000 since I haven't done anything yet..

[DarkBlazeR]

Pokemon Showdown! Alt: Manx
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Rhydon, Escavalier
Current Ladder Standing: 1000
Hall Of Fame Rank: N/A

[DarkBlazeR]

Apologies for the double post, but going to bump this thread as I've now definitely made Grandmaster (aka Ultimate Champion Award).

Pokemon Showdown! Alt: Manx
Dark Horse Pokemon: Rhydon, Escavalier
Screenshot of Ranking:



Dark Horse Pokemon Complete Sets:

Rhydon

---

Rhydon @ Eviolite
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Head Smash
- Earthquake
- Magic Coat

Escavalier

---

Escavalier @ Life Orb
Trait: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Trick Room
- Gyro Ball
- Sacred Fire
- Bolt Strike

I'll comment on the sets and answer the questions soon.

[Level 51]

okay, wtf
2 days of laddering and you do this
/me kills self

...but seriously, great job man. Thanks for actually participating actively (unlike others T.T)

[drakon136]

Pokemon Showdown! Alt: Dorkin
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Latias, SWINUB
Current Ladder Standing: 1479
Hall Of Fame Rank: None

fuck illusion
swinub > moody
shell smash > all
swinub < rapid spin
fuck misses
95% = 5%
almost there!!!

[Wobble]

Pokemon Showdown! Alt: WobbleDHBH
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Arceus-Ghost, Latias
Current Ladder Standing: 1000
Hall Of Fame Rank: None

[Arizona]

In as PS! alt "ArizonaBHDH"
"Dark Horse" Pokemon: Regirock, Jirachi
Current Ladder Standing 1945
Hall of Fame Rank: Platinum

Checked out this meta some months ago, glad to see it's still around, albeit underpopulated.

I'm 2060 on my main with this same team, so I should be back today or tomorrow after grinding the new alt; the match finding is really slow.


Edit: The ladder difficulty seems to have picked up, or perhaps the sample size is much to low in this meta. Regardless, I laddered up a while, but I'm just finding the team too stale and the battle finder too slow to keep going right now. At least I made it back up to platinum; it's just too bad I didn't see this thread before getting to 2060 with my main, lol.
Maybe I'll come back once more to hit the final level.

I posted the sets (the whole team, in fact) in the RMT sub forums, so check that out if you're interested. I will add that the reasons to use Jirachi are: Dragon resist, Fighting neutrality, and 100 Speed, which is a pretty good niche and definitely viable.

Oh, and a cool game between myself and another poster on this thread, despite some obvious misplays on my part:
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ba...ackmons3936099

[Arcticblast]

Oh yeah, I was supposed to post my sets...

I don't have my team on this computer though :(

[Wobble]

Hey Dark.

Since Rhydon is so slow wouldn't it be best to 0 speed it so.


A: It can back up Esca under Trick Room

B: It can ensure that it get sand up when switched into dual weather starters.

[DarkBlazeR]

Originally Posted by Fat Wobble

Hey Dark.

Since Rhydon is so slow wouldn't it be best to 0 speed it so.


A: It can back up Esca under Trick Room

B: It can ensure that it get sand up when switched into dual weather starters.

Rhydon is pretty damn slow anyway so it doesn't really make any difference if I run 0 speed or not. I mean, there's no reason not to run 0 speed, but at the same time it won't have a direct benefit like Escavalier getting a stronger Gyro Ball.

[Imanalt]

im using tyranitar and jirachi
alt: drorrock
current ladder standing: 2078

SO i did it: (and with stall too :o)

pic

---

sets

---

Jirachi @ lum berry
Prankster
-haze
-drain punch (this was purely because getting my ttar copied was a pain)
-recover
-spikes

Tyranitar @ lum berry
Magic bounce
-sacred fire/toxic/toxic spikes
-crunch
-rapid spin
-recover

[DryBoo]

...

---

balancedhackmons Top 100

Name ACRE GXE Glicko2
1 DryBoo649 1999 90.8 2101 ± 72
2 Varfor 1938 88.9 2047 ± 78
3 Fun with Alts 1932 89.2 2060 ± 91
4 Level 51 1916 87.0 1997 ± 58
5 aragornbird 1901 86.6 1988 ± 62
6 Ivan the Terrible 1892 86.4 1984 ± 65
7 yoshikiller 1872 85.0 1954 ± 58
8 PokermansCoach 1869 83.6 1925 ± 40
9 Alan T. Hick 1789 83.2 1923 ± 95
10 NoelYoshi 1788 82.6 1911 ± 87
11 Kairos 1777 81.4 1889 ± 80

Well I can't take a screenshot so thats the best I can do. I'd keep going but I starting to hate my swinub set, but more on that in a bit. Here's the sets:

...

---

Archeops
Jolly @Focus Sash
Magic Guard
-Head Smash
-Brave Bird
-Endeavor
-Magic Coat
I love this thing. I outspeeds a lot of stuff and then kills them with head smash. Just two flaws, head smash has 80acc (FU Hax) and Status kills him

...

---

Swinub
Nature is whatever @Wide Lens/Lum Berry/Shell Bell
Sturdy
-Leech Seed
- Block
-Perish Song
-Magic Coat/Endeavor
Ok the first slashes are what I used but thats because I hate hax. The whole point is to be able to be ghosts that normally wall swinub to hell back and kill stuff with recover. Unfortunately the only two ghosts seen are Giratina and Gengar and Giratina and they almost also carry a way to beat this anyway. It still is better than Shednija IMO...

So their you go. Btw my main account is number one, yay!

[Arizona]

Originally Posted by Fat DryBoo

...

---

Archeops
Jolly @Focus Sash
Magic Guard
-Head Smash
-Brave Bird
-Endeavor
-Magic Coat
I love this thing. I outspeeds a lot of stuff and then kills them with head smash. Just two flaws, head smash has 80acc (FU Hax) and Status kills him

...

---

Swinub
Nature is whatever @Wide Lens/Lum Berry/Shell Bell
Sturdy
-Leech Seed
- Block
-Perish Song
-Magic Coat/Endeavor
Ok the first slashes are what I used but thats because I hate hax. The whole point is to be able to be ghosts that normally wall swinub to hell back and kill stuff with recover. Unfortunately the only two ghosts seen are Giratina and Gengar and Giratina and they almost also carry a way to beat this anyway. It still is better than Shednija IMO...

I like the Magic Guard + recoil abuse. That's probably close to Archeop's ideal set. I'm sure you already considered Life Orb and another move over endeavor like Flare Blitz/EQ/HJK for Steels or even Coil. Considering the power of recoil moves, I would expect to see a bit more of this concept on the ladder.

LolSwinub>Shedinja. Well I guess you won't instantly die, so in you may be right. Props for going with the road less traveled by, of course. Ultimately I fear you'll just be beaten by a different set of counters, but people prepare more for Shedinja than Swinub.

[Faylion]

Pokemon Showdown! Alt: Faylion
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Kyogre, Latias
Current Ladder Standing: 1000
Hall Of Fame Rank: None as of yet!