np: BW OU Suspect Testing Round 7 - Ice Ice Baby

[PttP]

favorite kyurem-b moveset:

Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 56 Spd / 252 HP / 120 SDef / 80 Def
Careful Nature
- Substitute
- Dragon Tail
- Hone Claws / Earth Power / Ice Beam
- Roost

this thing is a replica of the set i used with kyurem when it was uu way back when. it is a boss cause it destroys rain and makes rain wish it was never born. seriously you can set up on a good majority of rain -- you can even set up on tornadus-t by bluffing a choice scarf set. if the rain team doesnt have ferrothorn then you utterly destroy them. if it does then thats not a real problem cause you can just switch out to your counter while they attempt to break your sub with gyro ball -- giving you free reign to DESTROY. if you pair this guy up with wobbuffet then you destroy rain even better, because you know that your opponent will attempt to perish song kyurem-b and you can just switch to wobbuffet and win the weather war. give it entry hazard support and you gonna win. plus this thing is bulky as f so even if you arent facing rain (which you probably will be) its still useful!! earth power if you wanna wreck jirachi but i like hone claws since it makes you super powerful zzzzzzzz

edit: oh yeah the ev spread sucks but whatever i just wanted to make it bulky as possible while also outspeeding tentacruel in order to set up da sub

[tehy]

I don't think i really made any ridiculous assumptions. Haxorus and kyurem B are both physical dragons and have similar speeds;it ends there. Kyurem B, IMO ,is haxorus 2.0, not 1.5. The sheer versatility means you can't just go skarm trolol and GG;you can't even always sacrifice something, although it's a good bet. I guess priority weakness sucks, but i still think it's WAY better than haxorus.

I think i responded to your points.

And what was up with the "So many"? There were 2-3 assumptions/points, at best.
I don't brag about skarmory. Skarmory is like a subcontractor that i hire to do work i, as a main contractor, cannot. I will recommend him to people and explain what he can do, but i don't care if he does well or not, as long as he does well for me.

Fave kyu-B set is CB, because it's less scary. For reals,it's got to be a Sub/Ice beam/Outrage/Earth Power set. Basically, scizor or bust, with a side of Gyro ball Ferrothorn.

Fave kyu-B team is anything that i can set up hazards on and isn't threatening. But fo' reals, a good stall team.

Come to think of it, a volt-turn team. Blocks SR and gives him free switches for his KO's on bitches. If someone does that for real, we might see his bitch ass banned.


Not to keep this running on, but in PO kyu-B is actually getting so low usage as to maybe drop to UU, usage-wise. Ladder sucks, sure, but sorta kills my point.

[Aldaron*]

My only preferred set after qualifying and bothering to lose enough with Kyurem-B to try it out (lol):

Kyurem-B@Expert Belt
252 spatk / 252 speed hasty
~Dragon Claw
~Ice Beam
~Earth Power
~Focus Blast

Yea, that's 0 atk evs and -def nature and no outrage...I used this solely to set up my other sweepers and I hated losing it early game when locked into an outrage. I just used this to lower Jirachi / Ferro (using EP and FB respectively) for Double Dance Thund-t and doing things like switching it into Politoed / Tenta (and praying for no Burn fuck Scald and fuck Gamefreak for making that terrible move) and then playing mind games with the opponent cause he knew something was getting hurt.

Again, sole purpose was to punch small holes in opposition to let my Thund-t set up...iirc the only things that can take this are WoW Jellicent / Mew / Sableye...and no fucking Jellicent is staying in on this unless it knows it doesn't have Fusion Bolt lol, so the first time I play someone I'm ok. Even Sableye is hurt by Ice Beam though so as long as you have some way to handle bulky Mew (hello Genesect), you should be good.

I know people have been really making a big deal of Kyurem-B's outrages but...lol, as an offensive player (in a notably offensive metagame), sacrificing something to take out something isn't a "liability," it's literally expected every single game. When I see opposing Kyurem-B outrage, I jump for joy, cause it just means I sac something and take out Kyu-B easily. I'd honestly recommend not using Outrage that much in a meta as offensive as this (as counterintuitive as that may sound)...

Even though I didn't use the Sub set much, I'd say the sets that scare me the most are Sub sets and 4 attack (non outrage) sets cause both put the onus on me as a player to make the best move or get wrecked by Kyurem-B (who also doesn't have nearly as bad a movepool as the other side has been claiming it does).

[Lavos Spawn]

Originally Posted by Fat Aldaron

I just used this to lower Jirachi / Ferro (using EP and FB respectively) for Double Dance Thund-t and doing things like switching it into Politoed / Tenta (and praying for no Burn fuck Scald and fuck Gamefreak for making that terrible move)

Funny how that works. You weren't complaining about Lava Plume back in 2007, now were you? :] (this is a joke, I've gotten 3 PMs about it...)

Interesting, double dancing Thundurus-T...what's your set for that? I would assume you're running NP/Agility/Thunder/HP Ice @ LO, but I can't be certain...maybe Grass Knot? Please elaborate, this sounds like something I'd use.

[bubbly]

Off topic, but Lava Plume doesn't hit supereffectively the only type which is immune to it's Burn chance. It also gets low distribution, almost exclusively limited to Fire types, which as we know is a terrible defensive typing compared to Water.

Back on topic, defensive Kyurem-B is really great, especially the Dragon Tail set balla posted. I'm not sure though if it isn't outclassed by regular Kyurem, which can SubRoost with Pressure.

[yaya0]

I expect even Ferrothorn to be less used than it has been predicted; Kyu-B's Outrage may not be a threat, but more Fire-types are the logical result of a Kyu-B unban.

[ske7ch6336]

With support, he rips through teams. Stealth Rock really hurts him, because a bullet punch could lower him to near KO range, and his defenses are super thin considering the vast amount of Ice type weaknesses, all which are common in OU.

To make up for his lack of Speed, I use SubPass Ninjask with leftovers, it at least gives him a x2.5 speed boost to his low speed, and if Ninjask's Sub survives a hit (which is rare) I can get a Swords Dance in there, which is always nice. There is a few problems with this set though, it is not golden.

-Stealth Rock. Stealth rock drops his HP down to 75%, which a Banded Scizor can OHKO with a Bullet Punch. Genesect can OHKO Kyu-B with a Flash Cannon. He needs to get in there before hazards are placed.

-Politoed. Politoed may fall weak to Kyu-B's extremely powerful Fusion Bolt, but one Scald can make a mockery of his super high attack with a burn. Politoed's Perish Song is passed on through SubPass, which means if you are hit by Perish Song, you are left with a slow and and not so bulky ball and chain.

-Steel Types. Steel types resist every single one of Kyu-B's physical STAB's, which means even if he survives a Bullet Punch from Scizor, he can easily kill him the next turn. Kyurem-B cannot learn Fire Blast nor Flamethrower to back up his also high 120 SpA, which means he is essentially screwed when it comes to Scizor and Genesect.

-Movepool. His small movepool really hurts him. Kyu-B gets Dragon Claw/Outrage, Fusion Bolt, Roost as a recovery, and NO Ice type physical STAB's. If Kyu-B is put on a hail team he can send of nasty Blizzards, but no physical Ice STABS really hurts his game.

In my opinion, while really fun to use when he works (Which is only 25% of the time), if Kyurem-B were to join OU, he should join his fellow pre-self Kyurem in the BL tier. Call me crazy, but he really isn't good in OU either. Even if he can't play in OU, PLEASE take this poor Poke out of Uber. He is probably getting crushed in there.

[Katakiri]

I might as well share what I've been using now that the clock is running down.

Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 28 Atk / 252 SAtk / 228 Spd
Mild Nature
- Outrage / Fusion Bolt
- Blizzard
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Fire]

I've brought this point up in another thread, but I'll quote it here.

Kyurem-Black has Base 120 Special Attack which comes just shy of Kyurem's 130 but just powerful enough to make the difference not too noticeable unless you're just throwing around Blizzards and Draco Meteors. What's more is Kyurem-Black's Physical Defense is 10 points higher than Kyurem's. The two forms are interchangeable with Kyurem's current on-site sets except for one thing: Teravolt.

Earth Power hits Levitating Pokemon, HP Fire will hit Heatran and break its Air Balloon, and Thick Fat (looking at you Mamoswine) will be nullified. It also has BoltBeam if you need it.

The final nail in Kyurem's coffin is that Special Attacking Kyurem-Black is the Spanish Inquisition of Pokemon. You're not going to send in your Blissey on a Kyurem-Black; Heatran, maybe, but until you know all 4 of Kyurem-Black's moves, no one wants to send in their Special Walls on it.

The two things Kyurem does better than Kyurem-Black is PP stall with Pressure and throw out Blizzards/Draco Meteors. But even then you have to decided if PP stalling or the 10 Base Points are worth giving up all of those perks.

With all that said, this set is built for a Hail team. It's just Mixed Kyurem but with HP Fire over DMeteor and a far better ability. Fusion Bolt just depends on how much Rain teams annoy you but Outrage is mostly for hitting Blissey and whatnot; just like the on-site Kyurem set.

The other set I was testing is a Sun Kyurem-B.

Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 52 HP / 56 SAtk / 252 SDef / 148 Spd
Gentle Nature
- Fusion Bolt
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Roost

Not quite as potent as the Hail set, but it is built to help deal with Rain threats and when Rain is around it does its job fantastically; not so much against Sand though. Of course its shared Rock weakness with Ninetales demands support but I've ran it with Landorus-T and never had the Rock weakness be an issue because of it.


I'm not at all saying those sets are better than the physical sets. I wanted to see if Kyurem-B truly out-classes Kyurem as a Mixed Attacker and I found that it absolutely does and can very well replace Kyurem as a purely Special Attacker as well. Teravolt is just that good.

I find that it's still not broken at all in the metagame, (I've of course used the Physical sets as well) but I will admit that it would be questionable if Genesect wasn't so common. I feel that it will take the same place that Lucario has always taken; it's a great Pokemon but it needs a fair bit of support to do anything...a lot like BW1 Kyurem now that I think about it.

[ElectivireRocks]

Genesect is the least of Kyurem-B's problems. Unless Genesect carries its Steel STAB, which dramatically lowers its coverage which is one of its strongest points, it will always lose 1 on 1 against Kyurem-B.

Kyu-B's power and bulk are fine - in fact they're too much for OU to handle because it has no safe switch ins even without set up. Kyu-B's only real problem is its SR weakness, which puts a limitation to its hit-and-run tactics.

[PK Gaming]

Oh, I never posted my favorite Kyurem-8 set.

Introducing:

Kyurem-8 @ Choice Scarf
Adamant
-Outrage
-Fusion Bolt
-Dragon Claw
-Don't care (Earth Power / Ice Beam / etc)

I used this as a surprise revenge killer / lategame sweeper. It was cool because it's unboosted Outrages are capable of pretty OHKOing nearly everything single offensive Pokemon in the game. I wasn't using it on a regular team though, this set worked on DragMag teams. On regular teams, I used CB (which wasn't very good) and ballabrown24's sub set (which is pretty awesome).

[Lavos Spawn]

Originally Posted by Fat PK Gaming

Oh, I never posted my favorite Kyurem-8 set.

Introducing:

Kyurem-8 @ Choice Scarf
Adamant
-Outrage
-Fusion Bolt
-Dragon Claw
-Don't care (Earth Power / Ice Beam / etc)

I used this as a surprise revenge killer / lategame sweeper. It was cool because it's unboosted Outrages are capable of pretty OHKOing nearly everything single offensive Pokemon in the game. I wasn't using it on a regular team though, this set worked on DragMag teams. On regular teams, I used CB (which wasn't very good) and ballabrown24's sub set (which is pretty awesome).

Yeah this set's pretty great, I still prefer Sub + 3 Attacks but this one also has a lot of potential. 170 base Attack is more than enough for a Scarf revenge killer, and base 95 Speed makes for an easy revenge kill on common +1 sweepers such as Dragonite. Its lack of any substantial coverage is disappointing, but to be honest, Dragon + Electric isn't that bad, it does a good number on most of the OU metagame. Obviously pretty well walled by Heatran (and Steelix!), so I tend to run Earth Power in the last slot to catch those two unawares. Good set, thanks for posting it.

[Tobes]

Kyurem-B @ Life Orb
Teravolt
Naive 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
- Outrage
- Fusion Bolt
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power

This is what I used for the majority of my first half of my run on the suspect ladder. It was being supported by SubCharge Magnezone, an idea that had been discussed in OU staff's channel, with the reasoning that teams that didn't have Ferrothorn would have difficulty taking on Kyurem-B and teams that did would have to deal with SubCharge Magnezone. This obviously wasn't as good as practice as in theory, but this set was still fairly effective. It could get in on something slow like Politoed and either kill something with Outrage, or early in the game eliminate, say, Heatran with Earth Power (or weaken Jirachi) or kill Landorus-T with Ice Beam, opening up sweeps for Scarf Salamence or Scarf Latios. Or it could kill just about anything else with Outrage. It's also deceptively bulky, taking things like Scarf Keldeo's Secret Sword and retaliating with Fusion Bolt. In this metagame, though, I often found myself just saccing Kyurem-B when I was in trouble, so I eventually dropped it, as many others did.

Speaking of DragMag, something that seems to be catching on is the inclusion of Kingdra in those teams. Now, this worked out in practice just as well as it did in theory. Kingdra destroys rain offense teams without Ferrothorn, and Magnezone both gets rid of Ferrothorn for Kingdra and destroys some rain teams that do use Ferrothorn. Kingdra is actually very anti-metagame right now, just because of how badly it can bone rain teams. If you're only looking to the "bone rain" aspect, then Choice Specs is your most reliable set, but if you're like me and want Kingdra to have some utility:


Kingdra @ Life Orb
Swift Swim
Modest 24 HP / 252 SpA / 232 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Hydro Pump / Surf
- Hidden Power Fire / Surf
- Rain Dance

Still dicks over most rain offense but can also pull a surprise lategame sweep against other teams. Also great when sun teams think they can just sack Ninetales and sweep with Venusaur later. (This is a mistake, NEVER sacrifice Ninetales if your opponent has a Kingdra or something that looks like it might change the weather.) The Life Orb recoil is a bit annoying though, since Kingdra can have trouble taking a hit and then getting off a decent number of attacks. It can also catch things like Genesect, Scizor, and Ferrothorn off guard with Hidden Power Fire, making things easier for its Dragon-type teammates.

[Bloo**]

The voting thread is now up, so GO VOTE!

[Lavos Spawn]

[The Dark Hero]

Well Haxorus, time to say good-bye to OU...

Well, maybe not, but in all seriousness, I'm expecting even more people to run Terrakion, Scizor, and Genesect (LOL, as if its usage could get higher.) and Genesect to start running Flash Cannon to hit it Super Effectively.

[Sacaen]

Originally Posted by Fat The Dark Hero

Well Haxorus, time to say good-bye to OU...

Haxorus still has things that differentiate him from Kyurem-B such as

Mold Breaker Earthquake
Taunt
Dragon Dance
Swords Dance
Fighting Neutrality
Steel Neutrality
Rock (and by extension, SR) Neutrality
Can take weaker ice attacks (as opposed to many other dragons being 4x weak)

On the other hand Kyurem-B has better bulk not factoring in typing, higher attack, and mixed capabilities, as well as being a fabulous smash-pass recipient.

Not trying to say Haxorus is better or worse than Kyurem-B, but Outrage power isn't everything.

[Lord of Bays]

Actually, Kyurem-B is straight up NEUTRAL to Ice-type attacks. Haxorus is still weak to them.

[Dice]

I dislike Kyurem-B as a SmashPass recipient. Not only are you weak to the most common priority, but its coverage isn't even that great and you need like HP Fire or Freeze Shock (lol) to hit Ferrothorn. Garchomp is much better imo with its great bulk, typing, and coverage.

[PDC]

Of course Garchomp still has nothing on the almighty Jirachi for SmashPass....

[Dice]

It is a self-sufficient boosting sweeper that works in effectively in SmashPass teams if you cannot get a Pass off. Jirachi is the boss probably, but Garchomp serves other purposes as well ^__^

[Stone RG]

Well since today all this ends (like kyurem b is being banned lol), id like to ask what might the next OU suspect be, i think we should test excadrill, and deoxys s and thundurus just to se how will they impact on the meta (thats just an idea dont hate).

[Shurtugal]

As for smashpass, Sash Genesect is the best recipient out there right now, at least, imo. It kos just about the entire metagame, and since SmashPass is arguably good at keeping rocks off the field until mid game, chances are you'll have sash in tact. Kyreum-B, however good a recipient, is a bit too weak to priority / lacks coverage, which is what you look for in a smashpass recipient (examples are Conk and Rachi, which have amazing movepools, have amazing resistances or bulk to common priority, just like the aforementioned Genesect).

[AfroThunderRule]

Originally Posted by Fat Stone RG

Well since today all this ends (like kyurem b is being banned lol), id like to ask what might the next OU suspect be, i think we should test excadrill, and deoxys s and thundurus just to se how will they impact on the meta (thats just an idea dont hate).

I think after this they're going to test some of the guys currently in OU, like Genesect.

[cjrocker]

Originally Posted by Fat Stone RG

Well since today all this ends (like kyurem b is being banned lol), id like to ask what might the next OU suspect be, i think we should test excadrill, and deoxys s and thundurus just to se how will they impact on the meta (thats just an idea dont hate).

According to this post, it looks like we'll be testing suspects in the current meta first. I would personally love to see Excadrill and Thundurus come back before seeing Genesect go, but maybe that's just me.

edit: ninja'd

[Stone RG]

Well Genesect deserves a test definetely, but i personally dont get why cant we test more than 1 thing at the same time.