October 2012 OU / Suspect Stats

[Electrolyte]

What surprised me more was not Genesect being so high but more of everything else being so low. I'm quite surprised Scizor's still around to play with G being so popular; but hey Lando-T is as 3%. That means time for some hard core Dark Horsing to abuse this rare, unjustified occurrence. Oh and
| 42 | Metagross | 41411 | 5.348% | 33714 | 5.387% |
| 43 | Keldeo | 40073 | 5.175% | 31355 | 5.010% |

HOW THE FUCK IS METAGROSS HIGHER THAN KELDEO

[Magik]

Urm.. Genesect is a real pain on teambuilding (some could argue that so does Volcarona or Dragonite but Gene is just so darn diverse its hard to counter all its sets)..
It's just too good without any real downside.
The Suspect stats show how good it is o_o
50% like gosh darn it, it needs to gooo..

Scizor at 5? Is it just me because I dont see any scizors anymore..?
Poor ninetails at 15 not even top 10 this time
I see why celebi is so low, its not that its underrated it just sucks right now with all of Genesects u-turning shennaningans

| 105 | Virizion | 7545 | 0.974% | 5871 | 0.938% |
| 107 | Meloetta | 7433 | 0.960% | 5584 | 0.892% |
aww poor virizion and meloeeta (one of my fav pokes btw D;) not even in the top 100..

[FaceFaceFace]

Originally Posted by Fat malomyotismon

genesect is reasonably predictable. Right now I just wnat to sit back and watch what happens. If genesect is gone, expect a massive back lash from the insane amount of mons genesect keeps in check, either way I hope people punish the voters than ban genesect, because at this point I see only a few people that don't have bias against this insect and punishment shall be releasing the full power of the many dragons and mons that are stopped from genesect.

The problem with Genesect is that you (kinda) know what it is running, but there is just no way to stop it. And when you think you know what it's running...BAM Choice Band Zen Headbutt kills Terrakion.

And to be honest, I don't see how the increased usage of 'an insane amount of mons that Genesect checks' is a bad thing; it's just a sign of Genesect's omni-potence and the over-centralisation of the metagame around it as a result.


| 46 | Latias | 37620 | 4.858% | 29448 | 4.705% |

| 26 | Latias | 2042 | 9.041% | 1773 | 9.102% |

Latias is OU's best kept secret!

[GoliathGarchomp]

Wow it's like suspect and normal are completly different meta's. Good to see pokemon like Keldeo, Tor-T, Deo-D and Terrakion getting the usuage they deserve in suspect compared to normal.

Oh and did I mention Genesect at like 50% of usage. And here I was in my last post in the regular statistics thread saying that I dont think he's that bad and then I see this. However I still stand by that statment and since many people used the same team's to get reqs that would affect it. But I dont want to start any arguments especially since I only got back into this metta this month and dont play much showdown since after a while it get's lagy and frustrating to play so basically my opinion means nothing.
Also just wondering what affect Shadow Tag Chandelure would have on Genesect? But then again thats probably another pokemon to be suspected when released.

[Ghostbone]

Originally Posted by Fat GoliathGarchomp

Also just wondering what affect Shadow Tag Chandelure would have on Genesect? But then again thats probably another pokemon to be suspected when released.

A SR weak mon that can only come in on flamethrower/ice beam, and can't stop Rock Polish sets...it will be nice to kill scarf genesect after it kills salamence or something, but it's not really too different to magnezone in that regard. (chandelure will be way more popular when it's released though...if it isn't banned really quickly)

[alphatron]

It dose not even make sense, bad players just spam all the best pokemon in a vein attempt to win, like in 4th gen. Since when has smogon been an excuse to play for fun, rather than the sport of competition?

I logged in just to respond to this. People have been playing on pokemon simulators for fun (of which smogon's servers are the most popular) for a few years. You can prove this by looking at how high BLAZE charizard is in the ubers statistics. It isn't good and nobody with any level of skill actually thinks that it is.

[Gary2346]

Originally Posted by Fat Electrolyte

What surprised me more was not Genesect being so high but more of everything else being so low. I'm quite surprised Scizor's still around to play with G being so popular; but hey Lando-T is as 3%. That means time for some hard core Dark Horsing to abuse this rare, unjustified occurrence. Oh and
| 42 | Metagross | 41411 | 5.348% | 33714 | 5.387% |
| 43 | Keldeo | 40073 | 5.175% | 31355 | 5.010% |

HOW THE FUCK IS METAGROSS HIGHER THAN KELDEO

WHAT?? I didn't even see that! I have played Showdown quite a bit these past few months, and I've only seen like 4-6 Metagross total, but I've seen a ton of Keldeo. That's really surprising, I thought Metagross was in jeopardy of dropping down a tier because I hardly ever saw one. Well, I guess the statistics don't lie.

[ChrisTehAwesome]

Obviously Genesect usage is quite bloated, he might need testing for sure.
Terrakion at #3 in suspect is interesting, I know I personally used a lead set, as it beat Kyurem-B just by existing. Also my teams never seem complete without a Scizor-Genesect core. Maybe that's just me.

[Vemane]

What people aren't taking into account is the fact that genesect saw hyper increased usage mainly as a chomp counter/revenge killer considering it was his suspect.

If anything, genesect makes a great offensive staple on a team.

However, it can be outsped by most scarf pokes, worn down easily, and rarely ever sweeps a well-built team.

It is a fantastic "glue" of sorts, but it is nothing more. Easy to fit onto a team and a great team player.

But that does not, by any means, make it broken.

[ThePillsburyDoughBoy]

Originally Posted by Fat Vemane

What people aren't taking into account is the fact that genesect saw hyper increased usage mainly as a chomp counter/revenge killer considering it was his suspect.

It was kyurem-b's suspect test not garchomp's.

Originally Posted by Fat Vemane

However, it can be outsped by most scarf pokes, worn down easily, and rarely ever sweeps a well-built team.

I don't know why you are saying that Genesect is unable to sweep well built teams; the Rock Polish set is a very formidable sweeper, perhaps one of the best in OU. You can spam powerful Download boosted attacks early game to weaken your own checks, then unpredictably pull off a Rock Polish if you are carrying a Focus Sash/Expert Belt. Even offensive teams carrying Terrakion will fall to Giga Drain. Resistant to priority, outspending all scarfers, great coverage, an sp. Atk boost, and unpredictability what's not to love about it?

Even if you do not run Rock Polish, Scarfsect can still sweep late game since it has such a large variety of coverage. Bug Buzz is very powerful and is another tool you can use late game. However

Originally Posted by Fat Vemane

But that does not, by any means, make it broken.

Genesect's is so good to the point (imho) of being broken because it can enable so many sweeps for other Pokemon on the team whether through providing opportunities to setup with Scarf U-turn, wall breaking with the Specs set, or luring with Expert Belt/Banded set.

[NoUserName]

Originally Posted by Fat Electrolyte

What surprised me more was not Genesect being so high but more of everything else being so low. I'm quite surprised Scizor's still around to play with G being so popular; but hey Lando-T is as 3%. That means time for some hard core Dark Horsing to abuse this rare, unjustified occurrence. Oh and
| 42 | Metagross | 41411 | 5.348% | 33714 | 5.387% |
| 43 | Keldeo | 40073 | 5.175% | 31355 | 5.010% |

HOW THE FUCK IS METAGROSS HIGHER THAN KELDEO

Because Metagross counters Tornadus-T and Keldeo dies to him.

Tornadus-T should be banned.

And also because the fact that it is underrated, low-used things will be lower because they are forgotten and Tornadus-T everywhere, and also, intelligent machines are cooler than ponies. (Which is a bit strange because Keldeo has a cooler-useless form only made for make kids buy the game and shout "Look at my (useless) Keldeo with a horn!")

And Metagross one of the typical pokemon that noobs players who play only for fun will likely use.

I am looking forward to see 1337 statistics of OU. I am sure that Gene and Deo-D will be higher in the table.

[Bent1ey]

Originally Posted by Fat Vemane

But that does not, by any means, make it broken.

Frankly, at 50% and outdoing even Polytoed in the usage department -who at least gets the excuse of enable many lesser pokemon to have their place in the tier-, it could be be the suckiest pokemon but it needs to go. I'm entirely open to ban something else first to see if the usage goes down, but I heavily doubt it. Simply put, Genesect is so much better than other pokemon that it thins the format down, which is the exact opposite argument of the one that allows weather to run rampant -it's powerful but allows the use of pokemon that wouldn't shine otherwise-. Having Drizzle and Genesect in the format at the same time seems like a contradiction, but most of all, Genesect dumbs down the format. I don't really think is broken, but it has a negative impact in the choices that are done in teambuilding. A healthy meta is supposed to have variety and Genesect at 50% is obviously affecting that.

[/B/utterfree]

Originally Posted by Fat Bent1ey

Frankly, at 50% and outdoing even Polytoed in the usage department -who at least gets the excuse of enable many lesser pokemon to have their place in the tier-, it could be be the suckiest pokemon but it needs to go. I'm entirely open to ban something else first to see if the usage goes down, but I heavily doubt it. Simply put, Genesect is so much better than other pokemon that it thins the format down, which is the exact opposite argument of the one that allows weather to run rampant -it's powerful but allows the use of pokemon that wouldn't shine otherwise-. Having Drizzle and Genesect in the format at the same time seems like a contradiction, but most of all, Genesect dumbs down the format. I don't really think is broken, but it has a negative impact in the choices that are done in teambuilding. A healthy meta is supposed to have variety and Genesect at 50% is obviously affecting that.

I agree with most of this, and would like to point out that because of Genesect and Deoxys-D, weatherless is currently dominating pretty heavily. That is, if I remember Antar's stats correctly.

[flea]

I am very surpised to see Ninetales at #15 with only about 10% usage, and even less in the Suspect metagame. Yes, rain is the dominant weather at this point, but Lavos' sun team alone I feel like I run into some variant of that (Gene+Tales+Duggy+Chlorophyll Poke+Banded Poke+Xatu) everywhere I go on the ladder, and in the hands of a good player, sun WILL be up. And sun, as the OU viability thread says (and I heartily agree) is actually much easier to abuse (it has more perks) simply because of Chlorophyll, it's just so much harder to keep up. Just a thought.

I agree that almost everything that's not named keldeo or tornadus-t (or lol toxicroak or other stuff like that) is better in sun than in weatherless so i see that as a little weird why the best players aren't using sun. Maybe it just proves how OP rain is right now that something that's as good as sun is getting the cold shoulder.

There are ways to keep sun up and sweep with Venusaur with your eyes closed...strange that there's not many people trying that

[PenguinX]

Biggest issue with sun atm is the popularity of Dugtrio on rain teams. Even though Tornadus-T is somewhat crippled in sun, drought teams generally have few options to tank a Hurricane and even those that do check Tornadus-T decently get screwed by Dugtrio on a switch-in. SDef Rotom-W, Zapdos, Jirachi, Bronzong and Skarmory make-up the list of good Tornadus-T switch-ins but sun teams are generally already very tight for teamslots given they almost always require Ninetales + Dugtrio + Venusaur + Spinner / Xatu just to be effective. Add to this the fact that the 2nd most popular team on the suspect ladder was dragmag with stuff like Dragonite and Latios and its not hard to see why sun has fallen from grace a little.

The best sun team I saw in this suspect round was just standard GeneSun with Zapdos over Victini / Volcarona, but even then this is very weak to Specs Politoed, Keldeo and ScarfMence, which were very prominent in the rain offense and dragmag-plagued suspect ladder.

[Parappa Da Sneak]

Look at dis gene rain. Don't rush to ban it though, why not re-evaluate the metagame from the beginning due to all the new changes?
Bring back blaziken. doryuuzu, shandera. Maybe these pokemon are still too good. But banned under extremely different circumstances, there is no way you can say that for sure. But considering all 3 check genesect and boost the other weathers/weatherless, it would be fun to see

[Arcticblast]

It's not Doryuuzu and Shandera, it's Excadrill and Chandelure. The English games have been out for a long time now, use the English names. Chandelure was never banned anyway... How would Shadow Tag Chandelure check Genesect anyway? I mean, it could trap it on a locked move and KO, but Magnezone does this better and it still fails at checking Genesect.

[Afti]

Whether or not Shadow Tag Chandelure would check Genesect is irrelevant. It's not even banned - it doesn't exist yet. We couldn't start using it even if it'd singlehandedly create a metagame where nothing - not even Arceus - could be called broken. So - not on the table.

[AJC]

well folks kyu-B was voted OU time to see what will happen in OU for real outside a suspect test ladder.

[TooMuchSugar]

Originally Posted by Fat NoUserName

Because Metagross counters Tornadus-T and Keldeo dies to him.

Metagross gets outsped and OHKO'd by a +1 Hydro Pump in the rain, so he doesn't make a very effective Keldeo check. He does seem to be a decent Tornadus-T check, though.

[SJCrew]

He means that Metagross usage is higher for checking Tornadus-T, while Keldeo usage is lower for losing to Tornadus-T.

Their percentile difference is too small to effectively analyze anyway.

[un?lucky]

Ah genesect, the cause of, and solution to all life's problems.

Though a high usage doesn't necessarily mean it's "uber" genesect just appears to be very useful in playing many roles and doing well in most of them which I think explains its high usage, as opposed to being insanely strong and gamebreaking that every team has to have one in order to win.

[Lord of Bays]

Overcentralization is one of the reasons we look at Suspecting. We want a DIVERSE metagame, not one in which the same team is spammed over and fucking over.

That being said, Genesect is incredibly powerful and is a problem besides being overused.

[Scarfwynaut]

I think the time of deluding ourselfs into thinking that genesect is anything but a solid suspect is over.

[FaceFaceFace]

Originally Posted by Fat un?lucky

Though a high usage doesn't necessarily mean it's "uber" genesect just appears to be very useful in playing many roles and doing well in most of them which I think explains its high usage, as opposed to being insanely strong and gamebreaking that every team has to have one in order to win.

Genesect is actually pretty gamebreakingly strong with access to a free +1 from download and ridiculous coverage. Heatran walls it cold but anything else risk eating a SE attack from 'Sect. If the opposing team lacks a Heatran or maybe Terrakion/Ttar and Genesect is reasonably healthy, +1 RP = game over.

Will Thor answer our call and grace us with his banhammer?