Kyurem-B

**ginganinja** · Nov 6th, 2012, 1:16:07 AM

The OP of the previous thread was lacking, so I created this thread myself

Kyurem-B
Stats: HP: 125 / Atk: 170 / Def: 100 / SpA: 120 / SpD: 90 / Spe: 95 | BST: 710

Ability: Terravolt - Bypasses targets' abilities if they could hinder or prevent moves.

Typing: Dragon / Ice
Weaknesses: Dragon (x2), Fighting (x2), Rock (x2), Steel (x2)
Resistances: Electric (0.5), Grass (0.5), Water (0.5)

Much has been said about Kyurem-B, the mighty new forme of Kyurem. The most talked about aspect, its the massive 170 base Attack stat, which lets Kyurem-B dish out tremendous damage, while also making it exceptionally difficult to switch into. If this wasn't enough, Kyurem-B also has an excellent 120 Special Attack stat, which allows it to pull off mixed sets very well.

With access to such high attacking stats, you would think Kyurem-B would be an instant Uber, however, Kyurem-B suffers from a few obvious flaws. For starters, it keeps its base forms typing, Dragon and Ice, which unfortunately grants it weaknesses to several common attacking types, such as Dragon and Fighting, as well as Rock and Steel. This means that Kyurem-B loses 25% switching in, if Stealth Rock is up, which cuts into its impressive bulk. Kyurem-B is also disadvantaged due to the fact that it is weak to many common forms of priority. With Mach Punch Breloom and Bullet Punch Scizor roaming OU, both pokemon can do large amounts of damage, picking off Kyurem-B once its health drops to a certain point. Lastly, 90 base speed, while respectable, isn't quite fast enough to outspeed some of the more common offensive pokemon such as Terrakion, Keldeo, and Garchomp, which allow it to be revenged without too much difficulty.

During the recent suspect test, users heavily debated the stats of Kyurem-B as to whether it was too strong for OU, however when the voting was carried out, the majority of voters felt that Kyurem-B was fine in OU, and for now at least, its here to stay

Level Up Moves

...

Tutored Moves

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TM/HM Moves

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Possible Sets

Physically based Mixed

Kyurem-B @ Life Orb
Trait: Terravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive nature
- Outrage
- Fusion Bolt
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power

Specially Based Mixed

Kyurem-B @ Expert Belt
Trait: Terravolt
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
~Dragon Claw
~Ice Beam
~Earth Power
~Focus Blast

Choice Scarf

Kyurem-B @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Terravolt
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Outrage
-Fusion Bolt
-Dragon Claw
-Earth Power

Sub Hone Claws

Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 56 Spd / 252 HP / 64 Def / 136 SDef
Careful Nature
- Substitute
- Dragon Tail
- Hone Claws / Earth Power / Ice Beam
- Roost

Sub + 3 Attacks

Kyurem-B @ Leftovers
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 56 HP / 216 Atk / 236 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Fusion Bolt
- Ice Beam / Hidden Power Fire
- Dragon Claw

Choice Band

Kyurem-B @ Choice Band
Trait: Terravolt
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Outrage
-Fusion Bolt
-Dragon Claw
-Earth Power

Kuzan (Kyurem-Black) @ Choice Band
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Atk / 60 SDef / 84 Spd / 16 Def
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw
- Fusion Bolt
- Rock Smash

Conclusion

Kyurem-B has its obvious strengths and weaknesses, but there is no doubt that it has great potential in OU. For example, its one of the few dragon types that is not weak to Ice attacks, making it slightly more difficult for one of the more common revenge killers in OU, Genesect, to revenge with Ice Beam, while also not worrying about Mamoswines Ice Shard, unlike its other dragon types. In regards to "the Cube's" impact on the OU metagame, only time will tell, for now, please post your experiences, opinions, viewpoints and suchlike on Kyurem-B in OU, in this thread. Remember to stay on topic, and try not to discuss its tiering please.

ill try and add proper questions later, im tired and its past midnight

Katakiri · Nov 6th, 2012, 1:44:48 AM

Add its stats and movepool; at the very least link to the Strategy Pokedex.

Pocket EDIT: Did it for him

Masamune · Nov 6th, 2012, 5:21:02 AM

I don't expect it to be that popular - weaknesses to two types of common priority (fighting/steel), all three entry hazards (SR in particular), a rubbish movepool, low-ish base speed and no priority of its own make for a rather underwhelming Pokémon. Beneath that incredible attack lie some huge flaws. Pretty much any bulky steel handles it - Scizor, Forretress, Ferrothorn, Cobalion and so on. I expect DragMag teams to rise in usage now that he's OU, as a CB outrage is face meltingly powerful on anything that doesn't resist it, but outside of that, he really has no niche as he's outclassed by others in certain areas.

Also, Kyurem-G does the SubRoost set infinitely better, due to Pressure. Kyurem-B doesn't have a lot going for it and as such, needs to make use of what it has - namely, that base 170 attack.

ClubbingSealCub · Nov 6th, 2012, 5:25:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Masamune

Also, Kyurem-G does the SubRoost set infinitely better, due to Pressure. Kyurem-B doesn't have a lot going for it and as such, needs to make use of what it has - namely, that base 170 attack.

Cube can get past spdef rotom-w with EP thanks to Teravolt, however. Something Kyu-C can't do.Teravolt also cancels Multiscale, sturdy, etc.

I would honestly use KB over KC as special attacker because of Teravolt.

X5Dragon · Nov 6th, 2012, 5:41:40 AM

I wonder how feasible it would be to run a babiri berry for it, or how good a EB set would work out...

***Haunter***** · Nov 6th, 2012, 6:00:43 AM

Quote:

Cube can get past spdef rotom-w with EP thanks to Teravolt, however. Something Kyu-C can't do.Teravolt also cancels Multiscale, sturdy, etc.

Well, to be honest, it's not like specially defensive Rotom can do anything to regular Kyurem. Its hydro pumps won't even break Kyurem's substitutes in one hit so it can just be stalled out of PP with pressure. Same with multiscale, stab ice beam will kill Dragonite through multiscale most of the time (94,44% - 111,11% to offensive Dnite). Sturdy Pokemon like Skarm and Donphan can't really touch Kyurem and are both 2HKO'd by ice beam so I don't see why you would use a full special Kyurem-B over its standard form.

ClubbingSealCub · Nov 6th, 2012, 6:08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Haunter

Well, to be honest, it's not like specially defensive Rotom can do anything to regular Kyurem. Its hydro pumps won't even break Kyurem's substitutes in one hit so it can just be stalled out of PP with pressure. Same with multiscale, stab ice beam will kill Dragonite through multiscale most of the time (94,44% - 111,11% to offensive Dnite). Sturdy Pokemon like Skarm and Donphan can't really touch Kyurem and are both 2HKO'd by ice beam so I don't see why you would use a full special Kyurem-B over its standard form.

I feel Bronzong is getting more popular as of late (at least from my OU experience. I run into it often, maybe im just bad) and Teravolt EP lets cube get past it, which is another thing KyuC cant do.

***Haunter***** · Nov 6th, 2012, 6:25:42 AM

I honestly don't think that it's worth sacrificing 22 points in SpA just to get coverage against an UU Pokemon like Bronzong. According to my experience on the suspect ladder Kyurem-B's best sets are choice band and mixed ones.

Doom Chaos · Nov 6th, 2012, 7:07:39 AM

Kyurem-B's SpD is actually "only" 90

Also, how good/bad is Hidden Power Fire on this guy?

Katakiri · Nov 6th, 2012, 7:24:56 AM

I'd like to point out that a few of Kyurem's sets are now rivaled or even out-classed by Kyurem-Black; this includes purely Special sets as well since Black's Special Attack is very much on par with the normal form. The far superior Teravolt ability, new BoltBeam coverage in Fusion Bolt, and Kyurem-B's immediately threatening Attack stat let it not only hit threats Kyurem can't hit without using it's precious, usually committed, Dragon-STAB attack (like hitting Rotom-W with Earth Power or Balloon Heatran with HP Fire should it lack Focus Blast or Fusion Bolt; there's also Thick Fat and Sturdy!) but will also draw-in Physically Defensive Pokemon that Special-oriented or Mixed sets can destroy. However, Kyurem-Black can't Pressure stall so SubRoost Kyurem still goes unrivaled for the most part.

With a mixed-offense monster like there are a lot of possibilities to explore!

StairFall · Nov 6th, 2012, 7:29:21 AM

Being weak to steel will be this guys downfall. Taking double damage from the dragon resist's STAB just makes it walled even harder than usual and staying in on steels a worse move in general. Ferro's iron barbs especially mean outrage in general is a no-no. Choice scarf Jirachi can flinch hax it with a super effective iron head.

Ice typing will prove to be his biggest hurdle.

Asek · Nov 6th, 2012, 7:39:17 AM

I'm pretty happy that cube has dropped, and although lots of players think hes bad I just think a lot of people aren't using him right.

Both of the choice sets are pretty average imo, and are done better by another dragon in OU. Scarf is done better by salamence who has a fair better speed tier for the job as well as moxie to really get that snow ball effect going which is like having a sweeper and a revenger rolled into one, much better than cube who only has bulk over it. The band sets are alright, but if I wanted a banded dragon I would either go with Dragonite, who has the precious extremspeed or otherwise Haxorus, who has a better speed tier, most noticably outspeed the newest edition to the tier, cube himself. Also max speed on band is sort of wasteful imo, if you run enough to outspeed adamant dragonite you aren't missing out on anything much besides opposing cubes, an EV spread of 120HP/ 252Atk/ 136Spe will let you do that and it adds to cubes impressive bulk. But yeah overall the choice sets are also easily revenged by the common priorities from breloom and scizor, and the choice scarf set is fairly easy to wall and contain as well and revenge, and the band set is really just a free kill to many OU mons once its decided to outrage.

Sub + 3 attacks cube is really awesome, the abilty to avoid revenge killers is just amazing on a mon such as cube. Breloom, Scizor, Terrakion, Landorus, Haxorus, Hydreigon, CB Gene w/ Iron Head and Salamence are all mons who are now not beating you, and if you can keep that sub up your avoiding all the harmful status that also plagues cube, such as WoW and T wave, which is a great asset for him to have. The oppurtunites to sub up are also numerous here, as with its well above average bulk and the abilty to make over 101HP subs, it can create huge subs often and once behind them wreck havoc. Also of note is the very nice abilty to take on a lot of water type moves in the tier with significant investment, and Lum + Sub cube can beat a lot of bulky waters who will attempt to burn with scald or poison with toxic respectively, and they just become mere set up bait to you with lum, but leftovers is usually better.

Mixed 4 attack variants really are close to the death of full stall in OU. With special attack higher than latias and nearly the highest attack stat in the game, not to mention those amazing offensive dual STAB's, common stall components such as Blissey, Skarmory, Gliscor, Forretress and others are in for a rough time, as with cubes above bulk, a speed tier that outpaces most stall mons and its ok set of resistances, it can terrorize the few full stall teams that show themselves in OU. Also LO + Roost cube makes for an excellent offensive tank, it can take most hits that aren't SFE and can roost off the damage, while hitting back hard off of its giant attacking stats.

Really looking forward to see how cube settles into the meta
Also haunter when you deleted gingas thread I had to write this up all over again >:(
EDIT by Haunter: I just merged his thread with this ;)

Andeby · Nov 6th, 2012, 9:05:33 AM

Well, there goes the last bit of motivation I had for trying out stall in this metagame.

Not disagreeing with the decision though, as I played enough on the suspect ladder to see how underwhelming Kyurem-B can be in today`s metagame. Going to be interesting to see if someone can build a top-tier team around him. Sub + 3 Attacks is mean, especially with Blizzard on Hail teams.

flea · Nov 6th, 2012, 10:43:06 AM

This is pretty nitpicky, but in the OP the pokedex stats say base 95 speed (which is correct) but in ginga's analysis he says it has base 90.

So yeah, I've faced a few of them on the new ladder and it's really still pretty underwhelming. It really hates all hazards and is weak to several current big metagame threats. Based on what I've seen I think the sub variant is the one I will be using...it forces a lot of nice switches and the priority shield is huge. Still think it's manageable and I'm glad to have it here in OU

Kibago · Nov 6th, 2012, 11:08:26 AM

i'll have to test him out, but he seems like a dragons+Magnezone team candidate to me. CB Outrages from him and Haxorus with a ScarfMence to clean up?

as a team's only dragon, i'm having a hard time seeing why i'd pick him.

Raging Man · Nov 6th, 2012, 11:40:24 AM

I'm pretty sure his Special Defense is 90 not 100. Might want to change that.

alexwolf · Nov 6th, 2012, 11:55:44 AM

Ginga Fusion Bolt outclasses Dragon Claw in the specially based mixed set. Fusion Bolt offers much better super effective coverage than Dragon Claw. Dragon types are taken care of by Ice Beam. Most other Pokemon are taken care of you coverage moves. By taking a quick list at the OU list here are the Pokemon that Dragon Claw is useful for:

Blissey, Gastrodon.

And that's it. Everything else is taken of with your coverage moves. And note that with zero Atk investment those two pokes have very small chance to get 2HKOed after SR (like 20%).

Fusion Bolt allows you to beat Jellicent and Vaporeon, which otherwise wall you, Politoed, which can otherwise have at shot at burning you, Keldeo, which can otherwise survive anything else and set up one CM, Gyarados, which can otherwise set-up one DD and attempt to sweep if Kyurem-B is weakened, and finally to OHKO Starmie, which maybe can't do a lot back, but an OHKO is better than a 2HKO right?

Also i believe that HP Fire should be slashed with Focus Blast. HP Fire allows Kyurem-B to deal with otherwise problematic Pokemon, such as Scizor, Forretress and Ferrothorn. Yeah i know that FB hits all of them hard, BUT it is unreliable and doesn't OHKO any of them.

thebrownie · Nov 6th, 2012, 12:16:18 PM

It might be a good suicide lead where you just spam banded Outrage with fully invested attack. It 2hko many bulky steels and 3kho pretty much all but skarmory, forettress and ferrothorn. 1hko pretty much everything else.

AJC · Nov 6th, 2012, 1:13:34 PM

^ blindly spamming outrage gets you killed by CB Scizor bullet punch.

Kyurem-B has a major issue with it's physical sets because of how limited it is on that side for coverage both fusion bolt and outrage have downsides that allow it to be rather easily maneuvered into not doing as much damage has something with it's stats would suggest.

thebrownie · Nov 6th, 2012, 3:05:22 PM

Well blindly spamming outrage is a bit of an overstatement... there are a few pokes that can take an outrage decently, namely very bulky steels and stuff like Scizor who can bullet punch. However banded outrage 2hko scizor, so scizor can't switch in and it ohko most leads outside of very bulky pokes. It has a 38% to ohko 252/0 tyranitar with outrage. A simple solution is to not lead vs scizor. It does 86-101 to 252/0 Deoxys-D. Suicide leading Kyurem-B allows you to not worry about hazards.

Not to mention it crushes genesect leads (which are the most common lead in this meta) and ohko politoed.

The coolest thing though is that you can just run hidden power fire on Kyrem-B and it ohko scizor

UltiMario · Nov 6th, 2012, 3:50:04 PM

Semi-off topic but Kyu-B really needs to be moved down to OU in the on-site tiers. It's still in Ubers there.

HAiGAizZ · Nov 6th, 2012, 4:05:19 PM

Ohkoing scizor isn't going to help you whatsoever, as I don't see it switching in on you, and BP bypasses your higher speed.
The problem I see with lead cube is that it's going to kill something, be locked into outrage, then die to a revenge killer. Terrakion, Scizor, Latios, Garchomp, Jirachi etc etc etc will just come in afterwards and kill your Kyurem, wasting it.

On a more general note, I definitely don't see cube getting all too much usage as soon as the hype dies down. Ferrothorn is as common as ever, and this thing is easy to revenge kill. Banded cube might be a fun thing to use, but as soon as you hit that Outrage button you're writing a big sign on your chest that says "REVENGE KILL ME". Factor in that it's affected by all hazards and weak to SR and we have a poke with terrible longevity, especially if you choose to run Life Orb.

That said I'm definitely going to try this thing out to have a little fun (probably play around with CB because pwrfl), but I definitely see the other dragons having more usage in the long run.

Also fun fact, this thing is statistically more physically bulky than Skarmory.

thebrownie · Nov 6th, 2012, 4:15:18 PM

Well if you lead with Kyruem-B and they lead with scizor you get a kill. Kyruem-B is super easy to revenge kill, but if you ohko with max health, you're living a lot of revenge killer's attacks. Kyurem-B might be a good candidate to recieve a shell smash, making it able to outspeed most pokemon and 2hko pretty much everything.

Ninelol · Nov 6th, 2012, 4:18:29 PM

Kyurem-Black @ Expert Belt
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 Spd
Lax Nature
- Outrage
- Fusion Bolt
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Survive all the attacks, if his speed is holding him back rely on his bulk instead! Can take CB Scizors bullet punch after rocks, Breloom's mach punch in the same fashion and KO with coverage. 2hko's ferrothorn outside of rain, can take scarfed STAB SE 120 base attacks up to Adamant Haxorus's outrage and KO back with his own outrage. Almost the same attack as Adamant Haxorus with silly bulk.

NannyCakes · Nov 6th, 2012, 4:24:07 PM

People are very prone to mention the fighting/steel weakness in terms of weakness to priority (Mach/Bullet Punch). The only reason this can be seen as a threat is when coupled with Stealth Rock weakness, considering that Terrakion is also weak to those moves, and in terms of natural bulk, Kyurem-B outclasses Terrakion. Also, other than Speed and Sp. Defense, where there is a tie, it outclasses Terrakion in every stat. And Terrakion is pretty good, so yeah.

Nov 6th, 2012, 1:16:07 AM	#1
ginganinja Delena 4ever Moderator Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,100 In Love	The OP of the previous thread was lacking, so I created this thread myself Kyurem-B Stats: HP: 125 / Atk: 170 / Def: 100 / SpA: 120 / SpD: 90 / Spe: 95 \| BST: 710 Ability: Terravolt - Bypasses targets' abilities if they could hinder or prevent moves. Typing: Dragon / Ice Weaknesses: Dragon (x2), Fighting (x2), Rock (x2), Steel (x2) Resistances: Electric (0.5), Grass (0.5), Water (0.5) Much has been said about Kyurem-B, the mighty new forme of Kyurem. The most talked about aspect, its the massive 170 base Attack stat, which lets Kyurem-B dish out tremendous damage, while also making it exceptionally difficult to switch into. If this wasn't enough, Kyurem-B also has an excellent 120 Special Attack stat, which allows it to pull off mixed sets very well. With access to such high attacking stats, you would think Kyurem-B would be an instant Uber, however, Kyurem-B suffers from a few obvious flaws. For starters, it keeps its base forms typing, Dragon and Ice, which unfortunately grants it weaknesses to several common attacking types, such as Dragon and Fighting, as well as Rock and Steel. This means that Kyurem-B loses 25% switching in, if Stealth Rock is up, which cuts into its impressive bulk. Kyurem-B is also disadvantaged due to the fact that it is weak to many common forms of priority. With Mach Punch Breloom and Bullet Punch Scizor roaming OU, both pokemon can do large amounts of damage, picking off Kyurem-B once its health drops to a certain point. Lastly, 90 base speed, while respectable, isn't quite fast enough to outspeed some of the more common offensive pokemon such as Terrakion, Keldeo, and Garchomp, which allow it to be revenged without too much difficulty. During the recent suspect test, users heavily debated the stats of Kyurem-B as to whether it was too strong for OU, however when the voting was carried out, the majority of voters felt that Kyurem-B was fine in OU, and for now at least, its here to stay Level Up Moves ... — Icy Wind — Dragon Rage 8 Imprison 15 AncientPower 22 Ice Beam 29 DragonBreath 36 Slash 43 Scary Face 50 Glaciate 57 Dragon Pulse 64 Imprison 71 Endeavor 78 Blizzard 85 Outrage 92 Hyper Voice Tutored Moves ... Draco Meteor Dragon Pulse Earth Power Endeavor Hyper Voice Icy Wind Iron Head Outrage Roost Signal Beam Sleep Talk Snore Zen Headbutt TM/HM Moves ... Hone Claws Dragon Claw Toxic Hail Hidden Power Sunny Day Ice Beam Blizzard Hyper Beam Light Screen Protect Rain Dance Safeguard Frustration Return Psychic Shadow Ball Double Team Reflect Rock Tomb Facade Rest Round Echoed Voice Focus Blast Fling Shadow Claw Payback Giga Impact Stone Edge Rock Slide Dragon Tail Swagger Substitute Flash Cannon Rock Smash Cut Fly Strength Possible Sets Physically based Mixed Kyurem-B @ Life Orb Trait: Terravolt EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe Naive nature - Outrage - Fusion Bolt - Ice Beam - Earth Power Specially Based Mixed Kyurem-B @ Expert Belt Trait: Terravolt EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Hasty Nature ~Dragon Claw ~Ice Beam ~Earth Power ~Focus Blast Choice Scarf Kyurem-B @ Choice Scarf Trait: Terravolt EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe Adamant Nature -Outrage -Fusion Bolt -Dragon Claw -Earth Power Sub Hone Claws Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers Trait: Teravolt EVs: 56 Spd / 252 HP / 64 Def / 136 SDef Careful Nature - Substitute - Dragon Tail - Hone Claws / Earth Power / Ice Beam - Roost Sub + 3 Attacks Kyurem-B @ Leftovers Trait: Teravolt EVs: 56 HP / 216 Atk / 236 Spd Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Substitute - Fusion Bolt - Ice Beam / Hidden Power Fire - Dragon Claw Choice Band Kyurem-B @ Choice Band Trait: Terravolt EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe Adamant Nature -Outrage -Fusion Bolt -Dragon Claw -Earth Power Kuzan (Kyurem-Black) @ Choice Band Trait: Teravolt EVs: 252 HP / 96 Atk / 60 SDef / 84 Spd / 16 Def Adamant Nature - Outrage - Dragon Claw - Fusion Bolt - Rock Smash Conclusion Kyurem-B has its obvious strengths and weaknesses, but there is no doubt that it has great potential in OU. For example, its one of the few dragon types that is not weak to Ice attacks, making it slightly more difficult for one of the more common revenge killers in OU, Genesect, to revenge with Ice Beam, while also not worrying about Mamoswines Ice Shard, unlike its other dragon types. In regards to "the Cube's" impact on the OU metagame, only time will tell, for now, please post your experiences, opinions, viewpoints and suchlike on Kyurem-B in OU, in this thread. Remember to stay on topic, and try not to discuss its tiering please. ill try and add proper questions later, im tired and its past midnight __________________ Last edited by Haunter; Dec 20th, 2012 at 8:48:19 AM. Reason: added Pocket's awesome CB Kyu-B

Nov 6th, 2012, 1:44:48 AM	#2
Katakiri Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 758 Smogon Mobile. Ugh.	Add its stats and movepool; at the very least link to the Strategy Pokedex. Pocket EDIT: Did it for him __________________ Take chances, make mistakes, get messy! Last edited by Pocket; Nov 6th, 2012 at 2:36:58 AM.

Nov 6th, 2012, 5:41:40 AM	#5
X5Dragon Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 1,042	I wonder how feasible it would be to run a babiri berry for it, or how good a EB set would work out... __________________ X5Dragon Dances all D-Nite (PS: #1; PO: Smogon #1, Beta #27) http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3454642 Two year old team still dominating ladders everywhere ^_^

Nov 6th, 2012, 7:24:56 AM	#10
Katakiri Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 758 Smogon Mobile. Ugh.	I'd like to point out that a few of Kyurem's sets are now rivaled or even out-classed by Kyurem-Black; this includes purely Special sets as well since Black's Special Attack is very much on par with the normal form. The far superior Teravolt ability, new BoltBeam coverage in Fusion Bolt, and Kyurem-B's immediately threatening Attack stat let it not only hit threats Kyurem can't hit without using it's precious, usually committed, Dragon-STAB attack (like hitting Rotom-W with Earth Power or Balloon Heatran with HP Fire should it lack Focus Blast or Fusion Bolt; there's also Thick Fat and Sturdy!) but will also draw-in Physically Defensive Pokemon that Special-oriented or Mixed sets can destroy. However, Kyurem-Black can't Pressure stall so SubRoost Kyurem still goes unrivaled for the most part. With a mixed-offense monster like there are a lot of possibilities to explore! __________________ Take chances, make mistakes, get messy!

Nov 6th, 2012, 7:29:21 AM	#11
StairFall Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 147	Being weak to steel will be this guys downfall. Taking double damage from the dragon resist's STAB just makes it walled even harder than usual and staying in on steels a worse move in general. Ferro's iron barbs especially mean outrage in general is a no-no. Choice scarf Jirachi can flinch hax it with a super effective iron head. Ice typing will prove to be his biggest hurdle. __________________ I warned you about stairs bro! I told you dawg!

Nov 6th, 2012, 5:21:02 AM	#3
Masamune Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,486	I don't expect it to be that popular - weaknesses to two types of common priority (fighting/steel), all three entry hazards (SR in particular), a rubbish movepool, low-ish base speed and no priority of its own make for a rather underwhelming Pokémon. Beneath that incredible attack lie some huge flaws. Pretty much any bulky steel handles it - Scizor, Forretress, Ferrothorn, Cobalion and so on. I expect DragMag teams to rise in usage now that he's OU, as a CB outrage is face meltingly powerful on anything that doesn't resist it, but outside of that, he really has no niche as he's outclassed by others in certain areas. Also, Kyurem-G does the SubRoost set infinitely better, due to Pressure. Kyurem-B doesn't have a lot going for it and as such, needs to make use of what it has - namely, that base 170 attack.

Nov 6th, 2012, 7:07:39 AM	#9
Doom Chaos Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 186 Fennekin for Fire/Fighting	Kyurem-B's SpD is actually "only" 90 Also, how good/bad is Hidden Power Fire on this guy?

Nov 6th, 2012, 7:39:17 AM	#12
Asek Swell Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 408 VM for an OU rate	I'm pretty happy that cube has dropped, and although lots of players think hes bad I just think a lot of people aren't using him right. Both of the choice sets are pretty average imo, and are done better by another dragon in OU. Scarf is done better by salamence who has a fair better speed tier for the job as well as moxie to really get that snow ball effect going which is like having a sweeper and a revenger rolled into one, much better than cube who only has bulk over it. The band sets are alright, but if I wanted a banded dragon I would either go with Dragonite, who has the precious extremspeed or otherwise Haxorus, who has a better speed tier, most noticably outspeed the newest edition to the tier, cube himself. Also max speed on band is sort of wasteful imo, if you run enough to outspeed adamant dragonite you aren't missing out on anything much besides opposing cubes, an EV spread of 120HP/ 252Atk/ 136Spe will let you do that and it adds to cubes impressive bulk. But yeah overall the choice sets are also easily revenged by the common priorities from breloom and scizor, and the choice scarf set is fairly easy to wall and contain as well and revenge, and the band set is really just a free kill to many OU mons once its decided to outrage. Sub + 3 attacks cube is really awesome, the abilty to avoid revenge killers is just amazing on a mon such as cube. Breloom, Scizor, Terrakion, Landorus, Haxorus, Hydreigon, CB Gene w/ Iron Head and Salamence are all mons who are now not beating you, and if you can keep that sub up your avoiding all the harmful status that also plagues cube, such as WoW and T wave, which is a great asset for him to have. The oppurtunites to sub up are also numerous here, as with its well above average bulk and the abilty to make over 101HP subs, it can create huge subs often and once behind them wreck havoc. Also of note is the very nice abilty to take on a lot of water type moves in the tier with significant investment, and Lum + Sub cube can beat a lot of bulky waters who will attempt to burn with scald or poison with toxic respectively, and they just become mere set up bait to you with lum, but leftovers is usually better. Mixed 4 attack variants really are close to the death of full stall in OU. With special attack higher than latias and nearly the highest attack stat in the game, not to mention those amazing offensive dual STAB's, common stall components such as Blissey, Skarmory, Gliscor, Forretress and others are in for a rough time, as with cubes above bulk, a speed tier that outpaces most stall mons and its ok set of resistances, it can terrorize the few full stall teams that show themselves in OU. Also LO + Roost cube makes for an excellent offensive tank, it can take most hits that aren't SFE and can roost off the damage, while hitting back hard off of its giant attacking stats. Really looking forward to see how cube settles into the meta Also haunter when you deleted gingas thread I had to write this up all over again >:( EDIT by Haunter: I just merged his thread with this ;) __________________ Ocean Last edited by Haunter; Nov 6th, 2012 at 7:55:55 AM.

Nov 6th, 2012, 9:05:33 AM	#13
Andeby Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 912 Norway	Well, there goes the last bit of motivation I had for trying out stall in this metagame. Not disagreeing with the decision though, as I played enough on the suspect ladder to see how underwhelming Kyurem-B can be in today`s metagame. Going to be interesting to see if someone can build a top-tier team around him. Sub + 3 Attacks is mean, especially with Blizzard on Hail teams.

Nov 6th, 2012, 10:43:06 AM	#14
flea Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 43 Suuuuuper Geeeenius	This is pretty nitpicky, but in the OP the pokedex stats say base 95 speed (which is correct) but in ginga's analysis he says it has base 90. So yeah, I've faced a few of them on the new ladder and it's really still pretty underwhelming. It really hates all hazards and is weak to several current big metagame threats. Based on what I've seen I think the sub variant is the one I will be using...it forces a lot of nice switches and the priority shield is huge. Still think it's manageable and I'm glad to have it here in OU __________________ I've got my ACME rewards card.

Nov 6th, 2012, 11:08:26 AM	#15
Kibago Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 46 Toronto	i'll have to test him out, but he seems like a dragons+Magnezone team candidate to me. CB Outrages from him and Haxorus with a ScarfMence to clean up? as a team's only dragon, i'm having a hard time seeing why i'd pick him. __________________ use Meloetta. trust me. she's awesome. Pokemon Showdown records: OU - 1733 / 79% / 1839(71) / 45-16-0

Nov 6th, 2012, 11:40:24 AM	#16
Raging Man Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 1 Kanto	I'm pretty sure his Special Defense is 90 not 100. Might want to change that.

Nov 6th, 2012, 11:55:44 AM	#17
alexwolf King of Conquerors Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,633 Greece	Ginga Fusion Bolt outclasses Dragon Claw in the specially based mixed set. Fusion Bolt offers much better super effective coverage than Dragon Claw. Dragon types are taken care of by Ice Beam. Most other Pokemon are taken care of you coverage moves. By taking a quick list at the OU list here are the Pokemon that Dragon Claw is useful for: Blissey, Gastrodon. And that's it. Everything else is taken of with your coverage moves. And note that with zero Atk investment those two pokes have very small chance to get 2HKOed after SR (like 20%). Fusion Bolt allows you to beat Jellicent and Vaporeon, which otherwise wall you, Politoed, which can otherwise have at shot at burning you, Keldeo, which can otherwise survive anything else and set up one CM, Gyarados, which can otherwise set-up one DD and attempt to sweep if Kyurem-B is weakened, and finally to OHKO Starmie, which maybe can't do a lot back, but an OHKO is better than a 2HKO right? Also i believe that HP Fire should be slashed with Focus Blast. HP Fire allows Kyurem-B to deal with otherwise problematic Pokemon, such as Scizor, Forretress and Ferrothorn. Yeah i know that FB hits all of them hard, BUT it is unreliable and doesn't OHKO any of them. __________________ Part of the OU QC team, message me for a check!

Nov 6th, 2012, 12:16:18 PM	#18
thebrownie Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 83	It might be a good suicide lead where you just spam banded Outrage with fully invested attack. It 2hko many bulky steels and 3kho pretty much all but skarmory, forettress and ferrothorn. 1hko pretty much everything else.

Nov 6th, 2012, 1:13:34 PM	#19
AJC Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,183	^ blindly spamming outrage gets you killed by CB Scizor bullet punch. Kyurem-B has a major issue with it's physical sets because of how limited it is on that side for coverage both fusion bolt and outrage have downsides that allow it to be rather easily maneuvered into not doing as much damage has something with it's stats would suggest. __________________ <Misty> NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH CHOICE BAND JIRACHI INQUISITION. <Surgo> when a man whips out a pink DS and pokemon, you know he's not afraid of anything. <capefeather> explosion got ruined by the bad economy

Nov 6th, 2012, 3:05:22 PM	#20
thebrownie Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 83	Well blindly spamming outrage is a bit of an overstatement... there are a few pokes that can take an outrage decently, namely very bulky steels and stuff like Scizor who can bullet punch. However banded outrage 2hko scizor, so scizor can't switch in and it ohko most leads outside of very bulky pokes. It has a 38% to ohko 252/0 tyranitar with outrage. A simple solution is to not lead vs scizor. It does 86-101 to 252/0 Deoxys-D. Suicide leading Kyurem-B allows you to not worry about hazards. Not to mention it crushes genesect leads (which are the most common lead in this meta) and ohko politoed. The coolest thing though is that you can just run hidden power fire on Kyrem-B and it ohko scizor

Nov 6th, 2012, 4:05:19 PM	#22
HAiGAizZ Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 21 Sweden	Ohkoing scizor isn't going to help you whatsoever, as I don't see it switching in on you, and BP bypasses your higher speed. The problem I see with lead cube is that it's going to kill something, be locked into outrage, then die to a revenge killer. Terrakion, Scizor, Latios, Garchomp, Jirachi etc etc etc will just come in afterwards and kill your Kyurem, wasting it. On a more general note, I definitely don't see cube getting all too much usage as soon as the hype dies down. Ferrothorn is as common as ever, and this thing is easy to revenge kill. Banded cube might be a fun thing to use, but as soon as you hit that Outrage button you're writing a big sign on your chest that says "REVENGE KILL ME". Factor in that it's affected by all hazards and weak to SR and we have a poke with terrible longevity, especially if you choose to run Life Orb. That said I'm definitely going to try this thing out to have a little fun (probably play around with CB because pwrfl), but I definitely see the other dragons having more usage in the long run. Also fun fact, this thing is statistically more physically bulky than Skarmory. __________________ I use legal hacks FC: 3095 9322 1932

Nov 6th, 2012, 4:15:18 PM	#23
thebrownie Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 83	Well if you lead with Kyruem-B and they lead with scizor you get a kill. Kyruem-B is super easy to revenge kill, but if you ohko with max health, you're living a lot of revenge killer's attacks. Kyurem-B might be a good candidate to recieve a shell smash, making it able to outspeed most pokemon and 2hko pretty much everything.

Nov 6th, 2012, 4:18:29 PM	#24
Ninelol Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 36 Seattle, WA	Kyurem-Black @ Expert Belt Trait: Teravolt EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 Spd Lax Nature - Outrage - Fusion Bolt - Ice Beam - Hidden Power [Fire] Survive all the attacks, if his speed is holding him back rely on his bulk instead! Can take CB Scizors bullet punch after rocks, Breloom's mach punch in the same fashion and KO with coverage. 2hko's ferrothorn outside of rain, can take scarfed STAB SE 120 base attacks up to Adamant Haxorus's outrage and KO back with his own outrage. Almost the same attack as Adamant Haxorus with silly bulk.

Nov 6th, 2012, 4:24:07 PM	#25
NannyCakes Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 37	People are very prone to mention the fighting/steel weakness in terms of weakness to priority (Mach/Bullet Punch). The only reason this can be seen as a threat is when coupled with Stealth Rock weakness, considering that Terrakion is also weak to those moves, and in terms of natural bulk, Kyurem-B outclasses Terrakion. Also, other than Speed and Sp. Defense, where there is a tie, it outclasses Terrakion in every stat. And Terrakion is pretty good, so yeah.