Zapdos discussion.

[evillocke]

Welcome zapdos, our favorite electric...bird...thing. Zapdos has not been seen much in BW2ou due to the fact that it faces stiff competition from thundurus-t. But, zapdos has some tings over the therian genie.

HP: 90
Attack: 90
Defense: 85
Special attack: 125
Special defense: 90
Speed: 100

His stats aren't the best in the world, but he has the decent base 100 speed, his major 125 special attack, and decent bulk. this allows zapdos to be versatile with the sets he can run. Stealth rock can be a big problem, though. Be sure to always have rapid spin support when using it.

WEAKNESSES:

Rock 200% Ice 200%

Now let's look at his moves:

Level up moves (Good moves in bold)

...

---

Peck
Thundershock
Thunder wave
Detect
Pluck
Ancientpower
Charge
Discharge
Roost
Light screen
Drill peck
Thunder
Rain dance
Zap cannon

Now lets look at TM/HM moves (Good ones in bold)

...

---

Roar
Toxic
Hidden power
Sunny day
Hyper beam
Light screen
Protect
Rain dance
Frustration
Thunderbolt
Thunder
Return
Double team
Sandstorm
Aerial ace
Facade
Rest
Round
Charge beam
Sky drop
Giga impact
Flash
Volt switch
Thunder wave
Swagger
Pluck
U-turn
Substitute
Wild charge
Rock smash
Fly

Move tutor moves (Good ones in bold)

...

---

Heat wave
Roost
Signal beam
Sky attack
Sleep talk
Snore
Tailwind

Possible sets:

Support

Zapdos@leftovers
Timid
252hp/4spatk/252spd

Tailwind
Light screen
Thunder wave
Roar

[SET COMMENTS] The aim of this zapdos is support your teammates. Usually you will use this variant as a lead. Light screen protects you against some of the strong special attackers in the tier, like latios. Thunder wave cripples sweepers by quartering their speed. tailwind helps boost your own teams speed. And roar is for those annoying pokemon that try to setup on you. The nature allows max speed. The EV's maximise bulk and speed, important stats for a supporter. Leftovers lets you keep your HP up. [/SET COMMENTS]


Choice specs

Zapdos@Choice specs
Timid/Modest
252spatk/4spdef/252spd

Thunderbolt/Thunder
HP Ice/HP Water
Heat wave
Volt switch

[SET COMMENTS] The aim of this set is to kill. Choice specs gives it HUGE special attack. Thunderbolt is primary STAB, though Thunder can be used if you have rain support. HP Ice and HP Water are for ground types, and a few others, it really comes down to : "Which pokemon am I struggling more with?" Heat wave lets you get past steels that try to ruin your fun. Volt swtich helps keep up the offensive pressure. The nature depends on what you want more, speed or power. The EV's maximize zapdos' offensive potential, and helps it keep up with the offensive metagame. [/SET COMMENTS]


Agilidos

Zapdos@life orb/leftovers
Modest
252spatk/252spd/4hp

Agility
Thunderbolt
Heat wave
HP Ice/ HP Water

[SET COMMENTS] This zapdos set aims to set up some agility boosts, and then wreck havoc on the enemy team. Agility is the crux of this set, doubling zapdos' speed in just one boost. Thunderbolt is basic STAB, and hits hard right off the bat. Heat wave is for pesky steels, and things that resist Thunderbolt. HP Ice is for ground types, though you can opt for HP Water instead. The item depends, do you want more power, or more staying power? Either work, though. Modest is used over timid because we are boosting our speed anyway. The ev's maximize zapdos' killing potential.[/SET COMMENTS]


Credit to Scarfwynaut for this set: Specially defensive.

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 224 SDef / 36 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Roost
- Heat Wave
- Roar / Hidden Power [Ice]


Credit to Yeah Galo Sengan for this set: Classic subroost set.

Zapdos@Leftovers

Timid, 192 HP/64 Def/252 Spe

~ Thunderbolt
~ Toxic/Heat Wave/HP Ice
~ Substitute
~ Roost


Thanks you for taking the time to read this. If you see any errors, or know of any more viable sets, I will add them to this post. Thanks again.

[Matthew]

eh fuck it. That thread hasn't had a post in two months I see no harm in having a new discussion thread made.

I like Zapdos as a pokemon, I really do. I think in fourth generation it was by far one of the most versatile pokemon you could encounter. It's typing, stats, and movepool are really awesome in that generation. Though it's pretty much fallen out of grace in this generation because everything hits like a truck and a half. When DW was still a good thing I really loved Zapdos because it was a more bulky and could come in on those God damned electric-type attacks. I don't believe (correct if wrong) that DW Zapdos is out yet, which is sad, but once it is out I do expect a lot of good to come out of Zapdos. Especially since it fucks over Volt-Turn like no one's business.

Zapdos, by large, is outclassed this generation by a lot. There are tons of better pokemon to take hits with and there's ton of better pokemon that can attack faster and harder.

[evillocke]

Originally Posted by Fat Matthew

eh fuck it. That thread hasn't had a post in two months I see no harm in having a new discussion thread made.

I like Zapdos as a pokemon, I really do. I think in fourth generation it was by far one of the most versatile pokemon you could encounter. It's typing, stats, and movepool are really awesome in that generation. Though it's pretty much fallen out of grace in this generation because everything hits like a truck and a half. When DW was still a good thing I really loved Zapdos because it was a more bulky and could come in on those God damned electric-type attacks. I don't believe (correct if wrong) that DW Zapdos is out yet, which is sad, but once it is out I do expect a lot of good to come out of Zapdos. Especially since it fucks over Volt-Turn like no one's business.

Zapdos, by large, is outclassed this generation by a lot. There are tons of better pokemon to take hits with and there's ton of better pokemon that can attack faster and harder.

Definitely. However, when lightingrod comes out, zapdos will see a whole new light, especially on the agility set. Switch in to a lighting attack, set up, and you are good to go. Special attacks from a +1 zapdos are nothing to laugh about. I also like zapdos because he is not 4x weak to stealth rock. Articuno was never a good pokemon....not even in gen 1. This gen, however, moltres got hurricane. Kinda sad that zapdos did not. If zapdos gets hurricane next gen I will be a happy person.

[Yeah Galo Sengan]

I'll always prefer standard SubRoost dos, it is still one of the best Pressure stallers around;

Zapdos@Leftovers

Timid, 192 HP/64 Def/252 Spe

~ Thunderbolt
~ Toxic/Heat Wave/HP Ice
~ Substitute
~ Roost

I like Toxic myself, heat wave really isn't a good idea in today's rain heavy meta, and you have to be really careful with SubCM Rachi.

PS. Zapdos owns, even if it's fallen into the shadows.

[superbadd]

Wouldn't it have been appropriate to post this thread AFTER zapdos received its dw ability? There's really not much more to discuss, I guess it has niche in countering no HP ice tornadus...

[Scarfwynaut]

Ive posted this before, its the only viable set in my opinion and needs to be in the OP.

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 224 SDef / 36 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Roost
- Heat Wave
- Roar / Hidden Power [Ice]

As said, a very effective Tornadus-T counter. On top of that it also counters most versions of Venusaur and SD Scizor. With roar you can check CM-Jirachi if you have spikes support, and with HP ice you stand a chance against Landorus and Gliscor.

It fits a very tiny niche, but if you need a counter or check to those specific pokemon, this is great. Note that it is one of the few SD Scizor counters and Venusaur counters out there.

[dragonuser]

Yea at the moment Zapdos can only reliably run a specially defensive set, which does really well vs Rain offense, every other set is pretty badly outclassed currently. When Zapdos's Dream World ability is released I expect a lot more creative and good sets to come as a result, and I hope to see this guy rise in usage a lot.

[evillocke]

Originally Posted by Fat dragonuser

Yea at the moment Zapdos can only reliably run a specially defensive set, which does really well vs Rain offense, every other set is pretty badly outclassed currently. When Zapdos's Dream World ability is released I expect a lot more creative and good sets to come as a result, and I hope to see this guy rise in usage a lot.

You mean sets like in the OP? I like zapdos currently due to the fact he counters TORNADUS-T and Politoed. Tornadus is seen on, like every team, now and zapdos really suprises the shit out of them.

[Scarfwynaut]

Well, like dragon user said, its specially defensive, not offensive. I use to use it on my stall team when I needed a specific Scizor and Venusaur counter.

Zapdos makes a rather poor Politoed counter as politoed can fire off scald or toxic to cripple it. Its an acceptable counter, because you know STAB thunderbolt, but ideal you want something else to take scalds and poison. If you don't have a back up it can easily be worn down because of rocks + status, and then taken out with enough pressure.

As a last note, when is lightning rod being released? I know this is boarding on orange island discussion but honestly, if this thing got lightning rod it could very well be OU. Its an amazing rotom-w counter then.

[alkinesthetase]

nobody knows when LR will be released, but when it does we shall rejoice

i agree that zapdos's best set by far is the specially defensive set. offensive zapdos can generally be replaced by the more powerful and versatile thundurus-T, since really the only weather such a set would work on is rain (tbolt won't have enough punch to really be definitive, and heat wave in rain is of minimal significance). there's no shortage of good rain sweepers and zapdos has relatively few distinguishing advantages over them.

sdef on the other hand is great because it's the only bulky mon with its typing, and it's a typing that works really really well against rain offense. it's a tornadus-T counter that cannot be trapped by dugtrio, which is huge, and it's not especially G-weak either (zap takes like 47% max from the +0 scarf ice beam).

what it desperately needs right now is lightningrod so it has an easier time taking on the thunders being thrown around in this metagame - LO timid thundy-T hp ice vs zd is never 2hko after lefties where as the thunder is an easy 2hko. the boost from lightningrod also makes offensive sets more viable

[Remedy]

Originally Posted by Fat Scarfwynaut

Ive posted this before, its the only viable set in my opinion and needs to be in the OP.

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 224 SDef / 36 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Roost
- Heat Wave
- Roar / Hidden Power [Ice]

As said, a very effective Tornadus-T counter. On top of that it also counters most versions of Venusaur and SD Scizor. With roar you can check CM-Jirachi if you have spikes support, and with HP ice you stand a chance against Landorus and Gliscor.

It fits a very tiny niche, but if you need a counter or check to those specific pokemon, this is great. Note that it is one of the few SD Scizor counters and Venusaur counters out there.

This set is indeed a really good one, I'm using it and it works just perfectly. It deals well with both Sun and Rain team and that's insane. For instance, how many Volcarona were trying to set up on my Zapdos and were just roared away, condemned to take SR damage once again !
How many Jirachi (let's say Rain isn't up for the moment) do switch to tank my hits and just receive a strong Heat Wave, then how many Politoed came in to take the second Heat Wave and switch the weather at the same time, just ate a Discharge !
Heat Wave + Discharge (as I'm using Discharge for the lovely Paralysis like Scald's burn) is just so good a combo to play with. It can hurt alot of things in Rain Teams and Sun Teams.
Zapdos' bulkyness is just really cool, and imo it's an underrated and versatile (can work in baton passing, use a U-turn set, be offensive or defensive etc.) pokemon right now.

[ChrisTehAwesome]

The spD set has really annoyed me in some recent games as a stop to my RP genesect sweep. While +1 Ice Beam deals 72.06 - 85.11% to spd zapdos, If my bug doesn't get the right boost it's going to have to rely on a heat wave miss. And if I don't have rocks up then I have to switch out. Possibly one of the only good leads against scarf genesect, especially once it gets lightningrod.

[Krizse727]

I always think Zapdos as a defender so i like the stally one...

Zapdos@leftovers
Ability:pressure/Lightningrod
EVs: 192Def / 252Spd / 64Spe
Nature: Calm / Bold
~thunderbolt / (Thunder recommended in rain teams)
~Toxic
~Sky Drop
~Roost

I know I am not good at this, but i'm new to this forum stuff XD
anyways hope you enjoy the set ;)

[Ruskittlez]

Originally Posted by Fat Krizse727

I always think Zapdos as a defender so i like the stally one...

Zapdos@leftovers
Ability:pressure/Lightningrod
EVs: 192Def / 252Spd / 64Spe
Nature: Calm / Bold
~thunderbolt / (Thunder recommended in rain teams)
~Toxic
~Sky Drop
~Roost

I know I am not good at this, but i'm new to this forum stuff XD
anyways hope you enjoy the set ;)

This is the set I used to use, but with Substitute over Sky Drop for when you force out a Politoed or something along those lines.
I've switched from a toxic stalling Zapdos to a thunder waving Zapdos in BW2 though because the metagame is a lot more offensive now, and I can't see Zapdos staying in on as many opponents. (Same set just - toxic, skydrop + thunderwave and volt switch)

[evillocke]

Originally Posted by Fat Ruskittlez

This is the set I used to use, but with Substitute over Sky Drop for when you force out a Politoed or something along those lines.
I've switched from a toxic stalling Zapdos to a thunder waving Zapdos in BW2 though because the metagame is a lot more offensive now, and I can't see Zapdos staying in on as many opponents. (Same set just - toxic, skydrop + thunderwave and volt switch)

Well, that seems very interesting. I never even thought of sky drop. Thunder wave cripples all offensive threats in the OU meta right now. In fact, the meta in OU has become so offensive that stall is non-existant right now.

[Dracule Mihawk]

Echoing what everyone else has commented, I believe as of now the best set that Zapdos should run is the Sdef set. The fact it can counter Torna T so well is awesome, but when its Dream world ability will be released there is no doubt it will become the premier double genie counter (barring Lando). I use it in Rain occasionally as his Thunder is quite potent, and it does not lose me momentum. Otherwise running it outside of rain as Scarf Wynaut has said it stops SD scizor. Zapdos was one of my favourite mons in DPP, and I can't wait for Lightning rod to be released so he can use his full potential.

[evillocke]

Originally Posted by Fat Dracule Mihawk

Echoing what everyone else has commented, I believe as of now the best set that Zapdos should run is the Sdef set. The fact it can counter Torna T so well is awesome, but when its Dream world ability will be released there is no doubt it will become the premier double genie counter (barring Lando). I use it in Rain occasionally as his Thunder is quite potent, and it does not lose me momentum. Otherwise running it outside of rain as Scarf Wynaut has said it stops SD scizor. Zapdos was one of my favourite mons in DPP, and I can't wait for Lightning rod to be released so he can use his full potential.

Interesting point. Maybe use HP Water in rain to OHKO Lando too? Lighting rod fucks all electric types, making it safe to run electric-weak pokemon.

[ClubbingSealCub]

Originally Posted by Fat evillocke

Interesting point. Maybe use HP Water in rain to OHKO Lando too? Lighting rod fucks all electric types, making it safe to run electric-weak pokemon.

Why HP Water when you can use HP Ice, though?

[Onicon]

Firstly, HP Water OHKOs Landorus(-T) in Rain as long as it has no investment in bulk. Secondly, the mons that is hit hard by HP Water are Volcanora (overlap with Thunder), Mamoswine (OHKO in Rain), Terrakion (OHKO in Rain after SR, works with Thunder, too, albeit shaky) while you loose to Breloom (Stone Edge), Hydreigon (Draco Meteor) and a number of fast and weak-to-Ice dragons, in the case Substitute is used, which is likely because evillocke was talking about Landorus, who is faster.

[TheStriker]

Once Lightningrod is here, all Zapdos does is switch, set up agility and then sweep with 100% accurate Thunder in rain or thunderbolt outside of it. Lightningrod will garuntee its departure out of UU because it will hit 524 after a boost letting it sweep easily. Watch this thing get Hurricane in Gen VI and become #1 Rain Sweeper and on top 10 sweepers. Its crazy

[evillocke]

Originally Posted by Fat Onicon

Firstly, HP Water OHKOs Landorus(-T) in Rain as long as it has no investment in bulk. Secondly, the mons that is hit hard by HP Water are Volcanora (overlap with Thunder), Mamoswine (OHKO in Rain), Terrakion (OHKO in Rain after SR, works with Thunder, too, albeit shaky) while you loose to Breloom (Stone Edge), Hydreigon (Draco Meteor) and a number of fast and weak-to-Ice dragons, in the case Substitute is used, which is likely because evillocke was talking about Landorus, who is faster.

Exactly. RP Lando and Physical Lando will give this guy trouble, you have to hope to nail it on the switch with an HP water. Breloom hardly runs Stone Edge Anymore, Hydriegon is a bitch, and other dragons are a problem, yes, but that is what team support is for.

[alkinesthetase]

physical landorus is a catastrophe for zapdos, but you shouldn't be running physically defensive zapdos in OU in the first place, nor should you be using zapdos to counter physical landorus; most of the things you'd want to take on with that typing will have an SE coverage move. but zapdos counters special landorus easily.

the reason sdef zapdos works so well is because of hidden power ice being so incredibly weak. many special attackers will need ice coverage to hit zapdos SE, and it usually doesn't accomplish much without specs. you really need to see these calcs if you haven't seen them before. zapdos counters shit like RP special landorus all day long. the ice coverage does absolutely nothing


252 SpA Life Orb Landorus Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 236+ SpD Zapdos: 146-172 (38.12 - 44.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
248 SpA Genesect Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 236+ SpD Zapdos: 154-182 (40.2 - 47.51%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus-T Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 236+ SpD Zapdos: 169-200 (44.12 - 52.21%) -- guaranteed 3HKO


the vast majority of ice attacks in OU are unstabbed, which means most sdef tanks can take them quite well even super effectively. this is why latias also counters RP landorus, for example. you need to be careful about rocks when using ZD because a lot of these things turn into 2hkos with a bit of hazard damage, but zapdos can, in a vacuum, deal with them very well

[Antihaxxer]

Why HP Ice instead of Stone Edge for Lando T ?

[Dracule Mihawk]

Originally Posted by Fat Antihaxxer

Why HP Ice instead of Stone Edge for Lando T ?

He's just using it an example, the point being hidden power ice is weak against sdef Zapdos. But it's vital to try your best to keep SR off your side of the field to really maximize the defense potential of zapdos. As SR shaving off hp as alk stated can turn 3HKOS into 2HKOS. It is quite annoying that zapdos has an sr weakness, but regardless it is still an awesome defensive mon. Lightning Rod will be a welcome addition to its repertoire to give it a kick to his awesome base 125 special attack.

[alkinesthetase]

Why HP Ice instead of Stone Edge for Lando T ?

because, as i said in the first sentence of my post, only an idiot uses zapdos to counter PHYSICAL landorus. the vast majority of landorus-T are physical (no sheer force makes the special attacks relatively unremarkable) so it's not relevant to zapdos calcs - you should never be switching zapdos in on landorus-T in the first place. i showed the HP ice calc because i was referring specifically to special landorus-I (emphasis on SPECIAL) and to zapdos's ability to counter it.