ASB Feedback & Game Issues Thread (New Proposal Handling System in OP)

[Yarnus of Bethany]

I agree completely with the above post.
We need a change, and it should change as little as possible apart from the problem it's trying to fix.

[Leethoof]

Leave no silly evolution method behind!

Originally Posted by Fat Items

Relic Crown: Increases the Pokemon's Special Attack by one (1) Rank. AncientPower is raised to 9 BAP/7 EN.

Cost: 8 | Affected Pokemon: Tangela, Tangrowth, Piloswine, Mamoswine, Yanma, Yanmega


Chargestone: Increases the Pokemon's Special Attack by one (1) Rank. The BAP of Rock, Steel, and Electric-type moves is increased by one (1).

Cost: 8 | Affected Pokemon: Magneton, Magnezone, Nosepass, Probopass, Bolderdash, Stratagem


Monkey Doll: Increases the Pokemon's Attack by one (1) Rank. All moves with less than six (6) BAP are boosted to six (6) BAP. Multi-hit moves are ignored for this effect.

Cost: 8 | Affected Pokemon: Aipom, Ambipom


Casteliacone: Increases the Pokemon's Defense and Special Defense by one (1) Rank each. The Pokemon has a constant Defense Curl effect in place, including the +1 Defense.

Cost: 8 | Affected Pokemon: Lickitung, Lickylicky

[Arcanite]

Surely casteliacone should affect Vanilluxe?

[Complications]

...Speaking of signature items, a while back on IRC we where discussing how Pokemon who evolve via friendship evolve by leveling up when friendship is high enough, and as such, can use both the Rare Candy and the Soothe Bell. Earlier today, Pwnemon and I where discussing Dusknoir when I compared its stats holding Link Cable to Dusclops' when holding the Eviolite (Me making the assumption that Link Cable was applicable to Dusknoir), when Pwnemon pointed out that it was not applicable. Seeing as Dusknoir technically evolves through a trade, and the same principle affects Pokemon that evolve via friendship, should the Link Cable be changed to affect all Pokemon that evolve through trade, or should Pokemon that evolve through Friendship be changed so that they can't hold Rare Candy?

[waterwarrior]

Rare Candy and Link Cable don't affect those mons because the items they need to evolve are already signature items. Keeping with Dusknoir, Reaper Cloth doubles the effects of Pressure and gives Dusknoir Levitate.

[Complications]

I think you misunderstand. What I'm saying is that Pokemon affected by Soothe Bell are also affected by Rare Candy because they evolve while leveling up. By the same token, Pokemon who evolve by trading with a signature item should also be able to hold Link Cable because it is an item for Pokemon who evolve via trade?

[Pwnemon]

Yet again i'll post that we need a "Damaging Priority move" substitution class, which would cover: Fake Out, Extremespeed, Sucker Punch, Quick attack, Ice Shard, Shadow Sneak, Vacuum Wave, Mach Punch, Bullet Punch, and Aqua Jet.

It's easy to see multiple scenarios in which this would be useful. A notable one is pike, in which the player often has to spend two substitutions to protect against Dragonair's Extremespeed and Aqua Jet. (Today in my tourney match, for example, Sableye had two subs: "If sucker punch in combo" and "If extremespeed in combo." This left it dreadfully open to aqua jet in combo, which could have ohkoed. EDIT: oh, lou posted. he used a quick attack combo. It KOed.) Problems such as these would be easily fixed by a sub class that is in no way overpowered, and makes just as much sense as other sub classes.

[TIO]

Agreeing with both of the above proposals. They make complete sense to me.

[Leethoof]

Arcanite, I was hard-pressed to find a relevant item for Lickylicky. I figured by practicing his tongue-licking on the ice cream, he has become skilled enough to evolve.

[Gerard]

How about making all of those one item?

X Item:

Increases the Pokemon's two (2) highest true base stats (e.g. 130 Atk, 85 SpD) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) rank each if the pokemon evolves due to having learned an specific move. If the true base stat values are equal, each Rank is raised. The Base Power of said move is increased by 50% (x1.5) and it's energy cost increases by one (1)

[TIO]

That seems nice. But I would support lowering the en cost by 1 instead of raising it.

[LouisCyphre]

16:27 imanalt literally you cant use red card if youre ordering first
16:27 imanalt its fuckign useless

Let's fix this. But how?

[Objection]

Another thing to add to the list of things brought up on IRC:

There is currently no official ruling on when the energy cost for charge-up and damaging evasive moves is paid. Arguments can be made for paying it all during the first part and arguments can be made for paying it all during the second part. In fact, arguments for both sides have been made with neither side really backing down. As such, I will propose this compromise:

For charge-up moves and damaging evasive moves, 50% of the energy cost is paid during the charge-up or evasive phase and 50% of the energy cost is paid during the hit phase.

[Pwnemon]

for refs worried about this being hard: it only matters when it comes to energy koes, so 99% of the time you can ignore it :D

[LouisCyphre]

Originally Posted by Fat Objection

For charge-up moves and damaging evasive moves, 50% of the energy cost is paid during the charge-up or evasive phase and 50% of the energy cost is paid during the hit phase.

[deadfox081]

Dodge + anything combos.

These are silly and I do not like them.

[Elevator Music]

Originally Posted by Fat deadfox081

Dodge + anything combos.

These are silly and I do not like them.

[Its_A_Random]

Yeah, I have used them enough to prove that Dodge should have its CT reverted to None.

It is a sheer example of Priority Creep; that is, you use it to bump the priority of a move. I can give many examples as to why we should do exactly this. I know why its CT was changed to Deferring, but I am not going to say it here. What is next, Dodge + Double Team? Yeah, I am definitely going to try & put this through the council when given the chance. Dodge combos are terrible.

[Objection]

Originally Posted by Fat Its_A_Random

Yeah, I have used them enough to prove that Dodge should have its CT reverted to None.

From a game mechanics and game balance perspective, I support this.

[LouisCyphre]

Supporting [CT: None] Dodge.

[Athenodoros]

Most people who have posted saw me raging about Dodge combos on IRC yesterday, but I don't support [CT: None].

The reason for this is that some combinations actually make sense - think Dodge + AgiliDodge. We just need not to be stupid about combinations involving Dodge like we have been. So, suggesting IAR's wording from yesterday, which he either forgot or decided against for whatever reason:

[03:08] <%IAR> "Dodge can only be suitably combined with moves classed as Evasive or Evasive Damaging Moves in the substitution categories rules."

As a fairly blunt instrument to fix the problem.

[deadfox081]

Nope, that still gives everyone the ability to use priority Dig/Bounce/Fly. I support Dodge as CT: None.

[Athenodoros]

As I understand the combination rules atm, this would give priorities of +3/+1 for the two stages, which I'd be fine with. It's a big combination to dodge a priority move and hit back. It's not like it would be that unbalanced if I'm reading it correctly.

EDIT: Oh, I see what you mean. And true.

[deadfox081]

I don't like that its giving your almost dead Camerupt/Eelektross/other horribly slow mon a priority move to hit with before they go down which they otherwise lack.

[Its_A_Random]

[03:08] <%IAR> "Dodge can only be suitably combined with moves classed as Evasive or Evasive Damaging Moves in the substitution categories rules."

That was a quick fix to stop random shit like Dodge + Taunt, but still, stuff like Dodge + Bounce is bullshit. I used it to end a Subway Run; one that was going to go to Ingo, & that is saying something. Also, as a last ditch move, I just plainly find it unacceptable. Dodge for CT: None.

Speaking of nerfing evasive moves used in combos, I would like to propose this hot-fix to Agility (Evade):

Agility: The Pokemon focuses to increase its speed two (2) stages, enabling it to maneuver much more swiftly. Agility can also be used as a +1 Priority evasive attack. Agility will evade any slower single target attack (other than perfect accuracy attacks and No Guard attacks). If used evasively, the Pokemon does not gain any speed boost. If Evasive Agility is combined with a suitable damaging move, the evasive properties granted by Evasive Agility are nullified. Evasive Agility also fails if used successively, or if used after Protect, Detect, Evasive Teleport, or the Dodge Command.

Basically, the current description implies that something like Agility (Evade) + Take Down gets to damage & evade the opponent's single target attack simultaneously. This hot-fix stops this. Also, it makes zero-sense flavour-wise with the evasive properties. Anyone in agreement?