Balanced Hackmons - Page 34

kennydarko · Nov 15th, 2012, 2:09:22 AM

Hey I put together this illusion team and it seems to be working pretty well!
Let me know what you think. 2 Dialgas!

Deoxys-Speed @ Lum Berry
Trait: Illusion
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Spore
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- U-turn

Giratina @ Leftovers
Trait: Illusion
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Roar
- Recover
- Magic Coat

Dialga @ Choice Specs
Trait: Illusion
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Spacial Rend
- Blue Flare
- Aura Sphere

Dialga @ Choice Specs
Trait: Illusion
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: null Atk
- Volt Switch
- Spacial Rend
- Blue Flare
- Aura Sphere

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Trait: Illusion
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed
- Rain Dance
- Substitute

Shedinja @ Lum Berry
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Endeavor
- Ice Shard
- Magic Coat
- Whirlwind

The Dark Hero · Nov 15th, 2012, 7:22:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat kennydarko

Hey I put together this illusion team and it seems to be working pretty well!
Let me know what you think. 2 Dialgas!

Deoxys-Speed @ Lum Berry
Trait: Illusion
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Spore
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- U-turn

Giratina @ Leftovers
Trait: Illusion
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Roar
- Recover
- Magic Coat

Dialga @ Choice Specs
Trait: Illusion
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Spacial Rend
- Blue Flare
- Aura Sphere

Dialga @ Choice Specs
Trait: Illusion
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: null Atk
- Volt Switch
- Spacial Rend
- Blue Flare
- Aura Sphere

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Trait: Illusion
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed
- Rain Dance
- Substitute

Shedinja @ Lum Berry
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Endeavor
- Ice Shard
- Magic Coat
- Whirlwind

Have we met on Showdown before?

kennydarko · Nov 15th, 2012, 8:38:35 PM

Don't think so. Maybe i played against you

~~Wobble~~ · Nov 16th, 2012, 12:38:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Arcticblast

CAP Pokemon don't exist ingame. All sets in Balanced Hackmons can be obtained ingame through the use of Action Replay or Gameshark (hence its original name, Sharkmons).

So no, CAP Pokemon will not be allowed.

To be fair, you can hack in CAPs with those sort of devices as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat verbatim

What distinguishes Dusclops from say, Shuckle, who combines an even lower HP stat and similar defenses (plus the extra item slot gained by not needing Eviolite)?

Besides the extremely obvious fact that it's a ghost.....

**Arcticblast** · Nov 16th, 2012, 9:28:55 AM

That's literally its only advantage over Shuckle. Shuckle has better defenses and lower HP, allowing it to better abuse Leech Seed. The Ghost typing in this case only matters against Rapid Spin users (Sub will block Endeavor so fuck Shedinja), and teams don't really need a spinblocker most of the time anyway.

Shuckle is also a far better staller since it's immune to Sandstorm damage, allowing you to use it to its fullest. Even if the opponent has Recover, Leech Seed + Sandstorm damage adds up quickly in Balanced Hackmons, where Leftovers is a somewhat rare item.

**verbatim** · Nov 16th, 2012, 4:39:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Wobble

To be fair, you can hack in CAPs with those sort of devices as well.

No you can't. In order to fully add in a CAP pokemon you would need to directly mess with the game's programming, something that is EXTREMELY different from a gameshark.

~~Wobble~~ · Nov 17th, 2012, 11:11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Arcticblast

That's literally its only advantage over Shuckle. Shuckle has better defenses and lower HP, allowing it to better abuse Leech Seed. The Ghost typing in this case only matters against Rapid Spin users (Sub will block Endeavor so fuck Shedinja), and teams don't really need a spinblocker most of the time anyway.

Shuckle is also a far better staller since it's immune to Sandstorm damage, allowing you to use it to its fullest. Even if the opponent has Recover, Leech Seed + Sandstorm damage adds up quickly in Balanced Hackmons, where Leftovers is a somewhat rare item.

What's your point

It's a spinblocker which is an alternative to Shuckle. If you don't like it or think something else is better, don't fucking use it. That doesn't mean it isn't viable.

This is by far the most irritating metagame to post in with just the sheer amount of condescending chest beating and now I see why no one plays this or posts in here.

I'm out.

TheOnyx · Nov 17th, 2012, 1:38:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Wobble

What's your point

It's a spinblocker which is an alternative to Shuckle. If you don't like it or think something else is better, don't fucking use it. That doesn't mean it isn't viable.

This is by far the most irritating metagame to post in with just the sheer amount of condescending chest beating and now I see why no one plays this or posts in here.

I'm out.

nearly every post i've seen you make has been rude and just mean. if you don't have something nice to say it at all.

tehy · Nov 17th, 2012, 1:41:57 PM

His point is that you submitted a set that is outclassed in almost every way, but has one small advantage, and so you and others should use that set instead. The reason you find this metagame irritating is because of the sheer variety, which means a set you make could easily be outclassed.

As for the spinblocking, this is a tier where you can use giratina, giratina-O, and even ghostceus!! (And gengar.) You shouldn't be having trouble with spinblocking anyways.

It's not "chest-beating", it's debating. No one's trying to put you down, we're trying to come up with the best ideas possible. If your set isn't that great, we're going to let you know, so you can improve, instead of just putting forth and using sub-standard sets. The point is to come up with a set we can't crush.

**Arcticblast** · Nov 17th, 2012, 3:52:40 PM

If you said it was a spinblocker from the start, this discussion would have taken on a whole different persona...

What experience have people had with non-Sand weather in BH? I know Sun is pretty powerful, but haven't seen much of anything (and almost never see Sand, the most common weather...) How would multiweather teams do in this meta where everything learns Skill Swap?

AfroThunderRule · Nov 18th, 2012, 1:31:18 AM

Dumb question, Shadow Tag is banned right? If so then does that mean Arena Trap is also banned?

Level 51 · Nov 18th, 2012, 1:53:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat AfroThunderRule

Dumb question, Shadow Tag is banned right? If so then does that mean Arena Trap is also banned?

Yes, both Arena Trap and Shadow Tag are banned.

Imanalt · Nov 18th, 2012, 1:28:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Arcticblast

If you said it was a spinblocker from the start, this discussion would have taken on a whole different persona...

What experience have people had with non-Sand weather in BH? I know Sun is pretty powerful, but haven't seen much of anything (and almost never see Sand, the most common weather...) How would multiweather teams do in this meta where everything learns Skill Swap?

ive considered making a sun team, and ive seen rain used to some effect, but i havent seen either used a huge amount so who knows :)

Gerard · Nov 18th, 2012, 2:01:02 PM

I actually tried a Flower Gift team, it's a wonderful team when it works, but sadly, it has a weakness to sand team as many of it's members are physically bulky and can tank even sun boosted attacks, still, not a lot of thing can deal with contrary Reshiram once it's behind a sub, and even without one, in the sun it could shrugg off a Nature Power if needed to.

**verbatim** · Nov 18th, 2012, 9:35:58 PM

What does Flower Gift bring over other more common methods of boosting that justifies dedication of a team slot to setting up sun?

Alan T Hick · Nov 19th, 2012, 2:43:16 PM

I've been using Rain lately, and it seems to be working well. My whole team isn't centered around it, but Drizzle Palkia with Water Spout hits like a truck.

tehy · Nov 19th, 2012, 3:12:02 PM

Verbatim, it gives a free attack boost and a free SPdef boost. Chlorophyll, which is probably the most comparable, gives two speed boosts, so at least they give equal boosts. The most interesting set i could think of would be a flower gift groudon with shift gears. In one turn, you've got +2 to attack and speed, while still boasting a great defense stat, and a good spdef stat because of the boost. With STAB Eq, one of any anti-flying moves, and fire punch/v-create, that seems like a legitimate threat. Basically, chlorophyll is probably overall better, but in order to get flower gift's boosts, you'd need two turns of setup, while chlorophyll requires only one. Keep in mind i haven't playtested this, but it seems like there may be something there.

Zowayix · Nov 19th, 2012, 5:19:36 PM

Wouldn't it be a good idea to post exactly what's banned in the first post of this thread?

Right now I can't seem to quickly find a list of what's banned.

For example, the OP only lists OHKO moves and Wonder Guard + Huge Power + Pure Power. But if I recall correctly, Arena Trap, Shadow Tag, and the move Assist are also banned. These are nowhere to be found in the OP.

**verbatim** · Nov 19th, 2012, 5:35:41 PM

Arena Trap and Shadow Tag have been added, Assist was never banned. You're probably thinking about the temporary ban on Freeze Shock when an Assist/Prankster glitch let Kyurem-B 2hko the entire tier with priority and 30% paralysis chance.

Gerard · Nov 20th, 2012, 4:41:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat verbatim

What does Flower Gift bring over other more common methods of boosting that justifies dedication of a team slot to setting up sun?

Flower Gift affected your entire party, so you have stronger sweeper without the risk of getting Blissey/Chansey to come and copy it, you're stronger and bulkier too (used it with Coil Arceus and it has served me really well) without the need of a boost, while you're reliant on sun your other 4 members are a lot harder to take down overall: Reshiran & Ho-oh being already terrifying on their own in the sun get a nice boost those Imposter's can't copy allowing him to survive the +2 Draco Meteor or kill them before they canhe same applies to Latias as she now gets x2.25 SpD, and even eviolite Chansey who makes fun of special attacker even more

mantzik32 · Nov 20th, 2012, 5:56:29 PM

Are Arceus forms without multitype + plate allowed? And what about Darm-Z?

**verbatim** · Nov 20th, 2012, 6:00:11 PM

No, in order to fully reflect 5th generation mechanics, you can't have Arceus-(Type)/Darmanitan-Z without their corresponding abilities.

TopBoss · Nov 20th, 2012, 9:51:40 PM

RMT!

Deoxys-Speed @ Leftovers
Trait: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature
- Spore
- Substitute
- Roar
- Stealth Rock

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Impish Nature
- Heart Swap
- Heal Bell
- Toxic
- Thunder Wave

Lugia @ Leftovers
Trait: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Substitute
- V-create
- Draco Meteor

Giratina @ Leftovers
Trait: Magic Bounce
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Careful Nature
- Heart Swap
- Dragon Tail
- Rapid Spin
- Spore

Escavalier @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Gyro Ball
- Toxic Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Substitute

Groudon @ Choice Band
Trait: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Trick
- Nature Power
- Stone Edge
- Heart Swap

All pretty standard sets and standard BH pokemon. I chose Lugia for my Contrary-mon because he's immune to EQ from my Groudon. As I write this, I am 6th on the ladder, so I've had a decent amount of success with this team so far; however, I would still love to see some suggestions for improvement. Thanks everyone.

Zowayix · Nov 20th, 2012, 11:19:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat verbatim

Arena Trap and Shadow Tag have been added, Assist was never banned. You're probably thinking about the temporary ban on Freeze Shock when an Assist/Prankster glitch let Kyurem-B 2hko the entire tier with priority and 30% paralysis chance.

What was this glitch?

Ithilanor · Nov 21st, 2012, 12:04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Zowayix

What was this glitch?

Freeze Shock wasn't taking a turn to charge when Assist selected it.

Nov 15th, 2012, 2:09:22 AM	#826
kennydarko Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 2	Hey I put together this illusion team and it seems to be working pretty well! Let me know what you think. 2 Dialgas! Deoxys-Speed @ Lum Berry Trait: Illusion EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd Jolly Nature - Spore - Stealth Rock - Taunt - U-turn Giratina @ Leftovers Trait: Illusion EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd Timid Nature - Rapid Spin - Roar - Recover - Magic Coat Dialga @ Choice Specs Trait: Illusion EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd Modest Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Volt Switch - Spacial Rend - Blue Flare - Aura Sphere Dialga @ Choice Specs Trait: Illusion EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd Modest Nature IVs: null Atk - Volt Switch - Spacial Rend - Blue Flare - Aura Sphere Ferrothorn @ Leftovers Trait: Illusion EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef Bold Nature IVs: 0 Spd - Gyro Ball - Leech Seed - Rain Dance - Substitute Shedinja @ Lum Berry Trait: Sturdy EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd Jolly Nature - Endeavor - Ice Shard - Magic Coat - Whirlwind Last edited by kennydarko; Nov 15th, 2012 at 2:46:17 AM.

Nov 16th, 2012, 9:28:55 AM	#830
Arcticblast is going goat Moderator Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 2,976 #serperiors Mentor	That's literally its only advantage over Shuckle. Shuckle has better defenses and lower HP, allowing it to better abuse Leech Seed. The Ghost typing in this case only matters against Rapid Spin users (Sub will block Endeavor so fuck Shedinja), and teams don't really need a spinblocker most of the time anyway. Shuckle is also a far better staller since it's immune to Sandstorm damage, allowing you to use it to its fullest. Even if the opponent has Recover, Leech Seed + Sandstorm damage adds up quickly in Balanced Hackmons, where Leftovers is a somewhat rare item. __________________ New to Smogon? Afraid to jump into discussion? Introduce yourself! ------------------- Fail Cup \| Scramble! \| RMTs: Blistering Sands (BH) Night Stall (OU) \| ARcTicblast \| Demon Spawn \| signature art by Zracknel additional credit to Pocket and AccidentalGreed

Nov 17th, 2012, 3:52:40 PM	#835
Arcticblast is going goat Moderator Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 2,976 #serperiors Mentor	If you said it was a spinblocker from the start, this discussion would have taken on a whole different persona... What experience have people had with non-Sand weather in BH? I know Sun is pretty powerful, but haven't seen much of anything (and almost never see Sand, the most common weather...) How would multiweather teams do in this meta where everything learns Skill Swap? __________________ New to Smogon? Afraid to jump into discussion? Introduce yourself! ------------------- Fail Cup \| Scramble! \| RMTs: Blistering Sands (BH) Night Stall (OU) \| ARcTicblast \| Demon Spawn \| signature art by Zracknel additional credit to Pocket and AccidentalGreed

Nov 19th, 2012, 5:19:36 PM	#843
Zowayix Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 326 USA	Wouldn't it be a good idea to post exactly what's banned in the first post of this thread? Right now I can't seem to quickly find a list of what's banned. For example, the OP only lists OHKO moves and Wonder Guard + Huge Power + Pure Power. But if I recall correctly, Arena Trap, Shadow Tag, and the move Assist are also banned. These are nowhere to be found in the OP. __________________ Writing a haiku With seventeen syllables Is really diffi--

Nov 15th, 2012, 8:38:35 PM	#828
kennydarko Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 2	Don't think so. Maybe i played against you

Nov 17th, 2012, 1:41:57 PM	#834
tehy Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,158	His point is that you submitted a set that is outclassed in almost every way, but has one small advantage, and so you and others should use that set instead. The reason you find this metagame irritating is because of the sheer variety, which means a set you make could easily be outclassed. As for the spinblocking, this is a tier where you can use giratina, giratina-O, and even ghostceus!! (And gengar.) You shouldn't be having trouble with spinblocking anyways. It's not "chest-beating", it's debating. No one's trying to put you down, we're trying to come up with the best ideas possible. If your set isn't that great, we're going to let you know, so you can improve, instead of just putting forth and using sub-standard sets. The point is to come up with a set we can't crush.

Nov 18th, 2012, 1:31:18 AM	#836
AfroThunderRule I suck. Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 415 New York City	Dumb question, Shadow Tag is banned right? If so then does that mean Arena Trap is also banned?

Nov 18th, 2012, 2:01:02 PM	#839
Gerard Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 3,005 Mmm... Ice Cream!	I actually tried a Flower Gift team, it's a wonderful team when it works, but sadly, it has a weakness to sand team as many of it's members are physically bulky and can tank even sun boosted attacks, still, not a lot of thing can deal with contrary Reshiram once it's behind a sub, and even without one, in the sun it could shrugg off a Nature Power if needed to.

Nov 18th, 2012, 9:35:58 PM	#840
verbatim legends blurred and torn Moderator Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 1,067 United States	What does Flower Gift bring over other more common methods of boosting that justifies dedication of a team slot to setting up sun?

Nov 19th, 2012, 2:43:16 PM	#841
Alan T Hick Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 2	I've been using Rain lately, and it seems to be working well. My whole team isn't centered around it, but Drizzle Palkia with Water Spout hits like a truck.

Nov 19th, 2012, 3:12:02 PM	#842
tehy Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,158	Verbatim, it gives a free attack boost and a free SPdef boost. Chlorophyll, which is probably the most comparable, gives two speed boosts, so at least they give equal boosts. The most interesting set i could think of would be a flower gift groudon with shift gears. In one turn, you've got +2 to attack and speed, while still boasting a great defense stat, and a good spdef stat because of the boost. With STAB Eq, one of any anti-flying moves, and fire punch/v-create, that seems like a legitimate threat. Basically, chlorophyll is probably overall better, but in order to get flower gift's boosts, you'd need two turns of setup, while chlorophyll requires only one. Keep in mind i haven't playtested this, but it seems like there may be something there.

Nov 19th, 2012, 5:35:41 PM	#844
verbatim legends blurred and torn Moderator Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 1,067 United States	Arena Trap and Shadow Tag have been added, Assist was never banned. You're probably thinking about the temporary ban on Freeze Shock when an Assist/Prankster glitch let Kyurem-B 2hko the entire tier with priority and 30% paralysis chance.

Nov 20th, 2012, 5:56:29 PM	#846
mantzik32 Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 27	Are Arceus forms without multitype + plate allowed? And what about Darm-Z?

Nov 20th, 2012, 6:00:11 PM	#847
verbatim legends blurred and torn Moderator Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 1,067 United States	No, in order to fully reflect 5th generation mechanics, you can't have Arceus-(Type)/Darmanitan-Z without their corresponding abilities.

Nov 20th, 2012, 9:51:40 PM	#848
TopBoss Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 1	RMT! Deoxys-Speed @ Leftovers Trait: Mold Breaker EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd Hasty Nature - Spore - Substitute - Roar - Stealth Rock Blissey (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Imposter EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd Impish Nature - Heart Swap - Heal Bell - Toxic - Thunder Wave Lugia @ Leftovers Trait: Contrary EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd Modest Nature - Psycho Boost - Substitute - V-create - Draco Meteor Giratina @ Leftovers Trait: Magic Bounce Shiny: Yes EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd Careful Nature - Heart Swap - Dragon Tail - Rapid Spin - Spore Escavalier @ Leftovers Trait: Flash Fire Shiny: Yes EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef Sassy Nature IVs: 0 Spd - Gyro Ball - Toxic Spikes - Leech Seed - Substitute Groudon @ Choice Band Trait: Prankster Shiny: Yes EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd Adamant Nature - Trick - Nature Power - Stone Edge - Heart Swap All pretty standard sets and standard BH pokemon. I chose Lugia for my Contrary-mon because he's immune to EQ from my Groudon. As I write this, I am 6th on the ladder, so I've had a decent amount of success with this team so far; however, I would still love to see some suggestions for improvement. Thanks everyone.