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Nov 11th, 2012, 9:39:31 PM
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#1 |
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 32
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The Scientific Method
Status: Not playing too much because of school, but would really like to have some more rates! :)
Peaked at 1711 (Pokemon Showdown) The Scientific Method          Purpose: Hello, fellow Smogonites! I have been a fan of Smogon since I discovered there was competitive Pokemon in Generation IV. I play competitive Pokemon very lightly and just for occasional fun, so I feel that I may not know the metagame front to back, BUT I do feel that I have enough experience to battle intelligently. I have looked at many Smogon analyses and RMTs to get a feel for what each metagame is like. I played standard Black/White OU and NU and enjoyed them both very much. However, B/W 2 recently came out and I decided to stay away from the new metagame because it would be a hectic environment with all the new potential toys to play with. Now that it was somewhat settled down, I decided to give it a try. The purpose of this RMT is to get some advice on what to look out for in this new metagame because I am very new to it (this is my first team). Also, to hopefully make a team that will be successful under any player's hands. Any form of criticism is welcomed! Oh! And the theme of this team revolves around the Scientific Method because I have been doing so much studying for organic chemistry and biology in college that I can't think of anything but science... I go to the University of Washington, if anyone lives around that area! :) Research
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Hypothesis: My hypothesis is: If I wear off my opponent's team enough, then I should be able to sweep with my set-up Pokemon because they will not be able to stop the forward momentum. In other words, my general strategy is to wear down the opponent's team enough for Salamence or Conkeldurr to set-up enough that nothing in the other team can stop it. So it is definitely more offensive than defensive. Procedure:  IONIC (Terrakion) @ Focus Sash Trait: Justified EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd Jolly Nature - Stealth Rock - Close Combat - Stone Edge - Taunt Terrakion is my "lead" Pokemon. Although I don't always use him as my lead. I discovered this moveset by looking at a few RMTs and loved the uniqueness of it because in all B/W OU I played, I never saw this set. However, I realized that if it was in a few RMTs, then it must be somewhat popular (yet I haven't seen it so far). The reason I used Terrakion is because he can hit like a mothertrucker with his awesome and unique STABs and massive attack stat. The focus sash is the most amazing thing about this set. It allows 100% set up of stealth rocks on the other team if they have a strong weakness to it. Also, when I am in a corner and stealth rock isn't on my side of the field, I will use him to revenge kill almost anything because he'll survive the hit with focus sash intact and kill it with his strong attacks. He is named IONIC because he is made of minerals which are usually ionic compounds.  e- (Genesect) @ Choice Scarf Trait: Download EVs: 92 Atk / 252 SAtk / 164 Spd Naive Nature - U-turn - Ice Beam - Flamethrower - Thunderbolt This is definitely the ultimate choice-scrafer. In a metagame that centralizes around this Pokemon, it is hard not to use it because it's that good. It's one of those Pokemon that you hate fighting against, but love using. I definitely lead with it quite often because it can U-turn out of any threat or incoming switch, then switch into the appropriate check/counter to the opponent's Pokemon. It's Download ability is godsend and any boost is handy at any time. Sometimes I wish it wasn't locked into one move because then the next Pokemon (who generally resists the attack) will come in and I usually won't have a safe switch in since my team is sort of leaning towards Hyper Offensive and has only decent bulk. However, the speed is necessary for Genesect to do the job I want it to do. I wanted a cools scientific name for it and I thought the abbreviation for electrons would be a fitting name.  Hydroxyl (Rotom-Wash) @ Chesto Berry Trait: Levitate EVs: 248 HP / 28 SAtk / 228 SDef / 4 Spd Calm Nature - Volt Switch - Will-O-Wisp - Hydro Pump - Rest This little washing machine is a great defensive pivot point because it has amazing synergy with my powerhouses. I use it to take a resisted hit and then disable incoming Pokemon with Will-O-Wisp or switch out with Volt Switch (or even a dry switch). I discovered this set looking a Princess Bri's RMT and seemed like it would be fitting for my team (since Rotom-W was a later addition to my team). The chesto berry proves more useful than just an instant recovery to Rest. It also adds as Rotom's way of countering Breloom. Generally, when a Breloom comes in, Rotom-W needs to get out before getting demolished by a technician Bullet Seed. The Opponent will predict this and use Spore against my "incoming" threat; However, I will predict this prediction (which always happens) and stay in, use my Will-O-Wisp to disable the Breloom. I named it Hydroxyl because organic chemistry is killing me! XD  Newton 1st (Salamence) (M) @ Lum Berry Trait: Moxie EVs: 252 Atk/ 8 SAtk 248 Spd Naive Nature - Dragon Dance - Fire Blast - Outrage - Earthquake This dragon is a beast. He is my main sweeper, so I usually keep him healthy until midgame time. Once he gets at least one Dragon Dance in, it is almost impossible to stop him. With each kill, he gets more and more impossible to stop and can sweep a whole team if they don't have priority ice shard or steel-types (which both are common) thanks to Moxie. I haven't found a time that I would have wished I had Intimidate, so Moxie is good. Although his checks and counters are pretty common, I am able to get through them generally easy. I will always try to use Fire Blast or Earthquake to get the weaker kills because I need to conserve Outrage until after the opponent's team is eliminated of steel-types. The Lum Berry comes in handy if the opponent tries to put it to sleep or after an outrage-induced confusion. Just like Newton's First Law of Motion, "An object in motion, stays in motion." I did mention in the team building section that I picked him because after one Dragon Dance he'll out speed Genesect (which is important because it can revenge kill with Ice Beam), but I realized the Smogon copy & paste moveset's speed EVs causes Salamence to be out sped still. However, I am not experienced in why EVs are the way they are, so I am not sure if this new EV spread is efficient or not.  Somite (Latias) (F) @ Life Orb Trait: Levitate EVs: 152 HP / 176 SAtk / 180 Spd Modest Nature - Draco Meteor - Hidden Power [Fire] - Surf - Roost I definitely have mixed feelings of this Latias set. It's like the jack of all trades, but excels in none. The defense is good enough for pivot points; just like Reuniclus. The diverse special attacks can severely damage almost anything. The speed is just enough to outspeed slower targets. However, at times I wished it was more defense, or more offensive, and more speedy. I've never liked Life Orb, but this is an exception because without it, I know she won't be offensive enough for my liking (She's already too "weak" even with it). Definitely the speed is what's most troublesome. I sort of wish it was max speed in order to outspeed other Latias/Latios, but that would make it deviate too much from what I really need. Strangely, it's this averageness that makes her such an important team player and pivot point. Even though I made it seem like she's dispensable, it's actually the opposite. She gives just enough of everything that I need. Named her Somite because of her versatility like how our Somite cells can become anything from limbs to muscles to organs.  Kinase (Breloom) (M) @ Fighting Gem Trait: Technician EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spd Jolly Nature - Spore - Mach Punch - Bullet Seed - Swords Dance I have always loved Breloom. I fell in love with it's Bulk Up set during B/W era, but this new B/W 2 set is amazing too. That fighting gem is so versatile. I always conserve it until my opponent least expects it. It definitely accumulated a lot of crucial KOs. I try to use Spore sparingly because I want to make sure the Pokemon that would cause the most trouble is debilitated for the rest of the battle (instead of putting something that was essentially deathfodder for the other team to sleep). I don't know if it's just my luck, but Bullet Seed usually only hits twice most of the time, which isn't very strong. Breloom definitely isn't as bulky as Conkeldurr, but definitely hits hard and the sleep-inducing capability is very welcomed. His name is Kinase because his punches exert a lot of energy, yet he can also be very conservative, which is just like the job of Kinase. Kinase transports phosphates and causes certain molecules to be active and inactive. Importable Procedure:
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Trial and Error:
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Analysis Through playtesting, I noticed that my biggest weakness may be Sun teams. As soon as they bring a Venusaur out with the sun glowing strong, I know I lost. None of my members can counter it. Which is why I might change a team member in order to defeat sun teams. Out of all the members, probably Conkeldurr or Reuniclus may be the most expendable. Also, Rain team gives me some problems because none of my Pokemon can really take a rain-boosted hydro pump, but it's not as dangerous as Sun teams. I haven't fought any baton pass teams yet, but I know I've always had problems against baton pass teams, so those are probably a threat. I'm not very good at pointing out threats, but this covers everything that comes off the top of my head. EDIT: With my new team, I can't really say which one is most expendable because they are all great synergy-wise, but I've noticed that I'm having trouble with Latios (before I had Reuniclus to check it) and still having problems with rain because my only true check to rain is Rotom-W. Also, I have yet to fight Venusaur with my new team, so I do not know how well it will fare against sun teams. Conclusion Overall, I really enjoyed making this RMT. It allowed me to think about my team and hopefully get some advice to improve on it. I feel that this team is a very successful one because I am only a casual battler and reaching 1700 seems decent. I worked really hard to make sure this RMT looked pretty for your viewing pleasures. Soooo let the rates begin! (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ ┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ) Last edited by smileydude689; Nov 21st, 2012 at 1:49:02 AM. |
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Nov 11th, 2012, 10:53:32 PM
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#2 |
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Cause you keep me coming back for more
 
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Hi,
Nice team! Your RMT was formatted quite nicely- good job on that. Since the team itself looks quite solid, I'll just touch upon the problem of Salamence's spread, and then get into more detail. Since outspeeding Genesect is obviously important, a spread of 8 HP / 252 Spe / 248 Atk Jolly would definitely be better. (The current spread was made back when Genesect was still in DW.) That is the minimum speed needed to outpace Genesect. Since your team does lack bulk / speed, I do see the problem of getting plowed through by Sun / Rain powerhouses. If you wanted to keep your relatively bulkier team nature, you could go for Dragonite instead of Salamence. It has the bulk that Mence doesn't that allows it to take hits- instead of being frailer and just run over by faster, more powerful attackers. On the other hand, you could go for a bit more offense and replace Conkeldurr / Reuniclus with Breloom / Latias instead of replacing Mence. It's a much bigger change, but it's the direction I personally would go towards, because offense needs to be kept up in teams like yours with Volt Turn and Lead Terrakion. Latias has the bulk to take on Rain and sun, but also the power to hit things fairly hard with Life Orb and STAB. Her bulk and speed will also be hugely useful, cleaning up after Salamence sweeps keeping your pressure up. Breloom on the other hand helps you against already set up sweepers as well as slower support pokemon such as Forretress or Ferrothorn. It's Spore will be hugely helpful by buying Salamence time to set up, and powerful Bullet Seed that destroys bulky waters will definitely open the way for Sala. It's typing also helps vs Rain somewhat, though you shouldn't let it take too many hits. Your team looks decent right now, though some inbalance strategy wise may cause the team to not work at full efficiency. There are a few changes that you could make, and the sets are down below. Good luck! TLDR: Salamence --> 8 HP / 252 Atk / 248+ Spe Salamence --> Dragonite OR Conkeldurr / Reuniclus --> Breloom / Latias
sets
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Stuff (Click!):  l  l  l  l  l  l  l  l  l  l  VM me for an OU / LC team rate! MURKBRO MAFIA  Last edited by Electrolyte; Nov 11th, 2012 at 11:03:59 PM. |
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Nov 12th, 2012, 12:45:41 PM
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#3 |
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 32
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Thanks, Electrolyte, for the rate!
I am glad my RMT is formatted nicely. I have seen enough RMTs to understand that only aesthetically pleasing ones get good rates. Haha. I actually do not mind these changes that much because I have used all three of them during B/W 1 and understand their strengths. I think I might go with the Conkeldurr/Reuniclus to Breloom/Latias route. Dragonite is definitely a beast, but the problem is that his speed is underwhelming at times when I need it because he really requires at least two dragon dances to be speedy. However, I will change the EVs for Salamence. I have used Bulk Up Breloom and Calm mind Latias with Roar and mono-dragon coverage. Both of which were amazing for the specific team I had. But I guess Technician Breloom is a new fun toy to play with and that Latias set should be good as a check against sun teams. I have not tested these sets yet, but I feel like these will be good changes to make. My only reserve is losing some status immunity and some bulk. But I do gain a reliable sun team check (which remedies my weather problems) and sleep-inducer. If I have any problems or need help, I'll keep you updated. |
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Nov 12th, 2012, 4:21:18 PM
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#4 |
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Nobody is safe from the power of science!
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 690
Italy
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Hey, I don't have much advices for you since Electrolyte covered the most glaring problems (not that they were glaring at all, team seems solid and can work even in its original incarnation I guess) but had to post to say that I really love your presentation, that scientific theme is awesome to my eyes!
Maybe the only slight change I would do is to switch to 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 something on Reuniclus. While I suspect those 64 Def EVs are useful to hit some obscure benchmark that the Smogon onsite analysis doesn't mention, 252 HP Reuniclus is OHKO'd 6.25% of the times by +2 +Speed LO Venusaur with Sludge Bomb (arguably the best variant, although not the most common...yet) so it makes a semi-reliable counter to a poke that otherwise just plows through your team as you mentioned. Other than this, I support Electrolyte's suggestions; good luck for your team!
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Counter that Pokemon project: Mk III (over) & Warstory | Mk IV (running) RMTs: The HOutsiders (also the other ones if anyone likes lurking my old posts) Not accepting rating requests anymore. Sorry!
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Nov 12th, 2012, 5:30:47 PM
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#5 |
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If our love is tragedy, why are you my remedy?
 
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Hey there,
This is a pretty cool team, and I am glad to see more people utilizing DDMence in this meta. It is an extremely underrated sweeper who has potential to do a lot of damage. However, one of DDMence's best quality's in this meta is its good speed stat and its ability to outspeed Scarf Genesect. Your current set doesn't take advantage of this, so I would heavily recommend 8 HP / 248 Atk / 252 Spd with a Jolly Nature. You seem to like 8 HP, so I took 4 out of attack rather than speed. This helps a lot vs opposing Scarf Jirachi's and Salamence's, as you can now speed tie them and are harder to revenge. Also to help with your weakness to sun teams, I would recommend Specially Defensive Zapdos over Rotom-W. Zapdos gives you a considerable amount of Special Bulk, much like Rotom-W, but it isn't as weak to Venusaur. It is still a fantastic check to Rain sweepers, like Tornadus-T, and can be very difficult for some rain teams to take down. Hope I helped.
set
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Nov 20th, 2012, 1:10:16 AM
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#6 |
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 32
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Sorry for the hiatus of sorts. I was busy with midterms last week (had calculus, biology, and organic chemistry midterms all the same week). I have played a few games with the newest members and love them as much as the original team, so thank you, Electrolyte for the advice.
@ganj4lF Thank you for the compliment. I really enjoyed presenting my team in a scientific and innovative way. It was a fun way of coping with my stress. Haha! I haven't tested out the Reuniclus because I went ahead and used Electrolyte's replacement members. However, I am sure that EV spread is better because it never seemed like Reuniclus used those defense EVs well. @dragonuser From what you said, it seems like DDMence is rare, which I am shocked because it sweeps my opponents like a broom to dust bunnies (...I know... Bad analogy. I'm tired xD). And I did change my Salamence's EVs and nature, but forgot to edit the team at the time you posted. Also, not that I don't mind your recommendation, I won't replace Rotom-W with Zapdos because then I would truly lose my water-resist which I find very important. So here's my little bump, but I definitely edited my team and hope for some more rates because I put so much effort into this RMT. Thanks to everyone who has posted because all your guys' response were helpful. EDIT: Also, I kind of want to try Rock Polish Genesect, do you guys think that will deviate too much from my current set-up? Do you think it's unoriginal since it seems be very popular as of late? Also, if I were to do that, what is a good replacement choice-scarfer? |
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Nov 20th, 2012, 8:50:54 AM
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#7 |
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Swell
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 408
VM for an OU rate
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Hi
Cool team. First off, I wouldn't use RP genesect as your team as you have 3 great set up sweepers already, and gene really ties up their common weakness to DDnite as well as serving as an all purpose revenge killer/ scout in general. Anyway just a few nitpicks, I would seriously reccomend you change your breloom spread to 220HP/ 252Atk / 36spe with an Adamant nature. Considering breloom's poor speed tier and the fact that it doesn't do much with max speed without low sweep, the given EV's do a fair amount for him. With breloom's good set of resistances, the HP investment let him take hits a lot better than previous, letting him set up on more pokemon and not be revenge killed as easily. The little bit of speed left lets you beat standard skarmory and wobbufett, which can be helpful in lots of situations, as well as some variants of the very noteworthy god Metagross. Final nitpick, I would change your genesect spread to 92Atk/ 252SpA/ 164Spe. This spread lets you outspeed up to +1 Dnite, which is all thats nessecary really. The only targets you miss out on is +1 Hydreigon and Haxorus, the former being beaten up by breloom and the latter being hardly used and can't set up anywhere at all on the team anyway. The extra power in your U-Turn is really nice and noticeable considering it will probably be your most used move, and it can help do that little bit more damage to the other team thats needed to break them open GL with the team EDIT: A lot of specially defensive rotom-w have been popping up that carry 0 speed, so unless you feel you really need to outspeed bulky attacking rotom-w the speed isn't that needed (choice rotom-w is still out there but its rare and you lose to that either way)
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Ocean Last edited by Asek; Nov 21st, 2012 at 4:18:08 AM. |
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Nov 20th, 2012, 11:05:23 PM
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#8 |
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 60
Unda Da See
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Following up on the Salamence Ev thing. I think it would be wise to change it to 252 Atk / 4 Sdef/ 252 Spd. I do not see how Salamence benefits. By putting the extra EVs in Sdef i'm pretty sure Mence gets an extra switch in with Stealth Rocks up due to the odd number Hp stat(if you were not damaged at all when you switched in). Second +1 Salamence does not out speed a scarf Genesect, you'd need +2 for that. I may have missed something but to my knowledge +1 never out speeds.
To keep Salamence alive(and your team in general but mostly Mence), I suggest either the Defensive rapid spin Starmie over Rotom-W or Latias (I leave that up to you to decide, I'd replace Lati though). It helps with the power to spin, burn and stay alive. There is a sacrifice in team defense but I think its worth it.  Leftovers Natural Cure Timid Moveset ~ Scald ~ Psyshock / Ice Beam ~ Rapid Spin ~ Recover EVs 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe If you want you could go for the standard offense one If you want immediate power. Life Orb / Leftovers Natural Cure Timid Moveset ~ Hydro Pump / Surf ~ Ice Beam ~ Thunderbolt ~ Rapid Spin / Recover EVs 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Lastly, while not related to the team, you made this a science themed RMT right? WHERE'S COLRESS.  That's I have to say, I hope I helped and GL with the team :) |
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Nov 21st, 2012, 1:08:08 AM
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#9 |
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 32
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Before making any other Pokemon changes, I think I will experiment with some of the EV spreads people have been giving me.
@Asek Although I did say Breloom was pretty frail, I really welcome the speed EVs. I was thinking about what I need to outspeed. I think defensive Rotom-W is a priority. I'm only looking at Smogon Analysis for the common speed EVs for defensive Rotom-W which is 176 Spe, so to outspeed it, I was thinking of Breloom having this stat spread: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe Jolly Nature. I'm pretty sure most Smogon analysis are outdated, so is that a common Spe EVs for Rotom-W? I think I will try your Genesect's EV spread because it really outspeeds all the things I need it to outspeed. So thanks for that! @Zeta5 About Salamence's speed. With the given speed EVs and +speed nature, my Salamence has 327 speed and max speed, +speed nature Genesect has 326. Since the multiplier is the same, my +1 Salamence will always outspeed Choice-Scarf Genesect. Of course, I don't outspeed +2 RP Genesect, but that wasn't what I was thinking of at the time. Also, I just did the calculations and understand why it's 0 HP EVs, with 0 HP EVs, Salamence will get damaged 82.75 from stealth rocks and that rounds down to 82 in Pokemon mechanics; with 4 HP EVs, Salamence will get damaged 83 even; and lastly with 8 HP EVs, Salamence will get damaged 83.25 which rounds down to 83. So either way it's still a little "efficient", but I think I'll move the 8 HP EVs into SpAtk to give Fire Blast a little "oomph". So I'll change Salamence's EVs to 252 Atk / 8 SpAtk / 248 Spd About Starmie, I'm not going to make any other Pokemon replacements just yet. Still a little incomplete in playtesting with my current team. I'm just going to test out different EV spreads. Also, improvements to my RMT format is always welcomed too! I cannot believe I forgot Colress! His signature Magneton is one of my most favorite Pokemon! So I'm going to replace the male scientist with him (in order to keep it somewhat conserved format-wise). So quick overview of changes:  4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe ---> 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe 8 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe ---> 92 Atk / 252 SAtk / 164 Spe 8 HP / 252 Atk / 248 Spe ---> 252 Atk / 8 SAtk / 248 Spe is this even worth it? ---> Haha :)EDIT: I can't believe I forgot to say thank you in this post! So thank you two for the help and another thank you to everyone who has responded! :D |
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Nov 22nd, 2012, 8:26:36 PM
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#10 |
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 60
Unda Da See
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EDIT: I can't believe I forgot to say thank you in this post! So thank you two for the help and another thank you to everyone who has responded! :D
No problem! At least I was of help, I'm happy that Colress is there now! |
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