Ask A Little Question, Get A Little Answer

[thebrownie]

Is there any reason why only allow Pokemon that can evolve at their first stage? There is a small subset of Pokemon that have low stats and cna't evolve. A notable one is ditto. Such a pokemon, while stronger than here in other tiers (with viable hp) would likely not be game breaking and add a dynamic to the meta while giving another viable check to missey

[Vader*]

Nintendo's rules

[Shouting]

What are some good answers to Misdreavus out there besides Stunky? It doesn't seem like much can handle Shadow Ball / Hidden Power Fighting / Thunderbolt

And also another question that I have is how common Icy Wind is on it? It's all over the analysis but in the gams I've played and watched (albeit, very few) none of them seemed to carry it.

[Delver]

Even thunderbolt is pretty rare, tbh. Most misdreavus really enjoy having a substitute cause it lets them get past the number one way to kill her - Sucker punch. The priority move has a whopping 160 base after SE multipliers, and thats before STAB, hitting on her weaker physical defense side. Thusly Sucker-punch is really the best way (offensively) to deal with missy. Some good non-stunky Sucker Punchers are Houndour, Murkrow (who also retains neutrality and resistance to the two most common offensive moves (shadowball / HPfighting), and Pawniard. Pawniard and Houndour are both weak to fighting and ground though, so they maybe hard to just slap on a team. A missy of your own can deal with missy, if you're lucky on the speed tie - though thats a horrid answer. Aside from priority, Outspeeding missy is good. Strong scrafers such as Murkrow, Misdreavus, and even Porygon, can outspeed and either Outdamage or OHKO Missy depending on circumstances. Missy is such a threatening and versitile mon because it is so hard to deal with when it sets up. If you're dealing with a +2/ Sub'd Missy, you're in trouble. Keeping offensive pressure on missy when she shows up (though easier said than done) is another good way to deal with it - A move doesnt have to do SE damage to take out a Substitute.

[prem]

icy wind used to be really good, but its not really used anymore so that should probably be updated. the best way to deal with missy is basically what delver said, though you can run things like ferroseed and lileep to deal with it also. basically anything with really high spdef. timburr works opretty well also actually lol

[Chieliee]

lileep is actually not that solid of a check anymore since Taunt is becoming quite common on Missy, which means you'll end up getting yourself killed/severely weakened.

[thebrownie]

porygon is one of the best counters to missy. Twave completely cripples it.

[GC7]

Why is Murkrow categorized as NU? does that mean he isn't usuable in LC anymore?

[Elevator Music]

Originally Posted by Fat GC7

Why is Murkrow categorized as NU? does that mean he isn't usuable in LC anymore?

Murkrow is listed as NU because it can't be listed as more than one, and the OU/UU/RU/NU listing takes priority over LC. Don't worry, you can still use Murkrow~

[rcade216]

I haven't found an answer on this, so I thought I would ask here.

With the EVs listed for certain Pokémon, like Mienfoo, 156 ATK / 196 DEF / 36 SP.DEF / 76 SPD with a total of 464, would trading that Pokémon to another game keep their EVs? I know before you needed to have the effort ribbon or EVs would be lost.

[Elevator Music]

Actually, Pokemon never lose EVs when traded (or poketransfered), even if they don't have an Effort Ribbon, so you're safe :)

[rcade216]

Originally Posted by Fat Elevator Music

Actually, Pokemon never lose EVs when traded (or poketransfered), even if they don't have an Effort Ribbon, so you're safe :)

Really, I could have sworn I lost EVs when I traded between Pearl and Platinum without the effort ribbon.


Thank you for the info.

[Zowayix]

Why is Vulpix outright banned from LC, and not just the ability Drought?

[Elevator Music]

When we were deciding whether to ban Vulpix or just its ability, we decided to ban Vulpix as a whole, because we felt that banning just parts of a Pokemon is messy. The only time we've ever made an exception with this policy is when we banned Moody, because Moody is... an exception haha


EDIT: "We" being the tiering voters/policy makers/heads at the time

[TPM]

I played Gen 4 LC quite a bit, and was very fond of the meta. I'm looking to get back into it, but don't really know what to expect out of Generation 5. What are the biggest changes between the two?

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Eviolite is the single biggest change between Gen IV And V LC. Before most mons ran Oran Berry, but now the most popular item is Eviolite due to the invaluable defense boost.

[Delver]

^To expand a little bit more, Gen4 LC was (from what i understand) very "Hyper Offense" focused. teams used very fast and powerful sweepers. Thanks to eviolite Gen 5 LC has slowed down in comparison with the majority of top teir teams being some from of Bulky-offense or Balance team.

[Valafar123]

Why is it that LC is often referred to as a very offensive metagame? I haven't had much experience with the other ones, so I'm curious. It seems to contradict my experience with pokes like Hippopotas, Bronzor and Ferroseed.

Thanks in advance for an answer.

[Corkscrew]

LC has always been considered an offensive metagame because basically it was always very powerful. Because of the high powered moves being used by low levelled pokemon the damage output was always very high. If you compare it to ingame, pokemon at that level are usually using around 40BP moves. So in Gen IV it was basically impossible to run stall and matches generally lasted shorter than in other tiers.

In gen V LC isn't as offensive due to eviolite making pokemon like the ones you just mentioned very effective. With 1.5x defenses available to many pokemon the damage output is obviously a lot lower. To be honest, I wouldn't say it is overly offensive anymore and bulky teams are certainly a good playstyle. It's probably more offensive than other tiers but the difference isn't as large because in gen V offense is more common in other tiers as well.

[Valafar123]

Originally Posted by Fat Corkscrew

LC has always been considered an offensive metagame because basically it was always very powerful. Because of the high powered moves being used by low levelled pokemon the damage output was always very high. If you compare it to ingame, pokemon at that level are usually using around 40BP moves. So in Gen IV it was basically impossible to run stall and matches generally lasted shorter than in other tiers.

In gen V LC isn't as offensive due to eviolite making pokemon like the ones you just mentioned very effective. With 1.5x defenses available to many pokemon the damage output is obviously a lot lower. To be honest, I wouldn't say it is overly offensive anymore and bulky teams are certainly a good playstyle. It's probably more offensive than other tiers but the difference isn't as large because in gen V offense is more common in other tiers as well.

Ah, thanks for the answer.

[Good_Luck!]

I tried to find a match with my Shellder team and the server flashed a message stating that Shellder couldn't use Rock Blast along ONE of the moves. Further Investigation proved to me that Shellder in fact can't use Rock Blast and Icicle Spear on the same set (Icicile Spear is bred by Father Cloyster, Rock Blast is bred by Father Kingler, Omastar or Kabutops and neither move is a Level Up move). Just for the sake of my curiosity, I tried playing with a No Guard Golett with Dynamic Punch and Shadow Punch. PS! flashed the same mesage and didn't allow me to find a match.

Has PS! enforced LC Legalities?

P.S. Shellder's strategy on Smogon can't be used now...

[Hawkstar]

It's probably something to do with the new legality checker Zarel put into place. It was designed to stop Shadow Punch Golett and the like from existing, but it must have caught some false positives. It will most likely be fixed soon, though I can't speak for Zarel as to exactly when.

[Corkscrew]

Yeah, basically Zarel broke LC. SubRoost Krow is now popping up as illegal even though it is not. I spoke to Mikel earlier who said he'd speak to someone.

[Valafar123]

I won't miss SubRoost Krow while it's gone. :/

[iss]

Okay I'm looking into this.

Substitute / Roost / Brave Bird / Sucker Punch:

Level 37 Male Starly (Brave Bird) + Female Murkrow -> Male Murkrow (Brave Bird) + Female Murkrow (Brave Bird) -> Level to 55 (Sucker Punch) -> Brave Bird/Sucker Punch Level 1 Murkrow -> TM90 Substitute -> Roost Tutor

Shell Smash / Icicle Spear / Rock Blast / Razor Shell:

Level 46 Male Omanyte (Rock Blast) + Female Shellder -> Male Shellder (Rock Blast) + Female Shellder (Rock Blast) -> Level to 56 (Icicle Spear / Razor Shell / Shell Smash) -> Level 1 Shellder (Shell Smash / Icicle Spear / Rock Blast / Razor Shell)

Any combination of Egg moves + level-up moves is possible (provided the Egg move combination is legal) unless the Pokemon in question is Male/Female only or genderless.