Kyurem-B

[Siggu]

Originally Posted by Fat Enguarde

After playing match after match with Kyurem-B trying to find the the perfect set and ideal conditions for it to work in, I've found that this set below works brilliantly.


Willie (Kyurem-Black) @ Leftovers
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 116 Atk / 176 SAtk / 216 Spd
Rash Nature
- Substitute
- Outrage
- Fusion Bolt
- Blizzard

Under hail support this set can cause major damage to a large proportion of the OU tier. Ferrothorn even at its most specially defensive is 2HKO'd by blizzard when considering hail damage and definitely can't switch in on it. The mixed set is definitely Kyurem's most viable set in order for it get past the pokemon that walled it early on in suspect such as Gliscor, Ferrothorn, Forretress etc.

Obviously this set isn't meant to be unleashed early on, but once it gets behind a sub mid/late game it can clean up teams extremely fast due its raw power, deceptive speed and great coverage.

Sub is an amazing move on Kyurem-B since it can easily allow it dodge status and begin dealing dame to pokemon which don't have a way to break its sub. Although that sounds classic of most late game sweepers (especially Garchomp), Kyurem has advantages over pokemon like Garchomp since it doesn't have and Ice weakness, resists grass/water/electric and has a far great natural bulk than most late game sweepers. Key examples of this being an advantage include the ability to tank non stab u-turns and volt switches without having its sub broken, outspending most pokemon that try to cripple it with a will-o-wisp, thunder wave etc, countering rain teams with a combination of fusion bolt and blizzard, and and being able to take on the infamous Genesect unlike other dragons.

When under hail support to the residual damage really racks up on Pokemon like and Heatran who can no longer recover with leftovers, whilst Kyurem can keep on top on them by regaining health and dealing damage until the wall is Ko'd or Kyurem itself is forced out, keeping in mind that that upon being forced out it will have left a large dent in the opponent's wall.

I'm not very sure if Outrage is a good option with Sub, but well, it's your Kyurem-B :P

You could use 56 EVs on HP in order to create 101 HP Substitutes, in case a brave Chansey thinks she can wall your set

[Onicon]

404 HP (52 EVs) is enough to create 101-subs. It may not mash up with the Leftovers recovery, but you can create a good amount of subs once you at least get one free turn.
At least when there is no need to substitute in extreme conditions (sandstorm); in that case you have to creep over the next sixteenth. With 104 EVs KyuBey reaches 417, enough to sub higher than 100 and to push your HP to your limits in any situation.
On the other side, I doubt there would be a wall who would voluntarily stay in one of the best wallbreaker in this tier.

[anthony7245]

This thing can be easily taken out but it packs one hell of a punch and is a force to be reckoned with. It can sweep at least half your team if your not careful but there are still better alternatives so I don't think it will be a popular poke at all.

[MapleDoom]

All in all, Kyurem-B is weak to common priority moves, like Bullet Punch and Mach Punch.
Steel types are staples to almost any OU team, which is Kyurem-b's downfall.

But if ever the enemy's steel types are eliminated, it is extremely easy for Kyurem-b to sweep, and it can also run HP fire, to counter steel types such as Ferrothorn, Scizor, or Genesect.

[Organization Member XIV]

IMO, Kyurem-B is kinda like Rampardos. When they were first seen, they were both overhyped, but when people started to use them they realized the guys just as weren't as good as they looked. Cube (Kyu-B) can still be very effective at what it does, but it's not a metagame defining force like rain or Genesect.

[Rayquaza_]

Please don't even compare it with Rampardos. Mono-rock is a worse defensive type (more weaknesses and less useful resistances), it doesn't even have half of Kyu-B's bulk, its special attack stat sucks even with Sheer Force and it's slow as hell.

A comparison with Darmanitan would be more appropriate since they have the same speed and similiar attack (factoring Darmanitan's Sheer Force), except Kyu-B has better STABs, bulk, the ability to go mixed and it's not useless in rain weather.

Still Kyu-B is miles ahead of anything you can find in UU and below and perhaps even OU. I still think it doesn't belong in this tier.

[voidzone]

Looks like Kyurem-B might work out pretty well in tandem with Scarf/Specs Zoroark + Flamethrower, since it may lure Steels in and score surprise KOs, opening the opposing team for the big black dragon's sweep. Both weak to Mach Punch is kinda disappointing, but outside of that, it might be worth a try.

[shrang]

I was thinking of using a ridiculously bulky Choice Band Kyurem-B. Even completely uninvested, Kyurem-B still reaches 376 Attack, which is more than a fully invested positive base 120. Something like:

Kyurem-B @ Choice Band
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Nature: Impish
- Outrage
- Fusion Bolt
- Dragon Claw
- Ice Beam / Sleep Talk

With this spread, Kyurem-B can survive an unboosted Close Combat from Terrakion after Stealth Rock damage, a testament to its ridiculous bulk. You can also take advantage of that bulk by not running CB, something like:

Kyurem-B @ Draco Plate
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Nature: Impish
- Outrage
- Fusion Bolt
- Dragon Claw / Dragon Tail
- Roost

Dragon Tail is also really cool and lets you play it a bit like Giratina-O in Ubers. You opponent would probably switch in their check like Ferrothorn or Forretress, in which they are promptly Dragon Tailed out, and with some hazards up, you can probably shuffle kill a bunch of Pokemon.

[Siggu]

When equally EVd, Kyurem-B has more physical bulk than Skarmory. Yes, we know that its typing is far more useful against special attacks (As the only common special attacks that deal SE damage to it are Dragon Pulse, Draco Meteor and Focus Miss) than against physical attacks (As its four weaknesses have very common physical attacks), but it's still something that can help you understand why Kyurem-B can survive some powerful SE physical moves

[Onicon]

We have elaborated (sort of) that the physical defense is not as useful as the special defence, albeit it is higher. That's because of its weakness for Fighting and Stone moves, both which comes as physical moves usually. It doesn't help you to tank Earthquakes when they follow up with Stone Edges. Besides, even 252/+252 Kyu-B cannot prevent a 2HKO by Breloom's and Scizor's CB priorities; Ferrothorn still kills you with two Gyro Balls and Iron Barbs. Surviving Terrakion's Close Combat once is a perk, but not the goal of a defensive Pokemon. I rather recommend to play its stengths, its resistance to Water and Electrics and its neutrality to Ice.

Kyurem-B @ Leftovers
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 232 HP / 252 SDef / 24 Spe
Nature: Careful
- Substitute
- Fusion Bolt
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power Fire / Dragon Tail / Roost

Thats a logical advancement of the Substitute set. I can't bring Kyurem to fight against rain without backup with subs because of its vulnerability to Scald. With enough SDef your substitute survives Scarf-Toeds Hydro Pump in rain, LO-Starmie's Ice Beam and specially defensive Heatran's Lava Plume outside of rain. These are only the most extreme cases, stray Scalds in rain won't be able to break through you anymore.
If you ask me, I will say that Dragon type moves are redundant with Electrics/Ice. Unless we want Mamoswine dead that badly we should joss Dragon Claw.

For some reason I can't really get warm with CB (no pun intended). Most of the time it feels like playing an one-trick pony; without the ability to switch moves you offer yourself as setup fodder for either steel types after Outrage or Landoruses after Fusion Bolt. Also, Ferrothorn is still in the top ten of the usage list, who can tank both moves and retaliate with Gyro Ball. Maybe I am doing it wrong.

[LucaroarkZ]

Originally Posted by Fat voidzone

Looks like Kyurem-B might work out pretty well in tandem with Scarf/Specs Zoroark + Flamethrower, since it may lure Steels in and score surprise KOs, opening the opposing team for the big black dragon's sweep. Both weak to Mach Punch is kinda disappointing, but outside of that, it might be worth a try.

Ok I'm just going to hop in as someone who uses Zoroark almost obsessively

I can very much understand how disguising Zoroark as Kyurem-B would theoretically help to lure Steel-types. However, from my experience with Kyurem-B, I found some issues with this. First, Zoroark is neutral to Stealth Rock and Kyurem-B is weak to Stealth Rock, so that's one problem already. I've also noticed that a lot of Steels actually don't want to switch in on Kyurem-B. Are you gonna switch in Skarmory on that Blizzard or Fusion Bolt? No, you're not. Forretress isn't the best of switch-ins to Earth Power/Blizzard. Ferrothorn works (kind of), but that's about it. Most non-bulky Steels are 2HKOed by CB Outrage so it's not like they'll be directly switching in on Outrage. As the final nail in the coffin, Kyurem-B and Zoroark attract pretty much the same priorities (Mach Punch, Bullet Punch) so it's not like the combo's helping you get past those. Not just priorities, either; Sharing a Fighting weakness, both may be faced against Fighting-type Pokemon. Basically, I'm not sure of how the combo would work since from my experience Kyurem-B's doesn't attract Steels as much, and it requires you to pull off a successful Rapid Spin for the combo to even have any chance of working. Pretty much the only thing that I can think of is that Kyurem-B discourages the pink blobs from switching in, but there are many other Pokemon that can do that.

[Onicon]

The EVs look a bit random. It is faster than Tyranitar and its creepers, but being slower than Adamant Dragonite is waste for Kyurem, who can easily tech through Multiscale. I can see that this one is tailored to survive Scarf-Terrakion's Close Combat at full health, but the EVs in SDef does not much and should be moves to speed.
However, no matter how strong Kyurem is, its stats cannot make up for the pitiful base power of Rock Smash; the only Pokemon who ever had been able to justify Rock Smash was Guts-Flareon pre move tutor, and only because its movepool is just that horrible. Even 252+ CB Kyurem-B fails to OHKO a specially defensive Tyranitar. A 2HKO can be acclomplished by Dragon Claw or Fusion Bolt + SR - neutral Fusion Bolt is stronger than a super effective Rock Smash. By the way, there is little need for Dragon Claw. The only target for that it matters is Mamoswine (sadly no save OHKO) and because there is Outrage, it is possible to rely solely on Fusion Bolt as your move of choice. My suggestion would be something like:

Kyurem-Black @ Choice Band
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 248 HP / 92 Atk / 16 Def / 152 Spd
Adamant Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
- Fusion Bolt
- Outrage
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Rock Slide

This set requires us to micro manage the EVs a bit but eventually works out fine. Scarf-Terrakion deals a maximum of 452 damage when we have 16 Def, so I removed four valuable EVs from our HP. 152 speed is still faster than Dragonite and Timid Specs-Toed.
As for the moves, Fusion Bolt and Outrage are mandatory. Although it is Adamant, Ice Beam still allows you to down Dragonite, Gliscor and Landorus. without Outrage. HP Fire gives you a shot at OHKOing Forretress after SR; in sun it is stronger than Ice Beam and kills Scizor and Forry instantly. Rock Slide is for Volcanora.

[preserve]

I usually use this sets on Kyurem-B

Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb/Leftovers
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Fusion Bolt
- Roost/Subsitute
- Freeze Shock

Subsitute is better paired with leftovers and Roost with Life Orb. I know a lot of people don't like using Freeze Shock because it takes a turn to charge, but it's still an incredibly powerful attack. It has a base 140 attack on a Base 170 attack Pokemon plus STAB and a good chance to paralyze and in combination with life orb it does a lot of damage to even pokemon switching in to resist it. Subsitute is also good with Freeze Shock as it can sometimes nulify Freeze Shock's charging time with a free sub and Roost is obviously there to heal up any damage.

[Silenced Melody]

The problem with Freeze Shock is that not only does it offer absolutely NO coverage at all (Okay, you're hitting grass, flying, and ground super effectively, but that's useless cause a neutral Dragon Claw or Outrage would probably still smash both), the charge up time means that you're wasting a turn doing nothing as opposed to dishing out heavy damage.

On a neutral target, two Dragon Claws will deal more damage than one Freeze Shock.
(80 + 40) x 2 = 240
140 + 70 = 210

You're better off running Dragon Claw or some special move like Earth Power or Ice Beam over Freeze Shock.

If you run Freeze Shock, you're still going to be walled by the same things e.g. Heatran
The only benefit of running it is that you can deal heavy damage to Ferrothorn.

252 Atk Life Orb Kyurem-B (+Atk) Freeze Shock vs 252 HP/88 Def Ferrothorn (+Def) : 76.7% - 89.77%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

You're not really hitting much else.

[Shadow Dawn]

As someone who ran the scarf set with a lot of success, I've found that one of it's best attributes over other scarfers is its bulk allows it to survive a number of surprising attacks. This could easily be utilized with a bulky leftovers set (and maybe hail support?) to make an incredibly effective bulky attacker.

[Hiddenfreezer]

Kyurem-B has like no switch-ins ... Please give me an example of a pokemon which isn't 2HKO by it's life orb set. I think people underrate it a bit, saying it is weak to priority. Yeah, but it can switch into any mamoswine and open the way for your other dragons, because as I said, there is no real secure switch-in : We are talking about 170/120 offense

[Haunter**]

Many Pokemon in the current metagame have no safe switch in, just look at things like Terrakion and Landorus.

Yeah, but it can switch into any mamoswine

252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine (+Atk) Earthquake vs 0 HP/0 Def Kyurem-B: 59,85% - 70,59%. Add SR and you have an almost dead Kyurem.

[Curtains]

This thing is definitively a beast. No idea why it is OU. A good core is with Choice band Tyranitar, scarfed Kyurem-B and scarfed keldeo. Tyranitar takes care of lati@s and keldeo's other special wall counters. Now you have what I think is the best scarfed duo in the metagame. Defensively they do not workout well but both these pokemon together are hard to stop with good 4-6 defensive support. You can even just put in 2-3 bulky/light sweepers for the 4-6 spot and wear down the opponents team. Then once your opponent is on the ropes it would be impossible for he/she to stop Kyurem and Keldeo. I could see this combo becoming the standard for sand teams or all offensive teams once it becomes popular.

[Hugin]

Fun fact, LO Scizor's Bullet Punch does 71-84% damage to a Kyurem-B that didn't invest in bulk. Meanwhile, CB Kyurem-B does 69-82% with Outrage. Which means Scizor can switch into a K-B locked into Outrage and has a good chance of OHKOing if rocks are on the field. Or simply deathfodder something and revenge it. Weakness to Rocks+Weakness to Scizor is a death sentence in this meta, especially when you add stuff like Sun and base-100 speed Dragons to the mix.

[thebrownie]

Originally Posted by Fat Hiddenfreezer

Kyurem-B has like no switch-ins ... Please give me an example of a pokemon which isn't 2HKO by it's life orb set. I think people underrate it a bit, saying it is weak to priority. Yeah, but it can switch into any mamoswine and open the way for your other dragons, because as I said, there is no real secure switch-in : We are talking about 170/120 offense

Ferrothorn walls it for days.

[Silenced Melody]

Originally Posted by Fat Hiddenfreezer

Kyurem-B has like no switch-ins ... Please give me an example of a pokemon which isn't 2HKO by it's life orb set. I think people underrate it a bit, saying it is weak to priority. Yeah, but it can switch into any mamoswine and open the way for your other dragons, because as I said, there is no real secure switch-in : We are talking about 170/120 offense

The reason why Kyurem-B dropped to OU is cause a lot of things in OU can cope with it. Most steels wall Kyurem-B as well. Its base speed is also pretty bad by OU standards. I'm not saying that Kyu-B is bad or anything, but that it's not exactly the best dragon in OU. When Kyurem-B was brought down from Ubers, many people thought that OU would be in complete chaos with a base 170 attack mon running around until they realized that it was like a second Haxorus.

Also, like what Haunter said, pokemon like Sheer Force Landorus and Terrakion have 'no secure switch-ins' as well.

[Curtains]

170 base attack and 147 base attack is a huge difference. it takes those KOs Haxorus barely squeaked out and makes them reality. Ferrothorn is a pain to this thing thanks to its ability. But to use Kyurem-b you have to be smart and not just spam outrage on move one. A good partner to this thing is rotom-w with hp fire. Now an automatic switch in to rotom and kyurem is gone.

[Siggu]

Originally Posted by Fat Curtains

170 base attack and 147 base attack is a huge difference. it takes those KOs Haxorus barely squeaked out and makes them reality. Ferrothorn is a pain to this thing thanks to its ability. But to use Kyurem-b you have to be smart and not just spam outrage on move one. A good partner to this thing is rotom-w with hp fire. Now an automatic switch in to rotom and kyurem is gone.

Don't forget the fact that Kyurem-B is weak to Ferrothorn's Gyro Ball, so it cannot even hope of taking a Gyro Ball (0 Atk Ferrothorn almost always 2HKOes 252/0 Kyurem-B WITHOUT Stealth Rock) and try to look for a 2HKO

[Hiddenfreezer]

Give me a online calculator, i want to see how much focus blast does to ferrothorn (and heatran and other steels), because I'm certain that it should deal massive damage, negating the whole "No 2HKO".

Furthermore, if you survive any earthquake WITH SR from LO Mamoswine without any investment in bulk, than how can you call it a bad switch in? Yes I know it would "nearly dead", but that also means: Some investment in bulk and/or roost would make it an ideal switch-in. Again, i need a damage calculator, though.

---------

Anyways, yes I know i change the discussion with the point i bring up, but couldn't Kyurem run a pretty good/niche dualscreen set?
Think about it: Common screen setter are either fast, frail and dish out some damage (Espeon), or are really bulky and can't do anything offensive (Cresselia, Uxie)

KyuB would be basicly both, bulky and doing lots of damage. Yes I know you guys will bring up the same points (Ferrothorn), but it is certainly interesting, as with screens up i bet as an example no terrakion can OHKO it and in return, you would deal massive damage[proof needed].
It can also carry moves like roost or invest lots of speed ev's, due to being naturally pretty bulky. It would be played like a "offensive cresselia", as it can/should bring up the screens more than once in one game, and it should still deal massive damage. /theorymon

[thebrownie]

First of all, I don't want to sound mean, but find a damage calc online it's not that hard... second of all. If something gets 2hko by focus blast... it's not really a 2hko is it? a move with 70% accuracy... it's basically a 2hko 50% of the time. Second of all, running focus blast on Cube is silly when you can just run HP fire, but since ferrothorn is seen on rain teams most of the time...