Theorymon: Don't troll me (give me the move that fits me)

[kiddu]

Originally Posted by Fat celever

Anyway, we can't just go handing out rapid spin to random pokemon that it suits. Rapid spin on Miltank suits it, rapid spin on steelix does not.

[...]

Design: I know solrock more than Lunatone for some reason, but in pokemon battle revolution, XD and colosseum solrock attacks physically by turning on it's side, spinning and charging at the foe. Exactly what rapid spin does!

Have you ever seen Steelix in any of those games?

[celever]

All I know is that one of his rocks spin! XD

I know that rapid spin suits Solrock far more than Lunatone, but it'd be unfair to give the sun arguably the best move in pokemon and not the moon! XD Glad to see my idea is awesome in everyone else's eyes too! XD

[The Agonist]

Originally Posted by Fat celever

The reason no one uses Claydol in RU is because it's UU! XD
Anyway, we can't just go handing out rapid spin to random pokemon that it suits. Rapid spin on Miltank suits it, rapid spin on steelix does not.

Are you serious?

Ability: Levitate is pretty handy in regular meta-game for these pokemon, but it also helps them with rapid spin against the most common spin-blocker in NU and RU, golurk In fact, in NU the only other ghost types are banette and (the.. uh.. not so common) Shedinja! Neither of which are common at all! Solrock and Lunatone could even go up to RU where Rotom joins in. This just says about the lack of spin-blockers in NU and RU (off topic a little bit) but it just goes to say how useful tyhese 2 would become with this attack.

Okay... so even if Solrock and Lunatone got Rapid Spin, they still can't spin against Golurk. Additionally, just because they have Levitate doesn't mean they should be switching into Golurk either. So, to sum up, even if they did get Rapid Spin, they still lose to Golurk.

[celever]

Not if they use ice beam! :D
I still can't see Steelix using rapid spin though...

[Alice in Strings]

Originally Posted by Fat The Agonist

Are you serious?

That's not spinning, that's wobbling in place. If that's your argument, then let's give Ekans and Arbok Rapid Spin too, since they can do the same thing. Heck, let's give Seviper Rapid Spin while we're at it. Don't forget Gyarados, cause it can wobble in place like that, too. Heck, let's give all snakes the ability to Rapid Spin.

The execution of Rapid Spin is defined as the Pokemon spinning so fast that it creates a small whirlwind around itself, blowing away any Entry Hazards on its side of the field.

Steelix can't do that.

I do agree that Golurk still destroys Solrock and Lunatone with STAB Shadow Punch, and as such aren't effective Spinners against a Ghost type.

[kiddu]

Originally Posted by Fat celever

All I know is that one of his rocks spin! XD

Try all of them.

It's not fair to give Solrock & Lunatone a move because of their design while at the same time denouncing Steelix getting it when it has the same design point.

Hello, double standards.

Originally Posted by Fat Alice in Strings

The execution of Rapid Spin is defined as the Pokemon spinning so fast that it creates a small whirlwind around itself, blowing away any Entry Hazards on its side of the field.

Steelix can't do that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...89z5MNE#t=302s

[R_N]

Garchomp should get Fly.

Why?

BECAUSE IT CAN FLY

When it folds up its body and extends its wings, it looks like a jet plane. It flies at sonic speed.

It flies at speeds equal to a jet fighter plane. It never allows its prey to escape.

It is said that when one runs at high speed, its wings create blades of wind that can fell nearby trees.

Its body is covered in fine scales that reduce drag, enabling it to fly at high speeds.

despite mentioning it in all of the Pokedexes and flying every chance it gets in the anime (and I think some spin-off) and the design being based sort of on a torpedo/missile it doesn't have Fly (or Wing Attack for that matter but whatever).
Shoot it could probably qualify for Roost (KYUREM)

[celever]

Originally Posted by Fat kiddu

Try all of them.

It's not fair to give Solrock & Lunatone a move because of their design while at the same time denouncing Steelix getting it when it has the same design point.

Hello, double standards.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...89z5MNE#t=302s

Exactly what Alice said. It wobbles, it doesn't spin. Weedle, Caterpie, Metapod and Kakuna all wobble as well! They must get rapid spin! XD

[kiddu]

Originally Posted by Fat celever

Exactly what Alice said. It wobbles, it doesn't spin. Weedle, Caterpie, Metapod and Kakuna all wobble as well! They must get rapid spin! XD

You're either blind or in denial (or trolling) if you can't see the spinning in both of those videos.

[Alice in Strings]

Originally Posted by Fat kiddu

Try all of them.

It's not fair to give Solrock & Lunatone a move because of their design while at the same time denouncing Steelix getting it when it has the same design point.

Hello, double standards.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...89z5MNE#t=302s

What are you talking about? Solrock and Lunatone make sense because they are COMPACT AND CAN SPIN AT THAT SPEED. Steelix is anything but COMPACT. Show me one Pokemon that gets Rapid Spin that can't become compact in some way barring Coil. Not one Pokemon that can learn Rapid Spin isn't compact in some way:


Solrock and Lunatone are based on meteorites. Steelix is based on a snake. Tell me exactly how those two have the same design points exactly.

For the final nail in the coffin, here's what would probably happen if Steelix attempted to Rapid Spin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqY7F5Erlrk

[celever]

In pokemon battle revolution the stones are spinning, yes, so they spin natarully. How do we know that Steelix can spin them on purpose? And if Steelix can spin them on purpose, then how does it spin them while focusing on other attacks in pokemon battle revolution? And then we have the fact that they need to be able to spin fast enough to make a small gale, the spinning they do in pokemon battle revolution could be as fast as they can go.

And I wouldn't be using the anime for reasons why a pokemon should learn a move. Otherwise Snover would be able to use recycle and Garchomp would be able to fly.

Edit: Wow, ninja'd by 1 second!

[Jimera0]

Ok, I'm with Kiddu on this one. You guys are grasping at straws now. Being compact has never been a stated requirement for rapid spin. All that's been stated has been the ABILITY TO SPIN. While Steelix might not be able to spin the same WAY that most Rapid Spinners spin (horizontally) it's perfectly capable of spinning along it's length and smacking into the opponent and removing hazards. We even see examples of it in the anime and a demonstrating of the fact Steelix's body can rotate in PBR. So flavour wise, it's makes about as much sense as most Pokemon moves do and more than some.

While we're on the topic of Rapid Spin, what about Ferroseed and Ferrothorn? Hell, Ferroseed is constantly spinning in its in-game animation. And I really shouldn't have to explain to anyone here how they would benefit from the move.

And another topic, Fly! Why is Pidgey capable of carrying a fully grown human being but SCYTHER, who is big enough to fucking ride on, isn't? Or any of the other flying bug types for that matter? I've never understood Gamefreak's reluctance to giving flying bug types the ability to carry people...

[Alice in Strings]

Originally Posted by Fat Jimera0

Ok, I'm with Kiddu on this one. You guys are grasping at straws now. Being compact has never been a stated requirement for rapid spin. All that's been stated has been the ABILITY TO SPIN. While Steelix might not be able to spin the same WAY that most Rapid Spinners spin (horizontally) it's perfectly capable of spinning along it's length and smacking into the opponent and removing hazards. We even see examples of it in the anime and a demonstrating of the fact Steelix's body can rotate in PBR. So flavour wise, it's makes about as much sense as most Pokemon moves do and more than some.

While we're on the topic of Rapid Spin, what about Ferroseed and Ferrothorn? Hell, Ferroseed is constantly spinning in its in-game animation. And I really shouldn't have to explain to anyone here how they would benefit from the move.

And another topic, Fly! Why is Pidgey capable of carrying a fully grown human being but SCYTHER, who is big enough to fucking ride on, isn't? Or any of the other flying bug types for that matter? I've never understood Gamefreak's reluctance to giving flying bug types the ability to carry people...

Don't even bring up the anime to provide an argument for a Pokemon getting a move. Otherwise we'd have Whirlwind Bulbasaur on our hands.

Rapid Spin's animation is a small whirlwind, not "smacking into an opponent". It has always been "creating a small whirlwind that blows entry hazards away while dealing light damage to the foe" There is no "smacking" involved. I guess Porygon should totally get Rapid Spin, cause...you know...in PBR, its parts spin around. Same with Magnemite/ton, it's parts spin, don't they? Just because its parts spin doesn't mean that it's capable of using Rapid Spin. But then, I'm defending a series that lets a twelve pound pine cone use Earthquake.

[celever]

These must be the debates they have in gamefreak! XD But yeah, Alice pretty much covered that post for me! :D

[R_N]

Armaldo & Delibird both get Rapid Spin

The former really can't get compact at all and the latter....can sort of wrap its tail around itself I guess? But then you can apply that to any bird and it's not like Delibird is known for that

[kiddu]

Originally Posted by Fat Alice in Strings

Show me one Pokemon that gets Rapid Spin that can't become compact in some way barring Coil. Not one Pokemon that can learn Rapid Spin isn't compact in some way:

"The execution of Rapid Spin is defined as the Pokemon spinning so fast that it creates a small whirlwind around itself, blowing away any Entry Hazards on its side of the field."

Your words. Show me where it says anything about having to be compact. And even then, there are plenty of Pokemon that break patterns (Ice Punch Gastly/Wooper, anyone?), so it's not like it'd matter, anyway.

Solrock and Lunatone are based on meteorites. Steelix is based on a snake. Tell me exactly how those two have the same design points exactly.

Because I ttly wasn't referring to the spinning I'd just linked to.

For the final nail in the coffin, here's what would probably happen if Steelix attempted to Rapid Spin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...89z5MNE#t=302s

Derp.

Originally Posted by Fat celever

In pokemon battle revolution the stones are spinning, yes, so they spin natarully. How do we know that Steelix can spin them on purpose? And if Steelix can spin them on purpose, then how does it spin them while focusing on other attacks in pokemon battle revolution?

You can breathe on purpose. Does that mean you stop breathing when you start typing?

And then we have the fact that they need to be able to spin fast enough to make a small gale, the spinning they do in pokemon battle revolution could be as fast as they can go.

And it could just as easily be faster. We certainly don't have Pokemon like Machamp or Suicune moving as fast as their Pokedex entries suggest.

And I wouldn't be using the anime for reasons why a pokemon should learn a move. Otherwise Snover would be able to use recycle and Garchomp would be able to fly.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthr...3475350&page=3

Originally Posted by Fat Alice in Strings

Don't even bring up the anime to provide an argument for a Pokemon getting a move. Otherwise we'd have Whirlwind Bulbasaur on our hands.

Which was a translation error and you know it.

Rapid Spin's animation is a small whirlwind, not "smacking into an opponent". It has always been "creating a small whirlwind that blows entry hazards away while dealing light damage to the foe" There is no "smacking" involved. I guess Porygon should totally get Rapid Spin, cause...you know...in PBR, its parts spin around. Same with Magnemite/ton, it's parts spin, don't they? Just because its parts spin doesn't mean that it's capable of using Rapid Spin. But then, I'm defending a series that lets a twelve pound pine cone use Earthquake.

The difference is that they don't spin along their entire body. Steelix does.

EDIT: oh, and before you mention Porygon being made of those parts, ask yourself, when was the last time you saw them all spinning in unison, or at least parallel to each other?

[celever]

Originally Posted by Fat kiddu

"The execution of Rapid Spin is defined as the Pokemon spinning so fast that it creates a small whirlwind around itself, blowing away any Entry Hazards on its side of the field."

Your words. Show me where it says anything about having to be compact.

Well, it just helps. But using one definition to say it can't be something else is like saying that read can't be in the past tense because the first definition says it's present!

Because I ttly wasn't referring to the spinning I'd just linked to.

Oh, I think he must have been confused because you said: "It's not fair to give Solrock & Lunatone a move because of their design while at the same time denouncing Steelix getting it when it has the same design point." Which is exactly what he answered.

Derp.

Derp.

You can breathe on purpose. Does that mean you stop breathing when you start typing?

But then sometimes I don't breathe on purpose. So in pokemon battle revolution he could not be spinning them on purpose, in which he won't be able to spin them faster. If he is spinning them on purpose, then he can't do it otherwise. And actually I do sometimes notice that I stop breathing when concentrating very hard, I can hold my breath for a surprising time.

And it could just as easily be faster.

True, but then it apparently creates a sandstorm according to your clip!

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthr...3475350&page=3

... I know...

Which was a translation error and you know it.

Who cares! My examples weren't!

The difference is that they don't spin along their entire body. Steelix does.

He doesn't spin his head. XD

[Alice in Strings]

Originally Posted by Fat kiddu

EDIT: oh, and before you mention Porygon being made of those parts, ask yourself, when was the last time you saw them all spinning in unison, or at least parallel to each other?

Thanks for helping my argument. Hello Leg 1, meet Leg 2. Together, we shall make a whirlwind, and then? DESTROY THE WORLD!

Also, Steelix's head doesn't spin. According to you, that means that Porygon is in the same boat as Steelix in that not all of its parts spin in unison.

[celever]

Mentioned his head Alice! XD Kiddu's arguments appear to be getting mixed up though... I thought he was the main person arguing for rapid spin Steelix! :/

[kiddu]

Originally Posted by Fat celever

Well, it just helps. But using one definition to say it can't be something else is like saying that read can't be in the past tense because the first definition says it's present!

...Is this a reply to me or Alice? Because I'm not seeing how it's relevant to my reply at all.

Oh, I think he must have been confused because you said: "It's not fair to give Solrock & Lunatone a move because of their design while at the same time denouncing Steelix getting it when it has the same design point." Which is exactly what he answered.

Said design point being the 3D models spinning. Duh.

But then sometimes I don't breathe on purpose. So in pokemon battle revolution he could not be spinning them on purpose, in which he won't be able to spin them faster. If he is spinning them on purpose, then he can't do it otherwise. And actually I do sometimes notice that I stop breathing when concentrating very hard, I can hold my breath for a surprising time.

Missing. The point. Entirely.

You can breathe on purpose. But when you're focusing on something else that doesn't mean you stop. Same with the spins.

You're either ESL or incredibly dense.

True, but then it apparently creates a sandstorm according to your clip!

He doesn't spin his head. XD

And now you're going for semantics because you can't come up with an actual response. Like how you're responding inside the quote just to make it harder to respond to.

What do you get when you whip up a whirlwind in a sandy area? Sandstorm. And anybody can clearly see it's a whirlwind. Except for you, since you're so deep in denial.

It spins enough of its body (as in, everything else) to qualify.

Oh, and since you're trying to use the clip now, it clearly spins its head in that, too, so...

Originally Posted by Fat Alice in Strings

Thanks for helping my argument. Hello Leg 1, meet Leg 2. Together, we shall make a whirlwind, and then? DESTROY THE WORLD!

Because 2 legs = its body.

Also, Steelix's head doesn't spin. According to you, that means that Porygon is in the same boat as Steelix in that not all of its parts spin in unison.

Again, semantics. The other guy gets by on being dense but you should know better.

[celever]

"The other guy gets by on being dense"
"You're either ESL or incredibly dense."
So, know that you've ran out of logical points you've decided name-calling is better!
Interesting... I don't get why you're taking this so seriously anyway. It's not like we work at Game Freak or anything...

[kiddu]

Originally Posted by Fat celever

"The other guy gets by on being dense"
"You're either ESL or incredibly dense."
So, know that you've ran out of logical points you've decided name-calling is better!

So now that you've ran out of logical points you've decided to single out the pathos since you can't counter the actual argument!

[celever]

Most of your post was taken up with name-calling and stuff and the points you made I didn't see a point answering them because they are truly terrible.. The only points you made were:
"Said design point being the 3D models spinning. Duh." Not the whole 3D model, just most of it's body, like Porygon or magnemite. You must be so far in denile you keep missing the times when we make this point time and time again!

"You can breathe on purpose. But when you're focusing on something else that doesn't mean you stop. Same with the spins."

As I said, I do occasionally stop breathing for a little bit! You can wave your hand on purpose, if you want to when you focus on something else you might not stop. Is that the same too?

[The Agonist]

Basically your argument consists of "it can't spin its head, and therefore, can't use Rapid Spin." If that's your stance, then explain how the hell Delibird, Hitmonlee, Hitmonchan, Tyrogue, Tentacruel, and various others use the move.

[celever]

Tentacruel can spin his whole body.
Hitmontrio, well, it's not like the only factor of a pokemon getting a move is because of it's design. That is just the point you two are focusing on.
Delibird, above, and Game Freak might have not wanted it to get out-classed by articuno completely.
And Tyrogue look at the hitmontrio.

Design isn't everything in pokemon learning moves, the hitmontrio benefit greatly from it (whereas Steelix won't) and Delibird is an odd-ball. I don't know, I'm not game freak, but I do know that your post is rubbish, since that is the reason he is saying Porygon and Magnemite can't learn it which was also what we said as a counter-argument so either way we win. Well, I suppose it's I now, Alice left...

Edit: Sorry to break up this party, but it's 11 where I am and I'm exhausted, so I'm going to bed. I can carry it on tomorrow though...