VGC Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer - Mark II

[M. Rock]

Okay so thinking about redesigning my team for VGC13. So, for anyone who has already been on the B2/W2 GBU or at least has been doing a lot of theorymoning:

- Which new moves did Pokemon receive that will likely be a big impact? I know Conkledurr got Ice Punch, but what other things should I look out for? I only want to know about things that are notable.

- Unlike new moves, I'm caught up with most of the major new abilities (TechniLoom, Shadow Tag Gothitelle, etc.), but there's one thing I'm unsure of: Imposter Ditto. It is worth spending a team slot for scouting? Is anybody using it?

- How much of a threat are the new Therians in doubles? Is Tornadus-T is good here as he is in OU?

[Golden Piloswine]

Originally Posted by Fat M. Rock

Okay so thinking about redesigning my team for VGC13. So, for anyone who has already been on the B2/W2 GBU or at least has been doing a lot of theorymoning:

- Which new moves did Pokemon receive that will likely be a big impact? I know Conkledurr got Ice Punch, but what other things should I look out for? I only want to know about things that are notable.

- Unlike new moves, I'm caught up with most of the major new abilities (TechniLoom, Shadow Tag Gothitelle, etc.), but there's one thing I'm unsure of: Imposter Ditto. It is worth spending a team slot for scouting? Is anybody using it?

- How much of a threat are the new Therians in doubles? Is Tornadus-T is good here as he is in OU?

I don't think Tornadus-T is to much of a worry. It has good speed, and has decent defenses, but I'm not seeing how it can be good in a fast paced VGC metagame. The other 2 Therians are very useful. Thundurus, and Landorus pack a punch, and Landorus has intimidate which is always handy. Imposter Ditto is as random as it gets. I don't think it's worth the risk. As for moves, just be aware of some surprise ones like Ice Punch Conkeldurr, and other punches etc. I haven't had much time to look at BW2 moves yet, so I'm not sure.

[Project_Mars]

Originally Posted by Fat M. Rock

Okay so thinking about redesigning my team for VGC13. So, for anyone who has already been on the B2/W2 GBU or at least has been doing a lot of theorymoning:

- Which new moves did Pokemon receive that will likely be a big impact? I know Conkledurr got Ice Punch, but what other things should I look out for? I only want to know about things that are notable.

- Unlike new moves, I'm caught up with most of the major new abilities (TechniLoom, Shadow Tag Gothitelle, etc.), but there's one thing I'm unsure of: Imposter Ditto. It is worth spending a team slot for scouting? Is anybody using it?

- How much of a threat are the new Therians in doubles? Is Tornadus-T is good here as he is in OU?

1. There's quite a few... the absolute most notable is Drizzletoed getting access to Icy Wind. Now the most common weather starter gets the best speed control move. Have fun.

2. Doubt it, it's too random to be amazing in double battles.

3. Regular Tornadus is a bit better than Therian Tornadus, due to Prankster and a little better offenses. Thundurus-T and Landorus-T on the other hand... The former has a Special Attack on par with Chandelure and Volt Absorb, the latter has an Attack that is as strong and Intimidate. They are probably going to be very, very popular, although interestingly enough: Regular Thundurus will probably not be less played, since it can very easily play differently than Thundurus-T thanks to Prankster, but regular Landorus will be completely overshadowed.

[Sixonesix]

Special Landorus still plays better than special Landorus-T, and the special variant was pretty common even in 2012.

[Project_Mars]

Originally Posted by Fat Sixonesix

Special Landorus still plays better than special Landorus-T, and the special variant was pretty common even in 2012.

Oh? Didnt know that was a thing, and given the slight advantage (10 points) in speed and sp. attack, you have a point.

[Elegy96]

Why is Chatot banned, by any chance? It just seems a bit random. I guess it's something to do with Chatter's mechanics?

[Golden Piloswine]

Originally Posted by Fat Elegy96

Why is Chatot banned, by any chance? It just seems a bit random. I guess it's something to do with Chatter's mechanics?

Yeah it has to do with chatter. They don't want people putting racial/offensive words in the move, and the thing with the voice & confusion, they feel it would be better off, if they just took it out.

[Magicxgame]

I'm back with some more annoying questions.

1) What are the standard EV spreads for bulky Thundurus and Amoonguss (if there is one)?
2) This may be obvious, but is Occa Berry the most common item for Scizor?
3) Generally, is Psychic or Psyshock better for offensive Cresselia? I've stuck with Psychic due to the higher base power, but I noticed that a lot of the Top 4 Worlds teams used Psyshock instead.

[Golden Piloswine]

Originally Posted by Fat Magicxgame

I'm back with some more annoying questions.

1) What are the standard EV spreads for bulky Thundurus and Amoonguss (if there is one)?
2) This may be obvious, but is Occa Berry the most common item for Scizor?
3) Generally, is Psychic or Psyshock better for offensive Cresselia? I've stuck with Psychic due to the higher base power, but I noticed that a lot of the Top 4 Worlds teams used Psyshock instead.

1) Wolfe's Thundurus is 196 HP / 204 SDef / 108 Spd - not sure if that's standard, but hey it's a great spread. Here is the standard, Smogon's Amoonguss, 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD.

2) With Cybertron's team at nats'12 Steel Gem has become more & more common. Occa still appears frequently enough, so you should still anticipate it. Rain teams might lay off of Occa though because Rain hinders fire.

3) Psyshock. Even though it's power is less, with the over abundance of Hitmontop, it makes it better, due to Montop's better SpDef.

[Plastic Beach]

Hey, what´s atm themost used/ Split for intimidate Scrafty? I saw the split 132 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 116 SDef Careful on Nuggetbridge, is it the best split in general or do you know other good splits ( afaik it lives with 176 Sdef a GemDM from Latios but I think it isn´t word because I saw it not so much like other dragons).

[callforjudgement]

Anyone know why the VGC'13 format is called "Modified" by TPCi? It seems like a bit of a weird name.

[TheMantyke]

Originally Posted by Fat callforjudgement

Anyone know why the VGC'13 format is called "Modified" by TPCi? It seems like a bit of a weird name.

I can't really speak for TPCI, but I think it's a remnant from TCG tournaments. TCG tournaments are hosted in a modified format that only allows cards from the newest sets (as well as various promotions). Since not all Pokemon are allowed in the VGC rule set, you can think of the rule set as a modified form of playing the games.

[tlyee61]

Originally Posted by Fat Plastic Beach

Hey, what´s atm themost used/ Split for intimidate Scrafty? I saw the split 132 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 116 SDef Careful on Nuggetbridge, is it the best split in general or do you know other good splits ( afaik it lives with 176 Sdef a GemDM from Latios but I think it isn´t word because I saw it not so much like other dragons).

Hi, I do believe I am the original poster of that spread. I made it so it had the same bulk as Wolfe's worlds Hitmontop, but with much more attack. IIRC it does survive a DGem Draco Meteor from Timid Latios, but I don't think it survives modest. I am not exactly sure what you mean by the last part... (because I saw it not so much like other dragons)

[Project_Mars]

Latios has the highest sp. attack among dragons, so if it can survive a timid latios hitting it with a gem boosted draco meteor, it can survive any other dragon using the same gem boosted move on a modest nature.

[tlyee61]

Originally Posted by Fat Project_Mars

Latios has the highest sp. attack among dragons, so if it can survive a timid latios hitting it with a gem boosted draco meteor, it can survive any other dragon using the same gem boosted move on a modest nature.

nope, that is incorrect. Hyddreigon has a larger sp. attack stat than latios.

[Drifblim]

Originally Posted by Fat tlyee61

nope, that is incorrect. Hyddreigon has a larger sp. attack stat than latios.

No, Latios has base 130 base SpAtk and Hydreigon has 125 base SpAtk.

[Misdreavus]

Should Thundurus pretty much always run a Calm nature in the 2013 format? Which Hidden Power is preferable - Flying or Ice (or neither)? What about Thundurus-T (nature and Hidden Power)?

Does anyone really use Tornadus or Tornadus-T?

[Project_Mars]

Originally Posted by Fat tlyee61

nope, that is incorrect. Hyddreigon has a larger sp. attack stat than latios.

I actually thought this too, but as drifloon pointed out, latios does indeed have a slightly higher sp. attack stat.

As for tornadus/tornadus-T... I could see someone running a scarfed Tornadus-T in the rain, smashing Ludicolo and Fighting 'mons with perfect accuracy STAB Hurricanes, then switching to regain health via Regenerator. On the other hand, if Tornadus somehow already outspeeds Ludicolo in the rain, go for Flyig Gem Acrobatics for more reliability outside of weather.

Regular Tornadus has Prankster, Taunt, Rain Dance, and Tailwind, in addition to a little more power at the cost of bulk and speed. Nothing overly amazing i suppose, although manual starting rain could work? Or you could abuse priority Tailwind, somehow.

[Golden Piloswine]

Originally Posted by Fat Project_Mars

Regular Tornadus has Prankster, Taunt, Rain Dance, and Tailwind, in addition to a little more power at the cost of bulk and speed. Nothing overly amazing i suppose, although manual starting rain could work? Or you could abuse priority Tailwind, somehow.

I thought Tornadus should have either Rain Dance, or Tailwind, not both, especially if it's being used in Rain.

[Project_Mars]

Originally Posted by Fat Golden Piloswine

I thought Tornadus should have either Rain Dance, or Tailwind, not both, especially if it's being used in Rain.

Yeah, it wouldnt make sense to have both. I was listing 'em as options for prankster.

[Infinity.Cypher]

Originally Posted by Fat Drifblim

No, Latios has base 130 base SpAtk and Hydreigon has 125 base SpAtk.

However, despite the different in base stats, Modest Hydreigon has a stronger SAtk than Timid Latios, 194 vs. 182 respectively. In addition, Modest Hydreigon is a common Hydreigon variant, more common than Modest Latios. Dragon Gem D Meteor from Modest Hydreigon will hit harder than Dragon Gem D Meteor from Timid Latios, assuming Max SAtk EVs and IVs for both.

Originally Posted by Fat Misdreavus

Should Thundurus pretty much always run a Calm nature in the 2013 format? Which Hidden Power is preferable - Flying or Ice (or neither)? What about Thundurus-T (nature and Hidden Power)?

Does anyone really use Tornadus or Tornadus-T?

Thundurus doesn't necessary need to always run a Calm nature, however, it is useful for it to have such nature in order to spread paralysis and tank many Special Attacks, while a partner, should as Scrafty or Hitmontop, can Intimidate and threatens physical attacks. But, other natures, Bold, Modest, Timid, etc. can be used instead

IMO, I prefer HP Ice due to hitting Dragons and Landorus-T, which is now becoming a more common sight. However, Flying can be used to target Fighting-types, such as the annoying Scrafty, and Ludicolo.

Also, I rarely see Tornadus or Tornadus-T, due to losing its niche because of more bulkier Tailwind users, such as Zapdos. Although, with Tornadus-T, it'll be cool if it can be used more often for abusing Hurricanes and U-Turn Regenerator spam.

[Golden Piloswine]

Originally Posted by Fat Project_Mars

Yeah, it wouldnt make sense to have both. I was listing 'em as options for prankster.

Oh. I thought you meant a set, not options.

[M. Rock]

Which gem would be better for a Scizor set of Bullet Punch/Bug Bite/Acrobatics/Protect: Steel Gem or Flying Gem?
I'm currently running Flying Gem, but I was wondering if steel would be more efficient. After about nearly 200 battles with Flying Gem equipped...it's been pretty well. I mean, I can take out Fighting-types that foolishly stay in, and it's been great against Trick Room leads that have Hariyama, Scrafty, or Amoonguss. But lately I've considered maybe it would be better to make his main STAB more powerful. What do you guys think?

EDIT: I was thinking about this because Acrobatics has been mostly situational...it doesn't nearly get used as much as his STABs do

[tlyee61]

Originally Posted by Fat Drifblim

No, Latios has base 130 base SpAtk and Hydreigon has 125 base SpAtk.

>.< sorry I was thinking of timid lati and modest hydra

[Golden Piloswine]

Originally Posted by Fat M. Rock

Which gem would be better for a Scizor set of Bullet Punch/Bug Bite/Acrobatics/Protect: Steel Gem or Flying Gem?
I'm currently running Flying Gem, but I was wondering if steel would be more efficient. After about nearly 200 battles with Flying Gem equipped...it's been pretty well. I mean, I can take out Fighting-types that foolishly stay in, and it's been great against Trick Room leads that have Hariyama, Scrafty, or Amoonguss. But lately I've considered maybe it would be better to make his main STAB more powerful. What do you guys think?

EDIT: I was thinking about this because Acrobatics has been mostly situational...it doesn't nearly get used as much as his STABs do

Well if you HAVE to use that set I'd say it's 50/50. Acrobatics get's it's power increased either way, and Bullet Punch being priority in all, making you more likely to us it while still having 110 Acrobatics. But in this case I'm leaning more towards flying gem due to your point about trick room. I still say 50/50.