The RU Viability Ranking Thread

[Molk]

Originally Posted by Fat Valentine

It simply cannot muscle through things like Steelix, Escavalier, Tangrowth, Aggron, MAGNETON, Unaware Quagsire, Rotom-N, Sandslash, and Ferroseed. If it's packing HP Fire over Wild Charge, then common things Kapu, Omystar, Moltres, and Poliwrath wall it, and retaliate with their Water, Fire, Fighting STABs respectively. If it had access to moves like Superpower, Earthquake, and Stone Edge, i would whole-heartedly agree with a B Rank..

However, because of how many counters it has due to it's limited movepool, I believe it fits the C Rank definition better.

Just a small nitpick, Klinklang can actually turn ferroseed into set up bait by using Substitute, as ferroseed is completely unable to break Klinklang's substitute in one hit even with a maximum power gyro ball, from there Klinklang can set up with shift gear to +6 while PP stalling gyro ball's measly 8 PP, then it can stall for lefties recovery and knock out ferroseed, otherwise, your point is sound when it comes to coverage problems.

Also, sorry, i didnt see that you mentioned that Skuntank can use explosion in your other post haha :P.

[fryfrey]

I would like to argue Electivire for C-Rank or higher. Vire's very appealing ability Motor Drive multiplies it's speed by 1.5 times, the same boost a scarf gives you, if I'm not mistaken. This allows it to gain speed even on a band set, which is appealing given the fact that it has a huse base Attack stat and great coverage across the board. Even on non Band sets this brings a whole new dimension to offensive options, and brings Vire to a position of a frighteningly powerful sweeper.

[Chimpakt]

I agree that Skuntank is a fantastic pokemon. Aftermath is one of the best abilities in the game. With Sucker Punch and Aftermath you can put a threatening pokemon in range to where you can set up on them or eliminate it completely. Pokemon like Entei and Braviary (both weak to rocks) rely on their recoil moves to deal the most damage and skuntank's aftermath can effectively cause them to KO themselves.

Its just an excellent emergency answer to a plethora of physical threats. Having steel types take 25% after they take you out is incredibly useful if they're walling certain pokemon on your team. It just opens up your opponent's team and paves the way for something else on your team. It's a team player that does not need a lot of support and helps you retain momentum which is key in pokemon.

Access to taunt and fire blast just allow it to be even more of anti metagame pokemon to handle steels and walls (especially Cress that much better).

[Silvershadow234]

I really don't get why you'd want to use Skuntank over Drapion. Explosion and Aftermath is nice for weakening steel types like aggron / steelix, but Drapion can actually threaten them with a CB EQ, whereas Skuntank is just set-up bait. Aqua Tail hits Rhydon formassive damage, and Earthquake does reasonable damage to Steelix / Escavalier. Drapion also hits much harder, has a better speed(which out speeds key threats such as Moltres and Rotom, and although Skuntank has Sucker Punch for Moltres, Drapion's higher speed stops any mind games with Sub Roost Moltres), and has better bulk than Skuntank. Thanks to this bulk and speed, Drapion can trap the numerous psychics and ghosts of the tier with ease, whereas Skuntank is actually beaten 1 on one by SubWisp Rotom.

Explosion and Aftermath do give Skuntank a bit of a niche, but on the whole it is pretty much outclassed by Drapion. I'm thinking C rank for Skuntank.

Also nominating Piloswine for B rank.

Piloswine is a really excellent sr setter in the current metagame. It can easily get hazards up against things like Uxie, and it also functions as an excellent check to many of the tier's tops pokemon, such as Moltres with Stone Edge, Kabutops, Nidoqueen, lol electivire and Drapion to name a few. If you go with Stone Edge, Piloswine beats all the spinners one-on-one. Piloswine also makes an excellent counter to the many electric's of the tier, as it can take their coverage moves with ease thanks to its great bulk and is immune to their STAB. However, it doesn't hit quite as hard as you'd like it to sometimes, such as against Uxie or Cresselia, and can become set-up bait for the likes of Crustle, which stops it from being an A rank mon imo.

[/B/utterfree]

Originally Posted by Fat fryfrey

I would like to argue Electivire for C-Rank or higher. Vire's very appealing ability Motor Drive multiplies it's speed by 1.5 times, the same boost a scarf gives you, if I'm not mistaken. This allows it to gain speed even on a band set, which is appealing given the fact that it has a huse base Attack stat and great coverage across the board. Even on non Band sets this brings a whole new dimension to offensive options, and brings Vire to a position of a frighteningly powerful sweeper.

Great coverage doesn't mean it's going to hit hard with every move it uses. Some moves have appalling problems like accuracy to deal with (Cross Chop) and at times Electivire will find itself walled or outsped by various Pokes (and rightfully OHKO'd). Also, with such good coverage wouldn't you rather use an Expert Belt set?

[Molk]

added snover to untested!

Also, snow warning's unbanning is going to be pretty big, but im expecting something like C rank for this nigga

EDIT: also added Glaceon, Walrein, and Rotom-F to untested, if the general consensus on RU hail is to keep it banned until the round is over, i will remove them.

[Bent1ey]

Snover is weak to lots of the best offensive pokemon in the tier, but improves your ability to throw nasty Blizzards on the opponent, this can be important if Slowking and Nidoqueen can abuse that move. Add Jynx, Lanturn and Cryagonal and you have many potential Blizzard spammers that are competitive in the tier.

So Snover may actually reach B tier.

[Slory]

After testing a bit Skuntank, I found that's bad that I suppose. Skuntank its pretty mediocre doing his job: trapping Psychic and Ghost-types. Its really difficult justify the use of Skuntank over other trappers like Spiritomb or Drapion. Firstly, Skuntank hasnt anything important that make it better or different, on the contrary, Skuntank lacks important points; Skuntank unlike Drapion hasnt good speed, 84 Base Speed is really mediocre, this means its force to use the predictable Sucker Punch against anything that outsped him. About bulks difference between Drapion and Skuntank, aren't important really, Drapion take a bit better physical attacks, Skuntank take a bit better special attacks, but in general arent significally important to argumment with it. One of the most important difference between both is the movepool. Speaking of coverage, Skuntank's coverage moves are quite poor; his usable moves are Sucker Punch, Pursuit, Crunch, Fire Blast, Explosion and Poison Jab. This means that there are a lot of Pokemon that can exploitable Skuntank's coverage; anything that resist Dark-type is a great check to Skuntank like Aggron, Crawdaunt, Drapion, Poliwrath, Emboar, Escavalier, Steelix or Klinklang for name few, some of these like Drapion or Klinklang can set up without issue. Also, isnt neccesary use a Pokemon that resist Dark moves, because 93 Base Att is not that good and its main moves to hit are Sucker Punch / Pursuit, its pretty easy to check with things such as Rhydon, Qwilfish, Omastar, Miltank, Tangrowth, Regirock or Fraxure for example. In the other hand, Drapion unlike Skuntank, with Earthquake and Swords Dance, can threaten most of the aforementioned Pokemon. About Aftermath is a pretty good ability, I think is a way of stretching it; Aftermath would useful in some specific situations, but its not enough to justify the use of Skuntank.

I early found that Skuntank is not that great at doing his job; in theory can trap and kill without a lot problems Psychic and Ghost-types, but needs to be carefully when switching. Pokemon that Skuntank is suppose to defeat, like Misdreavus, Uxie, Cresselia or Rotom, use status moves, and because this metagame is plague of Dark-types, is not difficult to predict the switching, and cripple it with Will-o-Wisp / Thunder Wave that hurts a lot Skuntank. Others like Golurk or Spiritomb, put you into controversial situation; Golurk can threaten you with Earthquake, and you need to predict very well between Sucker Punch / Pursuit or even with Crunch to kill him. Spiritomb can burn you, trick you, or even hit really hard with Return; about Crotomb version, you cannot do anything, Spiritomb set up on you with relative ease, even if you have Taunt, Spiritomb can take Sucker Punch / Pursuit on the switching, witout receive 3HKO from both.

Overall, Skuntank is not that great at doing his job, and stiff a lot of competition with Drapion and Spiritomb. Also, if the opposite team lacks Ghost or Psychic-types I found that Skuntank becomes to be useless, outside revenge kill anything frail like Sceptile or Galvantula. Skuntank would be use on some specific teams, but in general terms is not great Pokemon. Low C Rank, its fine for it.

[Valentine]

Originally Posted by Fat Slory

Overall, Skuntank is not that great at doing his job, and stiff a lot of competition with Drapion and Spiritomb. Also, if the opposite team lacks Ghost or Psychic-types I found that Skuntank becomes to be useless, outside revenge kill anything frail like Sceptile or Galvantula. Skuntank would be use on some specific teams, but in general terms is not great Pokemon. Low C Rank, its fine for it.

After reaching rank 3 with the Skunk, and talking to more people on IRC, I agree with this man wholeheartedly. C Rank is the proper place for Skuntank. Its advantages over Drapion are few, and the biggest ones like Sucker Punch and Aftermath can be easily played around.

[Jarc]

I want to argue to move Fraxure to A Rank. Sure, it's in NU, but people seriously underestimate it. Eviolite gives it actual bulk, not to mention its key resistances to Grass, Fire, Water, and Electric. Morover, it can use Taunt to shut down walls who try to phaze or status it. Both of these put together make it surprisingly easy for this monster to set up, and once that happens, chances are gg will appear on the chat. With one DD under its belt it outspeeds al unboosted pokes up to Swellow at 125 base speed, which is basically everything bar Aerodactyl and Accelgor. From there it can enjoy firing off STAB Outrages from an attack stat higher than Entei at +1. If Steelix and Klingklang try to crash the party, Low Kick or Superpower will be waiting for them. So I believe A Rank is fine for Haxorus' little brother.

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Originally Posted by Fat Jarc

I want to argue to move Fraxure to A Rank. Sure, it's in NU, but people seriously underestimate it. Eviolite gives it actual bulk, not to mention its key resistances to Grass, Fire, Water, and Electric. Morover, it can use Taunt to shut down walls who try to phaze or status it. Both of these put together make it surprisingly easy for this monster to set up, and once that happens, chances are gg will appear on the chat. With one DD under its belt it outspeeds al unboosted pokes up to Swellow at 125 base speed, which is basically everything bar Aerodactyl and Accelgor. From there it can enjoy firing off STAB Outrages from an attack stat higher than Entei at +1. If Steelix and Klingklang try to crash the party, Low Kick or Superpower will be waiting for them. So I believe A Rank is fine for Haxorus' little brother.

I agree with this. Fraxure is quite an underrated threat in this meta. With Eviolite, it has a chance to grab at least one DD boost in. With that, Outrage wrecks shit like there's no tomorrow. Low Kick is a great asset, which can deal with the steel. Taunt ensures that Tangrowth isn't gonna put status on it. It's a truly amazing Pokemon. I agree with it for A-Rank.

[Hot N Cold]

I dont agree to move Fraxure to A-Rank in this currently metagame, Cresselia and Hail teams are potential problems for Fraxure. The first mon actually can use T-wave then Moonlight to beat Fraxure easily and if you're running Lum Berry then then lost bulk and power, Fraxure can use Taunt against Cresselia but Adamant Fraxure with Eviolite need like +5 to HKO max def Cresselia because if you dont beat Cresselia in the same turn of Outrage spam she can use t-wave. Anyways Ice beam kills easily Fraxure.

In the other hand, Fraxure is very hard to setupp against this Hail teams or Blizzard spam, cant take any Blizzard and lost life in each turn because the damage from Hail. Also, new mons like Wallrein with a great bulk and new scarf users like Rotom-F are the pain for Fraxure.

[DittoCrow]

Snover should definitely be B Rank. Even though all it technically does it set up hail, this is a big part of the game and your team. It is the only permanent weather starter in the tier and many Pokemon benefit from it, while the weather condition also negates Leftovers recovery. Snover can also weaken an opposing Pokemon or even get a KO with the Focus Sash set. Because of this and it's great ability to support a team it should be B Rank. I don't think it should be A Rank because it doesn't do much outside of setting up hail, so you're basically playing with 5 Pokemon.

Fraxure should definitely be B Rank as well. He has a hard time setting up, as he gets 2HKOed by many powerful attackers even with Eviolite. Fraxure is also quite slow after a Dragon Dance, getting outsped by things like Swellow. Fraxure doesn't really do enough damage to opposing teams to be a major threat in RU, as it needs multiple boosts and hardly ever gets the chance to obtain them. Now with hail in the tier, Fraxure has an even tougher time setting up. B Rank is the highest Fraxure should be.

[Molk]

Okay, i have decided to move Skuntank to C rank for now. its an okay mon in and of itself, and when used correctly it can do work in the RU tier, it just recieves a lot of competition from all the other Dark-types in the tier such as Spiritomb, Absol, and especially Drapion, who can perform Skuntank's job but better most of the time. Nonthenless, Skuntank does have a few perks in the form of Sucker Punch, higher special defense, aftermath, and explosion that make it worth considering on some teams. To be honest i think Skuntank would fit better in D rank simply because of the amount of competition it gets, but ill leave that up to you guys.

I also agree with moving Snover to B rank, Snover is an incredibly mediocre Pokemon on its own, but being the only permanent weather setter in the RU tier is pretty big, especially when your weather brings so many new things to the table. The Focus Sash set is at least capable of damaging something with Blizzard before going down, so i guess Snover isnt TOTAL dead weight outside of hail, its also pretty useful as death fodder later in the match to get a threatening pokemon in for free, so ya Expect snover in B rank soon!

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Skuntank is alright. It has competition but does its job when it needs to. C-Rank is pretty good for it.

Also, I'd like to nominate Walrein for B-Rank. Stallrein is amazing. I run Toxic/Protect/Block/Blizzard (yes, Block. It traps the thing it will stall so it stays in and gets worn down by hail and toxic damage), and it stalls like a boss. Walrein has nice bulk too with Ice Body which does some real good when it stalls something. It's a great Pokemon in hail overall. B-Rank.

[speed ghilliesniper]

I'd agree with Walrein to B-Rank . Stallrein is a complete boss under hail, able to just wall and toxic stall so many things its just not even funny. Plus it's stealth rocks weakness is somewhat lessened in that 2 turns of ice body and leftovers recovery negate it. All in all a defensive behemoth that can be tailored for ones team and only rivaled by sub seed Whimsicott for it's sheer annoyance.

Also, I'd also like to nominate Regice for B-Rank. The reasoning behind this is it's godly special bulk, walling any of the common hail attackers, almost all special attackers in the tire and even acting as one of the few true Nidoqueen counters providing there's no rocks down (and it can with rocks if it has protect and ice body). It can run quite a few sets, including a sub/toxic/protect/blizzard set if it wanted to take up a Stallrein type set, or a rest talk set or resto chesto with Thunderbolt and / or Focus Blast to get more longevity outside of hail which could come in handy during weather wars. All in all one heck of a mon under hail and more than deserving of B-rank.

It's downsides are it's not so great physical defense considering it's typing and lack of investment with all the fighting and stone edges being thrown around to mess with hail teams( base 80-100 still isn't terrible), it's rather underwhelming SpAtk with no investment (base 100 still isn't bad by any means), lack of reliable recovery outside of protect/ ice body, and the fact that it's super slow (no covering this up, it's really slow and has to relly on it's bulk).

And some calcs against Nido:
252+ SpAtk Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoqueen Fire Blast vs. 252 HP 234+ SpDef Regice - 40.11%-47.8%, guaranteed 3HKO

24 SpAtk Regice Blizzard vs. 4HP 0SpDef 95.03%-111.8%, 62.5% chance to OHKO, guaranteed after hail.

[JirachiCelebiMew]

Also note that Regice can run a nice RP set, which is really scary once you let it set up.

[Oglemi*]

Arguing for Rotom-F to A Rank. It's like Rotom-C, except for use on hail teams and arguably better as it doesn't have to switch out after destroying things with its main STAB attack in Blizzard. Choice Scarf is a beautiful set on Glaceon SMASH, and it can fit in on many other teams that don't even make use of hail. It's also not even limited to a Scarf set; Specs, SubSplit, SubWisp, and LO are all completely viable and dangerous sets (LO Rotom-F comes really close to 2HKOing Clefable btw).

Glaceon to B Rank. The power of its STAB Blizzard is just so immense that it can't be overlooked. However, using Glaceon requires you also using Snover, and having 2 slow Ice-types on a team requires a ton of support. However, Glaceon is also not even limited to a Specs set; SubProtect is just as dangerous and wayyyy more annoying. As far as hail abusers go Glaceon is at the top, and is now an actual relevant threat in the metagame.

[Yonko7]

Originally Posted by Fat Molk

Okay, i have decided to move Skuntank to C rank for now.

I'd like to add something that gives our little skunk something to differentiate. Drapion has a hard time with hardcore physical walls such as Steelix and Tangrowth; Spiritomb is in a similar boat, as outside of Dark-type attacks, it doesn't have any other offensive options to work with. Although, Spiritomb does have Will-O-Wisp, Pain Split, and Trick. Skuntank has the advantage of running a wallbreaker set, capable to taking down Tangrowth and Steelix with Fire Blast, something that Drapion wishes it could do.

Although I do find this to be a small niche, and not much to differentiate it from Drapion and Spiritomb, which is why Skuntank is solid C material. ^.^

[Molk]

Okay, im going to do something i havent been able to do in a while, proposed changes!

So looking through the nominated things in the past two pages i see......

Piloswine UP from Untested Rank to B rank

Walrein UP from Untested Rank to B rank

Glaceon UP from Untested Rank to B rank

Rotom-F UP from Untested Rank to A rank

Adding Regice to Untested Rank

I personally agree with all of these changes except Regice, i have only seen one Regice in the entire time i have played RU, and quite frankly, it didnt accomplish much (for reference, it was today). Ice Body is actually currently unreleased on Regice sadly, hurting its viability as a hail check and addition to hail, it also recieves quite a bit of competition from Cryogonal, who is also a good special wall, is faster, carries recover, and most importantly Rapid Spin. If Regice had Ice Body now i would give it a rank for sure, but i just cant see it above C rank at this point if given a rank at all.

Im also going to vouch for Piloswine a bit, i was bored today and decided to throw together a silly mono ice team for fun, and i ended up using Piloswine as my Stealth Rock setter because frankly, there was no other option haha. Piloswine has quite a bit going for it in RU these days, and the new addition of Hail gives Piloswine even more of a reason to be used, as a combination of Thick Fat and Piloswine's excellent bulk makes it the ideal Blizzard absorber for an offensive team. Speaking of bulk, Piloswine's bulk is insane, i mean, even when burdened with the dreaded Ice-type, it can take all kinds of hits, and can even survive attacks its weak to with quite a bit of hp in a pinch. 100 Attack is more than enough to allow Piloswine to strike back against the opponents its taking hits from, as well. Piloswine's offensive prowess is further bolstered by the excellent coverage provided by Piloswine's Ice and Ground STABs, making it somewhat harder to wall the pig mammoth. Piloswine's Ice Shard comes in handy quite a bit when facing opponents using threats such as Lilligant, Rotom-C, and Sceptile, as it can easily pick off a slightly weakened one with the priority move. Piloswine was a rising star last metagame and has only gotten better in the current one imo, so i would be happy to move him up to B rank :>.

So what do you guys think of the new proposed changes, anything that you agree or disagree on?

[superbadd]

I think Regice should just stay untested until Ice body is released. There's really no point in using it at all, especially when there are so many other(better) abusers in the tier available also because of the fact the rotom-f outclasses it. However, once it gets Ice body, it'll be a phenomenal special tank. Having access to bolt beam coverage plus amazing bulk that allows it to wall a good portion of the tier will be pretty cool. It's gonna be a mix of glaceon/rotom-f/wallrein.

Speaking of ice, I'd like to nominate Jynx for A tier. Jynx is an amazing blizzard abuser having a fantastic base 115 spA along with a speedy 95 base stat,(by RU standards) a sleep move handy, and a water immunity. Hail just powered jynx up, stab blizzard and great coverage is nothing to scoff at. Jynx can set up on pretty much the entire tier; she can put something to sleep and then proceed to either set up a sub or nasty plot and just plow away. I'm surprised that Jynx is only B tier, considering she turns half the tier into set up bait. She has a few issues and that's A SR weakness and frailty, but of those are augmented with either spin support or substitute. Substitute/Lovely kiss/Calm Mind|Nasty plot/Blizzard-this set(Luna!!!) destroys stall teams.

[Honko]

Let's not get carried away with the Hail hype. Any mon that relies on Hail as heavily as Glaceon and Walrein do is requiring a huge amount of team support. Snover is much worse than things like Smeargle or Dual Screens Uxie who provide similar levels of support, but in a way that is useful to any Pokemon, not just Ice-types. Remember that last time Hail was allowed in RU, Snover didn't even have enough usage to stay out of NU. Hail is not a common battle condition, it's a huge support burden, and you should be factoring that into the rankings. I think that every dedicated Hail mon should be 2 ranks below its performance due to how much support it needs. On that note, I'd put Glaceon in B or C, Rotom-F in B or C, and Walrein in C or D. Glaceon is excellent in hail but pretty bad out of it. Rotom-F is not quite as good as Glaceon in hail, but it's still a reasonably useful mon even without hail. Stallrein has always been overrated; even if we assumed hail was free I wouldn't put it higher than B, but it is 100% reliant on hail to not be a wasted teamslot, so C or D is where it belongs.

Let's not start putting every hail mon in A and B please when they require more dedicated support than things like Linoone, Scyther, and Swellow.

[superbadd]

Jynx is different though. That fact that Jynx is already good without hail and just gets better with it is more than enough to justify bumping jynx up to A tier. Besides that, hail is pretty darn common. I see it in every four teams. Hail is a form of support that's similar to rapid spin, so I don't think that snover being a liability should have much of an affect on how hail mons function. Moltres and Entei require Rapid spin support and look were they're at, all the way in S tier. The hail mons are just fine were they are and if anything benefits from hail, then I think it requires a bump in ranking placement just because of how much better it got. I don't see how the addition of a better hail setter like abomasnow would change the ranking of hail abusers.

[speed ghilliesniper]

Originally Posted by Fat Molk

I personally agree with all of these changes except Regice, i have only seen one Regice in the entire time i have played RU, and quite frankly, it didnt accomplish much (for reference, it was today). Ice Body is actually currently unreleased on Regice sadly, hurting its viability as a hail check and addition to hail.

I'm sorry, I thought it was released because I ran into one too and I thought it had ice body. Wasn't sure because I was sweeping with a sunny day eggy but I saw the ability and just assumed it was available. My mistake, disregard my previous statements as Cryogonal does give it serious competition, I'd say it's D-Rank, given it is super bulky and doesn't die to every physical attack like Cryogonal but in reality without ice body it's almost completely outclassed.

[Texas Cloverleaf]

I agree with Honko

Glaceon should be B cause it needs Hail and is pretty slow

Rotom is actually very good and i think is A

Walrein is crap and should be C at best

Piloswine is great, definitely B

I'd recommend reserving judgement on Jynx, atm I think its still B so I'd suggest giving it a few days before decidind B or A