The OU Viability Ranking thread - Page 36

The Dark Hero · Dec 5th, 2012, 8:21:10 PM

Garchomp isn't S-rank? I am honestly surprised.

Lavos Spawn · Dec 5th, 2012, 8:45:48 PM

Why is the BIRD still D-Rank? I feel like my post a couple pages ago was completely ignored. Aerodactyl plays no games.

(go back and read my post that I refuse to quote, then respond to me)

lordkira · Dec 5th, 2012, 10:25:13 PM

I'm not posting with a lengthy input of intelligent arguments.
But I would like to ask you guys a question: what do you now think about dragonite and garchomp's "tier" placement on the list? With the absence of genesect, do you believe the two top-quality dragons have significantly improved in terms of their prowess in the OU meta? Or do you believe the cyborg insect's absence has not done too much in regards to the two dragon's effectiveness in the meta?

G-Von · Dec 5th, 2012, 10:40:06 PM

Can anyone please tell me how Jirachi isn't S-Tier? i made a detailed description a few pages back taking apart the definition of S-Rank and described how Jirachi fits into it. If anyone wants, I can copy and paste it here. It is post 822.

The Dark Hero · Dec 5th, 2012, 10:54:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat lordkira

I'm not posting with a lengthy input of intelligent arguments.
But I would like to ask you guys a question: what do you now think about dragonite and garchomp's "tier" placement on the list? With the absence of genesect, do you believe the two top-quality dragons have significantly improved in terms of their prowess in the OU meta? Or do you believe the cyborg insect's absence has not done too much in regards to the two dragon's effectiveness in the meta?

Garchomp will probably go up to S-Tier now that the Robobug is gone.

Gary2346 · Dec 5th, 2012, 11:11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Lavos Spawn

Why is the BIRD still D-Rank? I feel like my post a couple pages ago was completely ignored. Aerodactyl plays no games.

(go back and read my post that I refuse to quote, then respond to me)

Wow, you were pretty much ignored... That's annoying.

Anyways, I agree with you that Aerodactyl should most definitely be praised for it's amazing speed, and being able to set up Stealth Rocks faster then any other Pokemon in OU. I think the reason many shun him over Deoxys-D or even Azelf, is because most people tend to sack their Stealth Rock lead at the beginning of the battle, AKA Suicide Lead. The reason Deoxys-D is used over Aerodactyl as a Suicide Hazard Lead, is pretty obvious because of it's insane bulk, decent speed, and the ability to be slightly offensive and access to Spikes as well. Azelf is used over Aerodactyl because it can use Explosion after getting up rocks, at least that's why I think people would rather use him, and he's got nice SpA too for a final blow with Fire Blast or Psychic. Anyways, Aerodactyl has really nice coverage, so why sack him at the beginning of the battle? If you keep Aero alive for a longer period of time in the battle, he can actually be a really nice offensive presence that can actually fight back against spinners and Steel types. Being so fast even lets him out speed Tornadus-T, and Edgequake is a great combo when facing Sun teams.

All in all, Aerodactyl needs some love. Seconding Lavos on moving Aerodactyl to C-Tier.

Rhys DeAnno · Dec 6th, 2012, 12:49:07 AM

I used to play Aerodactyl lead a lot in DPP, and depending on matchup I wouldn't suicide lead it and kept it around to be a revenge killer. A couple things about Aero are pretty notable in the current meta:

1) As preposterous as it seems, Aerodactyl checks Tornadus-T pretty hard. Rock Slide with no Life Orb OHKOs Tornadus-T after rocks, and Hurricane, U-turn, and Hidden Power Ground are all resisted by Aero. Even with no Sand, Focus Blast and Superpower fail to kill with rocks:

...

Considering Aero can switch in relatively safely, threaten a kill, and possibly even roost off the damage or set up subs, it's probably one of the best answers to Tornadus-T that your (sand) team is going to get.

2) Other things unhappy to see Aerodactyl include Heatran and Ninetales (switching into Heatran Fire Blast in sun hurts though).

...

3) It's generally a pretty good revenge killer that outspeeds anything unboosted (save a tie with Jolteon). You pretty much run Rock Slide or Stone Edge, EQ, and have space for two moves out of Roost/Sub/SR/Taunt/Ice Fang/Aerial Ace/Fire Blast.

I'm not saying it's good exactly, but I think the prevalence of Tornadus-T really helps its case for C-Tier.

alexwolf · Dec 6th, 2012, 3:23:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat G-Von

Can anyone please tell me how Jirachi isn't S-Tier? i made a detailed description a few pages back taking apart the definition of S-Rank and described how Jirachi fits into it. If anyone wants, I can copy and paste it here. It is post 822.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=622

Hemp Man · Dec 6th, 2012, 3:34:43 AM

SR weakness aside, I like Choice Scarf Aero as a revenge killer. Outspeeds Salamence/Gyarados/Dragonite/Volcornia at +1 and maims them with Rock Slide.

panamaxis · Dec 6th, 2012, 3:43:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat yee

HippoLand teams have been established for so long in BW I'd call C tier a conservative estimate, but the thing that needs to change here is Tornadus-T going to S-Tier. I doubt anyone would debate it is the single best rain abuser and even the least liberal tiering guys I know (bar one) believe it's a clear uber.

if something needs rain/sun/sand to work it should be A-Tier at best imo. Needing a specific weather to be active is a pretty big flaw.

Also a bit off topic but if we're getting to the point of debating banning stuff like Tornadus-T this should be a pretty clear indication that we need to re-evaluate politoed rather than tornadus. Let's be honest, tornadus-T usage would sink like a stone without politoed and no-one would even consider banning it.

My humble opinion

Lord of Bays · Dec 6th, 2012, 4:47:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Hemp Man

SR weakness aside, I like Choice Scarf Aero as a revenge killer. Outspeeds Salamence/Gyarados/Dragonite/Volcornia at +1 and maims them with Rock Slide.

About Gyarados, unless he's Jolly he will never outspeed a max speed positive-natured Aero at +1; Gyarados only hits 391.

Instead of those Pokémon, I'm more interested in how we he revenges Chlorophyll sweepers with a scarf. Does he even need a positive nature to beat them?

Hemp Man · Dec 6th, 2012, 5:00:11 AM

Yeah, Gyarados (and Dragonite, whose actually 1 point slower than Gyarados) need Jolly to outspeed Aerodactyl.

Also, IIRC, Scarf Aerodactyl needs Jolly if Sun Venusaur is running Timid. I think Adamant Aero Scarf outruns Sun Modest Venusaur, I'll double check tomorrow when I wake up.

Lord of Bays · Dec 6th, 2012, 6:03:37 AM

Neutral Aero outspeeds neutral Venusaur, but you need Jolly to beat neutral Sawsbuck, Liligant, and Leafeon. Now, how about some damage calcs?

Hemp Man · Dec 6th, 2012, 6:09:03 AM

Choice Scarf 252 Atk Ev's Jolly Aerodactyl Fire Fang:

4 HP / 0 Def Venusaur in sun: 214-254 (70.86 - 84.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 HP / 0 Def Sawsbuck in sun: 246-290 (81.45 - 96.02%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 HP / 0 Def Lilligant in sun: 234-276 (82.97 - 97.87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
80 HP / 0 Def Leafeon in sun: 146-174 (50.17 - 59.79%) -- 80.86% chance to 2HKO
4 HP / 0 Def Victreebel in sun: 260-308 (86.09 - 101.98%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

Aerodactyl · Dec 6th, 2012, 9:22:07 AM

I have always used Aerodactyl on my teams and the best set is by far:

stone edge/rock slide (preference)
EQ
Taunt
Roost

They lead Deoxy's D? No problem taunt it and spam your chosen stab move on the switch since only 4 pokemon in the game double resist rock. I go with stone edge because I love the extra power and the increased chances for a crit. He can revenge kill, and if you predict an obvious switch you can always roost back stealth/life orb damage.

If only GF could have given him U-turn...

malomyotismon · Dec 6th, 2012, 9:27:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat lordkira

I'm not posting with a lengthy input of intelligent arguments.
But I would like to ask you guys a question: what do you now think about dragonite and garchomp's "tier" placement on the list? With the absence of genesect, do you believe the two top-quality dragons have significantly improved in terms of their prowess in the OU meta? Or do you believe the cyborg insect's absence has not done too much in regards to the two dragon's effectiveness in the meta?

I agree nites bets set was held back so badly by genesect that is dragon danceand so was garchomp, even at full health a 1+ gene could cut through nite like butter at times and garchomp would have his sub destroyed then himself destroyed if he stayed in and using sub limits him to EQ outrage, still awesome coverage but still laughed at by skarmory and pals.

G-Von · Dec 6th, 2012, 9:46:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat alexwolf

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=622

I see your wager, and raise you:

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=822

buddhism · Dec 6th, 2012, 9:53:23 AM

I believe that Staraptor should be in B rank or maybe even A rank. Although it receives huge recoil from its attacks, it can deal a lot of damage to most pokemon with CC, BB and Double-Edge. IMO, Scarf Staraptor is a great set as it acts as a great revenge killer. It OHKOs pokemon with over over 50% HP more often than not in my case. Of course, it needs a spinner to ensure its safe switch-in.

Aerodactyl · Dec 6th, 2012, 12:56:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat buddhism

I believe that Staraptor should be in B rank or maybe even A rank. Although it receives huge recoil from its attacks, it can deal a lot of damage to most pokemon with CC, BB and Double-Edge. IMO, Scarf Staraptor is a great set as it acts as a great revenge killer. It OHKOs pokemon with over over 50% HP more often than not in my case. Of course, it needs a spinner to ensure its safe switch-in.

the problem is he's usually choiced and easy to predict and wall, forcing switches and more rock damage. if he runs LO, recoil damage + life orb damage makes him not able to switch back in. should u use a move like CC, his defenses becomes paper and is easily revenged by priority. still a great poke, but to be in the same tier as Garchomp, latios and scizor is a bitch of a stretch. I would say C-rank as he needs the correct support around him to be effective consistently.

**ginganinja** · Dec 6th, 2012, 4:48:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Aerodactyl

I have always used Aerodactyl on my teams and the best set is by far:

stone edge/rock slide (preference)
EQ
Taunt
Roost

They lead Deoxy's D? No problem taunt it and spam your chosen stab move on the switch since only 4 pokemon in the game double resist rock. I go with stone edge because I love the extra power and the increased chances for a crit. He can revenge kill, and if you predict an obvious switch you can always roost back stealth/life orb damage.

If only GF could have given him U-turn...

Yea ummmm, Deoxys-D uses Magic Coat and GG your Aerodactly got its taunt slammed back on it, denying you SR. Or, Deoxys uses Mental Herb, and GG it taunts you back, then sets up a layer of SR and Spikes while you try and KO it with SE / EQ

Lord of Bays · Dec 6th, 2012, 7:46:56 PM

^I think that's more indicative of Deo-D being way too goddamn good, but you make a valid point. Aerodactyl has a better niche as a revenge killer than he does as a hazard setter in BW2.

Gary2346 · Dec 6th, 2012, 8:02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Lord of Bays

^I think that's more indicative of Deo-D being way too goddamn good, but you make a valid point. Aerodactyl has a better niche as a revenge killer than he does as a hazard setter in BW2.

This is exactly what I think. He works as a pretty awesome offensive pivot by revenge killing super threats like Tornadus-T, and with his EdgeQuake combo he does some serious damage to Sun teams, while being able to throw up Rock if he wants to. If only he could learn U-Turn... troll freak. Sure lets give every other Flying type U-Turn but completely ignore Aero.

RabidChipmunk · Dec 6th, 2012, 8:59:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Gary2346

This is exactly what I think. He works as a pretty awesome offensive pivot by revenge killing super threats like Tornadus-T, and with his EdgeQuake combo he does some serious damage to Sun teams, while being able to throw up Rock if he wants to. If only he could learn U-Turn... troll freak. Sure lets give every other Flying type U-Turn but completely ignore Aero.

Hell, if Aerodactyl could learn fucking Brave Bird, I'd put him on every team. I mean shit, he even gets Rock Head as an ability, but no Brave Bird??

Lavos Spawn · Dec 6th, 2012, 10:11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat yee

HippoLand teams have been established for so long in BW I'd call C tier a conservative estimate, but the thing that needs to change here is Tornadus-T going to S-Tier. I doubt anyone would debate it is the single best rain abuser and even the least liberal tiering guys I know (bar one) believe it's a clear uber.

seconding this

also let it be known that if not for aerodactyl's supreme power as a lead, jackal's lead azelf hyper offense team would have beaten me in wcop prelims, west would not have broken to quarterfinals, and fourteen or so lovely men would not hold this blue trophy. c tier please.

and no he does not get head smash why is everyone obsessed with rock head you guys are rock hard for rock head

Lord of Bays · Dec 6th, 2012, 10:14:27 PM

Does he get Head Smash?

Dec 5th, 2012, 10:25:13 PM	#878
lordkira Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 994 won't	I'm not posting with a lengthy input of intelligent arguments. But I would like to ask you guys a question: what do you now think about dragonite and garchomp's "tier" placement on the list? With the absence of genesect, do you believe the two top-quality dragons have significantly improved in terms of their prowess in the OU meta? Or do you believe the cyborg insect's absence has not done too much in regards to the two dragon's effectiveness in the meta? __________________ http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l2.../bluegirl4.jpg

Dec 6th, 2012, 12:49:07 AM	#882
Rhys DeAnno Slacking Off Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 144 The Ladder	I used to play Aerodactyl lead a lot in DPP, and depending on matchup I wouldn't suicide lead it and kept it around to be a revenge killer. A couple things about Aero are pretty notable in the current meta: 1) As preposterous as it seems, Aerodactyl checks Tornadus-T pretty hard. Rock Slide with no Life Orb OHKOs Tornadus-T after rocks, and Hurricane, U-turn, and Hidden Power Ground are all resisted by Aero. Even with no Sand, Focus Blast and Superpower fail to kill with rocks: ... 252Atk Unnerve Aerodactyl (Neutral) Rock Slide vs 4HP/0Def Leftovers Tornadus Therian (Neutral): 84% - 100% (254 - 302 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 4% chance to OHKO. 252SpAtk Life Orb Tornadus Therian (Neutral) Focus Blast vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Aerodactyl (Neutral): 63% - 74% (191 - 226 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 4Atk Life Orb Tornadus Therian (Neutral) Superpower vs 4HP/0Def Leftovers Aerodactyl (Neutral): 52% - 62% (159 - 188 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. Considering Aero can switch in relatively safely, threaten a kill, and possibly even roost off the damage or set up subs, it's probably one of the best answers to Tornadus-T that your (sand) team is going to get. 2) Other things unhappy to see Aerodactyl include Heatran and Ninetales (switching into Heatran Fire Blast in sun hurts though). ... 252SpAtk Ninetales (Neutral) Fire Blast in Sun vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Aerodactyl (Neutral): 44% - 52% (135 - 160 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 252SpAtk Heatran (Neutral) Fire Blast in Sun vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Aerodactyl (Neutral): 61% - 72% (186 - 219 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 252SpAtk Heatran (Neutral) Fire Blast in Sandstorm vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Aerodactyl (Neutral): 27% - 32% (83 - 98 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO. 3) It's generally a pretty good revenge killer that outspeeds anything unboosted (save a tie with Jolteon). You pretty much run Rock Slide or Stone Edge, EQ, and have space for two moves out of Roost/Sub/SR/Taunt/Ice Fang/Aerial Ace/Fire Blast. I'm not saying it's good exactly, but I think the prevalence of Tornadus-T really helps its case for C-Tier. Last edited by Rhys DeAnno; Dec 6th, 2012 at 12:57:35 AM. Reason: Code tags, Fire blast not unreasonable

Dec 6th, 2012, 3:34:43 AM	#884
Hemp Man Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 735 USA California	SR weakness aside, I like Choice Scarf Aero as a revenge killer. Outspeeds Salamence/Gyarados/Dragonite/Volcornia at +1 and maims them with Rock Slide. __________________ This is Bleach love!

Dec 6th, 2012, 5:00:11 AM	#887
Hemp Man Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 735 USA California	Yeah, Gyarados (and Dragonite, whose actually 1 point slower than Gyarados) need Jolly to outspeed Aerodactyl. Also, IIRC, Scarf Aerodactyl needs Jolly if Sun Venusaur is running Timid. I think Adamant Aero Scarf outruns Sun Modest Venusaur, I'll double check tomorrow when I wake up. __________________ This is Bleach love!

Dec 6th, 2012, 6:03:37 AM	#888
Lord of Bays Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 478	Neutral Aero outspeeds neutral Venusaur, but you need Jolly to beat neutral Sawsbuck, Liligant, and Leafeon. Now, how about some damage calcs? __________________ FaceFaceFace: "Genesect is like the Terminator. Scary when he's coming after you, absolutely lovely with ridiculous punch-lines when he's on your side."

Dec 5th, 2012, 8:21:10 PM	#876
The Dark Hero Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 58	Garchomp isn't S-rank? I am honestly surprised.

Dec 5th, 2012, 8:45:48 PM	#877
Lavos Spawn Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 2,187 Mentor	Why is the BIRD still D-Rank? I feel like my post a couple pages ago was completely ignored. Aerodactyl plays no games. (go back and read my post that I refuse to quote, then respond to me)

Dec 5th, 2012, 10:40:06 PM	#879
G-Von Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 337 Ridgefield Park, NJ	Can anyone please tell me how Jirachi isn't S-Tier? i made a detailed description a few pages back taking apart the definition of S-Rank and described how Jirachi fits into it. If anyone wants, I can copy and paste it here. It is post 822.

Dec 6th, 2012, 6:09:03 AM	#889
Hemp Man Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 735 USA California	Choice Scarf 252 Atk Ev's Jolly Aerodactyl Fire Fang: 4 HP / 0 Def Venusaur in sun: 214-254 (70.86 - 84.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 4 HP / 0 Def Sawsbuck in sun: 246-290 (81.45 - 96.02%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 4 HP / 0 Def Lilligant in sun: 234-276 (82.97 - 97.87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 80 HP / 0 Def Leafeon in sun: 146-174 (50.17 - 59.79%) -- 80.86% chance to 2HKO 4 HP / 0 Def Victreebel in sun: 260-308 (86.09 - 101.98%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO __________________ This is Bleach love!

Dec 6th, 2012, 9:22:07 AM	#890
Aerodactyl Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 10 New York	I have always used Aerodactyl on my teams and the best set is by far: stone edge/rock slide (preference) EQ Taunt Roost They lead Deoxy's D? No problem taunt it and spam your chosen stab move on the switch since only 4 pokemon in the game double resist rock. I go with stone edge because I love the extra power and the increased chances for a crit. He can revenge kill, and if you predict an obvious switch you can always roost back stealth/life orb damage. If only GF could have given him U-turn...

Dec 6th, 2012, 9:53:23 AM	#893
buddhism Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 36	I believe that Staraptor should be in B rank or maybe even A rank. Although it receives huge recoil from its attacks, it can deal a lot of damage to most pokemon with CC, BB and Double-Edge. IMO, Scarf Staraptor is a great set as it acts as a great revenge killer. It OHKOs pokemon with over over 50% HP more often than not in my case. Of course, it needs a spinner to ensure its safe switch-in.

Dec 6th, 2012, 7:46:56 PM	#896
Lord of Bays Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 478	^I think that's more indicative of Deo-D being way too goddamn good, but you make a valid point. Aerodactyl has a better niche as a revenge killer than he does as a hazard setter in BW2. __________________ FaceFaceFace: "Genesect is like the Terminator. Scary when he's coming after you, absolutely lovely with ridiculous punch-lines when he's on your side."

Dec 6th, 2012, 10:14:27 PM	#900
Lord of Bays Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 478	Does he get Head Smash? __________________ FaceFaceFace: "Genesect is like the Terminator. Scary when he's coming after you, absolutely lovely with ridiculous punch-lines when he's on your side." Last edited by Pocket; Dec 8th, 2012 at 9:26:01 PM.