(Quality Control) Quality Control for On-Site Analyses

[breh]

Raseri, Machoke does suck enough; when I wrote the set, there were two moves that Machoke had over Gurdurr: Sleep Talk and Dynamicpunch. The former is now a moot point and Gurdurr is, ironically, far better at abusing it. Dynamicpunch is a shitty move; although it's haxy, which is nice and all, it's not overwhelmingly good at dealing out much but hax. It's an expired set.

Porygon: Yeah, the last two sets are just bad. The first... I don't know, tbh. It seems ok on paper but that doesn't mean much without any testing. It, uh, can't OHKO Amoonguss even with a Download boost. It's not the strongest, trapped between the dilemma of LO or Evio and forced to choose the latter.

[Zebraiken*]

i'm just going to quickly say that machoke isn't really worthy of an analysis - it's entirely inferior to gurdurr and its only salvageable factor is dynamicpunch (which is actually only slightly stronger than gurdurr's drain punch, anyway). it's also less bulky on the physical side and only marginally more bulky than gurdurr on the special end. gurdurr is just better in every way. :(

i would need a lot of convincing to have porygon retain any part of its analysis.

[Oglemi*]

Machoke may be one of those borderline cases where, even though it's almost entirely outclassed, it's still viable to a degree. So, keeping its analysis may be the right route to take so that in case someone DOES end up using it, newer players know what to expect (ie. No Guard DynamicPunch RestTalk set). Plus it does already have an analysis; you'd only be losing information by deleting it and only gaining information by updating it.

Ultimately it's up to you guys, but that's how I would have handled it last gen.

[Swamp-Rocket]

Porygon seems (barely) usable, but the Agility set needs to get out of the analysis. How the heck is 85 base Special Attack and 40 base speed going to sweep, and how is it any better than anything else out there. If it gets lucky with Download and uses Agility, you could have just used Gorebyss or something could just use Shell Smash and destroy everything. Or they could just have more than 85 base Special Attack.

Defensive looks lacking in options but is OK, but the Tank set looks usable.

On Machoke, I don't really think it deserves an analysis. It's mostly outclassed by Gurdurr, the only reason you would use Machoke is because it has Dynamicpunch. Even newer users would know this if they knew anything about at all Machamp, so its predictable, so that's a problem.

EDIT: Yeah, Machoke isn't unvaible. Now I agree it won't hurt to keep it.

[Raseri]

Originally Posted by Fat Oglemi

Machoke may be one of those borderline cases where, even though it's almost entirely outclassed, it's still viable to a degree. So, keeping its analysis may be the right route to take so that in case someone DOES end up using it, newer players know what to expect (ie. No Guard DynamicPunch RestTalk set). Plus it does already have an analysis; you'd only be losing information by deleting it and only gaining information by updating it.

Ultimately it's up to you guys, but that's how I would have handled it last gen.

this really sums up my opinion. Machoke isn't bad. It is mainly outclassed by Gurdurr, but Dynamicpunch does a great job at deterring set up. Also, as Oglemi said, there is no harm in keeping it. All that would happen if we removed it is that there would be less valuable information on the site, its Zebraiken's decision though.

[MikeDecIsHere]

I think this is where you post this:

Alomomola on-site has Waterfall listed as it's main attacking option. I think it should be scald, since waterfall is shit coming from Alomomola and the random burns help it wall much better.

Edit: this should probably be the case for all tiers that it has an analysis.

[Sweet Jesus]

Originally Posted by Fat MikeDecIsHere

I think this is where you post this:

Alomomola on-site has Waterfall listed as it's main attacking option. I think it should be scald, since waterfall is shit coming from Alomomola and the random burns help it wall much better.

Edit: this should probably be the case for all tiers that it has an analysis.

I think this is pretty arguable. I use alomomola a lot and usualy prefer waterfall. Hitting a bit harder with waterfall helps alomomola break certan subs since alomomola usualy prefers pokes to be toxiced rather than burned (although some things set there ev's in function of momo's waterfall anyway). In the same way, burning something like tangela or opposing alomomola is an annoying thing because you wanted those toxiced. Talking about opposing alomomolas, My own waterfall turned out being just strong enough to kill off things my opponent tried wishpassing to while I had alomomola in, scald would have failed to do so and let those pokes get back to full health. Waterfall is also better when facing zangoose or guts ursaring, 2 of the things that can actually wallbreak momo. In the end, momo is already using another status to damage the majority of pokes and will prefer waterfall against all of those. While you have a certan chance of burning stuff momo can't damage on the switch (like amoonguss), you'd probably be better simply using wish and passing it to you're next poke rather than praying for a burn. Waterfall also gets occasional flinches.

Scald should certanly be mentioned somwhere, but imo waterfall should stay the main option.

[melvni]

Speaking of Alomomola, what are people's thoughts of maybe considering Magic Coat for Other Options? It seems like it would be really hard to fit into the standard set, but it also seems like, at least in theory, it could be a decent way to get around Taunt and Toxic if you don't need one of the moves on the main set for some reason.

Clearly, not the best move, but I could see it being up there with Pain Split and Healing Wish.

[Zebraiken*]

so this thread is incredibly dead but i'm going to bump it with a few small changes i plan on making but would like to go through and have other QC members / anyone else who is interested look over them before i make them for sure.

regirock - change preferred nature on offensive tank from adamant to impish; adamant isn't necessary to KO anything iirc and the difference defensively is incredible (doing stuff like changing LO samurott's waterfall from a 50% 2HKO to a guaranteed 3HKO is pretty awesome). remove slash of t-wave - it can either be re-slashed behind eq or removed altogether, i don't mind. t-wave is a pretty heavy burden on regirock now that golurk can basically switch in for free without it. ice punch is probably worthy of consideration for golurk alone. thoughts?

specially defensive regirock is literally non-existent and 'support' regirock is essentially the exact same set with a different spread. can we remove that set and drop the other spreads into AC of the tank set?

amoonguss - actually i was going to write a lot about this but i realized we still have an analysis waiting to be gped

carracosta - adamant becomes primary slash (outspeeding serperior is not that big of an issue). liechi should probably be made into another set imo, but if hail remains / everyone else thinks it's not worth it then i'll just add in the mention later. also re-arranging the sets to put smash first.

emboar - different speed numbers, the current one hits jack all. adamant should have enough for gorebyss (and possibly a little more for timid exeggutor / golurk) and jolly should be running max speed. (is mixed even good?)

gardevoir - perhaps it's just me but i really feel like subcm should be a set (the first one). again we'll have to see whether or not hail goes but subcm is honestly the best gardevoir set i've used by far, and i've used nearly all of them. i also really like the sound of a destiny bond slash on scarf gardevoir, or at least ac mention of it. it's a nice tool to catch something off-guard or to trade a low-hp gardy for a pkmn or to ensure a free switch-in for something else when facing down something like absol or skuntank.

gorebyss - i might be alone in this thought (also lol gorebyss hasn't been updated or needed to change anything since i wrote it in like january) but subsmash is honestly the best set gorebyss has and it should be first. actually i'll push through an update for this analysis later

haunter - subdisable should slash sludge bomb > hp, that is what everyone uses. it also gets owned by cb struggles from everything, so... this is something that needs to be made note of.

kangaskhan - should be using an adamant spread with double-edge slashed before return (and body slam dropped to ac or w/e).

sawsbuck - should be using double-edge to 2HKO amoonguss, slash return behind it but power is a necessity when you're frail as shit

there's plenty of other stuff i need to change but i'll settle with this for now. if QC or anyone wants to look through these and give me y/n answers (and why if you disagree) i'd be grateful, otherwise i'm just going to implement them all tomorrow sometime

[Django]

Originally Posted by Fat Zebraiken

so this thread is incredibly dead but i'm going to bump it with a few small changes i plan on making but would like to go through and have other QC members / anyone else who is interested look over them before i make them for sure.

regirock - change preferred nature on offensive tank from adamant to impish; adamant isn't necessary to KO anything iirc and the difference defensively is incredible (doing stuff like changing LO samurott's waterfall from a 50% 2HKO to a guaranteed 3HKO is pretty awesome). remove slash of t-wave - it can either be re-slashed behind eq or removed altogether, i don't mind. t-wave is a pretty heavy burden on regirock now that golurk can basically switch in for free without it. ice punch is probably worthy of consideration for golurk alone. thoughts?

specially defensive regirock is literally non-existent and 'support' regirock is essentially the exact same set with a different spread. can we remove that set and drop the other spreads into AC of the tank set?

T-Wave should still be mentioned in AC, but I agree it's a lot worse currently. I would probably just slash Ice Punch where T-Wave is currently. Yes on the other changes. Also mention Psych Up Regirock and its role against Kacaw in AC.

carracosta - adamant becomes primary slash (outspeeding serperior is not that big of an issue). liechi should probably be made into another set imo, but if hail remains / everyone else thinks it's not worth it then i'll just add in the mention later. also re-arranging the sets to put smash first.

Smash first y. Liechi should maybe just be AC, at least for now.

emboar - different speed numbers, the current one hits jack all. adamant should have enough for gorebyss (and possibly a little more for timid exeggutor / golurk) and jolly should be running max speed. (is mixed even good?)

Speed changes are fine with me. Mixed is certainly good, but what I think is better is a set around Substitute. It gets so many opportunites to get one up currently, and does work once it does. CBB has been using Sub with 3 special moves, and it looks amazing tbh.

gardevoir - perhaps it's just me but i really feel like subcm should be a set (the first one). again we'll have to see whether or not hail goes but subcm is honestly the best gardevoir set i've used by far, and i've used nearly all of them. i also really like the sound of a destiny bond slash on scarf gardevoir, or at least ac mention of it. it's a nice tool to catch something off-guard or to trade a low-hp gardy for a pkmn or to ensure a free switch-in for something else when facing down something like absol or skuntank.

I've honestly never been able to pin Gardevoir down as having a best set, so the choice of which is first is arbitrary for me. Destiny Bond is one of my favorite moves so y.

gorebyss - i might be alone in this thought (also lol gorebyss hasn't been updated or needed to change anything since i wrote it in like january) but subsmash is honestly the best set gorebyss has and it should be first. actually i'll push through an update for this analysis later

ordering of the sets is again w/e for me. What I do want to see is HP Electric and/or Signal Beam being used over HP Grass, as they are a lot more relevant currently with Mantine and Ludicolo.

haunter - subdisable should slash sludge bomb > hp, that is what everyone uses. it also gets owned by cb struggles from everything, so... this is something that needs to be made note of.

y

kangaskhan - should be using an adamant spread with double-edge slashed before return (and body slam dropped to ac or w/e).

y. As some users may know I also think Fake Out is a bit of wasted potential, and kanga could be better off (in certain situations) using another move. Basically I don't think Fake Out should be the first move, but rather further down and slashed with something else.

sawsbuck - should be using double-edge to 2HKO amoonguss, slash return behind it but power is a necessity when you're frail as shit

y

[DTC]

regirock: saying specially defensive regirock is nonexistant is hyperbole; it is used almost as much as 252 atk regirock and players like me still use it pretty often. the two (252 atk vs 252 special defense) sets are indeed pretty similar, but i dont think we should remove useful information for no particular benefit. it's still plenty good for helping regi tank special attacks from the likes of gardevoir, rotom-frost, and such. sunny day support set isn't that good though; that should go under 252 special defense ac. i would also put curse as a slash in regirock. such a damn useful attack on regirock in numerous situations i've been in. twave i agree with going in oo.

carracosta: liechi is still good despite hail, although it really hampers its effectiveness. still deserves a set, but the last set in this hail meta. non hail meta def deserves #1

emboar: mixed is /ok/. sub + 3 attacks is pretty cool; deserves 2nd slot imo.

gardevoir: agree with zeb

gorebyss: agree with zeb & dingo

haunter: agree with zeb

kangaskhan: agree with zeb. fake out is still really good on kanga (it has saved my ass so many times), but i wouldn't mind moving it down a slot or two. it shouldn't be slashed though. no reason to make it slashed b/c there isn't much that great to use with kanga.

sawsbuck: agree with zeb

[shstakvchlvr]

I found this on the Rampardos NU analysis: "However, the main reason that special Rampardos is viable over a physical set is that it can break walls with much less drawbacks." It should be fewer, not less. I'm not sure if this is the right thread for corrections but I couldn't find another.

[Molk]

Ok, i've fixed the error on the rampardos analysis, it'll take a little while for it to show up though, thanks for helping us out!

for future reference, things like this belong in these two threads, so be sure to post in them if you find any more grammatical errors etc.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30691
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45067