BW2 General Metagame Discussion Thread - Page 106

Lunar Fist · Dec 8th, 2012, 7:50:56 AM

CM Reuniclus was very popular and effective in early BW1. But now with big threats like Scizor, Tyranitar, Keldeo, Torn-T, etc. Reuniclus is too slow to get multiple kills before getting smashed.

The trick room set probably has the most use this meta, since speed is so important Reuniclus can turn the tables and fire off powerful attacks before getting hit back.

The Unlucky one · Dec 8th, 2012, 8:23:05 AM

custap berry might help it net more kills with the CM set though.

DarkBlazeR · Dec 8th, 2012, 1:54:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat The Unlucky one

custap berry might help it net more kills with the CM set though.

Maybe so, but that's very situational. Seeing how Reuniclus doesn't have Sturdy, there's only a small chance that you'll be in Custap range. Also, the item is only one-time use, so you'd be better using something more consistent, such as Leftovers or Life Orb. I have to agree with Lunar Fist though, OTR Reuniclus is more effective in this metagame, given that offensive teams are much more common than stall teams.

yee · Dec 8th, 2012, 3:38:37 PM

There is the general rule of CM vs stall and OTR vs offense but the other reason I've seen that CM rank went down is the popularity of Sub CM Jirachi in rain. Not only does it counter Reun fairly well, it also arguably outclasses it doing a good job against stall itself while providing your team a Steel. Reun's bulk would be much more handy without rain because that also removes things like Specs Keldeo / Tornadus / even Toed that can still overwhelm it after a Calm Mind, IMO even if Giratina / Lugia dropped / Deo-D got banned or some other scenario happened where stall gains the edge OTR would still likely be the more useful overall set as long as rain Jirachi is out there.

Bryce · Dec 9th, 2012, 9:02:01 AM

Another thing about CM Reuniclus is that it isn't as good against stall as it seems.Perish Song Celebi is a common sight on Stall teams.It can take hits from Reun without much trouble,keep forcing it out and beat it as last mon.CBttar or ScarfTar(not as much) are used on many stall teams too .Sableye is getting popular on stall teams as well and it's a perfect counter to CMReuniclus.

Siggu · Dec 9th, 2012, 2:51:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat White symphoni

Another thing about CM Reuniclus is that it isn't as good against stall as it seems.Perish Song Celebi is a common sight on Stall teams.It can take hits from Reun without much trouble,keep forcing it out and beat it as last mon.CBttar or ScarfTar(not as much) are used on many stall teams too .Sableye is getting popular on stall teams as well and it's a perfect counter to CMReuniclus.

CM Reuniclus is not as great as it seems on stall teams because good stall teams are those that can deal with it

Remember that time in which Reuniclus was a suspect? That was because those pokémon that are great counters to CM Reuniclus (Perish Song Celebi, CB Tyranitar, Sableye) weren't common on stall teams

The Unlucky one · Dec 10th, 2012, 4:06:37 AM

^Stall teams arent common nowadays anyway, Reuniclus' story is funny because it came from suspect to the brink of BL.

KurashiDragon · Dec 10th, 2012, 9:03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat The Unlucky one

^Stall teams arent common nowadays anyway, Reuniclus' story is funny because it came from suspect to the brink of BL.

That's what happens when you go from checking Stall like a boss to getting checked by one of the most broken pokemon in OU to date who's also a pretty good check to Stall. Now that gene's gone, we should be seeing an increase of both.

pharaohcalvin · Dec 10th, 2012, 9:45:34 AM

So Deo is going to be getting Nasty Plot and Dark Pulse starting the 15th according to bulbapedia. Could be interesting....

Siggu · Dec 10th, 2012, 9:56:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat pharaohcalvin

So Deo is going to be getting Nasty Plot and Dark Pulse starting the 15th according to bulbapedia. Could be interesting....

Thank Arceus Deoxys-S is already banned...

ClubbingSealCub · Dec 10th, 2012, 10:14:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Siggu

Thank Arceus Deoxys-S is already banned...

But Deo-D with dark pulse now rapes Espeon and Xatu ._.

Bryce · Dec 10th, 2012, 10:30:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat ClubbingSealCub

But Deo-D with dark pulse now rapes Espeon and Xatu ._.

Deo-D already has Shadow Ball so it won't make a difference.

ClubbingSealCub · Dec 10th, 2012, 11:02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat White symphoni

Deo-D already has Shadow Ball so it won't make a difference.

I had to double check because I couldn't believe this - yes, he does. Strange how it's not even mentioned in his analysis, since it lets him get past both Espeon and Xatu, and sometimes Starmie - some of its biggest roadblocks

windwolf777 · Dec 10th, 2012, 12:09:53 PM

Speaking of psychic types, had anybody tried the former uber wobbufett lately ? If yes, how has he between ? And has he been successful ? Or if not why ? Just wondering

alkinesthetase · Dec 10th, 2012, 12:15:20 PM

skill swap deo is better if you want to get around magic bouncers, and deo has tbolt for starmie (xatu too if you must). recall the retro life orb modest deoxys that ran psycho boost/tbolt or hp fire to wipe spinners. shadow ball is kind of an awkward in between option. it's also not very strong without investment:

0 SpA Deoxys-D Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Xatu: 116-138 (34.73 - 41.31%) -- 76.17% chance to 3HKO
0 SpA Deoxys-D Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Espeon: 90-108 (26.94 - 32.33%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 SpA Deoxys-D Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 100-118 (38.31 - 45.21%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

which means if you want it to pack punch, you end up going right back into the old life orb suicide set and that means you start losing matchups against other opposing leads (you sacrifice taunt, magic coat or twave; something's gotta give). magic bouncers are rarer than spinners so it's more important to have the established coverage (tbolt for starmie, hp fire for forry, psycho boost smashes most anything else). either way, those 2 attacks deoxys are a thing of the past.

NP deo will be hilarious - we were actually discussing it in #pokemon yesterday, no surprise - but i doubt it will have much impact. deoxys needs what slots it has, seeing as it already loses two of them for hazards, and mono-attack NP/hazard deo is not very appealing >_> running a deo without hazards is pretty pointless too. you could do some kind of NP/recover bulky thing but bleh better to just slap hazards on and let a strong mon do the boosting.

EDIT: wobb hasn't changed much in OU i think; it's still doing the same stuff - countercoat here, encore there, etc. i think it's been mentioned but custap on the 14th will be nice for some dbond shenanigans
UPDATE: custap will be on the 17th

ClubbingSealCub · Dec 10th, 2012, 12:18:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat windwolf777

Speaking of psychic types, had anybody tried the former uber wobbufett lately ? If yes, how has he between ? And has he been successful ? Or if not why ? Just wondering

Wobbuffet's a great mon to dispose of scarf users, and with proper prediction can give you a free kill or turn of setup for one of your other mons. The problem here is that you need to bring it into a locked mon that won't 2HKO, or be great at prediction.

The speedy Tickle/Encore variant is great in combination with a strong pursuit user, like CB Ttar or Scizor. This allows you to dismantle walls and choice-locked physical attackers pretty effectively.

Shurtugal · Dec 10th, 2012, 1:28:51 PM

I don't think Gene ever influenced stall so dramatically that it was as low as it was during suspects. The meta is just heavily offensive based - even stall teams run speed investment rather than investing in bulk now (speed so Tenta outpaces Loom, speed on Skarm for Wobby, etc.) I don't see why its absense would make a difference stall wise. I don't ladder on PS much, mostly PO, but I've used the same team on both places and they work reliably the same. The meta's just offensive oritented so I don't think stall will increase too much, like people propsed or implied it will from Gene's ban. I could be wrong since I don't ladder on PS much but that's my two sense on that.

On Wobby, I just don't use it right I think. In theory, it should be great against offensive choice'd threats, but most offensive mons can 2HKO the poor bastard so it can't reliable switch into half of them (making it a check, not counter, to the choice'd threats your targeting), and then it fears set up. Risking Encore risks being 2HKO'ed and Mirror Coat / Counter risks being set up on. I've just never found it quite useful vs. offense since most choice'd Pokemon can bluff or have different sets (preferably ones that can set up). Then again, I might not be using it right, (I don't play stall so maybe thats the issue), or I simply need to predict better with Wobby. The problem is I would either (a) like to use Wobby on a trap core and not worry much about predicting or (b) use a more reliable offensive Pokemon where predicting with it is much more beneficial than with Wobby. Choice'd threats are easy enough to revenge on offensive teams and even give you set up oppurtunity so I don't really see the point. If your super Scarf Keldeo weak than bring in something that resist its two stabs (Dragonite / Lati@s) and you can set up (DNite's DD) or kill (Specs / LO Lati@s). Does anyone have better exprience with Wobby? If so; how do you usually use it? I always find it more of a liablity than a possibly teammate. The only team I've ever seen use it flawlessly was Gamester's sun.

Skill Swap Deo-D is merly o.k. I've tried it in the past, but your usually better off with something else (Night Shade / TWave / Magic Coat) since they generally cover more. I hardly see people use Espeon unless BP and Xatu is usually on sun (and I hardly see many sun teams...). Skill Swap is useful for other things besides what you would think: (stealing Chlorophyl from Venu, stealing Poison Heal from Gliscor, stealing Serene Grace from Jirachi, stealing Shadow Tag from Wobby, and much more). It's not bad, but there are other options to it as well and I would reccommend trying all variations of Deo-D before trying out Skill Swap. I would OC mention it if this were the analysis....
(As for NP Deo-D; its offensive stats kinda suck and its taunt bait and its slow and doens't have the best typing either).

alexwolf · Dec 10th, 2012, 1:56:40 PM

I prefer T-Wave over Skill Swap on Deo-D. The rest of the moves are Taunt, SR, and Spikes with Mental Herb as the item. Skill Swap is nice for Xatu and Espeon, but that's it really. Without T-Wave, SD lead Terrakion, QD Volcarona, DD Salamence, and many other boosters become very dangerous and can punch huge holes early-game to your team. If you want to get rid of Xatu and Espeon, use LO Weavile in your offensive team, which is a good mon for offensive teams in general, or just run a set-up sweeper that can abuse Xatu and Espeon.

BKC · Dec 10th, 2012, 1:58:48 PM

Actually, one of the better Deo-D teams in the Genesect era ran CB Tyranitar, and it's pretty effective; not only does it give a usually-weatherless playstyle some control over the weather, it was also effective for getting rid of Deo's most hated adversaries, i.e. Starmie/Xatu/Espeon.

StarmanXL · Dec 10th, 2012, 4:57:35 PM

So I don't know if this is just something related to the lower ladder, but lately I have seen a lot more UU/RU/NU pokemon being used on the ladder to varying degrees of success, and I have to wonder, is this due to those pokemon being legitimately good (a la Tentacruel's rise from UU in DP) or just being niche counters to certain things in the metagame and their usage would drop like a rock should there be any small shift in it?

alkinesthetase · Dec 10th, 2012, 5:00:34 PM

depends on the mon... but in general it's just ladder randoms using stuff that they think is good =/ when you see a magmortar or dusknoir in OU, there's really not much to say.... there are the occasional outliers like lanturn being used to counter thundurus-T, but even then that's usually not a good reason to bring it out of the lower tiers.

StarmanXL · Dec 10th, 2012, 5:05:54 PM

I'm talking more stuff like Amoongus, Slowbro, Stoutland, Ditto, Sableye, Bronzong, things that actually get some hype in the chats and on the board and the like. I mean obviously you know some random Electivire is shitty but there are others that show up every now and again and actually can counter some shit in the metagame. I dunno.

the nub · Dec 10th, 2012, 5:28:10 PM

Amoonguss still in NU? i think that Amoonguss must be UU xD

ClubbingSealCub · Dec 10th, 2012, 5:35:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat StarmanXL

I'm talking more stuff like Amoongus, Slowbro, Stoutland, Ditto, Sableye, Bronzong, things that actually get some hype in the chats and on the board and the like. I mean obviously you know some random Electivire is shitty but there are others that show up every now and again and actually can counter some shit in the metagame. I dunno.

Slowbro is one of the best physical walls of OU.

Sp.Def Amoongus takes a dump on any Keldeo variant

Ditto is a good revenge killer and the best counter to non-sub set-up sweepers

Sableye is a freakin' troll, and newbies enjoy WoW + Confuse Ray shenanigans.

Bronzong checks a lot of stuff, including dangerous threats such as Garchomp, Tornadus; and is very resillent to residual damage.

PD: If you've seen a Sandslash around, it was me ;D

Siggu · Dec 10th, 2012, 5:58:11 PM

I just LOVE using Sableye with Substitute instead of Taunt since the last moments before Excadrill's ban. While it won't stallbreak anything without Taunt, it works against offensive teams, scouting Choice sets (Letting an opposing Latios Draco Meteor to -4 or -6 to get a 'free' switch-in is too good not to be tempted by that), wasting Dual Screens turns, getting an opportunity to Will-o-wisp without thinking of the possibility of it missing AND getting free Foul Play and Recover turns

I've also used Amoonguss on one of my teams - the ability to remove Toxic Spikes just by switching in AND checking a lot of common rain pokémon (Specs Keldeo using Hydro Pump and Tornadus-T being the main exceptions) is amazing, and it becomes even better when you realize it has Regenerator, Clear Smog and Spore

Another underused pokémon I've been using recently is Hitmontop, as my secondary physical wall, rapid spinner, Intimidator and U-Turn sponge - a unique combination that doesn't make it OU because of... well... the fact it doesn't learn Drain Punch and most stall teams being a liability nowadays

Dec 8th, 2012, 8:23:05 AM	#2627
The Unlucky one Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 560 Philippines	custap berry might help it net more kills with the CM set though. __________________ 252+ SpA Choice Specs Magikarp Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 84 SpD Ho-Oh in rain: 228-270 (54.93 - 65.06%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock you may know me as "superwii64cube" too

Dec 9th, 2012, 9:02:01 AM	#2630
Bryce Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 342 South Asia	Another thing about CM Reuniclus is that it isn't as good against stall as it seems.Perish Song Celebi is a common sight on Stall teams.It can take hits from Reun without much trouble,keep forcing it out and beat it as last mon.CBttar or ScarfTar(not as much) are used on many stall teams too .Sableye is getting popular on stall teams as well and it's a perfect counter to CMReuniclus. __________________

Dec 10th, 2012, 4:06:37 AM	#2632
The Unlucky one Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 560 Philippines	^Stall teams arent common nowadays anyway, Reuniclus' story is funny because it came from suspect to the brink of BL. __________________ 252+ SpA Choice Specs Magikarp Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 84 SpD Ho-Oh in rain: 228-270 (54.93 - 65.06%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock you may know me as "superwii64cube" too

Dec 10th, 2012, 12:09:53 PM	#2639
windwolf777 Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 164 Inside the Fire, in the Asylum, chilling with The Animal, gettin Down With the Sicknesses	Speaking of psychic types, had anybody tried the former uber wobbufett lately ? If yes, how has he between ? And has he been successful ? Or if not why ? Just wondering __________________ http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3463764 Why not try hackmon ? Where nothing is impossible and only the strong survive FREE ORIGINAL THUNDER BRO........ AND DRILL

Dec 10th, 2012, 12:15:20 PM	#2640
alkinesthetase <~aldarOFF> ill be imagining your face in my toilet alkines Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 711 <ala> canadabros is the strongest bros you can be Mentor	skill swap deo is better if you want to get around magic bouncers, and deo has tbolt for starmie (xatu too if you must). recall the retro life orb modest deoxys that ran psycho boost/tbolt or hp fire to wipe spinners. shadow ball is kind of an awkward in between option. it's also not very strong without investment: 0 SpA Deoxys-D Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Xatu: 116-138 (34.73 - 41.31%) -- 76.17% chance to 3HKO 0 SpA Deoxys-D Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Espeon: 90-108 (26.94 - 32.33%) -- guaranteed 4HKO 0 SpA Deoxys-D Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 100-118 (38.31 - 45.21%) -- guaranteed 3HKO which means if you want it to pack punch, you end up going right back into the old life orb suicide set and that means you start losing matchups against other opposing leads (you sacrifice taunt, magic coat or twave; something's gotta give). magic bouncers are rarer than spinners so it's more important to have the established coverage (tbolt for starmie, hp fire for forry, psycho boost smashes most anything else). either way, those 2 attacks deoxys are a thing of the past. NP deo will be hilarious - we were actually discussing it in #pokemon yesterday, no surprise - but i doubt it will have much impact. deoxys needs what slots it has, seeing as it already loses two of them for hazards, and mono-attack NP/hazard deo is not very appealing >_> running a deo without hazards is pretty pointless too. you could do some kind of NP/recover bulky thing but bleh better to just slap hazards on and let a strong mon do the boosting. EDIT: wobb hasn't changed much in OU i think; it's still doing the same stuff - countercoat here, encore there, etc. i think it's been mentioned but custap on the 14th will be nice for some dbond shenanigans UPDATE: custap will be on the 17th __________________ <%yee> i will summon a spider to kill alkines my massive mafia roles list Last edited by alkinesthetase; Dec 10th, 2012 at 12:39:12 PM.

Dec 8th, 2012, 7:50:56 AM	#2626
Lunar Fist Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 76 Out There	CM Reuniclus was very popular and effective in early BW1. But now with big threats like Scizor, Tyranitar, Keldeo, Torn-T, etc. Reuniclus is too slow to get multiple kills before getting smashed. The trick room set probably has the most use this meta, since speed is so important Reuniclus can turn the tables and fire off powerful attacks before getting hit back.

Dec 8th, 2012, 3:38:37 PM	#2629
yee Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,044	There is the general rule of CM vs stall and OTR vs offense but the other reason I've seen that CM rank went down is the popularity of Sub CM Jirachi in rain. Not only does it counter Reun fairly well, it also arguably outclasses it doing a good job against stall itself while providing your team a Steel. Reun's bulk would be much more handy without rain because that also removes things like Specs Keldeo / Tornadus / even Toed that can still overwhelm it after a Calm Mind, IMO even if Giratina / Lugia dropped / Deo-D got banned or some other scenario happened where stall gains the edge OTR would still likely be the more useful overall set as long as rain Jirachi is out there.

Dec 10th, 2012, 9:45:34 AM	#2634
pharaohcalvin Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 191	So Deo is going to be getting Nasty Plot and Dark Pulse starting the 15th according to bulbapedia. Could be interesting....

Dec 10th, 2012, 1:28:51 PM	#2642
Shurtugal Pro-OU! Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 853 Florida	I don't think Gene ever influenced stall so dramatically that it was as low as it was during suspects. The meta is just heavily offensive based - even stall teams run speed investment rather than investing in bulk now (speed so Tenta outpaces Loom, speed on Skarm for Wobby, etc.) I don't see why its absense would make a difference stall wise. I don't ladder on PS much, mostly PO, but I've used the same team on both places and they work reliably the same. The meta's just offensive oritented so I don't think stall will increase too much, like people propsed or implied it will from Gene's ban. I could be wrong since I don't ladder on PS much but that's my two sense on that. On Wobby, I just don't use it right I think. In theory, it should be great against offensive choice'd threats, but most offensive mons can 2HKO the poor bastard so it can't reliable switch into half of them (making it a check, not counter, to the choice'd threats your targeting), and then it fears set up. Risking Encore risks being 2HKO'ed and Mirror Coat / Counter risks being set up on. I've just never found it quite useful vs. offense since most choice'd Pokemon can bluff or have different sets (preferably ones that can set up). Then again, I might not be using it right, (I don't play stall so maybe thats the issue), or I simply need to predict better with Wobby. The problem is I would either (a) like to use Wobby on a trap core and not worry much about predicting or (b) use a more reliable offensive Pokemon where predicting with it is much more beneficial than with Wobby. Choice'd threats are easy enough to revenge on offensive teams and even give you set up oppurtunity so I don't really see the point. If your super Scarf Keldeo weak than bring in something that resist its two stabs (Dragonite / Lati@s) and you can set up (DNite's DD) or kill (Specs / LO Lati@s). Does anyone have better exprience with Wobby? If so; how do you usually use it? I always find it more of a liablity than a possibly teammate. The only team I've ever seen use it flawlessly was Gamester's sun. Skill Swap Deo-D is merly o.k. I've tried it in the past, but your usually better off with something else (Night Shade / TWave / Magic Coat) since they generally cover more. I hardly see people use Espeon unless BP and Xatu is usually on sun (and I hardly see many sun teams...). Skill Swap is useful for other things besides what you would think: (stealing Chlorophyl from Venu, stealing Poison Heal from Gliscor, stealing Serene Grace from Jirachi, stealing Shadow Tag from Wobby, and much more). It's not bad, but there are other options to it as well and I would reccommend trying all variations of Deo-D before trying out Skill Swap. I would OC mention it if this were the analysis.... (As for NP Deo-D; its offensive stats kinda suck and its taunt bait and its slow and doens't have the best typing either). __________________ If you want your team rated; feel free to PM or VM me for your own, personalized rate! If you want to learn how to battle and win; check out my guide! Feel free to check out my team in OU that peaked #1!

Dec 10th, 2012, 1:56:40 PM	#2643
alexwolf King of Conquerors Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,761 Greece	I prefer T-Wave over Skill Swap on Deo-D. The rest of the moves are Taunt, SR, and Spikes with Mental Herb as the item. Skill Swap is nice for Xatu and Espeon, but that's it really. Without T-Wave, SD lead Terrakion, QD Volcarona, DD Salamence, and many other boosters become very dangerous and can punch huge holes early-game to your team. If you want to get rid of Xatu and Espeon, use LO Weavile in your offensive team, which is a good mon for offensive teams in general, or just run a set-up sweeper that can abuse Xatu and Espeon. __________________ Part of the OU QC team, message me for a check!

Dec 10th, 2012, 1:58:48 PM	#2644
BKC Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,314	Actually, one of the better Deo-D teams in the Genesect era ran CB Tyranitar, and it's pretty effective; not only does it give a usually-weatherless playstyle some control over the weather, it was also effective for getting rid of Deo's most hated adversaries, i.e. Starmie/Xatu/Espeon. __________________ http://rateyourmusic.com/~BKC #beastaroonis

Dec 10th, 2012, 4:57:35 PM	#2645
StarmanXL Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,369 Le Petit Prince	So I don't know if this is just something related to the lower ladder, but lately I have seen a lot more UU/RU/NU pokemon being used on the ladder to varying degrees of success, and I have to wonder, is this due to those pokemon being legitimately good (a la Tentacruel's rise from UU in DP) or just being niche counters to certain things in the metagame and their usage would drop like a rock should there be any small shift in it?

Dec 10th, 2012, 5:00:34 PM	#2646
alkinesthetase <~aldarOFF> ill be imagining your face in my toilet alkines Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 711 <ala> canadabros is the strongest bros you can be Mentor	depends on the mon... but in general it's just ladder randoms using stuff that they think is good =/ when you see a magmortar or dusknoir in OU, there's really not much to say.... there are the occasional outliers like lanturn being used to counter thundurus-T, but even then that's usually not a good reason to bring it out of the lower tiers. __________________ <%yee> i will summon a spider to kill alkines my massive mafia roles list

Dec 10th, 2012, 5:05:54 PM	#2647
StarmanXL Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,369 Le Petit Prince	I'm talking more stuff like Amoongus, Slowbro, Stoutland, Ditto, Sableye, Bronzong, things that actually get some hype in the chats and on the board and the like. I mean obviously you know some random Electivire is shitty but there are others that show up every now and again and actually can counter some shit in the metagame. I dunno.

Dec 10th, 2012, 5:28:10 PM	#2648
the nub Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 26 Paraguay	Amoonguss still in NU? i think that Amoonguss must be UU xD

Dec 10th, 2012, 5:58:11 PM	#2650
Siggu Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 72 Buenos Aires, Argentina	I just LOVE using Sableye with Substitute instead of Taunt since the last moments before Excadrill's ban. While it won't stallbreak anything without Taunt, it works against offensive teams, scouting Choice sets (Letting an opposing Latios Draco Meteor to -4 or -6 to get a 'free' switch-in is too good not to be tempted by that), wasting Dual Screens turns, getting an opportunity to Will-o-wisp without thinking of the possibility of it missing AND getting free Foul Play and Recover turns I've also used Amoonguss on one of my teams - the ability to remove Toxic Spikes just by switching in AND checking a lot of common rain pokémon (Specs Keldeo using Hydro Pump and Tornadus-T being the main exceptions) is amazing, and it becomes even better when you realize it has Regenerator, Clear Smog and Spore Another underused pokémon I've been using recently is Hitmontop, as my secondary physical wall, rapid spinner, Intimidator and U-Turn sponge - a unique combination that doesn't make it OU because of... well... the fact it doesn't learn Drain Punch and most stall teams being a liability nowadays