OU RMT, I'm new here :D

Arquebus · Dec 9th, 2012, 9:02:13 AM

Hi there! :D
Ever since I started competitive battling I've had a fascination with other games as well, what I thought was a simple minded game in pokemon transformed into a complex battle of minds where people can have fun and play for pure competitive sport as well. But enough of my rambling, without further ado this is my team!

Rotom-W @Leftovers
EVs: 184 HP / 4 Def / 144 SpA / 176 Spe
Nature: Modest (+Sp.Attk,-Attk)
Ability:Levitate

-Hidden Power (Ice)
-Volt Switch
-Hydro Pump
-Will-O-Wisp

Switched out Donphan for Rotom-W. I felt as if Donphan was just dead weight and death fodder for the team so I decided that I could take out Donphan and replace it with something that could prevent a pokemon from hampering my Haxorus or Weavile's potential sweep. Since both of my sweepers are weak to the 2 common priority moves, Ice Shard and Bullet Punch, I thought Rotom-W would be a great addition to the team because it resisted both and could threaten Scizor and Mamoswine out with Will-O-Wisp.

Weavile @Life Orb
EVs: 252 Attk/ 224 Spd/ 32 Sp.Def
Nature: Jolly (+Spe,-Sp.Attk)
Ability:Pressure

-Ice Punch
-Night Slash
-Low Kick
-Ice Shard

I've compared my old choiced Weavile to this new set and I have to say I like this set much better, since Weavile was fairly easy to switch into because of it being choice locked 2 things became very common.
1.) I got revenged killed myself
2.) A bulky sweeper would switch in and start setting up
Because of these i decided that maybe choiced Weavile isn't really the greatest thing ever. The LO set however, even though it doesn't have the speed/power of the choice set, is much more versatile. This puts less pressure on my team and lets me keep my momentum going or even increase it without risk of being threatened out.

Forretress @Red Card
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 Sp.Def
Nature:Relaxed (+Def,-Spe)
Ability:Sturdy

-Volt Switch
-Stealth Rock
-Earthquake
-Rapid Spin

I looked at my Weavile and immediately noticed its flaws, weakness to stealth
rocks and is checked by the infamous Scizor. I needed something that would be able to spin away entry hazards and/or be able to force Scizor to switch out. I looked at Forretress which accomplishes both roles and is able to set up hazards for the rest of team. Red card is there so I make sure Scizor switches out.

Pringles @Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Sp.Def/ 4 Def
Nature: Calm (+Sp.Def,-Attk)
Ability: Water Absorb

-Recover
-Scald
-Shadow ball
-Taunt

Access to an instant recovery move, great defensive typing, and 2 abilities that work great for the role it has in my team, ladies and gentlemen, Its Jellicent. I looked at some of the other things my team had a problem with and i saw that my team was pretty susceptible to fire-type moves. Jellicent sponges these hits and can counter attack with scald/shadow ball its basically my Forretress' best friend (BFFS FO' LIFE YO) it also functions as my special wall that's able to literally sponge water type attacks and other specially oriented moves that may threaten my other pokemon.

Gengar @Black Sludge
EVs: 252 Sp.Attk/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP
Nature: Timid (+Spe,-Attk)
Ability: Levitate
-Substitute
-Disable
-Shadow Ball
-Focus Blast

Gengar is my new replacement for Volcarona, its role in my team is to annoy people and wear down some pokemon so that sweeping would be an easier job for my Landorus-T. SubDisable is pretty useful as most of the time pokemon only have one move to hit Gengar with and since Gengar is naturally fast he'll more often than not be able to set up a Sub and disable the next move which would either force a switch or make Gengar be able to do some damage to the pokemon should it choose to stay in.

Landorus-T @Life Orb
EVs: 252 Attk/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP
Nature: Adamant (+Attk,-Sp.Attk)
Ability: Intimidate

-Stone Edge
-Rock Polish
-Swords Dance
-Earthquake

I've put Landorus-T back in as the main sweeper, assuming i'm able to find a suitable Wish Passing partner for him hes gonna stay. I really like the idea of having a Wish passed onto Landorus-T as he is able to take hits quite nicely, well except for special hits but ya know it should be late game already so most of his bigger threats should be gone by then.

P.S: I would like to hear suggestions and comments about how I can make my team better than it is right now. Any kind of feedback whether positive and/or negative is greatly appreciated. Thanks for reading this :DDD

Organization Member XIV · Dec 9th, 2012, 9:38:30 AM

I suggest Swampert as a Stealth Rocker over Golurk. I know you are using Golurk as a spin blocker, but Swampert has a better defensive typing and has STAB Waterfall/Scald. It can also phaze with Roar, which is nice for racking up hazards damage, and can still limit Volt-Turning's effectiveness.

Swampert@Leftovers
Impish Nature
Torrent
252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Atk
Stealth Rock
Roar
Waterfall/Scald
Earthquake

Gliscor is also a good SR setter, and is a great Terrakion check

Gliscor@Toxic Orb
Impish Nature
Poison Heal
252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Atk
Stealth Rock
Earthquake
Ice Fang
Sub/Protect

Alexander. · Dec 9th, 2012, 9:59:31 AM

Hello,

Strange but nice team you have here! At first, I'd use this evs spread for Golurk: 176 HP / 168 Atk / 164 Spe and I'd use Shadow Punch in place of Protect, it's a strong STAB and it's useful against some psychic and ghost pokèmons. Then, I don't like a lot EQ on Forretress, I'd use Gyro Ball for have an another response to Terrakion and to dragons types and because EQ isn't very useful here (you have already Volt Switch to avoid the trap by Magnezone / Magneton). Finally, I'd use Yache Berry in place of Life Orb on your Landorus-T because with Yache Berry you can't be revenge-killed by Mamoswine and by some ice beam from bulky water types and because I don't like a lot the recoil from Life Orb.

Hope it helped, good luck :)

~Alexander

Arquebus · Dec 9th, 2012, 10:11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Organization Member XIV

I suggest Swampert as a Stealth Rocker over Golurk. I know you are using Golurk as a spin blocker, but Swampert has a better defensive typing and has STAB Waterfall/Scald. It can also phaze with Roar, which is nice for racking up hazards damage, and can still limit Volt-Turning's effectiveness.

Swampert@Leftovers
Impish Nature
Torrent
252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Atk
Stealth Rock
Roar
Waterfall/Scald
Earthquake

Gliscor is also a good SR setter, and is a great Terrakion check

Gliscor@Toxic Orb
Impish Nature
Poison Heal
252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Atk
Stealth Rock
Earthquake
Ice Fang
Sub/Protect

Thanks for the suggestions! I'll go ahead try out Gliscor and Swampert :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat A l e x a n d e r

Hello,

Strange but nice team you have here! At first, I'd use this evs spread for Golurk: 176 HP / 168 Atk / 164 Spe and I'd use Shadow Punch in place of Protect, it's a strong STAB and it's useful against some psychic and ghost pokèmons. Then, I don't like a lot EQ on Forretress, I'd use Gyro Ball for have an another response to Terrakion and to dragons types and because EQ isn't very useful here (you have already Volt Switch to avoid the trap by Magnezone / Magneton). Finally, I'd use Yache Berry in place of Life Orb on your Landorus-T because with Yache Berry you can't be revenge-killed by Mamoswine and by some ice beam from bulky water types and because I don't like a lot the recoil from Life Orb.

Hope it helped, good luck :)

~Alexander

Yeah I've had previous issues with my forretress, thanks for pointing out the holes in my team so I can make it better :D

Organization Member XIV · Dec 9th, 2012, 10:13:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Arquebus

Thanks for the suggestions! I'll go ahead try out Gliscor and Swampert :D

Just making sure you know I mentioned both as replacements for Golurk ONLY, not anyone else.

Arquebus · Dec 9th, 2012, 10:16:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Organization Member XIV

Just making sure you know I mentioned both as replacements for Golurk ONLY, not anyone else.

Of course lol XD

fryfrey · Dec 9th, 2012, 10:24:02 AM

Hello there. Lets get going shall we? Edited importable pokes can be found at the end of this post. At a glance this team looks pretty solid! My only big issues are with the following pokemon:

Golurk: Golurk only has 89/80/80 Defenses and is REALLY slow. So slow even Breloom runs circles around it, and wanting the speed of Breloom is not a good place to be. For a much better Ground Stealth Rocker, go for Donphan. It has great physical bulk, and can set up more reliably than Golurk, especially due to Sturdy. It even has the ability to Rapid Spin, if you ever wish to have an extra spinner just in case. Sure, it's slower than Golurk, but much more usable bulk makes it an overall better choice.

Landorus: ICE SHARD. I cannot stress this enough! Ice Shard will destroy you! I recommend you use him as either an early or late game sweeper, because once the opposing team gains momentum, they'll start assaulting you with moves such as Surf and Ice Shard. Early game is good because most will have a who is incapable of sweeping, and has SR, so you can almost guarantee a boosting move up Late game is great as well because most of Landorus's counters are usually eliminated. The set on this is good, but it's success is dependent on when and how you play it.

Your team is pretty good! A nice defensive core is formed with Forretress and Jellicent and your offenses are pretty good with Weavile and Landorus. I'm not a fan of your Lucario, but I haven't had enough experience with him to make a judgement or constructive criticism.

Hope I helped.

Donphan's Set

ganj4lF · Dec 9th, 2012, 5:39:39 PM

Nice team, however I think you're kinda weak to Fire moves, having only one resistance, and a team which is generally weak to the special side. Sun team are going to be a pain to deal with, Venusaur can dismantle your whole team after SR and a Growth boost (Ice Shard deals 85% max, and he will keep itself healthy with Giga Drain to avoid dropping into KO range). Not only that but also Offensive Volcarona is a problem, since if either it carries Giga Drain or LO and Sunlight is up, Jellicent is 2HKO'd and the rest of your team is vaporized without any effort. Also, I feel that Forretress and Donphan's roles are largely redundant: both can spin and set up hazards, while tanking powerful physical hits (and your Lando-T can aid with Intimidate in physical tanking, so...). I suggest replacing your Volcarona with an Offensive Heatran. Heatran, as the premiere Sun check and Fire absorber, is a pretty big answer to Volcaronas and Fire teams. Since you lack a revenge killer, a Scarf Heatran could fit nicely on your team, it has the added boon to actually have some chances against Dugtrio and to be a quite underused set, thus carrying a surprise factor.

Heatran

Also, another concern in your team is the lack of an additional Water resistance. If Jellicent goes down somehow, you're going to be destroyed by Hydro Pump spams or similar strategies. I feel that Donphan and Forretress's roles are pretty much the same, so my suggestion is: ditch Spikes, move Stealth Rock from Donphan to Forretress, and replace Donphan with a LO Latias. Latias can take Water attacks forever, and can stop dangerous things like Keldeo, provide an additional Sun check, and drop powerful Draco Meteors on things that hope to come in on a more manageable CM version. It also provides an additional immunity to Ground, which is never bad since you actually carry Heatran.

Latias

With these modifications, you gain two hard hitters in Heatran and Latias, that better cover your weaknesses and while lacking set-up abilities, will help to weaken or kill things that may hamper Landorus's sweep.

Hope I helped. Good luck.

Arquebus · Dec 10th, 2012, 7:28:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat ganj4lF

Nice team, however I think you're kinda weak to Fire moves, having only one resistance, and a team which is generally weak to the special side. Sun team are going to be a pain to deal with, Venusaur can dismantle your whole team after SR and a Growth boost (Ice Shard deals 85% max, and he will keep itself healthy with Giga Drain to avoid dropping into KO range). Not only that but also Offensive Volcarona is a problem, since if either it carries Giga Drain or LO and Sunlight is up, Jellicent is 2HKO'd and the rest of your team is vaporized without any effort. Also, I feel that Forretress and Donphan's roles are largely redundant: both can spin and set up hazards, while tanking powerful physical hits (and your Lando-T can aid with Intimidate in physical tanking, so...). I suggest replacing your Volcarona with an Offensive Heatran. Heatran, as the premiere Sun check and Fire absorber, is a pretty big answer to Volcaronas and Fire teams. Since you lack a revenge killer, a Scarf Heatran could fit nicely on your team, it has the added boon to actually have some chances against Dugtrio and to be a quite underused set, thus carrying a surprise factor.

Heatran

Also, another concern in your team is the lack of an additional Water resistance. If Jellicent goes down somehow, you're going to be destroyed by Hydro Pump spams or similar strategies. I feel that Donphan and Forretress's roles are pretty much the same, so my suggestion is: ditch Spikes, move Stealth Rock from Donphan to Forretress, and replace Donphan with a LO Latias. Latias can take Water attacks forever, and can stop dangerous things like Keldeo, provide an additional Sun check, and drop powerful Draco Meteors on things that hope to come in on a more manageable CM version. It also provides an additional immunity to Ground, which is never bad since you actually carry Heatran.

Latias

With these modifications, you gain two hard hitters in Heatran and Latias, that better cover your weaknesses and while lacking set-up abilities, will help to weaken or kill things that may hamper Landorus's sweep.

Hope I helped. Good luck.

thanks for the suggestions, will try! :D

Remedy · Dec 10th, 2012, 9:19:49 AM

Hi, there are a lot of pokemons I love in this team. Especially Weavile who is terribly underrated, and Volcarona... because Volcarona is damn powerful.

First, I do not think Venusaur is a threat at all. Weavile deals with it, no matter what happens. Since your Ice Shard does over 80%, since he will use HP Fire and not Giga Drain (it doesn't kill you, in fact not even at +2), there is no reason to be afraid. You have a good chance to kill it with SR damage, a 100% chance to do so with Spikes and SR, and anyway LO recoil will eventually kill the Venusaur.
A Growth can be annoying, but you can bait the LO recoil with Forretress then revenge kill it swiftly anyway.

However, there are several weakness I can see.

Ganj4lf is very right when he talks about your Water resistances, you got Jellicent but the whole rest of your team gets totally annihilated by a Scarf Keldeo for instance. I know, Jellicent walls it, but Jellicent can do nothing, he can't set-up and pull off a sweep.
Thus, you need an offensive option to deal with Rains, because at the moment, Bulky Waters are your worst nightmare.

Here are my changes :

DD Dragonite > Donphan

Why, and what does it fix ?

Dragonite is usually a sample in any weatherless team for the resistances he brings against Rain and Sun teams. He's really hard to wall, people most of the time go for the revenge kill after baiting an Outrage. However with moves like Extreme Speed, after some DD it's really not so simple to kill this guy.
He will bring you what you need against Sun Teams, an extra priority move to deal with the Chlorophyl sweepers, and a resistance to both Fire and Grass moves. Keldeo being most of the time choiced, you can find many rooms to set-up. Politoed, Tentacruel etc, are all set-up fodders for your Dragonite considering the Lum Berry to clean a possible Burn or Toxic. You also win a stronger offensive presence in comparison to Donphan or Latias.
Donphan is out of place here in my opinion, his role collides with Forretress's one, and he can't really be an offensive threat. His niche is tiny, and he doesn't fit in many teams.

This change fixes many issues in one. But I see other minor changes that you could do to improve the team. here I go :

- Given the departure of Donphan I'd give Forretress SR.

It's usually not the best idea to put both SR and Spin on a single pokemon, but well, there is no other choice here. You don't need that much Spikes, else, shift your team for a Deoxys-D offensive team. But that's not the subject.

- Change Earthquake for GyroBall

What is the purpose of Earthquake here ? To me this move is here to catch Magnezone on the switch, or thanks to Sturdy. But you got Volt-Switch for that, no need to waste another move slot for a single pokemon. You are far less set-up bait, and you can hit Levitate pokemons like Latias or Gengar. Especially Gengar, since it's probably a pokemon who will like to switch on your Forretress, don't make his life easier (yes I know you can Volt-Switch with a good prediction and trap him with Weavile, but once Gengar manage to sub, all your checks become seriously shaky).

- Change Weavile to a LO set, put these 4 EVs in SpD

This is my personal choice, coming from my personal experience. Weavile doesn't like to be locked against a pokemon he can't hurt. Usually you prefer switch the moves with your amazing coverage. The Banded version doesn't land to many extra kills to worth the lost of the diversity. Weavile isn't a pokemon that love to switch in and out given the SR Weakness.
For the EVs, there is no reason to put them in Def, Weavile will die to any Physical attack, it's better to put it into SpD (his special bulk isn't that bad at all).

- Change Volcarona to a Lead set

With Dragonite, you become really weak to SR. But you got Forretress right ? I don't think it's enough. Volcarona performs really well as Lead, because you won't be killed by SR and random damage so easily.
I use myself this set on a team I made, this is really powerful and anti-metagame. This is the best offensive Deoxys-D counter (and reliable, since most of the usual Deoxys-D counter can be beaten by Magic Coat or.. Skill Swap/Pursuiter).
With this self-made set/EVs, you can outspeed Deoxys-D Timid version, and kill it with +1 Bug Buzz (they will probably Taunt you the first turn as you Quiver Dance). With Focus Sash and Giga Drain, you can pull off a sweep against a lot of classic Volcarona checks (like Terrakion scarf). Fire Blast is the Stab. This set is totally wrecked by Flying pokemons under Rain, but guess what ? you got a Weavile for this matter no ? :)
Moreover they need to put Politoed against you to activate the Hurricane spamming, if you don't fail the prediction game, you should be able to get out of here (don't show Giga Drain if you see that the Politoed is trying to kill you, and stack Quiver Dance! at +3 it's a 0HKO with Giga Drain, and Hurricane from Specs Tornadus-T does 65%, at +4 it does only 55 to Volcarona, while Giga Drain eats 50 % of Tornadus-T's life).
I did put the extra 80 EVs in SpD to maximize the recovery from Giga Drain and the boosts from Quiver Dance.

The sets :

...

Good luck with your team, I hope I helped !

TL;DR

...

Arquebus · Dec 11th, 2012, 7:50:09 AM

Thanks for the help!, I'll be sure to edit this team then try it out! :D

**dragonuser** · Dec 11th, 2012, 7:52:33 PM

Hey there,

This team looks pretty cool, but I do notice a few weaknesses. The most notable weakness is Sun teams. Venusaur alone can do incredible damage to your team, and it can setup on a lot of your Pokemon. Weavile also can't ohko it with Ice Shard (if you even run it), so that becomes a pretty lackluster check. To help with this I would recommend DD Dragonite > Haxorus. I would normally advise against replacing your main sweeper, but since you have done it once already, might as well do it again to get a similar Pokemon but one that helps vs Sun teams. Dragonite is a fantastic Sun check, and is a very solid sweeper in general. I would use the set Remedy posted except use an EV spread of 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd. This may seem like a very minor difference, but it gets Dragonite one more switch in to Stealth Rock. Some other minor moveset changes would be changing Red Card on Forretress to Leftovers. While Red Card is nice, Leftovers gives a lot more overall utility and gives Forretress some form of recovery. Also while this is my personal preference, I would change Weavile's set to Ice Shard / Ice Punch / Brick Break / Night Slash. Weavile is extraordinarily frail, making SD a really risky choice. It is often better to just go with more coverage + LO for power. Ok so Jellicent seems somewhat unnecessary on this team. Rotom-W and Gengar really do much of what Jellicent does, freeing the spot up for other checks. One note, if you do make this change I would make your Rotom-W Specially Defensive.

Rotom-w set

So at the moment you lack a reliable way to deal with Thundurus-T. In the rain it can spam Thunder's carefree and deal huge damage. I would recommend using Latias over Jellicent. Latias is still a solid check to rain, and Keldeo, like Jellicent was, while checking Thundurus-T. Latias also check sun, giving you a secondary check. I would use a LO Pivot set on this team. Latias also maintains great offensive pressure, while acting as a great sponge, much like Jellicent.

Latias set

Remedy · Dec 12th, 2012, 3:31:10 AM

I'd keep to my rate.
However I strongly agree with Dragonuser on the Weavile's point.

You misunderstood Weavile's job and potential. He's by no mean a wallbreaker, he's here to pick up frail sweepers like nobody else. Hence you don't need SD. You gets revenge by Mach and Bullet Punch anyways.
Weavile will be here to stop any Dragon/Therian, trap stuff and that's it.

Some teams don't need to trap Magic Bouncers, Gengar, Starmie etc.
I would say that yours doesn't.
That's why you should use :

Weavile @ Life Orb
Jolly Nature
252 Atk / 32 SpD / 224 Spe
- Ice Punch
- Night Slash
- Ice Shard
- Low Kick

Some explanations :

- Why 224 Spe ?

The only pokemon in OU that you need to outspeed is Tornadus-T.

- Why Low Kick > Brick Break ?

Here are the pokemons that you hit harder with Low Kick in the OU environment :

Terrakion, Hydreigon, Lucario, Ferrothorn, Magnezone, Tyranitar, Heatran, Cloyster, Abomasnow, Kyurem, Kyurem-B

Which pokemons are hit harder by Brick Break ?

Blissey and Chansey but you both fail to 2HKO them even with Brick Break factoring Eviolite and Leftovers (but you have a chance with Blissey with some prior damages).

And of course you can break walls like Reflect, but nobody uses it anymore, it doesn't worth the cost of power.

Now one thing : Never use Weavile without Ice Shard in OU ! (because you slashed it as a second option)

*I'm also a little confused because you made changes with no relations with the advices that people told you. Did you try them and found them bad or ?

Arquebus · Dec 12th, 2012, 7:52:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Remedy

I'd keep to my rate.
However I strongly agree with Dragonuser on the Weavile's point.

You misunderstood Weavile's job and potential. He's by no mean a wallbreaker, he's here to pick up frail sweepers like nobody else. Hence you don't need SD. You gets revenge by Mach and Bullet Punch anyways.
Weavile will be here to stop any Dragon/Therian, trap stuff and that's it.

Some teams don't need to trap Magic Bouncers, Gengar, Starmie etc.
I would say that yours doesn't.
That's why you should use :

Weavile @ Life Orb
Jolly Nature
252 Atk / 32 SpD / 224 Spe
- Ice Punch
- Night Slash
- Ice Shard
- Low Kick

Some explanations :

- Why 224 Spe ?

The only pokemon in OU that you need to outspeed is Tornadus-T.

- Why Low Kick > Brick Break ?

Here are the pokemons that you hit harder with Low Kick in the OU environment :

Terrakion, Hydreigon, Lucario, Ferrothorn, Magnezone, Tyranitar, Heatran, Cloyster, Abomasnow, Kyurem, Kyurem-B

Which pokemons are hit harder by Brick Break ?

Blissey and Chansey but you both fail to 2HKO them even with Brick Break factoring Eviolite and Leftovers (but you have a chance with Blissey with some prior damages).

And of course you can break walls like Reflect, but nobody uses it anymore, it doesn't worth the cost of power.

Now one thing : Never use Weavile without Ice Shard in OU ! (because you slashed it as a second option)

*I'm also a little confused because you made changes with no relations with the advices that people told you. Did you try them and found them bad or ?

You must be referring to my rotom-W and haxorus, I'm updating this team as I go so expect a bunch of changes made until I like the final outcome of the team, Landorus-T functions much better than Haxorus in my opinion so im gonna put him back in, for the Rotom-W I found him much more useful in sponging hits and to keep up momentum. However Landorus-T, as pointed out by my friend, does much better when accompanied by a Wish-Passer, any ideas? :D

Dec 9th, 2012, 9:02:13 AM	#1
Arquebus Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 6	OU RMT, I'm new here :D Hi there! :D Ever since I started competitive battling I've had a fascination with other games as well, what I thought was a simple minded game in pokemon transformed into a complex battle of minds where people can have fun and play for pure competitive sport as well. But enough of my rambling, without further ado this is my team! Rotom-W @Leftovers EVs: 184 HP / 4 Def / 144 SpA / 176 Spe Nature: Modest (+Sp.Attk,-Attk) Ability:Levitate -Hidden Power (Ice) -Volt Switch -Hydro Pump -Will-O-Wisp Switched out Donphan for Rotom-W. I felt as if Donphan was just dead weight and death fodder for the team so I decided that I could take out Donphan and replace it with something that could prevent a pokemon from hampering my Haxorus or Weavile's potential sweep. Since both of my sweepers are weak to the 2 common priority moves, Ice Shard and Bullet Punch, I thought Rotom-W would be a great addition to the team because it resisted both and could threaten Scizor and Mamoswine out with Will-O-Wisp. Weavile @Life Orb EVs: 252 Attk/ 224 Spd/ 32 Sp.Def Nature: Jolly (+Spe,-Sp.Attk) Ability:Pressure -Ice Punch -Night Slash -Low Kick -Ice Shard I've compared my old choiced Weavile to this new set and I have to say I like this set much better, since Weavile was fairly easy to switch into because of it being choice locked 2 things became very common. 1.) I got revenged killed myself 2.) A bulky sweeper would switch in and start setting up Because of these i decided that maybe choiced Weavile isn't really the greatest thing ever. The LO set however, even though it doesn't have the speed/power of the choice set, is much more versatile. This puts less pressure on my team and lets me keep my momentum going or even increase it without risk of being threatened out. Forretress @Red Card EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 Sp.Def Nature:Relaxed (+Def,-Spe) Ability:Sturdy -Volt Switch -Stealth Rock -Earthquake -Rapid Spin I looked at my Weavile and immediately noticed its flaws, weakness to stealth rocks and is checked by the infamous Scizor. I needed something that would be able to spin away entry hazards and/or be able to force Scizor to switch out. I looked at Forretress which accomplishes both roles and is able to set up hazards for the rest of team. Red card is there so I make sure Scizor switches out. Pringles @Leftovers EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Sp.Def/ 4 Def Nature: Calm (+Sp.Def,-Attk) Ability: Water Absorb -Recover -Scald -Shadow ball -Taunt Access to an instant recovery move, great defensive typing, and 2 abilities that work great for the role it has in my team, ladies and gentlemen, Its Jellicent. I looked at some of the other things my team had a problem with and i saw that my team was pretty susceptible to fire-type moves. Jellicent sponges these hits and can counter attack with scald/shadow ball its basically my Forretress' best friend (BFFS FO' LIFE YO) it also functions as my special wall that's able to literally sponge water type attacks and other specially oriented moves that may threaten my other pokemon. Gengar @Black Sludge EVs: 252 Sp.Attk/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP Nature: Timid (+Spe,-Attk) Ability: Levitate -Substitute -Disable -Shadow Ball -Focus Blast Gengar is my new replacement for Volcarona, its role in my team is to annoy people and wear down some pokemon so that sweeping would be an easier job for my Landorus-T. SubDisable is pretty useful as most of the time pokemon only have one move to hit Gengar with and since Gengar is naturally fast he'll more often than not be able to set up a Sub and disable the next move which would either force a switch or make Gengar be able to do some damage to the pokemon should it choose to stay in. Landorus-T @Life Orb EVs: 252 Attk/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP Nature: Adamant (+Attk,-Sp.Attk) Ability: Intimidate -Stone Edge -Rock Polish -Swords Dance -Earthquake I've put Landorus-T back in as the main sweeper, assuming i'm able to find a suitable Wish Passing partner for him hes gonna stay. I really like the idea of having a Wish passed onto Landorus-T as he is able to take hits quite nicely, well except for special hits but ya know it should be late game already so most of his bigger threats should be gone by then. P.S: I would like to hear suggestions and comments about how I can make my team better than it is right now. Any kind of feedback whether positive and/or negative is greatly appreciated. Thanks for reading this :DDD Last edited by Arquebus; Dec 12th, 2012 at 8:42:44 AM.

Dec 9th, 2012, 9:38:30 AM	#2
Organization Member XIV Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 624 On top of a giant dragon's back.	I suggest Swampert as a Stealth Rocker over Golurk. I know you are using Golurk as a spin blocker, but Swampert has a better defensive typing and has STAB Waterfall/Scald. It can also phaze with Roar, which is nice for racking up hazards damage, and can still limit Volt-Turning's effectiveness. Swampert@Leftovers Impish Nature Torrent 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Atk Stealth Rock Roar Waterfall/Scald Earthquake Gliscor is also a good SR setter, and is a great Terrakion check Gliscor@Toxic Orb Impish Nature Poison Heal 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Atk Stealth Rock Earthquake Ice Fang Sub/Protect __________________ Bearkiller on PS, and bearhugger on IRC. I play League of Legends, so there's that. Also free Genesect plz. Me in real life.

Dec 9th, 2012, 10:24:02 AM	#7
fryfrey Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 155 Is probably the only person who doesn't do IRC.	Hello there. Lets get going shall we? Edited importable pokes can be found at the end of this post. At a glance this team looks pretty solid! My only big issues are with the following pokemon: Golurk: Golurk only has 89/80/80 Defenses and is REALLY slow. So slow even Breloom runs circles around it, and wanting the speed of Breloom is not a good place to be. For a much better Ground Stealth Rocker, go for Donphan. It has great physical bulk, and can set up more reliably than Golurk, especially due to Sturdy. It even has the ability to Rapid Spin, if you ever wish to have an extra spinner just in case. Sure, it's slower than Golurk, but much more usable bulk makes it an overall better choice. Landorus: ICE SHARD. I cannot stress this enough! Ice Shard will destroy you! I recommend you use him as either an early or late game sweeper, because once the opposing team gains momentum, they'll start assaulting you with moves such as Surf and Ice Shard. Early game is good because most will have a who is incapable of sweeping, and has SR, so you can almost guarantee a boosting move up Late game is great as well because most of Landorus's counters are usually eliminated. The set on this is good, but it's success is dependent on when and how you play it. Your team is pretty good! A nice defensive core is formed with Forretress and Jellicent and your offenses are pretty good with Weavile and Landorus. I'm not a fan of your Lucario, but I haven't had enough experience with him to make a judgement or constructive criticism. Hope I helped. Donphan's Set Donphan @ Ice Gem Trait: Sturdy EVs: 4 Atk / 252 Def / 252 HP Impish Nature - Earthquake - Ice Shard - Rapid Spin - Stealth Rock __________________ <Scarfwynaut> can't people just sit around and eat a cheese wheel? <Scarfwynaut> that is my kind of social gathering Last edited by fryfrey; Dec 9th, 2012 at 1:08:57 PM.

Dec 9th, 2012, 5:39:39 PM	#8
ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science! Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 710 Italy	Nice team, however I think you're kinda weak to Fire moves, having only one resistance, and a team which is generally weak to the special side. Sun team are going to be a pain to deal with, Venusaur can dismantle your whole team after SR and a Growth boost (Ice Shard deals 85% max, and he will keep itself healthy with Giga Drain to avoid dropping into KO range). Not only that but also Offensive Volcarona is a problem, since if either it carries Giga Drain or LO and Sunlight is up, Jellicent is 2HKO'd and the rest of your team is vaporized without any effort. Also, I feel that Forretress and Donphan's roles are largely redundant: both can spin and set up hazards, while tanking powerful physical hits (and your Lando-T can aid with Intimidate in physical tanking, so...). I suggest replacing your Volcarona with an Offensive Heatran. Heatran, as the premiere Sun check and Fire absorber, is a pretty big answer to Volcaronas and Fire teams. Since you lack a revenge killer, a Scarf Heatran could fit nicely on your team, it has the added boon to actually have some chances against Dugtrio and to be a quite underused set, thus carrying a surprise factor. Heatran Heatran @ Choice Scarf \| Flash Fire Timid \| 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe - Overheat - Flamethrower - Dragon Pulse / HP Ice - Earth Power Also, another concern in your team is the lack of an additional Water resistance. If Jellicent goes down somehow, you're going to be destroyed by Hydro Pump spams or similar strategies. I feel that Donphan and Forretress's roles are pretty much the same, so my suggestion is: ditch Spikes, move Stealth Rock from Donphan to Forretress, and replace Donphan with a LO Latias. Latias can take Water attacks forever, and can stop dangerous things like Keldeo, provide an additional Sun check, and drop powerful Draco Meteors on things that hope to come in on a more manageable CM version. It also provides an additional immunity to Ground, which is never bad since you actually carry Heatran. Latias Latias @ Life Orb \| Levitate Timid \| 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe - Draco Meteor - Surf / Psyshock - HP Fire / Psyshock - Roost With these modifications, you gain two hard hitters in Heatran and Latias, that better cover your weaknesses and while lacking set-up abilities, will help to weaken or kill things that may hamper Landorus's sweep. Hope I helped. Good luck. __________________ Counter that Pokemon project: Mk III & Warstory \| Mk IV RMTs: The HOutsiders (also the other ones if anyone likes lurking my old posts) Take a look at this before starting an argument Not accepting rating requests anymore. Sorry!

Dec 10th, 2012, 9:19:49 AM	#10
Remedy Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 496 I tell you I'm a Tensai	Hi, there are a lot of pokemons I love in this team. Especially Weavile who is terribly underrated, and Volcarona... because Volcarona is damn powerful. First, I do not think Venusaur is a threat at all. Weavile deals with it, no matter what happens. Since your Ice Shard does over 80%, since he will use HP Fire and not Giga Drain (it doesn't kill you, in fact not even at +2), there is no reason to be afraid. You have a good chance to kill it with SR damage, a 100% chance to do so with Spikes and SR, and anyway LO recoil will eventually kill the Venusaur. A Growth can be annoying, but you can bait the LO recoil with Forretress then revenge kill it swiftly anyway. However, there are several weakness I can see. Ganj4lf is very right when he talks about your Water resistances, you got Jellicent but the whole rest of your team gets totally annihilated by a Scarf Keldeo for instance. I know, Jellicent walls it, but Jellicent can do nothing, he can't set-up and pull off a sweep. Thus, you need an offensive option to deal with Rains, because at the moment, Bulky Waters are your worst nightmare. Here are my changes : DD Dragonite > Donphan *Why, and what does it fix ?* Dragonite is usually a sample in any weatherless team for the resistances he brings against Rain and Sun teams. He's really hard to wall, people most of the time go for the revenge kill after baiting an Outrage. However with moves like Extreme Speed, after some DD it's really not so simple to kill this guy. He will bring you what you need against Sun Teams, an extra priority move to deal with the Chlorophyl sweepers, and a resistance to both Fire and Grass moves. Keldeo being most of the time choiced, you can find many rooms to set-up. Politoed, Tentacruel etc, are all set-up fodders for your Dragonite considering the Lum Berry to clean a possible Burn or Toxic. You also win a stronger offensive presence in comparison to Donphan or Latias. Donphan is out of place here in my opinion, his role collides with Forretress's one, and he can't really be an offensive threat. His niche is tiny, and he doesn't fit in many teams. This change fixes many issues in one. But I see other minor changes that you could do to improve the team. here I go : *- Given the departure of Donphan I'd give Forretress SR.* It's usually not the best idea to put both SR and Spin on a single pokemon, but well, there is no other choice here. You don't need that much Spikes, else, shift your team for a Deoxys-D offensive team. But that's not the subject. *- Change Earthquake for GyroBall* What is the purpose of Earthquake here ? To me this move is here to catch Magnezone on the switch, or thanks to Sturdy. But you got Volt-Switch for that, no need to waste another move slot for a single pokemon. You are far less set-up bait, and you can hit Levitate pokemons like Latias or Gengar. Especially Gengar, since it's probably a pokemon who will like to switch on your Forretress, don't make his life easier (yes I know you can Volt-Switch with a good prediction and trap him with Weavile, but once Gengar manage to sub, all your checks become seriously shaky). *- Change Weavile to a LO set, put these 4 EVs in SpD* This is my personal choice, coming from my personal experience. Weavile doesn't like to be locked against a pokemon he can't hurt. Usually you prefer switch the moves with your amazing coverage. The Banded version doesn't land to many extra kills to worth the lost of the diversity. Weavile isn't a pokemon that love to switch in and out given the SR Weakness. For the EVs, there is no reason to put them in Def, Weavile will die to any Physical attack, it's better to put it into SpD (his special bulk isn't that bad at all). *- Change Volcarona to a Lead set* With Dragonite, you become really weak to SR. But you got Forretress right ? I don't think it's enough. Volcarona performs really well as Lead, because you won't be killed by SR and random damage so easily. I use myself this set on a team I made, this is really powerful and anti-metagame. This is the best offensive Deoxys-D counter (and reliable, since most of the usual Deoxys-D counter can be beaten by Magic Coat or.. Skill Swap/Pursuiter). With this self-made set/EVs, you can outspeed Deoxys-D Timid version, and kill it with +1 Bug Buzz (they will probably Taunt you the first turn as you Quiver Dance). With Focus Sash and Giga Drain, you can pull off a sweep against a lot of classic Volcarona checks (like Terrakion scarf). Fire Blast is the Stab. This set is totally wrecked by Flying pokemons under Rain, but guess what ? you got a Weavile for this matter no ? :) Moreover they need to put Politoed against you to activate the Hurricane spamming, if you don't fail the prediction game, you should be able to get out of here (don't show Giga Drain if you see that the Politoed is trying to kill you, and stack Quiver Dance! at +3 it's a 0HKO with Giga Drain, and Hurricane from Specs Tornadus-T does 65%, at +4 it does only 55 to Volcarona, while Giga Drain eats 50 % of Tornadus-T's life). I did put the extra 80 EVs in SpD to maximize the recovery from Giga Drain and the boosts from Quiver Dance. The sets : ... Dragonite @ Lum Berry 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe Adamant nature - Dragon Dance - Outrage - Fire Punch - Extreme Speed Volcarona @ Focus Sash 252 SpA / 80 SpD / 176 Spe Timid Nature - Quiver Dance - Giga Drain - Bug Buzz - Fire Blast Good luck with your team, I hope I helped ! TL;DR ... Dragonite DD > Donphan Volcarona => Lead Set Weavile => LO Set and 4 EVs in SpD Forretress => SR > Spikes and Gyroball > Earthquake __________________ We must not let daylight in upon the magic. *VM me for a rate in BW2 OU, my advices are free for now* Check my last RMT -Friend's Prophecy- ! And give me your opinion ! http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3482863*

Dec 9th, 2012, 9:59:31 AM	#3
Alexander. Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 1,188	Hello, Strange but nice team you have here! At first, I'd use this evs spread for Golurk: 176 HP / 168 Atk / 164 Spe and I'd use Shadow Punch in place of Protect, it's a strong STAB and it's useful against some psychic and ghost pokèmons. Then, I don't like a lot EQ on Forretress, I'd use Gyro Ball for have an another response to Terrakion and to dragons types and because EQ isn't very useful here (you have already Volt Switch to avoid the trap by Magnezone / Magneton). Finally, I'd use Yache Berry in place of Life Orb on your Landorus-T because with Yache Berry you can't be revenge-killed by Mamoswine and by some ice beam from bulky water types and because I don't like a lot the recoil from Life Orb. Hope it helped, good luck :) ~Alexander

Dec 11th, 2012, 7:50:09 AM	#11
Arquebus Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 6	Thanks for the help!, I'll be sure to edit this team then try it out! :D

Dec 11th, 2012, 7:52:33 PM	#12
dragonuser I don't want to fight them again. No matter how many lives I've got, it wouldn't be enough. Moderator Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 1,346 Mentor	Hey there, This team looks pretty cool, but I do notice a few weaknesses. The most notable weakness is Sun teams. Venusaur alone can do incredible damage to your team, and it can setup on a lot of your Pokemon. Weavile also can't ohko it with Ice Shard (if you even run it), so that becomes a pretty lackluster check. To help with this I would recommend DD Dragonite > Haxorus. I would normally advise against replacing your main sweeper, but since you have done it once already, might as well do it again to get a similar Pokemon but one that helps vs Sun teams. Dragonite is a fantastic Sun check, and is a very solid sweeper in general. I would use the set Remedy posted except use an EV spread of 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd. This may seem like a very minor difference, but it gets Dragonite one more switch in to Stealth Rock. Some other minor moveset changes would be changing Red Card on Forretress to Leftovers. While Red Card is nice, Leftovers gives a lot more overall utility and gives Forretress some form of recovery. Also while this is my personal preference, I would change Weavile's set to Ice Shard / Ice Punch / Brick Break / Night Slash. Weavile is extraordinarily frail, making SD a really risky choice. It is often better to just go with more coverage + LO for power. Ok so Jellicent seems somewhat unnecessary on this team. Rotom-W and Gengar really do much of what Jellicent does, freeing the spot up for other checks. One note, if you do make this change I would make your Rotom-W Specially Defensive. Rotom-w set Rotom-W @ Leftovers Trait: Levitate EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 SDef Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk) - Pain Split - Hydro Pump - Volt Switch - Will-O-Wisp So at the moment you lack a reliable way to deal with Thundurus-T. In the rain it can spam Thunder's carefree and deal huge damage. I would recommend using Latias over Jellicent. Latias is still a solid check to rain, and Keldeo, like Jellicent was, while checking Thundurus-T. Latias also check sun, giving you a secondary check. I would use a LO Pivot set on this team. Latias also maintains great offensive pressure, while acting as a great sponge, much like Jellicent. Latias set Latias (F) @ Life Orb Trait: Levitate EVs: 72 HP / 184 SAtk / 252 Spd Timid Nature - Draco Meteor - Surf - Psyshock - Recover

Dec 12th, 2012, 3:31:10 AM	#13
Remedy Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 496 I tell you I'm a Tensai	I'd keep to my rate. However I strongly agree with Dragonuser on the Weavile's point. You misunderstood Weavile's job and potential. He's by no mean a wallbreaker, he's here to pick up frail sweepers like nobody else. Hence you don't need SD. You gets revenge by Mach and Bullet Punch anyways. Weavile will be here to stop any Dragon/Therian, trap stuff and that's it. Some teams don't need to trap Magic Bouncers, Gengar, Starmie etc. I would say that yours doesn't. That's why you should use : Weavile @ Life Orb Jolly Nature 252 Atk / 32 SpD / 224 Spe - Ice Punch - Night Slash - Ice Shard - Low Kick *Some explanations :* - Why 224 Spe ? The only pokemon in OU that you need to outspeed is Tornadus-T. *- Why Low Kick > Brick Break ?* Here are the pokemons that you hit harder with Low Kick in the OU environment : Terrakion, Hydreigon, Lucario, Ferrothorn, Magnezone, Tyranitar, Heatran, Cloyster, Abomasnow, Kyurem, Kyurem-B *Which pokemons are hit harder by Brick Break ?* Blissey and Chansey but you both fail to 2HKO them even with Brick Break factoring Eviolite and Leftovers (but you have a chance with Blissey with some prior damages). And of course you can break walls like Reflect, but nobody uses it anymore, it doesn't worth the cost of power. Now one thing : Never use Weavile without Ice Shard in OU ! (because you slashed it as a second option) I'm also a little confused because you made changes with no relations with the advices that people told you. Did you try them and found them bad or ? __________________ We must not let daylight in upon the magic. VM me for a rate in BW2 OU, my advices are free for now* Check my last RMT -Friend's Prophecy- ! And give me your opinion ! http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3482863* Last edited by Remedy; Dec 12th, 2012 at 3:44:18 AM.