|Dec 8th, 2012, 3:36:55 AM||#1|
they call me... THE OGLEBOMB
Join Date: Oct 2009
Hey yo everybody, been a while since I've done one of these. Hail just recently got reintroduced into RU, and I was actually really excited to try it back out. This is a team that I had theorymonned beforehand and was excited to try it out. I really want to do this RMT to try and spark some more interest in the tier, it's super turbulent at the moment and is, in my opinion, the most fun it's been in a few months. I'm not going to do a teambuilding intro, as I'll explain that as I go. But I can tell you that I knew that I wanted to base the team around Specs Glaceon, hence the team name, and I knew that I had to make a team that could work well in hail. So, here we go.
Snover @ Focus Sash
Trait: Snow Warning
EVs: 4 Spd / 252 SAtk / 252 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Ice Shard
This is the best Snover set hands down, in my opinion, courtesy to Molk for showing it to me (I believe Trop or someone actually came up with it). Basically, Snover isn't going to be doing much in a match anyway, so the best thing to do with it is get hail up ASAP and blast whatever your opponent led with with Blizzard. Blizzard + Ice Shard actually gets quite a few nice KOs, such as on Accelgor and Galvantula, and Blizzard itself destroys opposing Grass-types. Giga Drain does a cool ~30% to Slowking, one of the mons this team can have some problems with if played really well, but doesn't see much use outside of that. HP Fire destroys enemy Snover and makes sure Rotom-F can't set up a Substitute on me for free.
Snover doesn't play a pivotal role on the team, besides setting up hail, and so I usually just sac it right away, especially if they lead with a Spiker. However, if the opponent has both a Slowking and Tangrowth in the wings and leads with something like Typhlosion, I may make a decision to save Snover for later and go to Poliwrath or Clefable.
Uxie @ Lum Berry
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
- Thunder Wave
- Stealth Rock
Poliwrath @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
- Circle Throw
- Sleep Talk
When I was building the team I had two choices: I could go all-out offensive and use Glaceon as part of an attacking BlizzSpam core, or I could go balance and leave Glaceon for the ending SMASH. I decided the latter sounded better. And so, I decided that if the latter was my goal, I needed a solid defensive core to get me to a point to where I could have Glaceon demolish the opposition.
Uxie is my Fighting-type counter, which I dearly needed after having lost a couple battles to a couple when I had Steelix in this slot. Luckily, Uxie fills that right up and still provides my team with the crucial Stealth Rock to keep Moltres and Archeops at bay. Thunder Wave works amazingly, allowing me to get a few key paralyzes to allow for a Glaceon sweep at the end. Uxie also acts as an all-purpose check to a huge multitude of Pokemon in the tier, allowing me to possibly sac one of my own teammates to make sure I put them down before bringing in Glaceon. The offensive set also ensures that I'm not quite as hazard weak as I was previously, so thanks to Silvershadow234 for that suggestion. With a Lum Berry I can also make sure I can paralyze big threats like Lilligant and enemy Choice Scarf Rotom-F; it also allows me to lead with Uxie against enemy Smeargle and limit it to just Stealth Rock or 1 layer of Spikes, and Psychic OHKOs Qwilfish.
Poliwrath completes the defensive core with Uxie and is the best Pokemon in RU right now, no exaggeration. The amount of threats he counters should be illegal, and the phazing he provides is just beautiful. He's my all-purpose counter to enemy Water-types, particularly Crawdaunt, as well as Escavalier and Durant. RestTalk is the only thing that actually makes Poliwrath worth while, and while on any other mon it's a hilarious concept with the new sleep mechanics, it's actually exactly what makes Poliwrath such an effective Aggron, Entei, and Rhydon counter as well.
Spiritomb @ Choice Band
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd
- Shadow Sneak
- Sucker Punch
Spiritomb makes a fantastic glue and is my main answer to Slowking should it rear its ugly head. Even if the Slowking user decides to stay in it'll eventually lose to CB Pursuit thanks to hail canceling out Leftovers recovery; at the very worst Spiritomb will leave it at low enough health for Glaceon to smash through it. Spiritomb also has the crucial role of crippling Clefable if it comes down to it with Trick. Usually Spiritomb will be content to just destroying Cresselia, Uxie, and whatever Ghost-type the opponent brought, or sniping Gallade with Shadow Sneak. Once the Psychic- or Ghost-type is gone though Spiritomb doesn't serve much of a purpose, and I'll usually sac it to leave an opportunity for Glaceon to get a free switch in, unless I feel that I may need Shadow Sneak or Sucker Punch later on.
Rotom-Frost @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ground]
Thanks to Silvershadow234 for the suggestion here. Choice Scarf Rotom-F actually fits perfectly into this team while not opening up any more weaknesses even though it's the 3rd Ice-type on the team. What makes Choice Scarf Rotom-F so beautiful is that it completely removes my former Qwilfish weakness, and destroys Archeops, Moltres, and Sceptile, all Pokemon that normally give this team some troubles. It also helps patch up my weakness to other stall teams by being able to Trick its Scarf onto the enemy should it come down to it such as on Calm Mind Cresselia and Clefable.
While the main goal of this team is to get Glaceon in safely so that it can smash, if they opponent is using a heavy offense team and I can't paralyze all of them I'll switch roles with Glaceon and Rotom-F, and let Rotom-F take the helm at the end of the battle and destroy the enemy with its super fast, but still powerful, Blizzard. Rotom-F also provides an Electric attack which it desperately needs as a whole, and being able to play scouting games with Uxie to get Glaceon in safely is just beautiful.
Glaceon @ Choice Specs
Trait: Ice Body
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Frost Breath
- Shadow Ball
The power of Specs Glaceon is just brutal. When you're cleanly 2HKOing 252 HP Cresselia, and OHKOing just about anything else, even with a Timid nature, you know you're dealing with a real monster. Now, while I usually wait until the end of the match to bring in Glaceon, if I feel that the opposing team is just too solid for me to open any real holes with my core, I'll break out Glaceon early on something like Dusknoir and blast it or whatever switches in away.
The moveset as a whole may need some explaining outside of the Glaceon SMASH with Blizzard part, as there's some weird options up there. Now, while Snow Cloak would typically be the better ability, it's been banned, and so we use Ice Body, which is actually pretty decent considering that this team is pretty hazard weak and so fighting off some Toxic Spikes or Stealth Rock damage is always nice. The downside to having to use Ice Body means I can't use Water Pulse, which would actually be a really nice option to have to blast away Aggron and Fire-types, but oh well.
With a Timid nature Glaceon Speed ties with Modest Nidoqueen, which is pretty unfortunate, but its making the best of a bad situation. That's also the sole reason I use Timid, if I could paralyze Nidoqueen then you can bet I'd use Modest, but oh well. Shadow Ball is solely there for Slowking, which Glaceon can eventually beat into submission if it comes down to it. Frost Breath is there for the unfortunate case that the opponent is left with something like CM Clefable that can PP stall my Blizzards.
Finally, we come to the choice of Hidden Power. There are three main choices of Hidden Power when dealing with Glaceon: Grass, Ground, and Fire. I decided to go with Grass because I needed a way to beat Poliwrath and Lanturn, while still hitting Slowking and getting a neutral hit on Qwilfish, Aggron, and Steelix all in one. Ground is nice though to wail on Fire-types, though Poliwrath and Clefable can usually handle them; it also completely annihilates Aggron. Lastly, Fire is nice to smash Escavalier, Cryogonal, and Ferroseed, but Poliwrath is usually enough for the former two, and the latter doesn't like Blizzard anyway.
Magmortar: Magmortar is about the only real threat to this team should it get in for free. Poliwrath can't switch in because of Thunderbolt, and Uxie can't switch into Fire Blast without the defensive investment. However, if I can get Uxie into it I should be able to paralyze it with Thunder Wave; however, if the opponent plays smartly they can pick off my team one by one with it with some prediction. Rotom-F also only does 46.46 - 55.21% with HP Ground, though if I can make Magmortar switch in twice it'll do the trick for me late-game.
Gallade: If Spiritomb is gone, Gallade can usually have an easy time cleaning up my team. Glaceon only does about 60% to SubBU Gallade and is smashed by faster ones, and my core is typically a sitting duck for it to just come in and smash face; however, if its an offensive variant Rotom-F does a good job revenge killing it if it's below half health.
Clefable: Poliwrath just doesn't hit hard enough to really threaten it, but luckily if it's a Wish variant that means that it can't heal itself when it uses Wish as it'll be phazed out. CM variants though are a whole other ballgame, and if we're talking a last-mon CM Clefable I'm usually in trouble if I can't Trick a Choice item onto it or get Glaceon in quickly enough.
Well, there you have it, the first hail RMT of the round. This team can definitely use some fixes, and I'm sure Glaceon isn't the best mon to be basing a team around at this point, especially without a spinner, but it's a fun team to use if you're into balance.
Can't wait to see what else people come up with!
After having posted this I've decided to edit the RMT with Silvershadow's suggestions, and they are working out phenomenally, and the team presented above is the current team. Here is what the past team looked like, and the comments that I made to go with it. This version is much more stallish and plays as such, but has a very big weakness to Qwilfish and Smeargle hazard-laying that is now mostly remedied with the team above.
Clefable @ Leftovers
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
- Seismic Toss
- Thunder Wave
Clefable was replaced by Rotom-F to give the team a more offensive feel and to make it not so weak to being swept by Sceptile and hazard laid by Qwilfish and Smeargle. However, Clefable ensured that my team would never have troubles with Magmortar and Nidoqueen, the former of which is now one of the few problems left with the team.
In place of Rotom-F, Clefable forms the rest of the mighty core of Uxie, Clefable, and Poliwrath. There is hilariously little that can actually break through this defensive core. Clefable was my Nidoqueen counter, and not much else lol. No I kid, but that is really her main function. What's really glorious about Clefable is that she actually heals from Leftovers in hail, and completely ignores entry hazards, a real godsend to this hazard-weak team. There's been a few games where it's come down to a Clefable Seismic Toss sweep because there's literally nothing on the opponent's team that can break through her special bulk. I decided to use a Softboiled/Protect combo for a couple reasons. 1, I hate Hi Jump Kick and Hitmonlee can go suck a dick. 2, Protect allows for some more Leftovers recovery, which can come in real handy vs. Nidoqueen should I mispredict. 3, This team doesn't really need Wish, and Clefable really needs instant recovery sometimes.
Threats to Old Team
Archeops: Archeops is a dick, and if it gets in freely something is usually going to die. Luckily, Uxie can paralyze it and Spiritomb can push it into Defeatist range if it switches into Stealth Rock, but otherwise this guy is just, ugh, mean. He was a non-issue when I had Steelix, but I needed a Fighting-type counter.
Gallade: If Spiritomb is gone, Gallade can usually have an easy time cleaning up my team. Glaceon only does about 60% to SubBU Gallade and is smashed by faster ones, and my core is typically a sitting duck for it to just come in and smash face.
Moltres: If I can't paralyze it, Moltres is a doozy. However, if I can keep Stealth Rock up, it's not as big of an issue, as LO + hail + SR will force it to Roost, giving me time to switch to Uxie or paralyze it with Clefable or finish it off with Spiritomb if it chooses to attack.
Clefable: Poliwrath just doesn't hit hard enough to really threaten it, but luckily if it's a Wish variant that means that it can't heal itself when it uses Wish as it'll be phazed out. CM variants though are a whole other ballgame, and if we're talking a last-mon CM Clefable I'm usually in trouble.
Qwilfish: This is by far the team's biggest weakness and where I typically lose the most momentum. Qwilfish can come in on literally 5/6 of my team and lay down at the very minimum of two layers of Spikes, which is really bad considering I don't have a spinner.
Last edited by Oglemi; Dec 9th, 2012 at 3:30:26 PM.
|Dec 8th, 2012, 4:12:03 AM||#2|
Join Date: Jun 2012
Hi oglemi this is a p cool hail team you have here. However, there are a few weaknesses.
Firstly, Smeargle. Smeargle will always get up at least two layers of hazards against your team, since it outspeeds you're entire team, and Ice Shard from Snover does a pitiful 28-34% to Smeargle. You also have issues with Qwilfish and Nidoqueen carrying Focus Blast.
To fix these issues, I recommend running a fast Lum Berry Uxie set. This set will limit Smeargle to one layer of hazards, and can easily switch in on Qwilfish and 1HKO with Psychic. Although Nidoqueen is able to 2HKO this set with Sludge Wave, Uxie weaken it hugely with Psychic so that Spiritomb can finish it off. This Uxie set still deals with fighting types, although not quite as well. Between tomb, Poliwrath and Uxie though, you have them pretty much covered. A faster and more powerful Uxie also helps out against Moltres, and can twave it in a pinch or bring it into KO range for tomb.
Now though Clefable seems very redundant, as Nidoqueen is easily dealt with by a faster Uxie. Moltres is still quite a large threat, as is Focus Blast+Leaf Storm Sceptile which picks off your team one by one, since it can break through your core with ease with a little bit of prediction. Therefore, a Choice Scarf Rotom-F fits incredibly well. Rotom can revenge kill multiple dangerous pokes, such as Sceptile and Moltres as well as sweep late game after Glaceon has broken through walls. Rotom-F also covers up your qwilfish weakness, and can easily dispatch it with a quick volt switch. It also revenge kills archeops nicely, and punishes them for switching out with Volt Switch, getting you the momentum back.
Here are the sets and changes:
Defensive Uxie spread--->Fast Lum Berry lead Uxie
Clefable--->Choice Scarf Rotom-F
GL and I hope I helped.
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SmashBrosBrawl: Landorus has the power to 2hko or 1hko almost anything bar its checks/counters.
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|Dec 8th, 2012, 4:22:43 AM||#3|
Join Date: Aug 2009
What am I licking?
Edit: Ninja'd on the Rotom-F
There is only one change that I would make that addresses the problem posed by Qwilfish. This change swapping Glaceon for Rotom-F. Rotom, although slightly less powerful that Glaceon is significantly faster, allowing it to out speed Nidoqueen without maximum investment. The electric stab would greatly benefit your team when confronting any water type, especially Qwilfish and Slowking.
There are several directions where you take Rotom-F on your team. The first role being the Spec Set (more or less taking over the entirety of Glaceon's role), SubChargeBeam/SubSplit or a bulky varient (I would advise against as your team has a strong defensive core as it stands). Personally the Specs set would gel best with your team. The Spec provides raw power and switch utility in Volt Switch.
Item: Choice Specs
252 SpA/180 Spe/72 Hp/4 SpDef (enough speed to out pace Timid Nidoqueen with Hidden Power Fire)
|Dec 8th, 2012, 2:18:55 PM||#4|
they call me... THE OGLEBOMB
Join Date: Oct 2009
Thanks for the Uxie suggestion Silvershadow, it's working out really well.
As for Rotom-F, I think it fills more holes than it leaves without Clefable, but I'm now pretty Magmortar/Typhlosion weak, mostly the former, and I'm still kinda Moltres weak.
Anybody have any suggestions on a way to try and remedy that ?
|Dec 8th, 2012, 6:25:56 PM||#5|
Little kids think life is so easy. That's why they go on and on about their dreams. That's why they never give up.
Join Date: Feb 2012
This is a really well made team! For that reason, the changes I make are more or less subjective.
As you mentioned Clefable doesn't do too much for you other than tank Nidoqueen's hits, and its been noted that Fire-types, notably Moltres gives you a lot of problems. Clefable's job is mainly to tank, paralysis, and provide chip damage. To help with your Moltres problem, I suggest Miltank. At first sight Miltank might not look like much, but under its udder it's pretty useful. Thick Fat combined with a high base Speed means that Miltank can tank Moltres's Fire Blast and retaliate with a Body Slam, or constantly heal back up with Milk Drink. In addition, because Clefable and Miltank's typing are the same the type synergy isn't mess up. There are, unfortunately, some aspects that are lost. Miltank is no Clefable so it still is gonna get hit by Hail damage, but this is neutralized thanks to Leftovers. Also, Miltank isn't as Specially bulky as Clefable, but the same job still gets done. Miltank also has a hard time dealing with Nidoqueen, which ironically, was Clefable's job, but Miltank has a much better time dealing with Moltres. You do have Uxie which can beat Nidoqueen, so this isn't too much of a problem.
The last two move slots are up to debate. Rock Slide is a valid option to take out Fire-type, because you outspeed the vast majority of them, and the flinch rate is mighty handy. Heal Bell is great utility to get rid of status especially the Sleep on Poliwrath so it can wall even better. Protect so the opposing Pokemon that more Hail damage. The EVs are to outspeed max Speed Moltres, and the rest go into Special Defense.
Miltank can also take care of Magmortar and Typhlosion, as lost as she avoids Focus Blast, which Spiritomb can handle, and the 70% accuracy can be helpful. Another note, that a Hurricane from Moltres can 2KO, but two straight hits is very unlikely, and you outspeed anyway.
Hope I helped ^.^
✓| Back in Action |VM for a GP Stamp | VM for a RU rate|
|Dec 9th, 2012, 3:29:02 PM||#6|
they call me... THE OGLEBOMB
Join Date: Oct 2009
OK, this team has been fully updated with Silvershadow's suggestions.
Thank you so much for the rate Silvershadow, the team is much more cohesive and a real force to be reckoned with right now. I encourage everybody to go out and try it and hail in general, there's a lot you can do with it! (Molk was running around with SubProtect Vanilluxe yesterday v_v )
Yonko, I'll be sure to try out your suggestion if I decide to go back to making the team more stallish again, right now I like the perfect balance feel to it. ^.^
|Dec 18th, 2012, 5:53:08 PM||#7|
better split before I catch folgorio-itis
Join Date: Apr 2009
Hey Oglemi, really cool team you've got here, as I've already told you a couple times! It's already really solid, but you've got a couple very minor issues that I think we could remedy pretty easily. Right now, Poliwrath is really striking me as a bit of a dead weight on your team. You list Wrath as your switch-in to Esca, Durant, and Crawdaunt, however, with Rotom-F on the team, and the more offensive nature of the team as a whole, you're able to consistently revenge those three mons with ease, and Poliwrath really just sits there detracting from the momentum of the team without doing much else. It also makes the team more vulnerable to Sceptile, that's already kind of problematic for you to handle, especially if it gets a sub up.
Because of this, I think that Qwilfish could be a really cool option for you over Poliwrath. It can still switch-in against most of the offensive threats that Poliwrath could switch-in against, and it does better against stuff like Sub Escavelier. Qwilfish also gives you an extra TWaver that your team is sorely missing with Clefable gone, which is really helpful, as Glaceon has a lot of trouble cleaning up versus stuff faster than itself. Spikes also really help you in whittling down stuff like Lickilicky and Thick Fat Hariyama so you can clean with Glaceon and Rotom. I'd suggest running a spread of 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe; Impish, with Waterfall/Spikes/ThunderWave/PoisonJab, which keeps your team's defensive backbone intact while giving you the additional paralysis support and a solid check to most offensive Water-types.
However, if you wanted to take the team on a slightly different spin, you could use Qwilfish with 252 HP/88 Def/176 Spe; Jolly and Waterfall/Taunt/ThunderWave/Spikes over Poliwrath, which lets you outspeed and Taunt Smeargle and most offensive Water-types before they can set up. With this change, you can go back to running a bulky Leftovers Uxie, which gives you a little extra survivability against some problematic offensive Fighting-types.
Cool team man, good luck with it!