Balanced Hackmons

[Imanalt]

Originally Posted by Fat Arcticblast

Trust me, Trick Room in BH is really restricting your options unless you go ahead and use base 90s. You're basically limited to Escavalier and Shuckle for common BH Pokemon, and good slowmons outside of them are things like Snorlax.

because everything runs max speed in bh, you can actually run even base 100s in tr, and youll stilll underspeed the majority of mons. i think trick room is actually a very interesting strategy and intend to build a tr team to try out when i have some time

[Uselesscrab]

Postscript (Jirachi) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Simple
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Bold Nature
- Skill Swap
- Toxic
- Quiver Dance
- Stored Power

Simple Stored Power Jirachi is really good. I use Jirachi for bulk and immunity to toxic. I also have Skill Swap for Shedinja and Contrary sweepers, and Toxic also works for Shedinja and Unaware things.

[Imanalt]

i feel like skill swap isnt particularly useful, as you can already beat shedinja with toxic (although i'd suggest switching to poison gas so that if it runs magic coat, you can win the ppstall). In place of skill swap, i'd suggest running magic coat, which makes you much less vulnerable to prankster spore etc, as well as supporting your team nicely in a lot of other cases.

[Level 51]

Originally Posted by Fat Arcticblast

It's an awesome strategy on Gengar - moreso than Giratina, really. Giratina can tank pretty much anything that isn't Outrage or Draco Meteor, so it has several opportunities to set up. Gengar, however, is frail as hell and is entirely dependent on scaring something out to set up. Skill Swap + Normalize not only screws over whatever switches in, but can also be used to mess up Shedinja.

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT THING

Sturdninja is now nerfed (edit: fixed): instead of not taking damage from attacks, it now takes 0 damage from attacks (i.e. it can be affected by secondary effects, such as Inferno's and Sacred Fire's burn)

/me pet Imanalt

[verbatim]

Shedinja taking zero damage is not a nerf in any way shape or form, it is a correction to a longstanding bug that PS has been dealing with for a while.

[windwolf777]

Originally Posted by Fat Level 51

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT THING

Sturdninja is now nerfed: instead of not taking damage from attacks, it now takes 0 damage from attacks (i.e. it can be affected by secondary effects, such as Inferno's and Sacred Fire's burn)

/me pet Imanalt

Why would Rhoda affect him ? I mean, why was it different before ?

[Uselesscrab]

Oh. Well. That means that No Guard Rayquaza can easily KO Shedinja with 100% accuracy Inferno.

[Champion Steve]

Still has to go through the Lum Berry, but yeah.
I have to wonder how this will affect the meta. Sheddy is less common than before because of all the team support it requires, but every team carries a counter too it because it can easily win games otherwise. Personally, I've rarely seen the moves that could KO Shedinja with their secondary, but maybe No Guard and Serene Grace will become more common since they can KO Shedinja and give you additional power / mad haxing skills.

[Uselesscrab]

What's the best pokemon to use No Guard? I use Rayquaza.

[Imanalt]

in general i'd want to use a bulky mon that can take advantage of spreading status with no guard moves, such as arceus, which can both successfully use both physical and special moves, and can take enough hits for it to be useful

[Aeongate]

Originally Posted by Fat Champion Steve

I have to wonder how this will affect the meta. Sheddy is less common than before because of all the team support it requires, but every team carries a counter too it because it can easily win games otherwise. Personally, I've rarely seen the moves that could KO Shedinja with their secondary, but maybe No Guard and Serene Grace will become more common since they can KO Shedinja and give you additional power / mad haxing skills.

Sheddinja is a terrible Pokemon for the tier, in my experience. Every game I play is won with hazards - they barely ever leave the field when you predict and spinblock correctly. Then again, I've faced some pretty nasty anti spin-blockers. I won't reveal the sets though, because I want to use them myself.

[Aeongate]

A testament to the power of hazards.

Missclicked on my Shuckle. Meant to go for Whirlwind and not Leech Seed.

EDIT: Really? No auto-merge double posts?

[The_Eevee_General]

Originally Posted by Fat Uselesscrab

What's the best pokemon to use No Guard? I use Rayquaza.

I like Mewtwo.
-Inferno
-Zap Cannon
-Dynamic Punch
-Blizzard/filler/status/whatever

Doesn't take super-effective damage like Rayquaza (Dragon is everywhere, Ice kinda common) except maybe Ghost (Gengar). Faster and better Special Attack (just a smidgen), which takes advantage of No Guard's special bias.

[GG Unit]

Zapdos seems like a good No Guard candidate as well. Not quite as bulky, but STAB on Zap Cannon packs a punch. Between Inferno, Focus Blast, and Blizzard, you'll be hitting most Electric resists super effectively.

[Arcticblast]

Oldish No Guard post:

Originally Posted by Fat Arcticblast

I've been using this set for a while, and call me crazy, but it works pretty damn well.

Deoxys-Speed @ Lum Berry
Trait: No Guard
Timid Nature
- Magic Coat
- Skill Swap
- Taunt
- Magma Storm

Similar to Skill Swap Regirock, except you essentially have two abilities if the opponent stays in against you since No Guard affects the entire field in Singles. Magic Guard and Taunt are pretty standard and useful, and Magma Storm not only roasts Flash Fire Steels (besides Escavalier...) but also allows another Pokemon to come in safely.

Since No Guard means in singles that attacks can't miss, Skill Swapping it with a move with questionable accuracy (we're talking 70 here so it works if the opponent switches out) is pretty nice.

[Imanalt]

Another note to people:
Instead of using prankster groudon, try out rhydon over it.
Rhydon has a good bit more bulk, which lets it beat a lot of things after stealing their boosts, and its rock typing allows it to beat counter belly drum slaking/regigigas which groudon cant do.

the set:
Rhydon @eviolite
prankster
-Heart swap
-baton pass
-nature power
-encore/recover/some other filler that helps your team

[PureQuestion]

Why are you using Rhydon and not Rhyperior? Every single stat is better.

[The_Eevee_General]

Originally Posted by Fat PureQuestion

Why are you using Rhydon and not Rhyperior? Every single stat is better.

Read: eviolite. But you're right, if you need a Lum Berry, Rhyperior does it better.

[Champion Steve]

I'm quite sure its because of Eviolite.

[PureQuestion]

Ahhh right. With all the other crazy shit running around (ie Ubers everywhere) you tend to forget Eviolite even exists...

[Fyermind]

The huge trend I am seeing is very long games. With so many bulky pokemon in the tier, and lots of recovery options and resistances/immunities, games can easily drag on over 70 turns.

There is also a massive threat for quick sweeps/hole breaking because of move sets like the following:

Lugia: @white herb
Trait: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / - 252 Atk / + 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
- Baton pass
- substitute
- shell smash
- Stored Power

Which can start firing off 260 base power stored power shots at +3 SpA form behind subs and pass off to a bouncer if it suspects whirlwind / heartswap.

There are several other powerful set-up sweepers with similarly narrow counters, so the metagame requires a large and versatile team to survive.

This leads to an increased emphasis on breaking small holes in teams. With a two pokemon defeated there is a good chance that a team now lacks a counter to one or more sweeping potentials or lacks the potential to sweep in return.

Perhaps due to a decrease in the use of magic bounce in the metagame (I'm not sure why, perhaps a surge in mold breaker deoxys-s) spore-phasing is a very effective technique I have noticed. After bouncers are eliminated spore-phasing also gathers massive momentum. For people who haven't been the recipients of this technique, it functions two basic principles:
1) sleeping counters reset on phasing
2) damage builds up over dragon tail/ entry hazards

Whirlwind circumvents substitute while dragontail avoids magic bounce, making the moves complimentary rather than reduntant. It should be noted that spamming dragontail on a mostly sleeping team makes it impossible to switch in a counter intentionally, reducing the chance of getting a counter out before losing a pokemon to as low as 1 - (4/5)^(#turns it takes to defeat one pokemon). These odds can be particularly severe because of how common dragon types are as well as the massive damage stealth rocks do to some pokemon.

Since building any momentum is a massive boon in the metagame, being able to sleep a few pokemon and scramble the opposing team can be enough to make that first break.

A few spore phasers I've seen are as follows:

Giratina @ lum berry/leftovers
Trait: prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / + 252 Def / - 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
- Spore
- Stealth rocks
- Dragon Tail
- Whirlwind

Deoxys-s @ lum berry
Trait: Mold breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / - 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / + 252 Spd
- spore
- stealth rock
- dragon tail / substitute / other utility move
- whirlwind

Lugia @ leftovers
Trait: Magic bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / + 252 Def / - 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
- dragon tail
- substitute
- spore
- utility move / recovery move / entry hazard / whirlwind

They all achieve similar effects in different ways such that counters to Giratina don't necessarily counter deoxys or lugia. I wouldn't suggest running all three on the same team, but having counters to all of them is extremely important.

Of interest here is that magic coat using sturdinja will eventually phase into hazards as it is now phased by dragon-tail. Whirlwind is favored over dragontail on deoxys because it's low attack makes it hard to break substitutes and win attrition damage, but mold breaker and the high pp of whirlwind allow it to set up a powerful midgame dominance by breaking magic bounce.

There are also bulk rock types who can probably execute this method effectively under sandstorm for additional passive damage, but I haven't used or seen them yet.

[Doolez]

Prankster spore is a great tactic, you just have to prepare to be accused of having "no skill" by people who are unaware of Magic Coat/Bounce.

On a slight change of subject, has anyone else noticed that when you use Skill Swap your 'new' ability doesn't show up when you hover over your pokemon anymore? I run a lead Skill Swap Regirock and after using Skill Swap it still displays my old ability...?

Sorry if this isn't the place to post this...

[Uselesscrab]

Yeah, it's really annoying. But it can also be good. For example, people don't know when I skill swap them normalize so they just attack me with different moves over and over.

EDIT: I just got swept by Prankster Assist Outrage Kyurem-B. How do I beat it?

[ForeverPerfectXI]

OH man people are still doing the Prankster outrage thing on Kyu-B? >_<

Such a good strategy. There are some dedicated strategies that can beat it but they can't do much else. You've got to get a way to get rid of their blissey (probably) that has the actual outrage.

[Arcticblast]

If you have a not-so-obvious Prankster user you can Taunt the Kyurem-B (I'm not sure if Assist can select Magic Coat or not). A really sturdy physical wall with recovery will usually come out on top against Outrage spam teams. Getting rid of Blissey won't help though, as Assist can select moves from a fainted Pokemon.