B&W Research Thread

[poccil]

UltiMario:

I tested this. In this case, the Will-O-Wisp would be redirected to its user rather than absorbed by Flash Fire, making Magic Coat take precedence over Flash Fire. However, if the original user of Will-O-Wisp has Flash Fire, it could absorb the attack as normal with that Ability: "Whenever a Fire-type attack by another Pokémon targets bearer..." since the redirected attack is an attack by Porygon2 against Rotom.

See my timing page, section "Targeting" for more:

If Magic Coat is in effect for the target, or the target has Magic Bounce,
when certain moves are used, that target uses that attack instead. (See attack
description for Magic Coat for details. If this effect happens, effects that trigger
whenever that target is targeted by an attack don't happen.)

[Marty D]

This isn't actually relevant to normal gameplay, but is very interesting mechanics-wise.

The other day, someone on Pokemon Showdown! was wondering if a Transformed Chansey holding Eviolite would still receive the Eviolite boosts. I figured it was worth a test since Transform no longer copies species, so here are the results:

Porygon2 has 147 Defense
Rampardos is Level 100 with 429 Attack, 140 Defense, 138 Sp. Atk, 126 Sp. Def

Rampardos using Pound on Eviolite Chansey Transformed into Porygon2 - 57, 65
Rampardos using Pound on Chansey Transformed into Porygon2 - 86, 97

Rampardos using Pound on Eviolite Chansey Transformed into Rampardos - 31, 34
Rampardos using Pound on Chansey Transformed into Rampardos - 48, 49

So yes, Eviolite continues working after Transform. Then I thought maybe Ditto could be the only Pokemon that has its species-dependent items lose their effect after Transforming.

Latios and Marowak are both Level 100; the Rampardos is the same as above.

Rampardos using Dragon Pulse on Soul Dew Latios Transformed into Rampardos - 52
Soul Dew Latios Transformed into Rampardos using Dragon Pulse on Rampardos - 117

Rampardos using Dragon Pulse on Latios Transformed into Rampardos - 73
Latios Transformed into Rampardos using Dragon Pulse on Rampardos - 82

Thick Club Marowak Transformed into Rampardos using Pound on Rampardos - 100
Rampardos using Pound on Thick Club Marowak Transformed into Rampardos - 49

It seems that Game Freak did something specific to Ditto and/or Metal Powder and Quick Powder, since they do not work when Ditto is Transformed. I don't have the time (or the will, really) to go through the other eight or so species-dependent items right now, but based on these results I'm pretty confident they will still apply as well. I'll probably come back to this eventually, though.

[V4Victini]

Originally Posted by Fat Marty D

This isn't actually relevant to normal gameplay, but is very interesting mechanics-wise.

The other day, someone on Pokemon Showdown! was wondering if a Transformed Chansey holding Eviolite would still receive the Eviolite boosts. I figured it was worth a test since Transform no longer copies species, so here are the results:

Eviolite

---

Porygon2 has 147 Defense
Rampardos is Level 100 with 429 Attack, 140 Defense, 138 Sp. Atk, 126 Sp. Def

Rampardos using Pound on Eviolite Chansey Transformed into Porygon2 - 57, 65
Rampardos using Pound on Chansey Transformed into Porygon2 - 86, 97

Rampardos using Pound on Eviolite Chansey Transformed into Rampardos - 31, 34
Rampardos using Pound on Chansey Transformed into Rampardos - 48, 49

So yes, Eviolite continues working after Transform. Then I thought maybe Ditto could be the only Pokemon that has its species-dependent items lose their effect after Transforming.

Soul Dew + Thick Club

---

Latios and Marowak are both Level 100; the Rampardos is the same as above.

Rampardos using Dragon Pulse on Soul Dew Latios Transformed into Rampardos - 52
Soul Dew Latios Transformed into Rampardos using Dragon Pulse on Rampardos - 117

Rampardos using Dragon Pulse on Latios Transformed into Rampardos - 73
Latios Transformed into Rampardos using Dragon Pulse on Rampardos - 82

Thick Club Marowak Transformed into Rampardos using Pound on Rampardos - 100
Rampardos using Pound on Thick Club Marowak Transformed into Rampardos - 49

It seems that Game Freak did something specific to Ditto and/or Metal Powder and Quick Powder, since they do not work when Ditto is Transformed. I don't have the time (or the will, really) to go through the other eight or so species-dependent items right now, but based on these results I'm pretty confident they will still apply as well. I'll probably come back to this eventually, though.

It also appears that Stick and, I would assume because Stick didn't work, Lucky Punch are lumped in with Ditto's items. There effect seems to go away when you Transform as well. (Freezing RNG Seed caused a crit as Farfetch'd yet not when Transformed into Timburr)
*see below*

-EDIT- Also tested Light Ball

Latios is Level 84;

Transformed Pikachu (Latios) using Round on Latios - 26 Without Light Ball
Transformed Pikachu (Latios) using Round on Latios - 51 With Light Ball (Obtained post transformation)

[poccil]

V4Victini:

Round is a poor choice to test the effect on, since its power is increased when it's used on consecutive turns.

[MB Espeon]

Er, Poccil, I think you're thinking of Echoed Voice. Round is the move that doubles damage if multiple party members on the same side use it on the same turn, while Echoed Voice is the does-more-damage-next-consecutive-turn move. So unless this is a double battle and both of them are using round, then it's no big deal either way.

...so did they both use Round or not? Seeing as if that varied it'd skew results, yeah.

[V4Victini]

Originally Posted by Fat MB Espeon

Er, Poccil, I think you're thinking of Echoed Voice. Round is the move that doubles damage if multiple party members on the same side use it on the same turn, while Echoed Voice is the does-more-damage-next-consecutive-turn move. So unless this is a double battle and both of them are using round, then it's no big deal either way.

...so did they both use Round or not? Seeing as if that varied it'd skew results, yeah.

yea Echoed Voice increases per turn. They didnt both use Round, Latios used Recover and Pikachu used Round.

-EDIT- Tested the rest of items (Lucky Punch, DeepSea*) and they all work. Went back to check Stick and it turns out since I used Aerial Ace it skipped the accuracy check which was causing the crit v_v. Set the seed back 1 and turns out Stick and Lucky Punch do keep their effects through Transformation. Oops >.> This time I used Return to test the crits on both Pokemon.

[alexwolf]

Does Skill Swap work through Substitute?

[Hozu]

Yes.

[Scarfwynaut]

On the note of skill swap, does the badly poison counter still add up if something has poison heal?

I ask this because I was playing with skill swap on Showdown, a porygon2 traced my Gliscor's poison heal, got poisoned, then I skill swapped the ability away, and the porygon 2 lost like 90% of its health due to poison in one turn (it was a ton of turns later). Just wondering if this is what happens in game.

[RBG*]

It worked that way in Gen IV, but I can't say anything about Gen V.

[poccil]

RBG*:

It also works that way in Black and White versions, as I've tested now: "If bearer is poisoned, bearer gains 1/8 of its maximum HP at the end of each turn instead of losing HP because of poison. " There are two things that happen when a Pokemon is badly poisoned: "At the end of each turn, if the Pokémon is badly poisoned, T increases by 1 (up to a maximum of 15) and the Pokémon loses 1/16 of its maximum HP, rounded down, times T." Poison Heal affects only the HP loss portion of this method.

[Hozu]

Heard about something interesting and did some further testing. Apparently you can get a Pokémon with a different language default name than the Pokémon's region by tripping the GTS name filter. My tests:

EN Froslass named "Froslass" on GTS in EN White - blocked
EN Froslass named "Froslass" on GTS in JP White and White 2 - allowed, renamed to default JP name
JP Poochyena named "ペニス" on GTS in EN White - allowed, renamed to default EN name
JP Poochyena named "ペニス" on GTS in JP White and White 2 - allowed, renamed to default JP name

In all cases the OT was set to "Shiro*"/"ホワイト．" if it was renamed. Presumably the OT will be renamed their counterpart from Black.

Note that in 5th gen I was unable to name a Pokémon "ペニス" (means penis), and if I tried adding characters after it the name wasn't censored. If there is a name that is allowed to be entered when giving it a nickname but is blocked by the GTS please post it.

[poccil]

There are several things I would like help on regarding battle mechanics. If you can help, go to this page, which I've just added today.

http://upokecenter.dreamhosters.com/...es/to-do-list/

Your comments will help improve the accuracy of my move, item, and Ability descriptions, and the rest of my in-depth guides.

(If it's okay, I will also create a separate thread on this.)

[Oglemi*]

Can Copycat select Circle Throw and Dragon Tail?

(there's been a lot of confusion lately, just to clear it up)

[MikeDecIsHere]

No, Copycat cannot copy Circle Throw or Dragon Tail

[david stone]

Is Struggle boosted by the held item Metronome?

[lati0s]

I didn't see this on the first page and no one answered me in the simple question simple answer thread.


What is the proper interaction when a pokemon holding a life orb attacks into a pokemon holding a red card. On showdown the life orb recoil did not occur. This was unexpected to me so I was wondering if the same thing happens in game.

[Wichu]

Something interesting happened to me when I was fighting the Champion in White 2:

Bidoof used Substitute!
The foe's Hydreigon used Struggle!
Bidoof's Substitute took the hit!

(I select Rollout)
Bidoof used Rollout!
The foe's Hydreigon used Struggle!
Bidoof's Substitute took the hit!

(Rollout continues)
Bidoof used Rollout!
The foe's Hydreigon fainted!
Champion sent out Druddigon!

(Rollout continues)
Bidoof used Rollout!
The foe's Druddigon fainted!
Champion sent out Aggron!

(Rollout continues)
Bidoof used Rollout!
The foe's Aggron used Autotomize!
Its Speed sharply rose!

(Rollout continues)
Bidoof used Rollout!
The foe's Aggron fainted!
Champion sent out Lapras!

(Rollout continues)
Bidoof used Rollout!
The foe's Lapras fainted!

(Rollout stops)

So, yeah. What's up with Rollout hitting six times rather than five? I'd used Defense Curl earlier to boost Rollout's power.

[Present]

Just wanted to know how this works ingame: When both pokemon on the battle field have magic bounce, and one uses toxic, the opponent's ability will bounce it back. Will toxic then fail afterwards, or will the user of toxic get poisoned, despite his own magic bounce. I am mainly asking because that happened on the simulator (toxic got bounced back and poisoned me), so I would first like to check before posting about it.

[poccil]

Present:

In that case, the user of Toxic will be poisoned. The user's Magic Bounce is ignored here because Toxic is already being bounced back. See my Ability list.

[Hozu]

In doubles or triples if you have a Storm Drain mon and another mon uses Water spout then Storm Drain does NOT affect Water Spout.

Surprised that behaviour wasn't already noted in this thread...

[poccil]

Hozu:

But only insofar as that Ability does not change the target of Water Spout, since Water Spout has the range "all opposing Pokémon" rather than "single Pokémon except user": "Water-type attacks ... by other Pokémon with a range of 'single Pokémon except user' that could target this Pokémon are directed to this Pokémon instead of to any other target of that attack." Moreover, even Water Spout is affected by Storm Drain when the attack's range does include the Pokémon with that Ability: "Whenever a Water-type attack ... by another Pokémon targets this Pokémon [etc.], this Pokémon's Special Attack is raised by 1 stage [etc.]."

[RBG*]

From the Gen IV research thread (that never got answered)

Originally Posted by Fat RBG

Don't know if this was known, but I was fighting a Wild Ratata and it got confused, and then when it hit it self with confusion, it said that the chillian berry weakened tail whip's damage.
Perhaps berrys can reduce the damage done from confusion damage if the inteneded attack was a type that a resist berry would lower? (I.e. Confused Shuca Heatran using Earth Power)

Just wondering if anyone knows of what specifically triggered it and if it is in Gen V or not.

[AJC]

Originally Posted by Fat Hozu

In doubles or triples if you have a Storm Drain mon and another mon uses Water spout then Storm Drain does NOT affect Water Spout.

Surprised that behaviour wasn't already noted in this thread...

abilities and moves that redirect a attack do not have the redirect function working if the attack strikes more than one mon.

they still give their immunity/absorb function if they do so.

Water spout is a all enemy targeted attack as such it ignores the redirect effect of storm drain.

[Joel]

Originally Posted by Fat AJC

abilities and moves that redirect a attack do not have the redirect function working if the attack strikes more than one mon.

they still give their immunity/absorb function if they do so.

Water spout is a all enemy targeted attack as such it ignores the redirect effect of storm drain.

Correct, but to also add, the SpAtk boost for the Pokemon with Storm Drain ability still triggers, and gets it's boost. All other Pokemon will be damaged normally.