Ask A Little Question, Get A Little Answer - Page 14

thebrownie · Nov 27th, 2012, 2:52:03 AM

Is there any reason why only allow Pokemon that can evolve at their first stage? There is a small subset of Pokemon that have low stats and cna't evolve. A notable one is ditto. Such a pokemon, while stronger than here in other tiers (with viable hp) would likely not be game breaking and add a dynamic to the meta while giving another viable check to missey

***Vader**** · Nov 27th, 2012, 3:32:50 AM

Nintendo's rules

Shouting · Nov 27th, 2012, 3:22:03 PM

What are some good answers to Misdreavus out there besides Stunky? It doesn't seem like much can handle Shadow Ball / Hidden Power Fighting / Thunderbolt

And also another question that I have is how common Icy Wind is on it? It's all over the analysis but in the gams I've played and watched (albeit, very few) none of them seemed to carry it.

Delver · Nov 27th, 2012, 3:36:00 PM

Even thunderbolt is pretty rare, tbh. Most misdreavus really enjoy having a substitute cause it lets them get past the number one way to kill her - Sucker punch. The priority move has a whopping 160 base after SE multipliers, and thats before STAB, hitting on her weaker physical defense side. Thusly Sucker-punch is really the best way (offensively) to deal with missy. Some good non-stunky Sucker Punchers are Houndour, Murkrow (who also retains neutrality and resistance to the two most common offensive moves (shadowball / HPfighting), and Pawniard. Pawniard and Houndour are both weak to fighting and ground though, so they maybe hard to just slap on a team. A missy of your own can deal with missy, if you're lucky on the speed tie - though thats a horrid answer. Aside from priority, Outspeeding missy is good. Strong scrafers such as Murkrow, Misdreavus, and even Porygon, can outspeed and either Outdamage or OHKO Missy depending on circumstances. Missy is such a threatening and versitile mon because it is so hard to deal with when it sets up. If you're dealing with a +2/ Sub'd Missy, you're in trouble. Keeping offensive pressure on missy when she shows up (though easier said than done) is another good way to deal with it - A move doesnt have to do SE damage to take out a Substitute.

prem · Nov 27th, 2012, 7:03:37 PM

icy wind used to be really good, but its not really used anymore so that should probably be updated. the best way to deal with missy is basically what delver said, though you can run things like ferroseed and lileep to deal with it also. basically anything with really high spdef. timburr works opretty well also actually lol

Chieliee · Nov 28th, 2012, 1:00:26 AM

lileep is actually not that solid of a check anymore since Taunt is becoming quite common on Missy, which means you'll end up getting yourself killed/severely weakened.

thebrownie · Nov 28th, 2012, 1:44:31 AM

porygon is one of the best counters to missy. Twave completely cripples it.

GC7 · Dec 13th, 2012, 4:25:42 PM

Why is Murkrow categorized as NU? does that mean he isn't usuable in LC anymore?

**Elevator Music** · Dec 13th, 2012, 4:42:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat GC7

Why is Murkrow categorized as NU? does that mean he isn't usuable in LC anymore?

Murkrow is listed as NU because it can't be listed as more than one, and the OU/UU/RU/NU listing takes priority over LC. Don't worry, you can still use Murkrow~

rcade216 · Feb 8th, 2013, 12:02:37 AM

I haven't found an answer on this, so I thought I would ask here.

With the EVs listed for certain Pokémon, like Mienfoo, 156 ATK / 196 DEF / 36 SP.DEF / 76 SPD with a total of 464, would trading that Pokémon to another game keep their EVs? I know before you needed to have the effort ribbon or EVs would be lost.

**Elevator Music** · Feb 8th, 2013, 12:18:06 AM

Actually, Pokemon never lose EVs when traded (or poketransfered), even if they don't have an Effort Ribbon, so you're safe :)

rcade216 · Feb 8th, 2013, 9:28:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Elevator Music

Actually, Pokemon never lose EVs when traded (or poketransfered), even if they don't have an Effort Ribbon, so you're safe :)

Really, I could have sworn I lost EVs when I traded between Pearl and Platinum without the effort ribbon.

Thank you for the info.

Zowayix · Feb 9th, 2013, 10:25:42 PM

Why is Vulpix outright banned from LC, and not just the ability Drought?

**Elevator Music** · Feb 9th, 2013, 10:54:55 PM

When we were deciding whether to ban Vulpix or just its ability, we decided to ban Vulpix as a whole, because we felt that banning just parts of a Pokemon is messy. The only time we've ever made an exception with this policy is when we banned Moody, because Moody is... an exception haha

EDIT: "We" being the tiering voters/policy makers/heads at the time

TPM · Feb 10th, 2013, 2:00:29 PM

I played Gen 4 LC quite a bit, and was very fond of the meta. I'm looking to get back into it, but don't really know what to expect out of Generation 5. What are the biggest changes between the two?

Nebuchadnezzar · Feb 10th, 2013, 2:23:44 PM

Eviolite is the single biggest change between Gen IV And V LC. Before most mons ran Oran Berry, but now the most popular item is Eviolite due to the invaluable defense boost.

Delver · Feb 10th, 2013, 8:39:36 PM

^To expand a little bit more, Gen4 LC was (from what i understand) very "Hyper Offense" focused. teams used very fast and powerful sweepers. Thanks to eviolite Gen 5 LC has slowed down in comparison with the majority of top teir teams being some from of Bulky-offense or Balance team.

Valafar123 · Feb 12th, 2013, 6:16:35 PM

Why is it that LC is often referred to as a very offensive metagame? I haven't had much experience with the other ones, so I'm curious. It seems to contradict my experience with pokes like Hippopotas, Bronzor and Ferroseed.

Thanks in advance for an answer.

Corkscrew · Feb 12th, 2013, 6:39:53 PM

LC has always been considered an offensive metagame because basically it was always very powerful. Because of the high powered moves being used by low levelled pokemon the damage output was always very high. If you compare it to ingame, pokemon at that level are usually using around 40BP moves. So in Gen IV it was basically impossible to run stall and matches generally lasted shorter than in other tiers.

In gen V LC isn't as offensive due to eviolite making pokemon like the ones you just mentioned very effective. With 1.5x defenses available to many pokemon the damage output is obviously a lot lower. To be honest, I wouldn't say it is overly offensive anymore and bulky teams are certainly a good playstyle. It's probably more offensive than other tiers but the difference isn't as large because in gen V offense is more common in other tiers as well.

Valafar123 · Feb 13th, 2013, 4:41:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Corkscrew

LC has always been considered an offensive metagame because basically it was always very powerful. Because of the high powered moves being used by low levelled pokemon the damage output was always very high. If you compare it to ingame, pokemon at that level are usually using around 40BP moves. So in Gen IV it was basically impossible to run stall and matches generally lasted shorter than in other tiers.

In gen V LC isn't as offensive due to eviolite making pokemon like the ones you just mentioned very effective. With 1.5x defenses available to many pokemon the damage output is obviously a lot lower. To be honest, I wouldn't say it is overly offensive anymore and bulky teams are certainly a good playstyle. It's probably more offensive than other tiers but the difference isn't as large because in gen V offense is more common in other tiers as well.

Ah, thanks for the answer.

Good_Luck! · Feb 16th, 2013, 10:32:34 AM

I tried to find a match with my Shellder team and the server flashed a message stating that Shellder couldn't use Rock Blast along ONE of the moves. Further Investigation proved to me that Shellder in fact can't use Rock Blast and Icicle Spear on the same set (Icicile Spear is bred by Father Cloyster, Rock Blast is bred by Father Kingler, Omastar or Kabutops and neither move is a Level Up move). Just for the sake of my curiosity, I tried playing with a No Guard Golett with Dynamic Punch and Shadow Punch. PS! flashed the same mesage and didn't allow me to find a match.

Has PS! enforced LC Legalities?

P.S. Shellder's strategy on Smogon can't be used now...

Hawkstar · Feb 16th, 2013, 10:38:03 AM

It's probably something to do with the new legality checker Zarel put into place. It was designed to stop Shadow Punch Golett and the like from existing, but it must have caught some false positives. It will most likely be fixed soon, though I can't speak for Zarel as to exactly when.

Corkscrew · Feb 16th, 2013, 10:54:39 AM

Yeah, basically Zarel broke LC. SubRoost Krow is now popping up as illegal even though it is not. I spoke to Mikel earlier who said he'd speak to someone.

Valafar123 · Feb 16th, 2013, 11:04:34 AM

I won't miss SubRoost Krow while it's gone. :/

iss · Feb 16th, 2013, 11:07:46 AM

Okay I'm looking into this.

Substitute / Roost / Brave Bird / Sucker Punch:

Level 37 Male Starly (Brave Bird) + Female Murkrow -> Male Murkrow (Brave Bird) + Female Murkrow (Brave Bird) -> Level to 55 (Sucker Punch) -> Brave Bird/Sucker Punch Level 1 Murkrow -> TM90 Substitute -> Roost Tutor

Shell Smash / Icicle Spear / Rock Blast / Razor Shell:

Level 46 Male Omanyte (Rock Blast) + Female Shellder -> Male Shellder (Rock Blast) + Female Shellder (Rock Blast) -> Level to 56 (Icicle Spear / Razor Shell / Shell Smash) -> Level 1 Shellder (Shell Smash / Icicle Spear / Rock Blast / Razor Shell)

Any combination of Egg moves + level-up moves is possible (provided the Egg move combination is legal) unless the Pokemon in question is Male/Female only or genderless.

Nov 27th, 2012, 3:32:50 AM	#327
*Vader caustic Super Moderator** Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 2,177 avatar by magistrum	Nintendo's rules __________________

Nov 27th, 2012, 7:03:37 PM	#330
prem failed abortion Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,214 <@Sarenji> anyway i learned knitting pretty fast <@Sarenji> because im a woman Mentor	icy wind used to be really good, but its not really used anymore so that should probably be updated. the best way to deal with missy is basically what delver said, though you can run things like ferroseed and lileep to deal with it also. basically anything with really high spdef. timburr works opretty well also actually lol __________________ +Yamata no Orochi: I don't get pussy

Nov 28th, 2012, 1:00:26 AM	#331
Chieliee Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,461	lileep is actually not that solid of a check anymore since Taunt is becoming quite common on Missy, which means you'll end up getting yourself killed/severely weakened. __________________ nyuu~ This is the world we live in And these are the hands we're given Use them and lets start trying To make it a place worth living in.

Feb 8th, 2013, 12:02:37 AM	#335
rcade216 Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 56 Pennsylvania	I haven't found an answer on this, so I thought I would ask here. With the EVs listed for certain Pokémon, like Mienfoo, 156 ATK / 196 DEF / 36 SP.DEF / 76 SPD with a total of 464, would trading that Pokémon to another game keep their EVs? I know before you needed to have the effort ribbon or EVs would be lost. __________________ BLACK 2 FC: 2022 8522 7713

Feb 8th, 2013, 12:18:06 AM	#336
Elevator Music there is actually no underscore in my name Moderator Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 5,462	Actually, Pokemon never lose EVs when traded (or poketransfered), even if they don't have an Effort Ribbon, so you're safe :) __________________

Nov 27th, 2012, 2:52:03 AM	#326
thebrownie Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 83	Is there any reason why only allow Pokemon that can evolve at their first stage? There is a small subset of Pokemon that have low stats and cna't evolve. A notable one is ditto. Such a pokemon, while stronger than here in other tiers (with viable hp) would likely not be game breaking and add a dynamic to the meta while giving another viable check to missey

Nov 27th, 2012, 3:22:03 PM	#328
Shouting Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 143 MA, USA	What are some good answers to Misdreavus out there besides Stunky? It doesn't seem like much can handle Shadow Ball / Hidden Power Fighting / Thunderbolt And also another question that I have is how common Icy Wind is on it? It's all over the analysis but in the gams I've played and watched (albeit, very few) none of them seemed to carry it.

Nov 27th, 2012, 3:36:00 PM	#329
Delver Sometimes I'm just like "Dang, I really want a dick in my bum" Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 145	Even thunderbolt is pretty rare, tbh. Most misdreavus really enjoy having a substitute cause it lets them get past the number one way to kill her - Sucker punch. The priority move has a whopping 160 base after SE multipliers, and thats before STAB, hitting on her weaker physical defense side. Thusly Sucker-punch is really the best way (offensively) to deal with missy. Some good non-stunky Sucker Punchers are Houndour, Murkrow (who also retains neutrality and resistance to the two most common offensive moves (shadowball / HPfighting), and Pawniard. Pawniard and Houndour are both weak to fighting and ground though, so they maybe hard to just slap on a team. A missy of your own can deal with missy, if you're lucky on the speed tie - though thats a horrid answer. Aside from priority, Outspeeding missy is good. Strong scrafers such as Murkrow, Misdreavus, and even Porygon, can outspeed and either Outdamage or OHKO Missy depending on circumstances. Missy is such a threatening and versitile mon because it is so hard to deal with when it sets up. If you're dealing with a +2/ Sub'd Missy, you're in trouble. Keeping offensive pressure on missy when she shows up (though easier said than done) is another good way to deal with it - A move doesnt have to do SE damage to take out a Substitute.

Nov 28th, 2012, 1:44:31 AM	#332
thebrownie Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 83	porygon is one of the best counters to missy. Twave completely cripples it.

Dec 13th, 2012, 4:25:42 PM	#333
GC7 Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 19 California	Why is Murkrow categorized as NU? does that mean he isn't usuable in LC anymore?

Feb 9th, 2013, 10:25:42 PM	#338
Zowayix Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 324 USA	Why is Vulpix outright banned from LC, and not just the ability Drought? __________________ Writing a haiku With seventeen syllables Is really diffi--

Feb 9th, 2013, 10:54:55 PM	#339
Elevator Music there is actually no underscore in my name Moderator Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 5,462	When we were deciding whether to ban Vulpix or just its ability, we decided to ban Vulpix as a whole, because we felt that banning just parts of a Pokemon is messy. The only time we've ever made an exception with this policy is when we banned Moody, because Moody is... an exception haha EDIT: "We" being the tiering voters/policy makers/heads at the time __________________

Feb 10th, 2013, 2:00:29 PM	#340
TPM Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 472 Soemwhere north of the states	I played Gen 4 LC quite a bit, and was very fond of the meta. I'm looking to get back into it, but don't really know what to expect out of Generation 5. What are the biggest changes between the two? __________________ This Sunkern is just one of Macle's amazing pieces of art. http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/391/modabuse2.png hrm...

Feb 10th, 2013, 2:23:44 PM	#341
Nebuchadnezzar Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 49	Eviolite is the single biggest change between Gen IV And V LC. Before most mons ran Oran Berry, but now the most popular item is Eviolite due to the invaluable defense boost.

Feb 10th, 2013, 8:39:36 PM	#342
Delver Sometimes I'm just like "Dang, I really want a dick in my bum" Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 145	^To expand a little bit more, Gen4 LC was (from what i understand) very "Hyper Offense" focused. teams used very fast and powerful sweepers. Thanks to eviolite Gen 5 LC has slowed down in comparison with the majority of top teir teams being some from of Bulky-offense or Balance team.

Feb 12th, 2013, 6:16:35 PM	#343
Valafar123 Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 24 The UK	Why is it that LC is often referred to as a very offensive metagame? I haven't had much experience with the other ones, so I'm curious. It seems to contradict my experience with pokes like Hippopotas, Bronzor and Ferroseed. Thanks in advance for an answer.

Feb 12th, 2013, 6:39:53 PM	#344
Corkscrew Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 641 England	LC has always been considered an offensive metagame because basically it was always very powerful. Because of the high powered moves being used by low levelled pokemon the damage output was always very high. If you compare it to ingame, pokemon at that level are usually using around 40BP moves. So in Gen IV it was basically impossible to run stall and matches generally lasted shorter than in other tiers. In gen V LC isn't as offensive due to eviolite making pokemon like the ones you just mentioned very effective. With 1.5x defenses available to many pokemon the damage output is obviously a lot lower. To be honest, I wouldn't say it is overly offensive anymore and bulky teams are certainly a good playstyle. It's probably more offensive than other tiers but the difference isn't as large because in gen V offense is more common in other tiers as well. __________________ Avatar by Magistrum

Feb 16th, 2013, 10:32:34 AM	#346
Good_Luck! Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 177 Mexico	I tried to find a match with my Shellder team and the server flashed a message stating that Shellder couldn't use Rock Blast along ONE of the moves. Further Investigation proved to me that Shellder in fact can't use Rock Blast and Icicle Spear on the same set (Icicile Spear is bred by Father Cloyster, Rock Blast is bred by Father Kingler, Omastar or Kabutops and neither move is a Level Up move). Just for the sake of my curiosity, I tried playing with a No Guard Golett with Dynamic Punch and Shadow Punch. PS! flashed the same mesage and didn't allow me to find a match. Has PS! enforced LC Legalities? P.S. Shellder's strategy on Smogon can't be used now...

Feb 16th, 2013, 10:38:03 AM	#347
Hawkstar Are you hanging by a thread or swinging from the rope? Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 630 Western Pennsylvania	It's probably something to do with the new legality checker Zarel put into place. It was designed to stop Shadow Punch Golett and the like from existing, but it must have caught some false positives. It will most likely be fixed soon, though I can't speak for Zarel as to exactly when. __________________ Art thread! [22:11] Helias: FUCK YOU HAWKSTAR THAT'S NOT MY NAME

Feb 16th, 2013, 10:54:39 AM	#348
Corkscrew Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 641 England	Yeah, basically Zarel broke LC. SubRoost Krow is now popping up as illegal even though it is not. I spoke to Mikel earlier who said he'd speak to someone. __________________ Avatar by Magistrum

Feb 16th, 2013, 11:04:34 AM	#349
Valafar123 Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 24 The UK	I won't miss SubRoost Krow while it's gone. :/

Feb 16th, 2013, 11:07:46 AM	#350
iss perpetual semifinalist Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,979 sirndpt <3	Okay I'm looking into this. Substitute / Roost / Brave Bird / Sucker Punch: Level 37 Male Starly (Brave Bird) + Female Murkrow -> Male Murkrow (Brave Bird) + Female Murkrow (Brave Bird) -> Level to 55 (Sucker Punch) -> Brave Bird/Sucker Punch Level 1 Murkrow -> TM90 Substitute -> Roost Tutor Shell Smash / Icicle Spear / Rock Blast / Razor Shell: Level 46 Male Omanyte (Rock Blast) + Female Shellder -> Male Shellder (Rock Blast) + Female Shellder (Rock Blast) -> Level to 56 (Icicle Spear / Razor Shell / Shell Smash) -> Level 1 Shellder (Shell Smash / Icicle Spear / Rock Blast / Razor Shell) Any combination of Egg moves + level-up moves is possible (provided the Egg move combination is legal) unless the Pokemon in question is Male/Female only or genderless. __________________ "Mienfoo is a shitty Pokemon." - blarajan ~CHINCHOUS~