|
|||||||
 |
|
|
Thread Tools |
Dec 14th, 2012, 1:58:55 AM
|
#1 |
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 25
On the other side
|
The Real Genesect
THE REAL GENESECT   Introduction  Hey guys, this is my third (i guess) RMT. For a about as long as I can remember I have been a Kabutops believer. Just look at him. His altered form dominated OU and was banished to ubers. Kabutops in itself is a threatening sweeper under the rain and is a great late game rain team counter. This is why I wanted a team built around it even though Kingdra is all rage this generation. After playing with this team for a while I realized it was doing pretty well but it had much more potential that I myself could not bring into it so I am here now asking you fellow smogonites to help me out. So here we go. But first there’s a background for the whole Kabutops is Genesect thing (hence the name so read it if u’d like or go ahead and check the team out. Story Time
...
Team At A Glance       In Depth Look       ------------------------------   BreDoom (Breloom) (M) @ Focus Sash  Trait: Technician EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Spore - Swords Dance - Bullet Seed - Mach Punch Even though the gen 5 metagame doesn’t really allow the use of a so called “dedicated lead” I almost always lead with my Sashloom. This works as a great anti-lead against OU’s most common leads (especially rain teams which lead with politoed) bar deoxys-d. Sashloom is a great early game sweeper and provides the team with the 100% accurate spore as well as priority Mach Punch boosted by STAB and Technician while Bullet Seed is a powerful stab useful against rain mons and breaking substitutes as well. It can also be used late game when starmie has hazards off the field. ------------------------------   Genesect (Kabutops) (M) @ Life Orb  Trait: Swift Swim EVs: 252 Atk / 36 Def / 220 Spd Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Waterfall - Stone Edge - Low Kick - Rain Dance The pokemon this team is built around. Kabutops was and is the most threatening physical sweeper under the rain. Like its altered form genesect once rain is up it can effectively pull off a late game sweep. Because of Aldaron’s proposal I am forced to run rain dance over swords dance which slightly cuts down Kabutops’ power but rain dance makes it a powerful presence as well. Things become a whole lot easier when rain is naturally brought by opposing teams making it a very effective late game sweeper with its STAB rain boosted waterfall and low kick to decimate Ferrothorn after prior damage. Stone edge hits dragons like Latios who resist its other coverage moves. Rain Dance is to manually get rain up so that kabutops outspeeds most of the metagame. ------------------------------   Power (Landorus) (M) @ Life Orb Trait: Sheer Force EVs: 68 HP / 252 SAtk / 188 Spd Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Earth Power - Focus Blast - Hidden Power [ice] - Rock Polish Sheer Force Life Orb Landorus is my main special attacker of the team and one of the most powerful special sweepers in OU. Rock Polish boosts its base 101 speed (decent but not enough for the current OU metagame) to high levels making it one of the fastest boosted pokemons in OU. Earth Power is a powerful STAB backed by sheer force boost and the life orb boost and OHKO almost anything that doesn’t resist it. Focus Blast is a coverage move also boosted by both sheer force and life orb and even 2HKO’s Skarmory. Hidden Power Ice is another coverage move to hit dragons and other pokemon 4 times weak to ice such as gliscor. Landorus serves as a late game sweeper and a powerful wallbreaker. -----------------------------   Big Threat (Salamence) (M) @ Lum Berry  Trait: Moxie EVs: 4 SAtk / 252 Atk / 252 Spd Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef) - Dragon Dance - Fire Blast - Earthquake - Outrage DD MoxieMence is a big yet underrated threat in today’s metagame. The last thing you want is for it to set up a dragon dance mid game as it can single handedly wreck entire teams after a moxie boost and foddering a pokemon to it only means another free attack boost in the form of moxie. DD allows me to increase attack and outspeed a number of faster pokemon such as the Lati Twins. Fire Blast hits Ferrothorn for super effective damage. Earthquake provides great synergy with outrage as Salamence can effective earthquake kill those defensive steel types that resist its outrage. Salamence is a powerful sweeper midgame and a decent wallbreaker which is not easily countered albeit ice shard carriers bring an end to its sweep. -----------------------------    StarMe (Starmie) @ Damp Rock  Trait: Natural Cure EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Surf - Rain Dance - Psyshock - Rapid Spin Since I carry Salamence and Sashloom on my team it was painfully obvious that I needed a spinner and Starmie was the chosen spinner of my choice. Starmie provides a number of jobs for this team. Firstly it spins hazards away for my team making Salamence’s job a whole lot easier and sashloom’s if I decide to use it late game. Secondly it gets rain up for Kabutops to sweep late game and turn it into the powerful predator that it is. Thirdly it is my second special sweeper for the team with rain boosted Surfs. Surf and Psyshock are powerful STABS under rain while Rapid Spin is to get hazards off the field and Rain Dance is for Kabutops to get its job done and to increase the power of Surf. -----------------------------    Wishmaker (Jirachi) @ Choice Scarf  Trait: Serene Grace EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk) - Stealth Rock - Ice Punch - U-turn - Iron Head According to me every half decent team needs a stealth rocker and scarfer. Scarfrachi is the preferred stealth rocker of my team as well as the scarfer. Its unique typing shared only with a few allows it a great number of resistances and its base 100 stats are decent for its job. Jirachi gives the team a number of resistances. Stealth Rock is a must have entry hazard and helps me fake a standard rachi set. Ice Punch hits dragons such as Garchomp who think they can set up on Rachi. Iron Head is a powerful STAB with a decent flinch chance further boosted by serene grace allowing Jirachi to counter its own threats while U-turn is for scouting purposes. Importable (keep the nicks if you’d like to do so. Otherwise…) Code:
(Breloom) (M) @ Focus Sash Trait: Technician EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Spore - Swords Dance - Bullet Seed - Mach Punch (Kabutops) (M) @ Life Orb Trait: Swift Swim EVs: 252 Atk / 36 Def / 220 Spd Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Waterfall - Stone Edge - Low Kick - Rain Dance (Landorus) (M) @ Life Orb Trait: Sheer Force EVs: 68 HP / 252 SAtk / 188 Spd Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Earth Power - Focus Blast - Hidden Power [ice] - Rock Polish (Salamence) (M) @ Lum Berry Trait: Moxie EVs: 4 SAtk / 252 Atk / 252 Spd Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef) - Dragon Dance - Fire Blast - Earthquake - Outrage (Starmie) @ Damp Rock Trait: Natural Cure EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Surf - Rain Dance - Psyshock - Rapid Spin (Jirachi) @ Choice Scarf Trait: Serene Grace EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk) - Stealth Rock - Ice Punch - U-turn - Iron Head Conclusion  . Final Glance Last edited by Dwayne; Dec 14th, 2012 at 11:19:31 PM. |
|
|
|
Dec 14th, 2012, 6:38:43 AM
|
#2 |
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 465
I tell you I'm a Tensai
|
Hi.
("Hey guys, this is my first RMT" ???) So, I see that you somehow revamped the "Art of Peer Pressure" team, but Kabutops can't really be the replacement of Genesect so easily. All the shifts you did changed the team and opened it to a lot of other weaknesses. The weaknesses : - First Mamoswine crushes your team really, really, really hard to say the least. It kill Breloom throught Sash with Icycle Spear and beat the Mach Punch with Ice Shard, it kills Kabutops if Rain isn't up with Earthquake, it kills Landorus and Mence no matter your boosts or what with Ice Shard, it kills Jirachi with Earthquake if you're locked in a move or don't Flinch and Starmie can't switch on him. - Moreover, the use of Damp Rock Starmie is strange, and nothing on your team can take a HPump or any water attack. In fact I HIGHLY doubt that you can beat a decent Rain team because nothing can switch on their attacks. You use Sash loom, okay but the point of this set was killing Politoed then switching the weather with Hail iirc, here you kill Politoed and .. switch the weather to Rain ? - I don't see what could justify the use of two Rain Dancers, it is really not like you're building a team around a chain of sweeping Swift Swimmers like in Ru for instance. - Deoxys-D HO or DragNmag teams will beat you, usually because they pack Mamoswine or Weavile and because your team is too weak against them. Breloom is not a good lead against them usually because they can either Taunt you, or Magic Coat the Spore, or Kill you with something like Endeavor Mamoswine. Well, here are my changes : Change Starmie to Rotom-W It is pretty needed in my opinion, just to take better Water moves, and because you don't need two spinners in a single team. Rotom-W is also usually a full stop to Mamoswine so you fix a big weakness here. You Starmie could not hit hard the Bulky Water (like the rest of the team bar Breloom), so Rotom-W will just be a better partner. Change Sash Breloom for a Sash Terrakion It's not a big change, just a way to adapt your "lead" to the changes I do, I don't consider it as a real shift. Now you're faster than Deoxys-D and you put SR. Scarf Jirachi with SR is a little hard to manage, especially when it's your only steel, and when you share so many weaknsses between your sweepers. Terrakion can Taunt almost any SR setter or start a sweep and break walls after a SD. Now you better have a new resistance to Grass and a Scarfer because I want to put Rain Dance on Jirachi and build a more supportive set (he'll just do it better than Starmie). I would change Landorus-T for Latios. Seems like you get another Dragon, but it doesn't make you weak that much to Ice moves (Weavile is now a pretty big threat but Jirachi and Rotom-W can take him). Latios can take an Ice Shard from Mamoswine anyway. Now, I would change a little Jirachi's set for a supportive set, and change Rain Dance on Kabutops for Rapid Spin (you won't need it so much because Terrakion usually prevent SR but it will still be more useful than Rain Dance on something frail like Kabutops, who is by the way the only one needing Rain, so using Rain Dance and dieing isn't really ideal). The SETS :
...
I hope I helped! TL;DR
...
__________________
We must not let daylight in upon the magic.
VM me for a rate in BW2 OU, my advices are free for now *Check my last RMT -Friend's Prophecy- ! And give me your opinion ! http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3482863 |
|
|
|
|
Dec 14th, 2012, 6:52:27 AM
|
#3 |
|
a
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,967
mercinary
|
Hey, this is a really cool offensive team, I dig the originality! Having experienced the Swift Swim + Drizzle suspect test I can definitely attest to the fact of how strong Kabutops is in the Rain.
Moveset fixes and Ferrothorn Ok, so on to the rate. A couple of things, I was testing your team out a bit and noticed that Breloom misses a lot of KOs it normally gets with Life Orb. Yes, the recoil is annoying but the extra power is vital for a sweep. I found myself using Jirachi as a lead most of the time, since he obviously can get Rocks up and against Deo-D, I was using Mence to just straight up DD and take out half of the opponents team. Next, I would suggest using Swords Dance on Kabutops over Low Kick. The only pokemon you would use Low Kick on is Ferrothorn and it barely gets 2hkod by it, making it not so great of an option. +2 Waterfall and Stone Edge do nearly as much damage, so if you can get Ferro in the sweet spot of 40-45% it won't make a difference. Here are some calcs to show you what I mean:
...
So as you can see, you don't lose too much power against Ferrothorn, and you get immensely more powerful against everything else. I love any double dance set because it gives you the option to use Rain Dance against fast teams that are offensively based making it easy to clean and you can now punch holes through stall as well with the added power that Swords Dance brings. Ice Weakness I noticed you have a pretty big weakness to Mamoswine, and offensive Ice types in general. Granted, you do have 3 resistances to Ice but none of them can switch in as they all get OHKOd by Life Orb Earthquake. Breloom can't even Mach Punch because Mamo will get the Ice Shard off first. If you wanted to replace a pokemon to get rid of this weakness, my suggestion would be to replace Landorus. Mence is pretty important for breaking through walls, Kabutops is your whole reason for this team so I can't ask you to replace him and Breloom is important for priority and Sleep. That makes Landorus the obvious choice. I was thinking of Rotom-W since it can stand its ground against Mamoswine, Weavile and keep the momentum with Volt Switch. Here's the set I would suggest: Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers Trait: Levitate EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef Modest Nature - Hydro Pump - Volt Switch - Pain Split - Hidden Power [Fire] / Will-o-Wisp Ok now bear with me here. The biggest problem for Kabutops to sweep is Ferrothorn, who will almost always come in on Rotom-W without fear. This set lures it in and does massive damage: 252+ SpA Rotom-W Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 224-264 (63.63 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO That basically eliminates Kabutops' biggest counter since he can now KO Ferro with ease. If you feel that's too weird then Will-o-Wisp is a fine move too. I chose maximum Special Attack since this is still an offensive team. Edit: I just wanted to add what Remedy said about Ferro in the rain, I completely agree. I still think HP Fire is worth a shot, if it doesn't work out, then WoW and Thunderwave are great options too. Well, I hoped this will help you out, best of luck with your team! Last edited by ala; Dec 14th, 2012 at 10:16:52 AM. |
|
|
|
|
Dec 14th, 2012, 8:02:10 AM
|
#4 |
|
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 465
I tell you I'm a Tensai
|
I can only agree with what you said, since I came to similar conclusions, however don't you think that having Starmie and Kabutops and Rotom-W leads to a mighty weakness to Electric and Grass moves ?
I'm really doubting that you can have both Starmie and Rotom-W in this team. And if you get rid of Landorus like this, there is not a single resistance to Eletric moves. Thus, you can be swept cleanly by an Agility Thundurus-T spamming Thunder for instance. Jirachi's Ice Punch can't even kill him after SR damages, so it would be needed to sacrifice Jirachi and end the job with Mach Punch from Breloom, which is unlikely to happen since Breloom is the "lead". For Ferrothorn, he'll probably be under Rain, so Rotom-W will be killed by Power Whip after lowering him to barely 70% with the odd HP Fire. I'd say, that he should rely on the combo Mence then Kabutops to break through Ferrothorn since Fire Blast is a sure 2HKO even under Rain. And Low Kick does a nice chunk to Ferrothorn, like 60%. If he give up a move, to me it's Rain Dance. I see that you tried to not do as much changes as me, but I don't think there are many possibilities.
__________________
We must not let daylight in upon the magic.
VM me for a rate in BW2 OU, my advices are free for now *Check my last RMT -Friend's Prophecy- ! And give me your opinion ! http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3482863 |
|
|
|
|
Dec 14th, 2012, 8:34:49 AM
|
#5 | |
|
a
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,967
mercinary
|
Quote:
Onto Hidden Power Fire, I suggested it because it is Rotom-Ws best offensive option against Ferro, but I also suggested Will-o-Wisp if HP Fire just isn't cutting it. I'd rather do 70% to Kabutop's biggest counter then waste a move slot on his set just for Ferro. I tried changing the team as little as possible because I want to keep it in Dwayne's perspective. When you suggest to change half of the team, that's a complete overhaul, Dwayne may as well just make a new team if he's going to make all of those changes. I posted accepting the fact that the team isn't going to be perfect, no team is, but I feel that my changes can help him out and I stand by them. If you want to take this to PM, feel free, I don't want to spam Dwayne's thread with responses. |
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 14th, 2012, 7:21:49 PM
|
#6 |
|
A
 
|
Hey man nice team and im glad you like my rmt format. Also Kabutops is awesome so props on using it.
First off i am agreeing with alas suggestion of Hidden Power [Fire] Rotom-W. The reason being thay Mamoswine and any Ice Sharding Ice-type is quite threatening for your team. Ice Shard can bypass Salamence and Landorus's speed and ohko them if used by Abomasnow, Weavile or Mamoswine. Mamoswine and Abomasnow can also hit Kabutops and Jirachi hard with Earthqauke or in Abomasnows case hit Kabutops and Starmie with Wood Hammer. Ferrothorn is also a roadblock to a Kabutops sweep so alas Rotom-W suggestion helps with that. However i still think your team can be patched up. Latios and Latias look like big threats to your team being able to abuse powerful Draco Meteors and wear down you recovery-lacking Jirachi to the point where all they have to do to beat your team is spam Draco Meteor. I also cant understand why you would run Stealth Rock on a Choice Scarf user because you give your opponent a free turn after you have set it up and you miss out on a coverage move. To help you with the Lati-Twins i suggest changing your Jirachi to a Specially Defensive Jirachi> Choice Scarf Jirachi This Jirachi can use Stealth Rock much more reliably with the freedom to switch moves. With a form of reliable recovery in Wish and max Hp and Sp Def Jirachi can wall threatening special attackers like the Lati twins and also lets you wall Tornadus-T who is a threat should you not go with Rotom-W. Wish is also a great form of support for keeping Kabutops longer. Jirachi can also wear down opponents with the para flinch combination softening them up for a Kabutops or Salamence sweep. With this change you have better ensurance against the lati twins and you have a good user of Stealth Rock and great support for your offensive pokemon. However now your team lacks a Choice Scarf user. Fortunatly for you Salamence makes a great Choice Scarf user and with Moxie it can still keep up its sweeping potential so Choice Scarf Salamence>Dragon Dance Salamence is a good change. This Salamence set can also use Dragon Claw to revenge kill threats so you can switch out freely when a Steel-type comes in instead of being locked into Outrage. Good luck with the team i hope i helped! Sets
...
Tl;dr
...
~Superpowerdude
__________________
Join #dogbirds on irc!!!
Last edited by Superpowerdude; Dec 14th, 2012 at 7:23:23 PM. Reason: . |
|
|
|
|
Dec 14th, 2012, 7:49:51 PM
|
#7 |
|
The greatest oak was once a little nut that held its ground
    
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,030
Came by a fork in the road, and went straight
|
Hey!
First of all, I got your VM, so I'm here to give you a rate. Second, Kabutops just reminded me of this great idea I saw on the ladder which I wanted to try myself. Kabutops could be one of the most anti-metagame Pokemon out there, I think. I'd change your set to Waterfall / Stone Edge / Stealth Rock / Rapid Spin with a Focus Sash. I can't think of any team archetype that stops Kabutops from getting the job done. Deoxys-D offense? Can't get hazards against Kabutops lead. Common Terrakion lead? Waterfall + Rapid Spin. Rain team? Use Stealth Rock, Rapid Spin, or just sweep twice with Focus Sash. Sand teams? Most of the common Sand teams can't stop SR from getting up, and they take a lot from Waterfall. Ok enough with that, I'm going to focus on that set for your team. I think it is the best one. I'll try to work within the scope of your team, but I'm probably going to make my own Kabutops team sometime. Sand and no weather could easily work great. So first suggestion for you: Change Kabutops to the one I mentioned earlier. Same EVs pretty much. You can afford to experiment with the Rapid Spin slot if you like. Aqua Jet, Rain Dance, and Low Kick could all be solid choices. Rapid Spin is pretty cool, but if you have Starmie, it's not so much of a necessity. Second, I really like your Landorus + Salamence sweeping core. Definitely change Landorus to 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe / 4 Def with a Timid nature. I will never recommend the the slow set because it it garbage. Contrary to popular belief, Landorus spends most of its time sweeping without a boost, and when it does get the boost, it KOes just about everything anyway. I've played with Modest Landorus, and I always find myself wishing I had Timid. Next, to me, Breloom looks like the weak link. Others have noticed that you have nothing to switch into Water attacks which is true. My suggestion for your Breloom slot is Rotom-w. I'd run the specially defensive set: 248 HP / 28 SpAtk / 232 Sp Def with a Calm nature. Breloom will basically be playing a pivot roll on your team. You want it to switch into Rain teams. One of the biggest problems for GTG and CTC's team was that Tornadus-t was tough to switch into. Rotom-w will do a great job alleviating that issue. Pain Split / Hydro Pump / Volt Switch are givens, and I'd like to advocate Will-o-Wisp. It will really support your team against Ferrothorn and open Salamence + Kabutops up for sweep opportunities. Rotom-w will also play a big role in countering Scizor and Mamoswine. Scizor and Mamoswine are two of the biggest threats to your Salamence + Landorus sweeping duo, so having a way to stop them will be invaluable. Those are my two big suggestions. Now I have some small fixes for you. On Starmie, I think you should run Thunder instead of Psyshock. Psyshock is kind of a weak move used mostly for coverage on Defensive Rapid Spin Starmie. Your Starmie is offensive and can really utilize Thunder. You'll be able to threat Jellicent, Tentacruel, other Starmie, and Water Pokemon in general. Thunder is also a very good coverage move. On Breloom, since I suggested SR Kabutops, you can use a different move. I'd probably recommend Trick, but there are a lot of different moves you can use. Trick will help you weaken problem Pokemon. For example, if Gastrodon is giving you grief, you can sacrifice Jirachi to lock it into Scald/Earthquake, and then set up. Zen Headbutt is a decent alternative. Beats Breloom and Toxicroak. Thunderpunch is another option, but in fairness it's kind of weak. You already have Rotom-w and Starmie to take on Rain Pokemon. I'm gonna give your team a shot, and I'll probably report back to you with what I find. Good work. Good luck!
__________________
  |
|
|
|
«
Previous Thread
|
Next Thread
»
| Thread Tools | |
|
|
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 5:27:21 PM.
