Counter that Pokemon - Mk III [Team 2 won!]

[Cherub Agent]

Melee Mewtwo

Abomasnow crushes the opposing team, and who cares if hail doesnt strip Kyurem of its Lefties, we have Heatran for that. People need to stop assuming that Abomasnow's only use is on a dedicated hail team, it's a fine and perfectly viable pokemon in its own right. Celebi has like no offensive presence, which i find depressing

[TyranitarAbuser]

Ganj4IF's Celebi

Sorry, have been busy for the past few days and will be busy until next year. I'll try to post when I can.

[Shurtugal]

Melee Mewtwo :3

[Remedy]

Ganj4lf

Abomasnow is horribly weak, and I'm not even sure it would be RU without Hail. His stats are low and is typing just horrible for a substitute set.

[Enguarde]

ganj4lF

[Pocket]

ganj4lf

Abomasnow totally fucks over our Sub Heatran, our hard stop counter to Kyurem-B; no thanks.

[gengarsnemisis]

ganj4lf

[BROStime]

Melee Mewtwo

[TerrickTerran]

ganj4lF

[ssbbm]

ganj4lf

[blitzlefan]

ganj4lf

[Anikrahman1995]

Melee Mewtwo

[NixHex]

Aaaand the votes are in, and ganj4lF's Celebi has taken the gold. It is now time to move onto Team 2's fourth Pokemon. Again, you have 3 days to discuss and propose sets. Let's get moving!

[DarkBlazeR]

Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 176 HP / 252 Atk / 80 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Superpower

I know weather based 'mons are generally discouraged in these type of projects, but Tyranitar synergizes excellently with the current Team 2 lineup, and sand isn't particularly restrictive on team building anyway. Currently, I can't help but feel that Team 2 is lacking that extra "oomph". It's solid defensively and is no slouch offensively, but at the moment doesn't really have the strength needed to overwhelm the opposition. CB Tyranitar is amazing at putting intense pressure on the opponent, and nothing on Team 1 at the present can easily take a +1 Stone Edge or Crunch. Sandstorm damage isn't too much of a problem for Team 2, yet Kyurem-B on Team 1 will be distraught about losing Leftovers recovery. CB Tyranitar also has incredible offensive synergy with Heatran and Keldeo, removing almost all of their potential checks from play with little effort. Since Team 2 has Celebi, we shouldn't have to worry too much about Landorus getting free setup on Tyranitar locked into Pursuit.

[Melee Mewtwo]

Hydreigon (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 Atk / 252 Spd
Mild Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Roost
- Superpower

What does this set do? Hydreigon is the ultimate wall-breaker and the hardest thing to switch into in OU. Draco Meteor is its all-powerful dragon STAB that OHKO's almost everything that doesn't resist it. Fire Blast roasts almost all the Steel types that do. Superpower allows Hydreigon to 2HKO the fire immune steel, Heatran, as well as 2HKO Blissey (and Chansey with prior damage) and OHKO SpDefensive Tyranitar. Roost lets Hydreigon heal off LO damage along with other passive damage and switch-in damage.

How can this set help the team? It pairs well with Celebii by providing the punch the other lacks while taking advantage of the paraspread and free Baton Pass switch-ins to take extra kills. It has no problem coming in by itself as Rotom-W can only tickle it and T-Wave will not stop it from taking a kill next turn. (barring parahax) Hydreigon can also switch into Lando-I's Earth Power and Psychic as well as tanking an HP Ice, if need be, to counter with a Draco Meteor. Hydreigon is uncounterable and that is very important in this project.

What can the other team do in response to this set? Absolutely nothing. Once Hydreigon is in it will take a kill. The best Team 1 can do is threaten to revenge kill. Trapping it is almost impossible as Scarf Gothitelle can only try to 2HKO it with Signal Beam whereas Wobbufett can only switch in once and Roost prevents any Magic Coat or Custap Destiny Bond shenanigans.

What potential additions can be made to deal with these responses? Team 2 doesn't have to do a thing as Team 1 has no possible response to Hydreigon.

[White symphoni]

Team 2 has covered team 1 pretty well now.So it's time to add something that puts extra offensive pressure.Thus I nominate Terrakion.I was initially thinking of SubSD set but decided to post CBTerrakion for it's ability to hurt Landorus-I and Rotom-W hard right away.


Terrakion @ Choice Band
Trait: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- X-Scissor
- Quick Attack

Standard CB terrakion.Rock+Fighting provides nearly universal coverage and with Terrakion's 129 attack stat and STAB on both them as well as 120 and 100 base power of Close Combat and Stone Edge makes Terrakion nearly impossible to switch into.X-Scissor and Quick attack are fillers.X-Scissor hits physically defensive Celebi and Slowbro harder while quick attack picks of weakend threats.Terrakion puts immense offensive pressure on Team 1 and is impossible to hard counter.

Heatran and Keldeo checks Scizor nicely,one of Terrakion's main revenge killer,while Celebi takes care of potential Breloom.Terrakion busts open lots of pokemon assisting Team 1 greatly.It's powerful physical presence also comes in handy as Team 2's all 3 picks are special attackers.

[Remedy]

I am nominating :


Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Thick Fat
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Superpower
- EarthQuake
- Ice Shard
- Stealth Rock


At the moment he does a nice job at threatening the slow opponent team, moreover he will be a major pain in the butt for a Latias for instance. Because at the moment Latias looks really annoying, walling a large part of our team.
Furthermore, he acts like a security net against Landorus, making sure that, no matter what happens, he won't be sweeping us.
He can 2HKO Rotom-W, and will be the wallbreaker every Keldeo dreams of.

Given his coverage it will be really HARD for the opposing team to react to this pick.
He synergies perfectly with our picks, given the resistances and all.

Oh, and he brings Stealth Rock, I mean, why not ?
(if you prefer I'll just change it for Icycle Spear, but at the moment, we need it).

[futuresuperstar]

I propose... Choice Scarf Breloom!



Breloom @ Choice Scarf
Jolly, Technician, 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
~ Spore
~ Bullet Seed
~ Force Palm
~ Stone Edge

I agree with the idea that we should definitely go on the offensive with this pick, as we have Team 1's threats almost entirely covered between Heatran, Keldeo, and Celebi. What we don't really have, though, is something that can threaten any Pokemon that Team 1 selects at any time--and that's Spore.

What I love about this set is just how threatening technician-boosted Bullet Seed and Force Palm are. Force Palm, for reference, is a 90 BP move with a 30% chance of paralysis. With the combination of Celebi's Thunder Wave and Force Palm, we'll likely spread a great deal of paralysis to the other team. More importantly, Bullet Seed gives us a potent weapon that can comfortably outspeed and knock out Rotom-W. Force Palm takes care of Kyurem-B. With Spore and Choice Scarf, we can outspeed anything on the other team, including most fighting-resistant and grass-resistant threats, and put anything to sleep that isn't paralyzed with 100% accuracy. That effectively means that anything our team cannot comfortable counter, we can out-speed and shut down at the very least. This means that Breloom would act as an excellent lead, threatening sleep at any given notice--which means Landorus cannot comfortably switch-in at any point if Sleep Clause hasn't been activated. Meanwhile, Bullet Seed 2HKOs comfortably, OHKOs Rotom, and with all of Kyurem-B's mighty bulk, it's completely destroyed by Force Palm.

Stone Edge is for coverage, should Team 1 load up on flying-types. The best thing about picking Breloom now is that we can scout how Team 1 responds--do they pick a dedicated sleep absorber? If so, we can easily react and plan accordingly, and we've already forced them to adjust. Do they put a choice scarf on something even faster to force it out? If so, we've forced them to rely on high-speed Pokemon to "check" Breloom rather than counter it, which makes Celebi's Thunder Wave and Breloom's Force Palm all that much more effective, possibly crippling their response. Do they load up on fighting-type resists and grass-type resists to resist Breloom's onslaught? Then we know we can comfortable employ Stealth Rock, which will hit most of Breloom's counters for a quarter of their health every switch-in (flying-types).

In terms of synergy, Breloom may seem a bit redundant with Celebi, but keep in mind that Celebi's biggest counter--Tyranitar--can be comfortable neutralized. Breloom can switch in on anything Tyranitar throws at Celebi, barring a mixed Ice Beam or Fire Blast set, and put Team 1 at a huge disadvantage immediately. Celebi can Baton Pass to Breloom, as well, safely bringing it in against any dark-typed threats. It also doubles-up on fighting-typed STAB for Team 2, putting severe pressure on Team 1 and punishing it for choosing any steel-types. And, should this deterrent prove effective, we can easily select a Dragon-type Pokemon with our last pick and blow Team 2 wide open. It also might force Team 1 to use ghost-types or psychic-types, such as Alakazam, which we can easily respond to, as well.

Just remember--after almost any kill, we can send Breloom in and immediately regain momentum against them with either STAB or speedy Spore. Sure, we have to switch after we put something to sleep, but our team so perfectly counters Team 2 that a double-switch won't exactly do us much harm.

[TyranitarAbuser]

Lucario@Life Orb

Ability: Justified

Adamant

4HP/252Atk/252Spe

-Swords Dance
-Close Combat
-Extremespeed
-Ice Punch

Lucario, a fearsome sweeper after gaining a single Swords Dance boost. Right now, Lucario seems like a great fit for Team two. It easily tackles Pursuit users (Tyranitar) that want to take advantage of Celebi, revenging it with the threat of a SE CC, and setting up a SD while it switches. Ice Punch can hit Landorus on the switch, freeing up the risk of an RP Landorus sweep.

However, Crunch and Bullet Punch can still take the last spot, Crunch helping out with things like offensive Celebi and Lati@s while BPunch helps to KO Terrakion and Scarf TTar while retaining the ability to deal damage to faster Ghost types like Gengar.

[futuresuperstar]

Originally Posted by Fat TyranitarAbuser

Lucario@Life Orb

Ability: Justified

Adamant

4HP/252Atk/252Spe

-Swords Dance
-Close Combat
-Extremespeed
-Bullet Punch

Lucario, a fearsome sweeper after gaining a single Swords Dance boost. Right now, Lucario seems like a great fit for Team two. It easily tackles Pursuit users (Tyranitar) that want to take advantage of Celebi, revenging it with the threat of a SE CC, and setting up a SD while it switches. With Bullet Punch, Lucario has a second form of priority and STAB, taking down Terrakion, Gengar and Scarf Ttar, all of which are faster than Lucario and can deal heavy damage.

However, Crunch and Ice Fang can also take the last slot, Crunch helping take out Lati@s while Ice Fang will maul Garchomp and Lando. Still, I prefer the priority and secondary STAB, due to Lucario's low base speed.

I would definitely go with Ice Punch over Bullet Punch so that you can actually nab a kill against Landorus on a switch-in. Without it, it won't mind switching in on Swords Dance and KO'ing with Earthquake, as Extremespeed won't KO. If it knows you have Ice Punch (by the nature of this topic, it will), it won't necessarily be as free to switch in.

[TyranitarAbuser]

Bullet Punch will give me a STAB with which I can KO Terrak, ScArf TTar, and other things that can outspeed and KO me. I think Landorus is pretty much checked by Celebi, though Ice Punch can be useful when Celebi dies.

Btw, what happens if Keldeo is banned in the suspect rounds? Do we still get to pick Tornadus-T?

[ganj4lF]

As you noticed, I'm quite busy atm, and NixHex is handling the thread for me for a couple of days. However I watched the noms and was quite disappointed to be honest: besides a predictable lack of discussion (yeah new year plus suspect tests plus whatever else), it seems to me that every single proposal makes us very weak to an opposing (CB)Terrakion pick. Celebi can't take CB Stone Edges, or X-Scissors from any set (tbh even Close Combat can 2HKO if Celebi is under 75% of its health...), and they already have Rotom as a form of VoltTurn, so they can/will find a way to switch it in for free. I can see in those pokemons a willingness to take an offensive approach, but that can lead to unwanted consequences, like forcing us to pick defensively later. I don't have an entry to submit right now to solve this, however I'd like to let this as food for thought I guess. Oh, and maybe to provoke some new discussion, which would be nice.

Happy new year to everyone.

[Melee Mewtwo]

There isn't an offensively oriented counter to CB Terrakion, (Outside of Golurk and Defensive SD Gliscor) so the best we can do is pick a fast offensive attacker that Rotom-W won't stay in to Volt Switch that would at the same time make sure Terrakion won't want to switch in on either. We could also pick a 109+ Speed mon but if we accomplish the above the only use that will provide is avoiding a revenge kill (which isn't very useful for the other team as it implys losing one of their specially selected 6). Picking a defensive mon would be silly to do at this point as it wastes the free pick for a threat that hasn't even shown up yet. The other team has plenty of options that can threaten to OHKO or 2HKO everything, the trick is trying to find one that does this while countering (more or less) the other team. In any case we already have a Scarf Keldeo to revenge kill something like Terrakion.

[Remedy]

Originally Posted by Fat ganj4lF

As you noticed, I'm quite busy atm, and NixHex is handling the thread for me for a couple of days. However I watched the noms and was quite disappointed to be honest: besides a predictable lack of discussion (yeah new year plus suspect tests plus whatever else), it seems to me that every single proposal makes us very weak to an opposing (CB)Terrakion pick. Celebi can't take CB Stone Edges, or X-Scissors from any set (tbh even Close Combat can 2HKO if Celebi is under 75% of its health...), and they already have Rotom as a form of VoltTurn, so they can/will find a way to switch it in for free. I can see in those pokemons a willingness to take an offensive approach, but that can lead to unwanted consequences, like forcing us to pick defensively later. I don't have an entry to submit right now to solve this, however I'd like to let this as food for thought I guess. Oh, and maybe to provoke some new discussion, which would be nice.

Happy new year to everyone.

I totally disagree, what did you expect, I think like Mewtwo that anyway Terrakion can crush anything we could pick offensively.
But can a Terrakion switch on a Mamoswine or a Breloom ?
So I don't see your point at all.

If you want a CB Terrak, you can nominate, I'm really interested in what you could bring that would be so much better.

[ganj4lF]

Yeah, your points make sense. Maybe it's just me liking to overprepare against virtual threats. However, Mamoswine, in particular, is still a terrible idea to me, since Superpower doesn't do anything (yeah 50% something, that will promptly be Pain Splitted away later and still cannot 2HKO thanks to that Atk drop) against Rotom-W, which is then free to either Volt Switch / Pain Split after you or to throw Hydro Pumps at you. It sets Rocks, but that's pretty much it. CB Terrakion may be a good candidate at this point, putting Team 1 in a bad situation themselves for basically the same reasons I described above. Scarf Loom could also be an interesting pick, although it's easily dealt with to an extent (like a Natural Cure user, or a Sleep Talker).

I'm going to sit out and see how this round goes. I'm probably more confused than you guys at this point, and don't have a really worthwhile nomination to propose.