Doubles (New Topic - EV benchmarks!) - Page 2

breh · Dec 30th, 2012, 7:34:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Mr.lol

Just a random question but what happens if a person on a team uses Gravity when their partner is getting hit by Sky Drop ?_? Does this go into the ban or does the team using Gravity suffer.

The glitch isn't programmed on PS! (at least afaik), so nothing. Honestly this is one case where I'd much rather see deviation from game mechanics for the bettering of the game. Sky Drop is a move that more or less cannot be used in conventional online and it's more interesting to see whether or not it has actual use than just quickban it for the sake of staying true to the original.

Diana · Dec 30th, 2012, 7:50:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat voodoo pimp

Oh yeah, I completely missed Chandelure. That set is done pretty much entirely better by Cofagrigus, so try that instead if you find it useful enough to keep.

The only issue is that I find that my team needs that extra Fire resistance, and I found myself needing Shadow Ball over Heat Wave overall. That being said I may try the changes or something new altogether but I feel like my team needs more than Terrakion for Fire-type moves.

I'm good with all the other changes from Pocket, I'll play around with Terrakion's moveset a bit since Helping Hand was honestly filler.

Edit: Looking now I'm not quite as worried, I have a little insurance with Occa on Jirachi I guess. Probably going to replace Chandelure with something else.

Level 51 · Dec 30th, 2012, 10:46:11 PM

Level 51 vs Diana

Once again Trick Room proves itself to be an excellent companion for my team... although I probably would have lost anyway if not for the misshax. Reminder to self: test BrightPowder + Snow Cloak.

**Pocket** · Dec 31st, 2012, 5:49:47 PM

Close game! Diana, try Earth Power on Skymin - you could've easily disposed Heatran and won the game without relying on Latios's Draco Meteor ;d. You already have two Tailwind users already, which is more than enough, imo, especially since your team is packed with fast Pokemon that does not need much Tailwind support to begin with.

As for the battle itself, Diana didn't need to Tailwind on the second turn with Latios, since she's already faster than the rest of Level 51's team. The double-target KO of Manaphy was a nice play ;d

OTR Reuniclus is a bitch even in Doubles :/

BlankZero · Dec 31st, 2012, 6:26:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Pocket

Close game! Diana, try Earth Power on Skymin - you could've easily disposed Heatran and won the game without relying on Latios's Draco Meteor ;d. You already have two Tailwind users already, which is more than enough, imo, especially since your team is packed with fast Pokemon that does not need much Tailwind support to begin with.

As for the battle itself, Diana didn't need to Tailwind on the second turn with Latios, since she's already faster than the rest of Level 51's team. The double-target KO of Manaphy was a nice play ;d

OTR Reuniclus is a bitch even in Doubles :/

I felt that she could have used Fake Out on Reuniclus instead of Heatran, and not had to lose Hitmontop that turn like that.

Audiosurfer · Dec 31st, 2012, 6:57:46 PM

Audiosurfer vs. breh. Why you should be sure to have something to hit Heatran.

Mr.lol · Dec 31st, 2012, 9:12:04 PM

Victini has amazing potential in doubles !_!. It gets access to a ton of powerful moves like V-Create, Bolt Strike, and perhaps the most interesting one, Glaciate. Its certainly no Mew when it comes to diversity in its attacking movepool but its definetly a competitor. It can run a strong Physically Offensive set that tries to lay down a ton of V-Creates (the drops might get annoying though, but it OHKOes practically everything in the sun with Fire Gem V-Create). Bolt Strike and Brick Break let it strike down any foes trying to get rid of its weather (it can't OHKO Tyranitar but it does a good bit of damage to it). A Specially Offensive set isn't that bad either. It gets accurate Fire Blasts and Heat Wave (Victory Star), Glaciate (which hits two enemies and slows down speed), Thunder, Focus Blast, and Psychic / Psyshock.

Has anyone managed to use this little star successfully? If so what'd they use? I tried it in a few battles in a team I made with Diana but it hasn't been able to do much (either never got in the match, or Trick Room / Tailwind lead to its death prematurely).

**Arcticblast** · Dec 31st, 2012, 11:43:14 PM

I just had my tournament battle with Level 51, and I have to say - why in the world is Telepathy not mentioned in the OP? It's one of the best Gen5 additions to Doubles, preventing damage from attacks used by your allies. I assume this only applies to spread attacks like Earthquake, but still, it's amazing.

**voodoo pimp** · Jan 1st, 2013, 12:18:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Arcticblast

I just had my tournament battle with Level 51, and I have to say - why in the world is Telepathy not mentioned in the OP? It's one of the best Gen5 additions to Doubles, preventing damage from attacks used by your allies. I assume this only applies to spread attacks like Earthquake, but still, it's amazing.

It also blocks single-target offensive moves from allies, but that doesn't really matter because none of the offensive moves you'd use on allies are any good on the current Telepathy users.

The problem, though, is that most of the Pokémon that get it aren't that good. Musharna, Gardevoir, and Beheeyem are all outclassed by Cresselia and/or Mew and/or other bulky Psychics in pretty much every way except Telepathy, and the others are either banned or garbage. If we get an Ubers metagame going, it might see some use there.

That said, you can make use of it, but you pretty much have to build your team around it for it to be worthwhile. For instance, my VGC Worlds 2011 team was built around Helping Hand Musharna, Discharge Thundurus, and Earthquake/Explosion Landorus.

Mr.lol · Jan 1st, 2013, 5:52:02 PM

Polop vs. Audiosurfer

Whimsicott ends up completely disrupting the outcome of a match by forcing Pokemon to continuously spam Protect and Fake Out X_X. This gives enough time to let Victini "sweep" a team. That and Heat Wave has the tendency to always miss and burn at the wrong times.

Audiosurfer · Jan 1st, 2013, 6:27:55 PM

Yeah, Whimsicott definitely disrupted my strategy alot. Ban Prankster Encore.

Anyways, I've been testing out Doubles by trying out Sun and how effective it is in the metagame, and it's worked pretty well thusfar. One set I've enjoyed using is Iron Ball Ninetales. It can be difficult to lead off against Rain Teams, but with Iron Ball you're guaranteed to set Sun, making leading with Ninetales much less risky and putting the opposing Rain team in a worse position. Here's the team I've been using, for anyone who's interested. Definitely can be improved but it's worked pretty well for me.

...

Also, on the topic of Sun, how much of an impact do you guys think it could have in the metagame with things like Blaziken, Venusaur, Volcarona and Victini to use? Would it work well or face difficulties with the other weathers in the metagame?

BlankZero · Jan 1st, 2013, 6:37:28 PM

My strategy is a bit gimmicky, but it works out ok I suppose.

Whimisicott @ Red Card
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
-Stun Spore
-Beat Up
-Taunt
-Encore

[img]http://sprites.pokecheck.org/i/448.gif/img]
Lucario @ Leftovers
Trait: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
-Agility
-Extremespeed
-Close Combat
-Crunch

This is basically the WhimsiFied duo, with Lucario instead of Terrakion. In Standard Doubles, Beat Up gives Lucario an instant +6 Atk, while using Agility that turn gives you +2 Speed as well. Extremespeed for Priority even under TR settings. Crunch for Ghosts, and +6 CC's decimate EVERYTHING. Whimsicott then goes and Paralyzes, Taunts, and Encores everything else with Priority.

Yes it is a bit gimmicy, but it's funny to see people freak once your Lucario is sudden;y +6/+2 on turn 1 and killing everything. This setup is very good against common TR leads also.

2HKOing Cress after TR? Yes please! And Whimsi can Taunt first turn if need be while Lucario Crunches away at Cress.

252Atk +6 lvl 50 Lucario (Neutral) ExtremeSpeed vs 252HP/60Def Levitate lvl 50 Cresselia (+Def): 52% - 62% (120 - 142 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

ThePillsburyDoughBoy · Jan 2nd, 2013, 2:12:11 AM

omg i love this meta

Anyway since Skymin is everywhere (might he be the first poke to go?) I decided to use one of the more niche pokes from the VGC metagame:

Aerodactyl (F) @ Focus Sash / Rock Gem?
Trait: Unnerve
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Protect
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake

Meet UnerveDactyl! The most important trait about Aerodactyl is his speed. Aerodactyl can outspeed Skymin and hit it very hard with a STAB Rock Slide. With the lack of Choice Scarfers in doubles, Aerodactyl rarely finds himself outsped, so you can rely on him to get off some damage in desperate situations. Aerodactyl also finds himself with one of the fastest taunts in the game outside of Prankster and Deoxys-S. However, Aerodactyl most important role on a team is preventing the consumption of berries. Therefore, a lot of Pokes that rely on Berries to setup or to stay active i.e. Heatran, Skymin, Creselia, will find themselves faultering when Aerodactyl is in play.

With Aerodactyl, note its weakness to Rock and Water spread moves. It also is suceptible to intimidate spam from Hitmontop. IMO its best partners are Keldeo, Mamoswine, and Breloom. Keldeo resists the spread moves of Aerodactyl very well and can take advantage of the fact Skymin will have trouble checking it at the hand of a helping hand boosted rock slide. However, pairing Surf with Aerodactyl is really not ideal. Many pokemon rely on Yache berry to curtail their 4x Ice Weakness, which is where Mamoswine comes in. Aeroactyl is immune to EQ and can Taunt an Cress that might interfer with Mamoswine. Lastly, there is Breloom, who can utilize sleep without fear of berries preventing its effect.

**Pocket** · Jan 2nd, 2013, 4:49:30 PM

Doughboy, Unnerve Aerodactyl certainly looks kick-ass for this current meta! Note that you can try Power Herb Sky Attack or Sky Drop on Aerodactyl, too ;d Tailwind and Stone Edge are other options that you may want to consider, too, for team support / bypassing Wide Guard.

Man Victini in the sun sure wrecks - thanks for the games - Audiosurfer! A sun TR team with Victini and Heatran sure sounds threatening. Maybe add a Gothitelle to quickly remove Abomasnow / Politoed from the opponent's team, too.

Thanks for sharing your team, Audiosurfer. Iron Ball Ninetales is dumb, imo - I'd much rather use Sunny Day, imo. That way it can use SolarBeam instead of Energy Ball, too.

Audiosurfer · Jan 2nd, 2013, 5:45:26 PM

Sunny Day Ninetales sounds pretty cool :) I'll have to try that out. One perk of using Iron Ball on Ninetales though is that outside of potential TR Sun teams it serves as a pretty useful TR check. I've had games where my opponent set up TR and Ninetales was able to deal good damage by "outspeeding" the opponent's team under it due to it using Iron Ball, so while Sunny Day has its perks, I'm not sure I'd completely discount Iron Ball on it.

BlankZero · Jan 2nd, 2013, 5:51:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Audiosurfer

Sunny Day Ninetales sounds pretty cool :) I'll have to try that out. One perk of using Iron Ball on Ninetales though is that outside of potential TR Sun teams it serves as a pretty useful TR check. I've had games where my opponent set up TR and Ninetales was able to deal good damage by "outspeeding" the opponent's team under it due to it using Iron Ball, so while Sunny Day has its perks, I'm not sure I'd completely discount Iron Ball on it.

<3 Iron Ball Ninetales. It underspeeds all the current weather starters, so you're guaranteed weather on Turn 1.

Audiosurfer · Jan 2nd, 2013, 6:03:47 PM

Yeah, has made facing opposing weather much less of a pain then it otherwise would be. Also, Audiosurfer vs. Voodoo Pimp. Put the log in hide tags because PS is being dumb and not saving replays w/o giving a million errors :/. Was a fun battle though and a cool way to test out my sand team.

...

SuperHydreigon1996 · Jan 3rd, 2013, 6:57:56 PM

OH MY GOD, YEEEEEESSS
I thought you guys would've never explored Double Battling, and as a player who prefers Double Battles over Single Battles, I was always irked at the fact that you only had tier lists for Single Battles. As soon as I saw this thread, I screamed for joy. I even went and made a team in my White 2 cartridge for Standard Doubles.
You guys win an internet for bringing this Christmas gift to Double Players around. Thanks Smogon, this is why I am a proud Smogonite.

**voodoo pimp** · Jan 4th, 2013, 1:13:55 AM

Me vs DTC
My sun vs Pocket's rain

My experience so far suggests that all it takes is a little speed control to make Victini into a monster. Sun in general seems perfectly viable in the meta right now, especially with hail seemingly being the most popular team style. Even Ninetales isn't useless, since its support abilities come in handy more than in singles.

**Pocket** · Jan 4th, 2013, 1:36:31 AM

war of the weathers! Note to self: that's NOT how to win the weather war x_x

OK, so i concede that Iron Ball Ninetales is legit. Forced me to waste a turn to use Rain Dance, which resulted in me losing Politoed ;x

The reason why I so wastefully switched in Heracross, only to have it be burned to crisp was because I was expecting Ninetales to Protect fsr to block Latios's powerful dragon moves ;x Another dumb play on my part.

Victini in the sun is pretty much guaranteed to kill something. Luckily it didn't destroy me. What destroyed me was that Iron Ball Ninetales and Shiftry lead. And Cresselia - this lunar duck in the sun is a BITCH to take out x_x;; fucking stalled me to death at the end.

Don't expect to beat me so easily next time ;0

BlankZero · Jan 4th, 2013, 3:59:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Pocket

war of the weathers! Note to self: that's NOT how to win the weather war x_x

OK, so i concede that Iron Ball Ninetales is legit. Forced me to waste a turn to use Rain Dance, which resulted in me losing Politoed ;x

The reason why I so wastefully switched in Heracross, only to have it be burned to crisp was because I was expecting Ninetales to Protect fsr to block Latios's powerful dragon moves ;x Another dumb play on my part.

Victini in the sun is pretty much guaranteed to kill something. Luckily it didn't destroy me. What destroyed me was that Iron Ball Ninetales and Shiftry lead. And Cresselia - this lunar duck in the sun is a BITCH to take out x_x;; fucking stalled me to death at the end.

Don't expect to beat me so easily next time ;0

It's too bad Blaziken was so misused there. I find Blaze to be even more brutal than Vicinti given it needs one turn to protect, then it outspeeds everything not named Venusaur or scarfed.

**voodoo pimp** · Jan 4th, 2013, 1:33:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat BlankZero

It's too bad Blaziken was so misused there. I find Blaze to be even more brutal than Vicinti given it needs one turn to protect, then it outspeeds everything not named Venusaur or scarfed.

Yeah, that was a dumb misplay on my part. I knew he was going to Protect with Manectric expecting the HJK, and I could have KO'd Latios with HP Ice, but for some reason I clicked Heat Wave instead.

BlankZero · Jan 4th, 2013, 2:54:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat voodoo pimp

Yeah, that was a dumb misplay on my part. I knew he was going to Protect with Manectric expecting the HJK, and I could have KO'd Latios with HP Ice, but for some reason I clicked Heat Wave instead.

You don't run Flare Blitz on Blaziken in the Sun? O.o

Even if you use Life Orb, Sunny Blitz destroys nearly everything.

**voodoo pimp** · Jan 4th, 2013, 3:51:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat BlankZero

You don't run Flare Blitz on Blaziken in the Sun? O.o

Even if you use Life Orb, Sunny Blitz destroys nearly everything.

Nah, having a strong spread move is more important IMO. It still KOs what it needs to (read: Skymin).

**Pocket** · Jan 4th, 2013, 4:40:16 PM

You sure about that voodoo pimp?

252 Atk Charcoal Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 60+ Def Cresselia in sun: 247-292 (55.63 - 65.76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Charcoal Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios in sun: 201-237 (66.55 - 78.47%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That's an OHKO on Latios if you can give it Helping Hand support. Definitely worth having a move that's not fucked by Protect (HJK) or Wide Guard (Heat Wave), don't ya agree xP

Flare Blitz from Blaziken is almost like V-create Victini - you hit only one target, but you hit it HARD, probably gonna KO, too.

Dec 30th, 2012, 10:46:11 PM	#28
Level 51 AFK 'til Monday Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 748 Location: Singapore ^.^	Level 51 vs Diana Once again Trick Room proves itself to be an excellent companion for my team... although I probably would have lost anyway if not for the misshax. Reminder to self: test BrightPowder + Snow Cloak. __________________ Back to school, gg contribution rate [15:59] <&@chaos\|away> i hence forth make it official: im better than arcticblast [15:59] <&@chaos\|away> spread the word

Dec 31st, 2012, 5:49:47 PM	#29
Pocket Bakuman ;< Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 7,160 Bergenfield	Close game! Diana, try Earth Power on Skymin - you could've easily disposed Heatran and won the game without relying on Latios's Draco Meteor ;d. You already have two Tailwind users already, which is more than enough, imo, especially since your team is packed with fast Pokemon that does not need much Tailwind support to begin with. As for the battle itself, Diana didn't need to Tailwind on the second turn with Latios, since she's already faster than the rest of Level 51's team. The double-target KO of Manaphy was a nice play ;d OTR Reuniclus is a bitch even in Doubles :/ __________________ Dark Horse Project: Conquer the Ladder! \| Word of Wisdom for Trainers \| Smogon Doubles: Let's Make It Official!

Dec 31st, 2012, 6:57:46 PM	#31
Audiosurfer Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 323	Audiosurfer vs. breh. Why you should be sure to have something to hit Heatran. __________________ Intro to things I like/use: Last.fm (new)\| Pojo \| Dueling Network \| PS \| Downton Abbey \| Once Upon a Time \| Cartoons \| Movies \| Harry Potter \| Finance \| #doubles \| #neverused PM/VM me for an NU rate! Also free Emboar. #banRU

Dec 31st, 2012, 9:12:04 PM	#32
Mr.lol Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 652 Where i is real	Victini has amazing potential in doubles !_!. It gets access to a ton of powerful moves like V-Create, Bolt Strike, and perhaps the most interesting one, Glaciate. Its certainly no Mew when it comes to diversity in its attacking movepool but its definetly a competitor. It can run a strong Physically Offensive set that tries to lay down a ton of V-Creates (the drops might get annoying though, but it OHKOes practically everything in the sun with Fire Gem V-Create). Bolt Strike and Brick Break let it strike down any foes trying to get rid of its weather (it can't OHKO Tyranitar but it does a good bit of damage to it). A Specially Offensive set isn't that bad either. It gets accurate Fire Blasts and Heat Wave (Victory Star), Glaciate (which hits two enemies and slows down speed), Thunder, Focus Blast, and Psychic / Psyshock. Has anyone managed to use this little star successfully? If so what'd they use? I tried it in a few battles in a team I made with Diana but it hasn't been able to do much (either never got in the match, or Trick Room / Tailwind lead to its death prematurely). __________________ (15:32) Dusk [DW Uber]: Actually Deoxys-a is not the frailest uber (15:32) Dusk [DW Uber]:Its Carvanha (15:33) X-Spin: O.O What are its bases? (15:33) Dusk [DW Uber]: 45/20/20 so close to matching Deo-a's 50/20/20 (15:33) X-Spin: That's enough to wall Specs Kyogre! Great Sage is the best.

Dec 31st, 2012, 11:43:14 PM	#33
Arcticblast is going goat Moderator Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 2,964 #serperiors Mentor	I just had my tournament battle with Level 51, and I have to say - why in the world is Telepathy not mentioned in the OP? It's one of the best Gen5 additions to Doubles, preventing damage from attacks used by your allies. I assume this only applies to spread attacks like Earthquake, but still, it's amazing. __________________ New to Smogon? Afraid to jump into discussion? Introduce yourself! ------------------- Fail Cup \| Scramble! \| RMTs: Blistering Sands (BH) Night Stall (OU) \| The Fringe Tournament \| ARcTicblast \| Other Metagames Premier League \| avatar by raikou00, signature art by Zracknel additional credit to Pocket and AccidentalGreed

Jan 1st, 2013, 5:52:02 PM	#35
Mr.lol Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 652 Where i is real	Polop vs. Audiosurfer Whimsicott ends up completely disrupting the outcome of a match by forcing Pokemon to continuously spam Protect and Fake Out X_X. This gives enough time to let Victini "sweep" a team. That and Heat Wave has the tendency to always miss and burn at the wrong times. __________________ (15:32) Dusk [DW Uber]: Actually Deoxys-a is not the frailest uber (15:32) Dusk [DW Uber]:Its Carvanha (15:33) X-Spin: O.O What are its bases? (15:33) Dusk [DW Uber]: 45/20/20 so close to matching Deo-a's 50/20/20 (15:33) X-Spin: That's enough to wall Specs Kyogre! Great Sage is the best.

Jan 1st, 2013, 6:27:55 PM	#36
Audiosurfer Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 323	Yeah, Whimsicott definitely disrupted my strategy alot. Ban Prankster Encore. Anyways, I've been testing out Doubles by trying out Sun and how effective it is in the metagame, and it's worked pretty well thusfar. One set I've enjoyed using is Iron Ball Ninetales. It can be difficult to lead off against Rain Teams, but with Iron Ball you're guaranteed to set Sun, making leading with Ninetales much less risky and putting the opposing Rain team in a worse position. Here's the team I've been using, for anyone who's interested. Definitely can be improved but it's worked pretty well for me. ... Ninetales @ Iron Ball Trait: Drought EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk Quiet Nature IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def / 2 Spd - Heat Wave - Hidden Power [Ice] - Energy Ball - Protect Shaymin-Sky @ Yache Berry Trait: Serene Grace EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP Timid Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Air Slash - Earth Power - Seed Flare - Protect Hitmontop (M) @ Fighting Gem Trait: Intimidate EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd Adamant Nature - Fake Out - Close Combat - Sucker Punch - Wide Guard Cresselia @ Sitrus Berry Trait: Levitate EVs: 252 HP / 28 SAtk / 230 SDef Calm Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Psychic - Sunny Day - Helping Hand - Moonlight Salamence @ Dragon Gem Trait: Intimidate EVs: 140 HP / 252 SAtk / 116 Spd Modest Nature - Draco Meteor - Heat Wave - Tailwind - Protect Heatran @ Chople Berry Trait: Flash Fire EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Modest Nature IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def - Heat Wave - Earth Power - Hidden Power [Ice] - Protect Also, on the topic of Sun, how much of an impact do you guys think it could have in the metagame with things like Blaziken, Venusaur, Volcarona and Victini to use? Would it work well or face difficulties with the other weathers in the metagame? __________________ Intro to things I like/use: Last.fm (new)\| Pojo \| Dueling Network \| PS \| Downton Abbey \| Once Upon a Time \| Cartoons \| Movies \| Harry Potter \| Finance \| #doubles \| #neverused PM/VM me for an NU rate! Also free Emboar. #banRU

Jan 1st, 2013, 6:37:28 PM	#37
BlankZero Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 548 East Coast, USA	My strategy is a bit gimmicky, but it works out ok I suppose. Whimisicott @ Red Card Trait: Prankster EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spe / 4 Def Timid Nature IVs: 0 Atk -Stun Spore -Beat Up -Taunt -Encore [img]http://sprites.pokecheck.org/i/448.gif/img] Lucario @ Leftovers Trait: Justified EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP Jolly Nature -Agility -Extremespeed -Close Combat -Crunch This is basically the WhimsiFied duo, with Lucario instead of Terrakion. In Standard Doubles, Beat Up gives Lucario an instant +6 Atk, while using Agility that turn gives you +2 Speed as well. Extremespeed for Priority even under TR settings. Crunch for Ghosts, and +6 CC's decimate EVERYTHING. Whimsicott then goes and Paralyzes, Taunts, and Encores everything else with Priority. Yes it is a bit gimmicy, but it's funny to see people freak once your Lucario is sudden;y +6/+2 on turn 1 and killing everything. This setup is very good against common TR leads also. 2HKOing Cress after TR? Yes please! And Whimsi can Taunt first turn if need be while Lucario Crunches away at Cress. 252Atk +6 lvl 50 Lucario (Neutral) ExtremeSpeed vs 252HP/60Def Levitate lvl 50 Cresselia (+Def): 52% - 62% (120 - 142 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. __________________ A forum post should be like a skirt; long enough to cover the important bits, yet short enough to keep things interesting. Most posts on Smogon are like Pantsuits. Last edited by BlankZero; Jan 2nd, 2013 at 6:07:58 PM. Reason: Filled in sets.

Jan 2nd, 2013, 2:12:11 AM	#38
ThePillsburyDoughBoy Ttar by Doughboy Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 951 Mentor	omg i love this meta Anyway since Skymin is everywhere (might he be the first poke to go?) I decided to use one of the more niche pokes from the VGC metagame: Aerodactyl (F) @ Focus Sash / Rock Gem? Trait: Unnerve EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd Jolly Nature - Taunt - Protect - Rock Slide - Earthquake Meet UnerveDactyl! The most important trait about Aerodactyl is his speed. Aerodactyl can outspeed Skymin and hit it very hard with a STAB Rock Slide. With the lack of Choice Scarfers in doubles, Aerodactyl rarely finds himself outsped, so you can rely on him to get off some damage in desperate situations. Aerodactyl also finds himself with one of the fastest taunts in the game outside of Prankster and Deoxys-S. However, Aerodactyl most important role on a team is preventing the consumption of berries. Therefore, a lot of Pokes that rely on Berries to setup or to stay active i.e. Heatran, Skymin, Creselia, will find themselves faultering when Aerodactyl is in play. With Aerodactyl, note its weakness to Rock and Water spread moves. It also is suceptible to intimidate spam from Hitmontop. IMO its best partners are Keldeo, Mamoswine, and Breloom. Keldeo resists the spread moves of Aerodactyl very well and can take advantage of the fact Skymin will have trouble checking it at the hand of a helping hand boosted rock slide. However, pairing Surf with Aerodactyl is really not ideal. Many pokemon rely on Yache berry to curtail their 4x Ice Weakness, which is where Mamoswine comes in. Aeroactyl is immune to EQ and can Taunt an Cress that might interfer with Mamoswine. Lastly, there is Breloom, who can utilize sleep without fear of berries preventing its effect. __________________ Check Out the 1 vs 1 Metagame: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3483807

Jan 2nd, 2013, 4:49:30 PM	#39
Pocket Bakuman ;< Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 7,160 Bergenfield	Doughboy, Unnerve Aerodactyl certainly looks kick-ass for this current meta! Note that you can try Power Herb Sky Attack or Sky Drop on Aerodactyl, too ;d Tailwind and Stone Edge are other options that you may want to consider, too, for team support / bypassing Wide Guard. Man Victini in the sun sure wrecks - thanks for the games - Audiosurfer! A sun TR team with Victini and Heatran sure sounds threatening. Maybe add a Gothitelle to quickly remove Abomasnow / Politoed from the opponent's team, too. Thanks for sharing your team, Audiosurfer. Iron Ball Ninetales is dumb, imo - I'd much rather use Sunny Day, imo. That way it can use SolarBeam instead of Energy Ball, too. __________________ Dark Horse Project: Conquer the Ladder! \| Word of Wisdom for Trainers \| Smogon Doubles: Let's Make It Official!

Jan 2nd, 2013, 5:45:26 PM	#40
Audiosurfer Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 323	Sunny Day Ninetales sounds pretty cool :) I'll have to try that out. One perk of using Iron Ball on Ninetales though is that outside of potential TR Sun teams it serves as a pretty useful TR check. I've had games where my opponent set up TR and Ninetales was able to deal good damage by "outspeeding" the opponent's team under it due to it using Iron Ball, so while Sunny Day has its perks, I'm not sure I'd completely discount Iron Ball on it. __________________ Intro to things I like/use: Last.fm (new)\| Pojo \| Dueling Network \| PS \| Downton Abbey \| Once Upon a Time \| Cartoons \| Movies \| Harry Potter \| Finance \| #doubles \| #neverused PM/VM me for an NU rate! Also free Emboar. #banRU

Jan 2nd, 2013, 6:03:47 PM	#42
Audiosurfer Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 323	Yeah, has made facing opposing weather much less of a pain then it otherwise would be. Also, Audiosurfer vs. Voodoo Pimp. Put the log in hide tags because PS is being dumb and not saving replays w/o giving a million errors :/. Was a fun battle though and a cool way to test out my sand team. ... Voodoo Pimp joined. Audiosurfer joined. Format: Doubles Custom Game Audiosurfer's team: Excadrill / Tyranitar / Cresselia / Rotom-Wash / Hitmontop / Shaymin-Sky Voodoo Pimp's team: Shaymin-Sky / Hitmontop / Volcarona / Rotom-Wash / Weavile / Scizor Battle between Voodoo Pimp and Audiosurfer started! Voodoo Pimp sent out Shaymin-Sky! Voodoo Pimp sent out Hitmontop! Audiosurfer sent out Tyranitar! Audiosurfer sent out Rotom-Wash! Tyranitar's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm! Turn 1 Rotom-Wash used Protect! [DEBUG] Success chance: 100%. Rotom-Wash protected itself! Tyranitar used Protect! [DEBUG] Success chance: 100%. Tyranitar protected itself! The foe's Hitmontop used Fake Out! Rotom-Wash protected itself! [DEBUG] doubling secondary chance. The foe's Shaymin-Sky used Seed Flare! Tyranitar protected itself! The sandstorm rages. The foe's Shaymin-Sky is buffeted by the sandstorm! Rotom-Wash is buffeted by the sandstorm! The foe's Hitmontop is buffeted by the sandstorm! [DEBUG] natural immunity. [DEBUG] weather immunity. Turn 2 Audiosurfer called Tyranitar back! Audiosurfer sent out Cresselia! The foe's Hitmontop used Mach Punch! [DEBUG] Technician boost. The Fighting Gem strengthened Mach Punch's power! It's not very effective... Cresselia lost 14% of its health! [DEBUG] doubling secondary chance. The foe's Shaymin-Sky used Seed Flare! It's super effective! Rotom-Wash lost 94% of its health! The foe's Shaymin-Sky lost some of its HP! Rotom-Wash fainted! The sandstorm rages. The foe's Shaymin-Sky is buffeted by the sandstorm! Cresselia is buffeted by the sandstorm! The foe's Hitmontop is buffeted by the sandstorm! Audiosurfer sent out Hitmontop! Hitmontop intimidates the foe's Shaymin-Sky! The foe's Shaymin-Sky's Attack fell! Hitmontop intimidates the foe's Hitmontop! The foe's Hitmontop's Attack fell! Turn 3 The foe's Shaymin-Sky used Protect! [DEBUG] Success chance: 100%. The foe's Shaymin-Sky protected itself! Hitmontop used Fake Out! The foe's Shaymin-Sky protected itself! The foe's Hitmontop used Sucker Punch! It's super effective! Cresselia lost 20% of its health! Cresselia used Psychic! It's super effective! The foe's Hitmontop lost 52% of its health! The sandstorm rages. The foe's Shaymin-Sky is buffeted by the sandstorm! Cresselia is buffeted by the sandstorm! The foe's Hitmontop is buffeted by the sandstorm! Hitmontop is buffeted by the sandstorm! Hitmontop restored HP using its Leftovers! Turn 4 The foe's Hitmontop used Sucker Punch! It's super effective! Cresselia lost 23% of its health! Hitmontop used Sucker Punch! The foe's Shaymin-Sky lost 32% of its health! [DEBUG] doubling secondary chance. The foe's Shaymin-Sky used Air Slash! It's super effective! Hitmontop lost 91% of its health! The foe's Shaymin-Sky lost some of its HP! Cresselia used Icy Wind! It's super effective! The foe's Shaymin-Sky lost 30% of its health! The foe's Hitmontop lost 8% of its health! The foe's Hitmontop's Speed fell! The foe's Shaymin-Sky fainted! The sandstorm rages. Cresselia is buffeted by the sandstorm! Hitmontop is buffeted by the sandstorm! The foe's Hitmontop is buffeted by the sandstorm! Hitmontop restored HP using its Leftovers! Voodoo Pimp sent out Scizor! Turn 5 Hitmontop used Sucker Punch! It's not very effective... The foe's Hitmontop lost 15% of its health! The foe's Hitmontop used Mach Punch! [DEBUG] Technician boost. Hitmontop lost 9% of its health! Hitmontop fainted! Cresselia used Rest! Cresselia fell asleep! Cresselia slept and became healthy! Cresselia ate its Chesto Berry! Cresselia woke up! The foe's Scizor used Bug Bite! [DEBUG] Technician boost. It's super effective! Cresselia lost 92% of its health! The foe's Scizor lost some of its HP! The sandstorm rages. Cresselia is buffeted by the sandstorm! [DEBUG] natural immunity. [DEBUG] weather immunity. The foe's Hitmontop is buffeted by the sandstorm! The foe's Hitmontop fainted! Audiosurfer sent out Shaymin-Sky! Voodoo Pimp sent out Rotom-Wash! Turn 6 Cresselia used Helping Hand! Cresselia is ready to help Shaymin-Sky! [DEBUG] doubling secondary chance. Shaymin-Sky used Air Slash! [DEBUG] Boosting from Helping Hand. The foe's Scizor lost 66% of its health! The foe's Rotom-Wash used Thunder Wave! Shaymin-Sky was paralyzed! It may be unable to move! The foe's Scizor flinched! [DEBUG] p1: Scizor move interrupted; movedThisTurn: false. The sandstorm rages. The foe's Rotom-Wash is buffeted by the sandstorm! Cresselia is buffeted by the sandstorm! [DEBUG] natural immunity. [DEBUG] weather immunity. Shaymin-Sky is buffeted by the sandstorm! Cresselia fainted! Audiosurfer sent out Tyranitar! Turn 7 Tyranitar used Protect! [DEBUG] Success chance: 100%. Tyranitar protected itself! The foe's Scizor used Bullet Punch! Tyranitar protected itself! The foe's Rotom-Wash used Hydro Pump! Tyranitar protected itself! [DEBUG] doubling secondary chance. Shaymin-Sky used Seed Flare! A critical hit! It's super effective! The foe's Rotom-Wash lost 94% of its health! The foe's Rotom-Wash fainted! The sandstorm rages. [DEBUG] natural immunity. [DEBUG] weather immunity. [DEBUG] natural immunity. [DEBUG] weather immunity. Shaymin-Sky is buffeted by the sandstorm! Voodoo Pimp sent out Volcarona! Turn 8 The foe's Volcarona used Protect! [DEBUG] Success chance: 100%. The foe's Volcarona protected itself! The foe's Scizor used Bug Bite! [DEBUG] Technician boost. It's super effective! Tyranitar lost 100% of its health! The foe's Scizor lost some of its HP! Tyranitar fainted! Shaymin-Sky is paralyzed! It can't move! [DEBUG] p2: Shaymin-Sky move interrupted; movedThisTurn: false. The sandstorm rages. The foe's Volcarona is buffeted by the sandstorm! [DEBUG] natural immunity. [DEBUG] weather immunity. Shaymin-Sky is buffeted by the sandstorm! Audiosurfer sent out Excadrill! Turn 9 Voodoo Pimp called Volcarona back! Voodoo Pimp sent out Weavile! The foe's Weavile is exerting its pressure! Excadrill used Rock Slide! The foe's Scizor lost 15% of its health! It's super effective! The foe's Weavile hung on using its Focus Sash! The foe's Weavile lost 100% of its health! Excadrill lost some of its HP! The foe's Scizor fainted! [DEBUG] doubling secondary chance. Shaymin-Sky used Air Slash! The foe's Weavile lost 0% of its health! The foe's Weavile fainted! The sandstorm rages. [DEBUG] natural immunity. [DEBUG] weather immunity. Shaymin-Sky is buffeted by the sandstorm! Voodoo Pimp sent out Volcarona! Turn 10 Excadrill used Rock Slide! It's super effective! The foe's Volcarona lost 94% of its health! Excadrill lost some of its HP! The foe's Volcarona fainted! Audiosurfer won the battle! Audiosurfer: gg Voodoo Pimp: gg Audiosurfer: shucks Audiosurfer: wanted to save a replay but its derping right now __________________ Intro to things I like/use: Last.fm (new)\| Pojo \| Dueling Network \| PS \| Downton Abbey \| Once Upon a Time \| Cartoons \| Movies \| Harry Potter \| Finance \| #doubles \| #neverused PM/VM me for an NU rate! Also free Emboar. #banRU

Jan 3rd, 2013, 6:57:56 PM	#43
SuperHydreigon1996 Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 53 Somewhere no one cares about	OH MY GOD, YEEEEEESSS I thought you guys would've never explored Double Battling, and as a player who prefers Double Battles over Single Battles, I was always irked at the fact that you only had tier lists for Single Battles. As soon as I saw this thread, I screamed for joy. I even went and made a team in my White 2 cartridge for Standard Doubles. You guys win an internet for bringing this Christmas gift to Double Players around. Thanks Smogon, this is why I am a proud Smogonite. __________________ "A game is life, but life is not a game." No matter how old I get, I will never stop loving Pokemon.

Jan 4th, 2013, 1:13:55 AM	#44
voodoo pimp Apply directly to the forehead Moderator Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 2,960	Me vs DTC My sun vs Pocket's rain My experience so far suggests that all it takes is a little speed control to make Victini into a monster. Sun in general seems perfectly viable in the meta right now, especially with hail seemingly being the most popular team style. Even Ninetales isn't useless, since its support abilities come in handy more than in singles. __________________ Check out Smogon's new Doubles metagame! White FC: 4126-4421-4056 Black 2 FC: 3311-0920-4475 My Pokécheck Pokémon RNG is kind of like firing a gun. Why shoot blindly in every direction until you're lucky enough to hit the target when you can just take the time to aim properly and hit it with one shot?

Jan 4th, 2013, 1:36:31 AM	#45
Pocket Bakuman ;< Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 7,160 Bergenfield	war of the weathers! Note to self: that's NOT how to win the weather war x_x OK, so i concede that Iron Ball Ninetales is legit. Forced me to waste a turn to use Rain Dance, which resulted in me losing Politoed ;x The reason why I so wastefully switched in Heracross, only to have it be burned to crisp was because I was expecting Ninetales to Protect fsr to block Latios's powerful dragon moves ;x Another dumb play on my part. Victini in the sun is pretty much guaranteed to kill something. Luckily it didn't destroy me. What destroyed me was that Iron Ball Ninetales and Shiftry lead. And Cresselia - this lunar duck in the sun is a BITCH to take out x_x;; fucking stalled me to death at the end. Don't expect to beat me so easily next time ;0 __________________ Dark Horse Project: Conquer the Ladder! \| Word of Wisdom for Trainers \| Smogon Doubles: Let's Make It Official!

Jan 4th, 2013, 4:40:16 PM	#50
Pocket Bakuman ;< Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 7,160 Bergenfield	You sure about that voodoo pimp? 252 Atk Charcoal Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 60+ Def Cresselia in sun: 247-292 (55.63 - 65.76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252 Atk Charcoal Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios in sun: 201-237 (66.55 - 78.47%) -- guaranteed 2HKO That's an OHKO on Latios if you can give it Helping Hand support. Definitely worth having a move that's not fucked by Protect (HJK) or Wide Guard (Heat Wave), don't ya agree xP Flare Blitz from Blaziken is almost like V-create Victini - you hit only one target, but you hit it HARD, probably gonna KO, too. __________________ Dark Horse Project: Conquer the Ladder! \| Word of Wisdom for Trainers \| Smogon Doubles: Let's Make It Official!