Pokémon X and Y Discussion

[Upstart]

Not everything can be OU. Lower tiers are created to allow the pokemon that don't make the cut to flourish. Trying to make every pokemon OU is impossible

[labarith]

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Kecleon

440 with a speed of 40! 40! For crying out loud, it's like they didn't even bother to playtest it.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Sceptile
90 BST points higher and still doesn't see OU play reliably.

Now either you vastly overrate Color Change, or you think of Kecleon as a trick room or sucker punch pokemon. Neither of which is particularly supported by any metagame I know of.

Color Change is an ability worth testing out in competitive on a pokemon with competitive stats. Kecleon isn't that pokemon.

Color Change could be a relatively neat foil for Choiced pokemon. Or if non-Dragon Outrage variants become popular, a foil for those. But on pathetic mr. 440...

For crying out loud, outside of Rotom's forms, which of these pokemon have you actually played with or against recently:
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wi...t_total_of_440

Originally Posted by Fat Upstart

Not everything can be OU. Lower tiers are created to allow the pokemon that don't make the cut to flourish. Trying to make every pokemon OU is impossible

Thank you sherlock. I'm saying that the color change ability, when backed up by competent stats, might affect the metagame. It might not be OU, but Kecleon doesn't get into OU because of it's horrible stats, not it's gimmicky ability.

And I actually think every pokemon should have a shot at OU; shouldn't be outclassed by another non-legendary pokemon in every regard, and should have a niche. It's tough work, but it's what separates the lazy people from the dedicated ones.

[Ivysaurtrainer]

I really hope they re-balance all of the Pokemon's stats/moves/abilities to make them all fair. alot of them are too over powered like garchomp compared to parasect or persian. you should be able to you any pokemon you want in a battle and have a chance if you are skillful.

I also hope they take away ridiculous items like choice band and berries, the game has become to item focused and it detracts from the pokemon themselves

[A Fhaol Bhig]

Hey guys, just a quick question. I didn't want to go through all these pages but I was wondering if someone could sum up the whole "Light" element argument and what proof if any was shown for this?

Originally Posted by Fat Ivysaurtrainer

I really hope they re-balance all of the Pokemon's stats/moves/abilities to make them all fair. alot of them are too over powered like garchomp compared to parasect or persian. you should be able to you any pokemon you want in a battle and have a chance if you are skillful.

I also hope they take away ridiculous items like choice band and berries, the game has become to item focused and it detracts from the pokemon themselves

Uh no.
Every Pokemon, good or bad is unique. If you do that you take that uniqueness away. Part of Pokemon is finding the strengths in each one. Parasect has a lot of problems, but when used correctly it can stall entire teams. It doesn't make him amazing at everything, but if you made it as good as Garchomp why would you use him at all since all the other 648 pokemon would be just as good?

Color Change is an ability worth testing out in competitive on a pokemon with competitive stats. Kecleon isn't that pokemon.

Funny, I once Tricked a iron ball onto a skarmory, predicted the switch to Tryannitar and focus punched it with a Fighting GEM for the OHKO and then mirror coated a hippowdon's SR.

Originally Posted by Fat labarith

Sarcasm w/o the sarcasm tag. Aren't you clever.

You're the best person ever. Not invert that.

Sarcasm without the sarcasm tag. Aren't you clever.

He's allowed his opinion, no matter how wrong you or I may think it may be. Maybe try not being a frigging douchebag and try to explain your position in a way that doesn't make you sound arrogant? Also, it's NOW not "NOT"

Originally Posted by Fat Ivysaurtrainer

exactly! it makes it so no one type dominates like it is now, and every Pokemon is more balanced. I'm not saying they all have to be exactly equal, just mostly equal. and Sweeping needs to go to, If someone can beat me just because they use dragon dance or have a broken item like choice band then that makes the game no fun

No, that's the thing though. Everything has something you can do to balance it or counter it. Especially DD. So that's not really a valid line of thought in my opinion.

[labarith]

Originally Posted by Fat Ivysaurtrainer

I really hope they re-balance all of the Pokemon's stats/moves/abilities to make them all fair. alot of them are too over powered like garchomp compared to parasect or persian. you should be able to you any pokemon you want in a battle and have a chance if you are skillful.

I also hope they take away ridiculous items like choice band and berries, the game has become to item focused and it detracts from the pokemon themselves

Sarcasm w/o the sarcasm tag. Aren't you clever.

You're the best person ever. Not invert that.

[Ivysaurtrainer]

Originally Posted by Fat Yveltal

Then you can go play Geomon.
A type balancing wouldn't make sense! Some attributes are just meant to be better in terms of compatibility. if everything only had six other attributes to compare it to, nothing would mean anything. at that point, we'd be relying on the individual stats of each pokemon, and sweeping would become less common.

exactly! it makes it so no one type dominates like it is now, and every Pokemon is more balanced. I'm not saying they all have to be exactly equal, just mostly equal. and Sweeping needs to go to, If someone can beat me just because they use dragon dance or have a broken item like choice band then that makes the game no fun

[Ivysaurtrainer]

Originally Posted by Fat A Fhaol Bhig

Uh no.
Every Pokemon, good or bad is unique. If you do that you take that uniqueness away. Part of Pokemon is finding the strengths in each one. Parasect has a lot of problems, but when used correctly it can stall entire teams. It doesn't make him amazing at everything, but if you made it as good as Garchomp why would you use him at all since all the other 648 pokemon would be just as good?

Im not saying make them all really strong attackers, im saying make them all useful. I can tell that they already try to do this but they need to buff up some less used pokemon a little

[Yveltal]

Originally Posted by Fat labarith

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Kecleon

440 with a speed of 40! 40! For crying out loud, it's like they didn't even bother to playtest it.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Sceptile
90 BST points higher and still doesn't see OU play reliably.

Now either you vastly overrate Color Change, or you think of Kecleon as a trick room or sucker punch pokemon. Neither of which is particularly supported by any metagame I know of.

Color Change is an ability worth testing out in competitive on a pokemon with competitive stats. Kecleon isn't that pokemon.

Color Change could be a relatively neat foil for Choiced pokemon. Or if non-Dragon Outrage variants become popular, a foil for those. But on pathetic mr. 440...

For crying out loud, outside of Rotom's forms, which of these pokemon have you actually played with or against recently:
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wi...t_total_of_440

Well since you're being snarky, I'll be honest. I think rotom is a fugly Megaman ripoff.
Furthermore, I've played against/with most everything recently except for Solrock, Lunatone and Vigoroth. Haven't seen them around...
I'm actually training a Keckleon for funsies in my BW2. BUT since it does work as a trick room supporter, that's what mine's going to be in the end. I only said what I did because Keckleon simply lacks the ability to do any good, regardless of it's high special defense. Since the ability to change it's defenses is all it really has going for it, I don' know why Game Freak would want to start turning him out into a fierce creature worthy of RU or UU status by Smogons rules.

FURTHERMORE!

Originally Posted by Fat Ivysaurtrainer

exactly! it makes it so no one type dominates like it is now, and every Pokemon is more balanced. I'm not saying they all have to be exactly equal, just mostly equal. and Sweeping needs to go to, If someone can beat me just because they use dragon dance or have a broken item like choice band then that makes the game no fun

You don't use dragon dance and choice items?

[Ivysaurtrainer]

It would be cool if every move had a certain speed stat and who goes first would be a combination of the pokemons speed stat and the moves speed stat.

It would require a huge amount of strategy to play with this implemented, you would consider weaker faster moves and have to think situationally instead of picking the most powerfull moves like it is now.

What does everyone think of this idea?

[R_N]

Seeing Lunatone in the 440 list reminds me of the biggest thing I want changed in XY:
Increased rates of holding items

Even with Compound eyes, it's ridiculous trying to steal things like Evolution Stones or certain berries or what have you.

In addition, I would like more Pokemon to hold items.

[Yveltal]

Originally Posted by Fat A Fhaol Bhig

Hey guys, just a quick question. I didn't want to go through all these pages but I was wondering if someone could sum up the whole "Light" element argument and what proof if any was shown for this?

Something was posted on 2chan stating that there would be some pokemon introduced that are of the "saint" attribute (along with the introduction of the "sound" attribute).

This got everyone in a tizzy and resparked talk of the longed-for light attribute. However as sensible people know, just because something was posted on a japanese forum doesn't make it any more true than anything posted on any other forum until proven otherwise via official means of revelation by Game Freak, Nintendo, or CoroCoro to a slightly lesser extent.


FURTHERMORE!

Originally Posted by Fat Ivysaurtrainer

It would be cool if every move had a certain speed stat and who goes first would be a combination of the pokemons speed stat and the moves speed stat.

It would require a huge amount of strategy to play with this implemented, you would consider weaker faster moves and have to think situationally instead of picking the most powerfull moves like it is now.

What does everyone think of this idea?

It may fry the brains of five year old players when they're fussing over why their Espeons high speed isn't enough to use psychic before the opponents pignite uses flame charge for the first time in the battle. And it's kind of a drastic addition.

[Ivysaurtrainer]

Originally Posted by Fat Yveltal

You don't use dragon dance and choice items?

I do but only because I have to keep up with everyone else. It would be nice if I could just use a greater variety of move sets instead of just using the most Overpowered ones becasue if I dont ill loose

[cam877]

Well, gee I think they should stop making new games and remake some old ones. I, being 14, grew up on emerald, and would love to see a remake of that. I also grew up on FRLG, and that story was undoubtedly the best. I'm going to try to get the original red version game and an original game boy so I can play the original red.

[Satisfaction]

The problem with a r/s/e remake seems to be theres really nothing it can offer at this point. Red and Green were remade because they like gold and silver were not compatable with the gba. However, since then none of the new generations had compatability issues if you want houen pokemon nothings stopping you from using the current r/s/e game. Furthermore the only thing a remake could possibly offer is the expansion of dream world pokemon, but most mons from houen already have theirs, and all that we'd get out of it would probably be shadow tag chandelure and contrary serperior, which is something that would have been released to the dream world eventually anyway. As far as moves having their own speed, we do have priority as well as weaker moves with better effects than stronger moves, and if your worried about set up sweepers we also have nu mons that are great checks to them namely ditto whose the best check in the game for set up offensive sweepers like the common dder

[A Fhaol Bhig]

Originally Posted by Fat Yveltal

Something was posted on 2chan stating that there would be some pokemon introduced that are of the "saint" attribute (along with the introduction of the "sound" attribute).

This got everyone in a tizzy and resparked talk of the longed-for light attribute. However as sensible people know, just because something was posted on a japanese forum doesn't make it any more true than anything posted on any other forum until proven otherwise via official means of revelation by Game Freak, Nintendo, or CoroCoro to a slightly lesser extent.

Oh, I figured it wasn't true I just wanted the backround info. GF really only introduced steel and dark to balance out psychic anyways. It's fine as it is right now.

[Emperor]

So I was watching through a few podcasts on the trailer/game news and I came across this potential find. Searched through this topic and I don't think anyone's mentioned this yet...

...

---

The Girl Character's Hair seems to be completely different in these two shots. In the running shot, it's in a bun and in the gym shot it seems to be more separated. You can't really tell because the girl never stops running but it does seem to provide hints that character customization could be a thing .-.

[keleyeemoh]

Originally Posted by Fat Majestic Electric

Doubt it. Gen 5 got rid of the ???-type.

That was supposed to be a joke. Oh well.

[Yveltal]

Originally Posted by Fat Emperor

So I was watching through a few podcasts on the trailer/game news and I came across this potential find. Searched through this topic and I don't think anyone's mentioned this yet...

...

---

The Girl Character's Hair seems to be completely different in these two shots. In the running shot, it's in a bun and in the gym shot it seems to be more separated. You can't really tell because the girl never stops running but it does seem to provide hints that character customization could be a thing .-.

Uhmmm unless you've never seen a bun before, I don't know what you're looking at
http://7beautytips.com/diy-hair-bun/ these are buns

Her hair is tied at the very end with a scrunchie and hangs loosely down to the bottom of her skirt at all times, judging by the pictures.
It works a little more like low-ties in womens hair styles.


This isn't to say that character customization isn't a possibility! Just that you had a bad example.
May I add my own two cents by saying that character cust. is pretty much fine where it is. you can choose your trainer class for wireless connectivity purposes, which is all that should matter. it's functionaly and actually works to suit the game's wireless purposes

[Ivysaurtrainer]

Yes, character customization is a must! I am so sick of looking the same, like everyone else

[CountBleck]

Originally Posted by Fat Emperor

So I was watching through a few podcasts on the trailer/game news and I came across this potential find. Searched through this topic and I don't think anyone's mentioned this yet...

...

---

The Girl Character's Hair seems to be completely different in these two shots. In the running shot, it's in a bun and in the gym shot it seems to be more separated. You can't really tell because the girl never stops running but it does seem to provide hints that character customization could be a thing .-.

It's rather difficult to tell since the pictures are from different angles... it could very easily be the same hair style.

Edit: I'm stupid ignore this post

[Mario With Lasers]

http://www.kimikogaming.net/pokemon-...endary-dragon/

That in-game tree bit sounded too far-fetched to me, but the Xerneas/stags parallel bought me. Hell, Yggdrasil's stags have branch-like horns and jewels on them. That's ridiculously alike Xerneas.

[Blazen]

Originally Posted by Fat Ivysaurtrainer

I do but only because I have to keep up with everyone else. It would be nice if I could just use a greater variety of move sets instead of just using the most Overpowered ones becasue if I dont ill loose

Just quoted this to reply to everything you've been saying.

1. One of the things that made Pokemon great is that it was one of the few games where types aren't all a set thing. Most games either have a straight rock paper scissors thing (Fire beats Earth beats Air beats Water beats Fire), and others have opposites (Water and Fire beat each other). Giving each type it's own unique traits allows for a more diverse game. Ice and Fire are terrible defensively, but are two of the best attacking types in the game. Meanwhile, Steel is a super awesome wall, but there's a reason the only commonly used Steel moves are Bullet Punch, and Iron Head.

2. All Pokemon are not created equal. They shouldn't be. You get Butterfree in under 20 minutes. It should not be on the same level as the Dragonite that took hours, or days to obtain. This doesn't mean that you can't use Butterfree though. That's the whole point of lower tiers in Smogon. So that you can use your Butterfree against Pokemon on the same level without having to worry about your opponent bringing in Dragonite to ruin your day. Sure, you can use lower tier Pokes in higher tiers, and some people have found success in doing so. Just realize that everybody is playing to win.

3. Another problem with trying to even out stats is that stats aren't the only important thing. Typing, abilities, and move pools are all important factors. Smeargle, or Sableye with Garchomp level stats would just break the meta game even further.

4. You don't have to use the sets listed. Just like I said in part 2, people have found success trying things that no one considered before. Try out different sets and see what happens. You will most likely end up with more wins than losses, but the point of the game is to have fun. If you only have fun when you win, then stick with the movesets, and Pokemon that are in your chosen tier. If your idea of fun is trying out a new gimmick set on a rarely seen Pokemon, then don't worry about your win/loss ratio.

[labarith]

Originally Posted by Fat Blazen

Just quoted this to reply to everything you've been saying.

1. One of the things that made Pokemon great is that it was one of the few games where types aren't all a set thing. Most games either have a straight rock paper scissors thing (Fire beats Earth beats Air beats Water beats Fire), and others have opposites (Water and Fire beat each other). Giving each type it's own unique traits allows for a more diverse game. Ice and Fire are terrible defensively, but are two of the best attacking types in the game. Meanwhile, Steel is a super awesome wall, but there's a reason the only commonly used Steel moves are Bullet Punch, and Iron Head.

2. All Pokemon are not created equal. They shouldn't be. You get Butterfree in under 20 minutes. It should not be on the same level as the Dragonite that took hours, or days to obtain. This doesn't mean that you can't use Butterfree though. That's the whole point of lower tiers in Smogon. So that you can use your Butterfree against Pokemon on the same level without having to worry about your opponent bringing in Dragonite to ruin your day. Sure, you can use lower tier Pokes in higher tiers, and some people have found success in doing so. Just realize that everybody is playing to win.

3. Another problem with trying to even out stats is that stats aren't the only important thing. Typing, abilities, and move pools are all important factors. Smeargle, or Sableye with Garchomp level stats would just break the meta game even further.

4. You don't have to use the sets listed. Just like I said in part 2, people have found success trying things that no one considered before. Try out different sets and see what happens. You will most likely end up with more wins than losses, but the point of the game is to have fun. If you only have fun when you win, then stick with the movesets, and Pokemon that are in your chosen tier. If your idea of fun is trying out a new gimmick set on a rarely seen Pokemon, then don't worry about your win/loss ratio.

I agree with these points, more or less, but I 2 is worth disagreeing with in some sense:
BST600 are strong, but that doesn't make them better than other pokemon. Movesets/abilities matter. Butterfree, Beedrill, Parasect, etc. can use a bit of a niche. Butterfree has a psuedo-spore, access to quiver dance, and a useful immunity. With a little bit of fidgetting, preferably with movepool or ability (or just by making stealth rocks less dominant, like wifi 3 on 3 battles have), it becomes good. Will it ever play the same role as Dragonite? No. But neither will Metagross, or Infernape, or Starmie.

It'd be nice if everything had a niche or two. But you don't do that by changing base stats... if you're going to do that, just give us an evolution and be done with it.

And on a completely different note:
We need a "Attack/Special attack boosting" Evolite variant. Give under evolved pokemon another chance to shine, like Chansey has!

[CountBleck]

Oh just excuse me I'm a moron. I was thinking that we couldn't see the back of the forward facing protagonist girl's hair and that it could be the same braid but I only just realized that she just has the two parts to each side. My bad I'm stupid. Your point is completely valid Yvetal.

Anyway alternate hairstyles would definitely be a plus

[Yveltal]

Originally Posted by Fat CountBleck

Oh just excuse me I'm a moron. I was thinking that we couldn't see the back of the forward facing protagonist girl's hair and that it could be the same braid but I only just realized that she just has the two parts to each side. My bad I'm stupid. Your point is completely valid Yvetal.

Anyway alternate hairstyles would definitely be a plus

The shade of it all.
I didn't mean to make you feel stupid, hun. it's just a perception issue, like when WPM kept posting on Pokebeach how he thought Xerneas had heterochromia.