Prio Please! (Currently 1810 on PS)

Takion · Jan 12th, 2013, 7:13:00 AM

Hey Smogonites!

I joined here just over a month ago and with your help I was able to make a team thats doing decently well on the ladder. I am hoping you guys can continue to help me out! With the heavy usage in weather, I decided to be a complete hipster and build a team without it. Now this isn't Anti-Meta, but a team built to not only have success in weather but beat the rogue teams that are randomly faced. Without further due here we go:

Team at a Glance

Team Building Process:

It all started with Lucario, my favorite Pokemon. I was determined to build a team with him. His priority moves allow him to be a sweeper, while after a swords dance he can basically break any wall. Very few pokemon can actually walk in on a close combat and laugh it off.

Instead of thinking logically about choosing a team mate that could cover Lucario's weaknesses and provide great synergy with, I decided to go with the king of priority. This allowed me to worry less about my sweepers speed.

Now what I had was two Steel Pokemon that could be demolished by a fire pokemon. I needed a counter bad, and thats where Heatran came in.

Deo-D, Hazards are absoluetly necessary. Every little damage matters, and thats to this legendary's bulk, I'm able to lay down stealth rocks along with spike.

Spin Blocking is a must on this team, if those hazards get away it could be a difference between a loss or a win. Gengars clutch offense was what I needed.

I didn't want to stop at Lucario, and Scizor. I wanted MOAR. This is where Dragonite came in.

Kingdra. I was having troubles with Keldeo and Specs Politoed, not to mention was in need of a special sweeper. Kingdra was the answer and havent looked back. Sorry Heatran!

In-Depth Analysis

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Proof of Rating

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Importables

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With that being said. I really appreciate any help, comments, suggestions! Enjoy the RMT!

Alexander. · Jan 12th, 2013, 7:38:03 AM

Hello, I got your PM.

Looking at your team, it seems very solid anyway I have some advice so let's start with the rate!

First of all, on Scizor I suggest you to use Bug Bite, replacing U-Turn. You haven't other U-Turn or Volt Switch users so I think U-Turn is quite a useless move in your team because when you'll use U-Turn you'll probably lose Sword Dance's boost without have any advantage. Then, on Gengar I'd change Thunderbolt into Destiny Bond. Thunderbolt isn't a good move on Choice Scarf Gengar because you'll use more Shadow Ball and Focus Blast because they form a very very good coverage. Destiny Bond otherwise can be useful to revenge-kill pokèmon that Gengar can't revenge-kill, Keldeo after one Calm Mind for example. Finally, I'd use Fire Punch, replacing Earthquake on Dragonite. Jirachi and Heatran aren't a big problem for your team because it has Heatran. Ferrothorn and Skarmory otherwise can be problematic because they can put entry hazards which you can't remove so I think that Fire Punch is better than Earthquake in this team.

That's all I had to say about your team. I hope I helped, good luck!

Neliel · Jan 12th, 2013, 8:42:24 AM

Hey :3

im one of the best fan of the lucario/scizor offensive core, so ill give you some suggestions. First, i strongly recommend you to use Destiny bond on gengar somewhere, why you may ask? Destiny bond is your only move that can ko any spinner regardless what they do, and since this is the main role of gengar on deo-d offense teams, you should really run it. Not only it kills spinners because they are forced to attack you, but also destiny bond can come in handy to revenge kill any stuff in a pinch. I would probably use destiny bond over thunderbolt since thunderbolt doesnt have too much to offer to the coverage bar revenge kill gyarados, which isnt even that common, while hidden power ice revenge kills dragons and kos Gliscor and landorus (a pain for Lucario) but if you feel like thunderbolt is needed to hit Tornadus-t, you may want to use thunder at this point, so just experiment while you test them.

Now i havent seen heatran that much in this type of teams, because it doesnt really fits in heavy offense teams with his overall bad speed and the lack of setup moves. I also think that your team really suffers rain teams, having a single pokemon that resists water is very danger, because a simple specstoed can heavily damage everything in your team and then a scarf keldeo can just do a kill every time it switchs in. I would probably switch heatran with something else that take care of rain while still mantains his offensive presence, i honestly would put a dragon dance Kindgra here. How it works is simple, if you can do a single dragon dance and you have already eliminated ferrothorn you have probably won the game against rain teams. The reason i think the dragon dance set is better here rather then the specs one, is because dragon dance kindgra can actually do something else if rain isnt up, his speed its not the best but it can work sometimes. I would go with the standard set Waterfall / Outrage / Dragon Dance / Rest with a chesto berry. Chesto berry helps you dealing with Sub toxic cruel or Bulky politoed, being able to heal the status and to recover your hp.

At this point i think you can put something else over earthquake on Dragonite. Earthquake is a really poor choice when you can use other moves like Waterfall, Superpower or Fire punch. Now since Dd kingra can setup on jirachi thanks to chesto berry, and you want ferrothorn killed to sweep with kindgra, you should put Superpower instead of Earthquake. This, not only will let you hit Ferrothorn under rain, but also Heatran, and in general it gives you a better coverage. You are probably thinking that the atk drop of superpower will ruin this set, but i must say no. First, since you can actually hit more things with superpower you dont need that much lum berry to avoid the confusion, because more often than not superpower+1 in enough to kill some things and you dont have to do outrage every time. What i think you can use instead is life orb, because with it you wont notice the lack of the +1, outrage still hits hard even with +0 and extreme speed really likes the added power of life orb. Also, since kindgra is already able to dealing with status, i dont think you need to use lum berry. Just a note, this is the damage against ferrothorn with +1 life orb superpower:
403 Atk (+1) VS 352 Def and 352 HP (120 Base Power): 386 - 455 (109.65% - 129.26%)
And this is what earthquake did before:
403 Atk (+1) VS 352 Def and 352 HP (100 Base Power): 161 - 190 (45.73% - 53.97%)
As you can see, its an huge difference. Also if you dont believe me outrage is still strong without boosts, here is the calc of outrage against tornadus-t:
403 Atk VS 196 Def and 299 HP (180 Base Power): 345 - 406 (115.38% - 135.78%)
Lastly, this is the damage of life orb extremespeed+1, against things that are supposed to revenge kill you like Scarf latios:
403 Atk (+1) VS 196 Def and 301 HP (80 Base Power): 231 - 272 (76.74% - 90.36%)

Last, but not least, i think you can use something else in place of leftovers on scizor. Leftovers is just the worst option in offensive teams, because it doesnt really matter if you recover or not with leftovers but only if you do enough damages to sweep. I think you can put Metal coat over leftovers if you dont like the recoil of life orb, at least its better to power up your priority move.
You can find the list of changes below. I hope i helped you and gl!

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Shining Latios · Jan 12th, 2013, 12:21:26 PM

Hi, cool offensive team you have here. The most glaring weakness to your team is opposing rain teams, without a doubt. For this reason, I agree with Neliel Tu Oderschvank on changing Heatran into Kingdra. Kingdra can take advantage of opposing rain and thoroughly crush your enemy because of Swift Swim. With that said, I suggest taking the 4 Special Defensive EVs you have on Scizor and put them into Speed. It might not seem like a drastic change, but in case you are in a situation against another Scizor with no speed investments, you will be able to outspeed. Hope I helped.

Takion · Jan 12th, 2013, 12:35:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Alexander.

Hello, I got your PM.

Looking at your team, it seems very solid anyway I have some advice so let's start with the rate!

First of all, on Scizor I suggest you to use Bug Bite, replacing U-Turn. You haven't other U-Turn or Volt Switch users so I think U-Turn is quite a useless move in your team because when you'll use U-Turn you'll probably lose Sword Dance's boost without have any advantage. Then, on Gengar I'd change Thunderbolt into Destiny Bond. Thunderbolt isn't a good move on Choice Scarf Gengar because you'll use more Shadow Ball and Focus Blast because they form a very very good coverage. Destiny Bond otherwise can be useful to revenge-kill pokèmon that Gengar can't revenge-kill, Keldeo after one Calm Mind for example. Finally, I'd use Fire Punch, replacing Earthquake on Dragonite. Jirachi and Heatran aren't a big problem for your team because it has Heatran. Ferrothorn and Skarmory otherwise can be problematic because they can put entry hazards which you can't remove so I think that Fire Punch is better than Earthquake in this team.

That's all I had to say about your team. I hope I helped, good luck!

Once again, thanks man. The Destiny Bond is a GREAT idea, and will also test the Fire Punch!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Neliel Tu Oderschvank

Hey :3

im one of the best fan of the lucario/scizor offensive core, so ill give you some suggestions. First, i strongly recommend you to use Destiny bond on gengar somewhere, why you may ask? Destiny bond is your only move that can ko any spinner regardless what they do, and since this is the main role of gengar on deo-d offense teams, you should really run it. Not only it kills spinners because they are forced to attack you, but also destiny bond can come in handy to revenge kill any stuff in a pinch. I would probably use destiny bond over thunderbolt since thunderbolt doesnt have too much to offer to the coverage bar revenge kill gyarados, which isnt even that common, while hidden power ice revenge kills dragons and kos Gliscor and landorus (a pain for Lucario) but if you feel like thunderbolt is needed to hit Tornadus-t, you may want to use thunder at this point, so just experiment while you test them.

Now i havent seen heatran that much in this type of teams, because it doesnt really fits in heavy offense teams with his overall bad speed and the lack of setup moves. I also think that your team really suffers rain teams, having a single pokemon that resists water is very danger, because a simple specstoed can heavily damage everything in your team and then a scarf keldeo can just do a kill every time it switchs in. I would probably switch heatran with something else that take care of rain while still mantains his offensive presence, i honestly would put a dragon dance Kindgra here. How it works is simple, if you can do a single dragon dance and you have already eliminated ferrothorn you have probably won the game against rain teams. The reason i think the dragon dance set is better here rather then the specs one, is because dragon dance kindgra can actually do something else if rain isnt up, his speed its not the best but it can work sometimes. I would go with the standard set Waterfall / Outrage / Dragon Dance / Rest with a chesto berry. Chesto berry helps you dealing with Sub toxic cruel or Bulky politoed, being able to heal the status and to recover your hp.

At this point i think you can put something else over earthquake on Dragonite. Earthquake is a really poor choice when you can use other moves like Waterfall, Superpower or Fire punch. Now since Dd kingra can setup on jirachi thanks to chesto berry, and you want ferrothorn killed to sweep with kindgra, you should put Superpower instead of Earthquake. This, not only will let you hit Ferrothorn under rain, but also Heatran, and in general it gives you a better coverage. You are probably thinking that the atk drop of superpower will ruin this set, but i must say no. First, since you can actually hit more things with superpower you dont need that much lum berry to avoid the confusion, because more often than not superpower+1 in enough to kill some things and you dont have to do outrage every time. What i think you can use instead is life orb, because with it you wont notice the lack of the +1, outrage still hits hard even with +0 and extreme speed really likes the added power of life orb. Also, since kindgra is already able to dealing with status, i dont think you need to use lum berry. Just a note, this is the damage against ferrothorn with +1 life orb superpower:
403 Atk (+1) VS 352 Def and 352 HP (120 Base Power): 386 - 455 (109.65% - 129.26%)
And this is what earthquake did before:
403 Atk (+1) VS 352 Def and 352 HP (100 Base Power): 161 - 190 (45.73% - 53.97%)
As you can see, its an huge difference. Also if you dont believe me outrage is still strong without boosts, here is the calc of outrage against tornadus-t:
403 Atk VS 196 Def and 299 HP (180 Base Power): 345 - 406 (115.38% - 135.78%)
Lastly, this is the damage of life orb extremespeed+1, against things that are supposed to revenge kill you like Scarf latios:
403 Atk (+1) VS 196 Def and 301 HP (80 Base Power): 231 - 272 (76.74% - 90.36%)

Last, but not least, i think you can use something else in place of leftovers on scizor. Leftovers is just the worst option in offensive teams, because it doesnt really matter if you recover or not with leftovers but only if you do enough damages to sweep. I think you can put Metal coat over leftovers if you dont like the recoil of life orb, at least its better to power up your priority move.
You can find the list of changes below. I hope i helped you and gl!

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Hey dude! Thanks for the rate and it makes me happy that there are other Lucario and Scizor core fans!

Now Life Orb on Dnite, wouldn't that hurt his ability? I mean the multiscale would be broken hey? I will definitly test it though hey!

The superpower idea was genius, and will test that out!

On switching Heatran for Kingdra, I see my issues with Keldeo and Politoed, but would that change note make me more prone to teams outside of rain? for example, the sunny day users? I'll give it a shot, you know what your talking about!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Shining Latios

Hi, cool offensive team you have here. The most glaring weakness to your team is opposing rain teams, without a doubt. For this reason, I agree with Neliel Tu Oderschvank on changing Heatran into Kingdra. Kingdra can take advantage of opposing rain and thoroughly crush your enemy because of Swift Swim. With that said, I suggest taking the 4 Special Defensive EVs you have on Scizor and put them into Speed. It might not seem like a drastic change, but in case you are in a situation against another Scizor with no speed investments, you will be able to outspeed. Hope I helped.

Hey man thanks for the rate! I definitly will give Kingdra a shot, and thats a smart idea on the investments in speed, clever. Thanks mate!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Sayonara

Hello, you seem a bit weak to Jellicent, especially since Lucario, Scizor, Heatran and Deoxys-D can't do much against it, and a Gengar with a choiced item isn't a really ideal counter to Jellicent. To help with this, I would recommend Crunch over Bullet Punch on Lucario. You already have Bullet Punch priority from Scizor to help beat Terrakion, so it isn't really needed. Also, I agree with Alexander that you should use Bug Bite over U-Turn on Scizor, to prevent that your boosts go to waste. Also agreeing that Destiny Bond is a better option than Thunderbolt on Choice Scarf Gengar, as you can use in a last-ditch attempt to get rid of a fast key opponent like Nasty Plot Thundurus-T or get rid of Tentacruel trying to spin away your hazards. Cool team, and good luck.

Thanks for the rate mate!

I definitly will add D.Bond!

It seems like your correct, so Ill give it a shot bro!

Mr. Green · Jan 12th, 2013, 1:02:16 PM

Hi, there

I guess that's a HO in which the strategy is that Deoxys-S the square Hazards, Gengar ago by Spin-Blocker and Thunderbolt hurts Tentacruel, Lucario, Scizor and Dragonite are the Sweeper and Heatran covers from heat.
However, I have some changes to be proposed, for example, Scizor Offensive Swords Dancer, since to do much damage as possible you should use it with Life Orb> Leftovers, then instead of Superpower maybe you could try Brick Break, for the simple fact that when you attack with Superpower consumption part boost that you put just using Swords Dance.
For Gengar as an option over Destiny Bond, you can also try Thunder, which does more harm to Tentacruel under Rain, who will certainly try to remove the Hazards that you have placed. Of Dragonite, to increase damage when you attack you may try Life Orb> Lum Berry. That is all.
Good luck, with your team!

tl;dr

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Neliel · Jan 12th, 2013, 1:07:18 PM

Yeah, you are probably more weak to sun teams but, a well builded sun doesnt care much about heatran anyway (they always have random eqs or just dugtrio) and kindgra can still attempt a sweep under sun because it resists fire x4 and its stab outrage isnt weakened. You should also note that sun teams rarely carry more than one steel, so if you can weaken the steel with Dragonite kindgra isnt that useless.
Also just saying, rain is waay more used so i think you should be prepared better for what is more used.
As for dragonite, you will probably have your multiscale broken in the turn you do dragon dance, so its not that problematic.

Novaray · Jan 12th, 2013, 2:09:30 PM

Hi Takion

This is a pretty solid Deoxys-D Hyper Offense team you have here. I think you have a strong core of breakers that can effectively wear down your opponent. I also like the Pokemon Conquest sprites a lot! Now as previously mentioned to are a bit weak to Rain teams. Things like Tornadus-T and Keldeo can really give your team troubles. Scarf Gengar can outspeed both but he is very frail and struggles against other things on rain teams such as Jirachi and Ferrothorn. To help with your weakness to Rain teams as well as maintaining your offensive presence I suggest replacing Heatran with a Life Orb Kingdra with a moveset of Rain Dance / Hydro Pump / Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse. Kingdra is one of the best checks to Rain teams due to him having his Speed doubled through Swift Swim. If Rain isn't up, he can easily set it up himself, activating Swift Swim and boosting Hydro Pump. Kingdra can easily take the Fire type attacks that you are currently using Heatran to take due to his 4x resistance and he also has a 4x resistance to Water. Hwatran is also an odd fit on an HO team due to his middling speed and doesn't really have the potential to sweep without a Choice Scarf. Dragon and Water type attacks are the only ones used on the Kingdra set because they provide good neutral coverage with each other and even resistances don't enjoy taking Rain-boosted Hydro Pumps. Kingdra packs Rain Dance himself to increase his Speed if the opponent is not running a Rain team and it also helps mitigate Scizor's Fire weakness slightly.

Now for some smaller changes. On Scizor, I recommend Roost over U-turn. With your bulky set, Scizor can easily take hits then heal off damage with Roost. This allows to get more Swords Dance boosts under your belt, allowing you to sweep more easily. U-turn is not hitting much that Bullet Punch and Superpower cannot already hit and it forces you to lose your boosts. Also with an HO team, you don't want to be switching around too often as you often would be better off sacrificing something then switching it out due to the fragility of your Pokemon. As Shining_Latios also mentioned, moving 4 Special Defense EVs into Speed allows you to outrun the Scizors that don't have any Speed investment. Lastly, you could try Superpower on Dragonite over Earthquake. Superpower allows you to hit both Heatran and Ferrothorn hard and without it, Ferrothorn can give you some trouble if it has Gyro Ball and could stop your sweep.

Hope I helped and good luck with your team!

Set:

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tl;dr

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victini493RMT · Jan 12th, 2013, 3:02:33 PM

Hi. Nice team!

As Neliel Tu Oderschvank and Sayonara stated, you are a little weak to Rain Offense, and Jellicent. I like the idea of DD Chesto Berry Kingdra over Heatran, but that doesn't take Hurricanes and Secret Swords too well, meaning you'd have to sacrifice something to switch it in freely. I think Rotom-W would be a nice fit on this team because it beats non Toxic Jellicent, Landorus-T, Skarmory, and Gliscor 1v1, and avoids a 2HKO from Scarfed Keldeo's Secret Sword/Hydro Pump(in Rain), and can sponge attacks from Tornadus-T and can grab momentum. It also helps you bring a sweeper in for free. The Defense EV's also ensure that you won't be 2HKO'd by Mamoswine's Superpower after Stealth Rock, from full HP. Rest can be used on this set, with a Chesto Berry, for reliable recovery, and would beat Toxic Stalling Gliscor easier.

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers/Chesto Berry
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 156 Def / 104 SDef
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split/Rest

Sciztar · Jan 13th, 2013, 1:51:01 PM

Hey Takion, i would like to chime in on the Life Orb Kingdra since I've used Kingdra alot in BW2. I don't agree with Novaray EVs on Kingdra. The EVs I recommend is 40 HP / 240 SpA / 228 Spe This is the best set for Kingdra, b/c with 40HP you have a nice Life Orb number and a nice switch in number for Stealth Rock and Spikes. Also you don't need 252 EVs in your speed, because all you need is 228 in your speed to out speed Choice Scarf Latios in the rain which is the best benchmark. Now I would not suggest using Dragon Pulse on Kingdra, Ice Beam is better for Kingdra. With Ice Beam you are able to hit the Genes with 100% accuracy. With Hydro Pump's shaky accuracy to hit the genes in the rain, Ice Beam gives you that 100% to KO Tornadus-t, THundurus-T, and Landorus-T.

Here is the set
Kingdra (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 40HP / 240 SAtk / 228 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
-Rain Dance
-Hydro Pump
-Draco Meteor
-Ice Beam

Hoped I helped and Luvdisc

Chimpakt · Jan 13th, 2013, 6:43:27 PM

Like previous users have said, you struggle a bit against rain teams. Heatran is the most susceptible to them, so I suggest you replace it with a Latios. Latios can check sun teams relatively well and matches up great against rain teams. Latios has excellent coverage and can break stall relatively well with strong Draco Meteors and Psyshock to hit special walls. Latios may make you more vulnerable to tyranitar, but with Deoxys and Gengar, Tyranitar may not be healthy enough to pursuit trap your Latios.

Additionally, I would test out Skill Swap over Taunt or Magic Coat on Deoxys. With Gengar on your team you don't have to worry about maintaining your hazards against rapid spinners, but Magic Bounce users could be annoying to deal with. Volcarona on a sun team could provide some problems and getting up Rocks against Xatu or Espeon will help combat that threat.

latios

Hope I helped and good luck.

Takion · Jan 14th, 2013, 3:05:04 AM

Hey guys, sorry for the lack of responses, Ill get to it right away!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Neliel Tu Oderschvank

Yeah, you are probably more weak to sun teams but, a well builded sun doesnt care much about heatran anyway (they always have random eqs or just dugtrio) and kindgra can still attempt a sweep under sun because it resists fire x4 and its stab outrage isnt weakened. You should also note that sun teams rarely carry more than one steel, so if you can weaken the steel with Dragonite kindgra isnt that useless.
Also just saying, rain is waay more used so i think you should be prepared better for what is more used.
As for dragonite, you will probably have your multiscale broken in the turn you do dragon dance, so its not that problematic.

So far Kingdra has done wonderfully. Sun teams after ninetales has been taken care would spell gg when kingdra switches in. Thanks for the help mate, your a champ.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Novaray

Hi Takion

This is a pretty solid Deoxys-D Hyper Offense team you have here. I think you have a strong core of breakers that can effectively wear down your opponent. I also like the Pokemon Conquest sprites a lot! Now as previously mentioned to are a bit weak to Rain teams. Things like Tornadus-T and Keldeo can really give your team troubles. Scarf Gengar can outspeed both but he is very frail and struggles against other things on rain teams such as Jirachi and Ferrothorn. To help with your weakness to Rain teams as well as maintaining your offensive presence I suggest replacing Heatran with a Life Orb Kingdra with a moveset of Rain Dance / Hydro Pump / Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse. Kingdra is one of the best checks to Rain teams due to him having his Speed doubled through Swift Swim. If Rain isn't up, he can easily set it up himself, activating Swift Swim and boosting Hydro Pump. Kingdra can easily take the Fire type attacks that you are currently using Heatran to take due to his 4x resistance and he also has a 4x resistance to Water. Hwatran is also an odd fit on an HO team due to his middling speed and doesn't really have the potential to sweep without a Choice Scarf. Dragon and Water type attacks are the only ones used on the Kingdra set because they provide good neutral coverage with each other and even resistances don't enjoy taking Rain-boosted Hydro Pumps. Kingdra packs Rain Dance himself to increase his Speed if the opponent is not running a Rain team and it also helps mitigate Scizor's Fire weakness slightly.

Now for some smaller changes. On Scizor, I recommend Roost over U-turn. With your bulky set, Scizor can easily take hits then heal off damage with Roost. This allows to get more Swords Dance boosts under your belt, allowing you to sweep more easily. U-turn is not hitting much that Bullet Punch and Superpower cannot already hit and it forces you to lose your boosts. Also with an HO team, you don't want to be switching around too often as you often would be better off sacrificing something then switching it out due to the fragility of your Pokemon. As Shining_Latios also mentioned, moving 4 Special Defense EVs into Speed allows you to outrun the Scizors that don't have any Speed investment. Lastly, you could try Superpower on Dragonite over Earthquake. Superpower allows you to hit both Heatran and Ferrothorn hard and without it, Ferrothorn can give you some trouble if it has Gyro Ball and could stop your sweep.

Hope I helped and good luck with your team!

Set:

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tl;dr

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Hey man! thanks a lot, Ive been using your suggestions and its helped. Im glad you noticed the pokemon conquest sprites, were you a fan of the game?

Do you not believe a scizor with roost would lack coverage against psychics such as espeon, and deo-d?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat victini493RMT

Hi. Nice team!

As Neliel Tu Oderschvank and Sayonara stated, you are a little weak to Rain Offense, and Jellicent. I like the idea of DD Chesto Berry Kingdra over Heatran, but that doesn't take Hurricanes and Secret Swords too well, meaning you'd have to sacrifice something to switch it in freely. I think Rotom-W would be a nice fit on this team because it beats non Toxic Jellicent, Landorus-T, Skarmory, and Gliscor 1v1, and avoids a 2HKO from Scarfed Keldeo's Secret Sword/Hydro Pump(in Rain), and can sponge attacks from Tornadus-T and can grab momentum. It also helps you bring a sweeper in for free. The Defense EV's also ensure that you won't be 2HKO'd by Mamoswine's Superpower after Stealth Rock, from full HP. Rest can be used on this set, with a Chesto Berry, for reliable recovery, and would beat Toxic Stalling Gliscor easier.

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers/Chesto Berry
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 156 Def / 104 SDef
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split/Rest

Hey dude! thanks for the unique suggestion, ill give it a shot.

Do you think perhaps a trick version would be good? as it can trick away a certain threat?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Sciztar

Hey Takion, i would like to chime in on the Life Orb Kingdra since I've used Kingdra alot in BW2. I don't agree with Novaray EVs on Kingdra. The EVs I recommend is 40 HP / 240 SpA / 228 Spe This is the best set for Kingdra, b/c with 40HP you have a nice Life Orb number and a nice switch in number for Stealth Rock and Spikes. Also you don't need 252 EVs in your speed, because all you need is 228 in your speed to out speed Choice Scarf Latios in the rain which is the best benchmark. Now I would not suggest using Dragon Pulse on Kingdra, Ice Beam is better for Kingdra. With Ice Beam you are able to hit the Genes with 100% accuracy. With Hydro Pump's shaky accuracy to hit the genes in the rain, Ice Beam gives you that 100% to KO Tornadus-t, THundurus-T, and Landorus-T.

Here is the set
Kingdra (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 40HP / 240 SAtk / 228 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
-Rain Dance
-Hydro Pump
-Draco Meteor
-Ice Beam

Hoped I helped and Luvdisc

You're a genius on the EV spread. This is what Ive been testing, and honestly its been wonderful. The only sad downfall is my luck with hydro pump...it really hurts when it misses, but thats the risk you take.

Ah sorry dude, what does Luvdiscmean?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Chimpakt

Like previous users have said, you struggle a bit against rain teams. Heatran is the most susceptible to them, so I suggest you replace it with a Latios. Latios can check sun teams relatively well and matches up great against rain teams. Latios has excellent coverage and can break stall relatively well with strong Draco Meteors and Psyshock to hit special walls. Latios may make you more vulnerable to tyranitar, but with Deoxys and Gengar, Tyranitar may not be healthy enough to pursuit trap your Latios.

Additionally, I would test out Skill Swap over Taunt or Magic Coat on Deoxys. With Gengar on your team you don't have to worry about maintaining your hazards against rapid spinners, but Magic Bounce users could be annoying to deal with. Volcarona on a sun team could provide some problems and getting up Rocks against Xatu or Espeon will help combat that threat.

latios

Hope I helped and good luck.

Ah yes! Latios, first of thank you for the unique suggestion. Ill test it, but do you think Surf maybe a better option over recover? So he does get Walled by Heatran?

Uomo Solo · Jan 15th, 2013, 2:11:56 PM

Hey dude :) I got your request, nice team, i always play HO teams, are quick, effective and easy to use.I have a similiar team, it s very interesting to use Kingdra into an Heavy Offense, to do a sort of Antimeta. Let s rate it C:

The team is pretty good against the most common Playstyles/archetype of teams, it have not big weakness, so i can only say something about your sets or Evs Spreads; the only thing that I have to notice you is that you are a bit weak to Lando-T Polisher/Double Dancer, opponents Lucario or DDGyarados that with stealth rock on the field are not so easy to stop.

These are my advices

From the moment that Sun Teams with U-Turner( for example ChoicerVictini/Landorus)+Xatu/Espeon are ever more used and you are not to effective against them, you need to set for strength. A cool idea could be to run Skill Swap>Magic Coat, that allow you to change your trait with the opponent s one, and it s useful to set Entry Hazards in evely peace, it give you an incredible advantage because often if the opponent use those pokemon, him does not use a Rapid-Spinner and although used it you have Gengar who works greatly. Skill Swap is already incredible against the hately FullBaton Pass, because if you prive opponents Espeon' trait you can taunt easily all the team untill the win.
About Scizor, I don t like yours Evs Spread, because with 252HP it have 13% Damage from entry on Stealth Rock and with only 4 Evs Speed you can t outspeed opponent s Scizor and you may be killed by some SpD Heatran, Flamethrower/Fire Blast Tyrannitar and you cannot outspeed the ever most common 0 Evs Speed SpDRotom-W that can burn you or hit harder with both his STAB moves. So my Suggestion is to try this Evs Spread: 72HP/252Atk/184Spd Adamant Nature, it allow you to outspeed it s common Switch-in like not offensive Heatran,Politoed and the ubiquitous Rotom-W with < 16 Evs in Speed. If you don t want so offensive set, you have anyway to move 4 Evs From HP to Speed, to have more switch in with Stealth Rock or Spikes on the field and you can also win 1vs1 against 4Spd Evs Opponent s Scizor. About your Item, if you want to run my offensive set, I suggest you to try Lum Berry instead of Leftovers, cause you can Boost on Scald/W-o-W without problems, and SpD Jirachi cant paralyze you and Paraflinch to death, Leftovers are pretty useless from the moment you are not running with Roost+SDance set. Alternative is Life Orb/Metal Coat, it make you a good revengekiller and with the second options (if you want to continue use U-turn) you may bluff a Choice Band Set.
I have a last suggestion for you and it s on your Gengar. Thunder is not an optional from the moment that the common Spinners are Starmie and Tentacruel and you must hit them, especially with second, because Scald cant HOKO you even with rain boost (except in case of burn+Protect) and you also can hit Flyng-Dragon such as Salamence/Dragonite without give set up to an eventually Lucario/Gyarados (common teammates of them, especially Lucario) that could 6-0 with Stealth Rock on the field. Thunder also may hit Bulky Water such as Politoed, Vaporeon, Jellicent (shadow ball to..) and so on. So let you try it over Hidden Power Ice.
For Lucario, in my opinion is better Bullet Punch than Crunch, it give you an incredible possibility to sweep opponent s team with help of Hazards. With Bullet punch you have a way to hit Gengar, an eventually ChoiceScarfTyranitar and Terrakion, this last that have certainly more usage than Slowbro/Jellicent. You have Dragonite as switch in on an eventually Jellicent, it s not the best switch but you are playing an offense team.

Hope I helped :) i m here when you want

Tl;dr

...

Takion · Jan 16th, 2013, 11:26:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Uomo Solo

Hey dude :) I got your request, nice team, i always play HO teams, are quick, effective and easy to use.I have a similiar team, it s very interesting to use Kingdra into an Heavy Offense, to do a sort of Antimeta. Let s rate it C:

The team is pretty good against the most common Playstyles/archetype of teams, it have not big weakness, so i can only say something about your sets or Evs Spreads; the only thing that I have to notice you is that you are a bit weak to Lando-T Polisher/Double Dancer, opponents Lucario or DDGyarados that with stealth rock on the field are not so easy to stop.

These are my advices

From the moment that Sun Teams with U-Turner( for example ChoicerVictini/Landorus)+Xatu/Espeon are ever more used and you are not to effective against them, you need to set for strength. A cool idea could be to run Skill Swap>Magic Coat, that allow you to change your trait with the opponent s one, and it s useful to set Entry Hazards in evely peace, it give you an incredible advantage because often if the opponent use those pokemon, him does not use a Rapid-Spinner and although used it you have Gengar who works greatly. Skill Swap is already incredible against the hately FullBaton Pass, because if you prive opponents Espeon' trait you can taunt easily all the team untill the win.
About Scizor, I don t like yours Evs Spread, because with 252HP it have 13% Damage from entry on Stealth Rock and with only 4 Evs Speed you can t outspeed opponent s Scizor and you may be killed by some SpD Heatran, Flamethrower/Fire Blast Tyrannitar and you cannot outspeed the ever most common 0 Evs Speed SpDRotom-W that can burn you or hit harder with both his STAB moves. So my Suggestion is to try this Evs Spread: 72HP/252Atk/184Spd Adamant Nature, it allow you to outspeed it s common Switch-in like not offensive Heatran,Politoed and the ubiquitous Rotom-W with < 16 Evs in Speed. If you don t want so offensive set, you have anyway to move 4 Evs From HP to Speed, to have more switch in with Stealth Rock or Spikes on the field and you can also win 1vs1 against 4Spd Evs Opponent s Scizor. About your Item, if you want to run my offensive set, I suggest you to try Lum Berry instead of Leftovers, cause you can Boost on Scald/W-o-W without problems, and SpD Jirachi cant paralyze you and Paraflinch to death, Leftovers are pretty useless from the moment you are not running with Roost+SDance set. Alternative is Life Orb/Metal Coat, it make you a good revengekiller and with the second options (if you want to continue use U-turn) you may bluff a Choice Band Set.
I have a last suggestion for you and it s on your Gengar. Thunder is not an optional from the moment that the common Spinners are Starmie and Tentacruel and you must hit them, especially with second, because Scald cant HOKO you even with rain boost (except in case of burn+Protect) and you also can hit Flyng-Dragon such as Salamence/Dragonite without give set up to an eventually Lucario/Gyarados (common teammates of them, especially Lucario) that could 6-0 with Stealth Rock on the field. Thunder also may hit Bulky Water such as Politoed, Vaporeon, Jellicent (shadow ball to..) and so on. So let you try it over Hidden Power Ice.
For Lucario, in my opinion is better Bullet Punch than Crunch, it give you an incredible possibility to sweep opponent s team with help of Hazards. With Bullet punch you have a way to hit Gengar, an eventually ChoiceScarfTyranitar and Terrakion, this last that have certainly more usage than Slowbro/Jellicent. You have Dragonite as switch in on an eventually Jellicent, it s not the best switch but you are playing an offense team.

Hope I helped :) i m here when you want

Tl;dr

...

Super helpful, thank you! I will give you an update on your suggestions once I test them on Pokemon Showdown (which is down currently)

Sciztar · Jan 17th, 2013, 1:22:11 AM

I'm actually going to disagree with Bullet Punch on Lucario. While at +2 you are able to KO Terrakion no questions asked. But you already have Scizor's Bullet Punch as a check to Terrakion have two of the same priority moves to hit the same threat is redundant. I looked at your team and you only have Gengar to really get rid of Jellicent, but the risk of a burn can be bad. Jellicent can also be a pain for Kingdra because it can sponge Kingdra's Draco Meteor and Recovery back to full health and then you'll be forced to switch out -2 Kingdra. So Crunch on Lucario is the better choice, you can hit Latios and Latias hard on the switch in.

Kidogo · Jan 17th, 2013, 1:38:57 AM

This is a cool team, congrats on your success with it. This seems pretty solid synergy-wise, so I just have a few set comments.

On Deo-d, try out a set of SR / Spikes / Taunt / Thunder Wave @ Mental Herb. Mental Herb + Taunt allows you to beat any taunter without having to predict with magic coat while freeing up a moveslot. Since you don't have red card to check set-up sweepers, try out twave instead. Deo-d can just paralyze anything trying to set up on it, which also buys it some free turns to set up hazards. Twave can also be used as many times as you want, which is another bonus over red card. I've used this deo-d set a lot, and it's my favorite by far.

On dnite, I'd suggest changing espeed and superpower --> fpunch and eq. These two give phenomenal coverage together without the side-effect of lowering your stats, and you already have priority from lucario and scizor, so you shouldn't miss espeed much. Meanwhile, this dnite is basically walled by nothing (aside from like balloon heatran lol), and eq takes care of rachis in rain, while fire punch still hits even rain ferro very hard.

On gengar, I'd suggest putting trick somewhere on that set, as it's great at crippling spinners and the like (think tentacruel, forry, donphan--none of them want to be passed a choice item). Focus blast isn't so great on scarfgar imo, since without any boost or substitute fblast is a bit weak and inconsistent, so I'd say trick > fblast. HP [fire] is also worth a consideration for scizor, forry, and ferro, but hp ice is p cool for revenging dragons, so I'd stick with that unless you feel particularly weak to the metal bugs.

That's all I have to add, gl with the team and hope my comments helped!

Jan 12th, 2013, 7:13:00 AM	#1
Takion Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 89	Prio Please! (Currently 1810 on PS) Hey Smogonites! I joined here just over a month ago and with your help I was able to make a team thats doing decently well on the ladder. I am hoping you guys can continue to help me out! With the heavy usage in weather, I decided to be a complete hipster and build a team without it. Now this isn't Anti-Meta, but a team built to not only have success in weather but beat the rogue teams that are randomly faced. Without further due here we go: Team at a Glance Team Building Process: It all started with Lucario, my favorite Pokemon. I was determined to build a team with him. His priority moves allow him to be a sweeper, while after a swords dance he can basically break any wall. Very few pokemon can actually walk in on a close combat and laugh it off. Instead of thinking logically about choosing a team mate that could cover Lucario's weaknesses and provide great synergy with, I decided to go with the king of priority. This allowed me to worry less about my sweepers speed. Now what I had was two Steel Pokemon that could be demolished by a fire pokemon. I needed a counter bad, and thats where Heatran came in. Deo-D, Hazards are absoluetly necessary. Every little damage matters, and thats to this legendary's bulk, I'm able to lay down stealth rocks along with spike. Spin Blocking is a must on this team, if those hazards get away it could be a difference between a loss or a win. Gengars clutch offense was what I needed. I didn't want to stop at Lucario, and Scizor. I wanted MOAR. This is where Dragonite came in. Kingdra. I was having troubles with Keldeo and Specs Politoed, not to mention was in need of a special sweeper. Kingdra was the answer and havent looked back. Sorry Heatran! In-Depth Analysis ... Changes are in Red! Lucario @ Life Orb Trait: Justified EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd Adamant Nature - Swords Dance - Close Combat - ExtremeSpeed - Bullet Punch----->Crunch Man, I can't even tell you how much I played this guy in Brawl. He basically got me into gaming so leaving him out of a team was just out of the question. I really enjoy his priority moves, the big question came down to: Crunch or Bullet Punch? With crunch I can sweep past Jellicent, Slowbro, but with BP I can knock out Terrakion. After some testing, what I noticed was Terrakion was far more common, and if I didn't get rid of this guy he'll put a major dent on my team. The rest is self-explanatory but I have been debating between Jolly and Adamant nature. Jolly would allow me to outspeed jolly mamoswine, and other Lucarios but I really need the damage adamant nature can provide me. Slowbro, after stealth and spike damage gets 2HKO by lucario with CC. +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Slowbro: 168-199 (42.74 - 50.63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes However, this leaves him vulnerable to possibly getting killed by psychic or psyshock. Scizor @ Leftovers Trait: Technician Shiny: Yes EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 Spe Adamant Nature - U-turn----------->Bug Bite - Bullet Punch - Superpower - Swords Dance The King/Queen of Prio. As popular as the Choice Band set maybe, I absolutely HATE being locked into one move. If the opponent switch in pokemon can counter it, they most likely will seize the opportunity to set up. With bulk however, this allows me to get an easy swords dance off. I'm a little iffy on the super power but its done well so far. It easily OHKO Lucario and Cobalion, while taking a CC from them. Once a swords dance has been placed, very few 'mons can go toe to toe with him. Even Jirachi, assuming it is completely invested in Physical bulk, is OHKO by it, or at worst 2HKO. Kingdra Kingdra @ Life Orb Trait: Swift Swim Shiny: Yes EVs: 228 Spd / 240 SAtk / 40 HP Modest Nature IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def - Rain Dance - Hydro Pump - Draco Meteor - Ice Beam As much as I liked Heatran, he was slow and I needed to a way top stop Keldeo and Choice Spec Politoed. Luckily Kingdra was exactly what I needed. The EV spread are suggested by Sciztar. This allows me to outspeed Choice Scarf Latios in the rain. I have to be careful about Ferrothorn, but I only see it as opportunity to switch in Lucario for a swords dance. I decided to go with the special variant as I already have enough physial users and an outrager. In Testing: *Latios, and Rotom-W* Deoxys-Defense @ Red Card Trait: Pressure EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spd / 4 SDef Timid Nature - Magic Coat - Stealth Rock - Taunt - Spikes A lot of people may disagree my choice for a suicide lead, but Deo-D makes his presence felt with all those stealth rock and spike damages. Let me explain a few of my unusual choices. I went with Red Card because Deo-D screams set up heaven on him. Faster pokemon see this opportunity and go nuts. Magic Coat is there for the Tornadus-T and the rare Aerodactyl lead off. If these guys taunt Deo-D then Im basically playing an uphill battle and am at a COMPLETE disadvantage. Gengar @ Choice Scarf Trait: Levitate EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP Timid Nature - Focus Blast - Thunderbolt------>Destiny Bond - Shadow Ball - Hidden Power [Ice] Alright, I know you're all question my decision to choice scarf the already very fast Gengar, but I honestly needed something that can out speed the Meta, while providing other benefits to my team. After a spin block on Starmie, Gengar can easily OHKO with shadowball. He's faster than a Keldeo and can hit it hard with thunderbolt, easily OHKO a ScarfChomp, Scarfundurus-T, Tornadus-T after stealth rock with HP Ice. He also blocks fighting moves, which hurt Lucario, Scizor, and Heatran pretty well. Dragonite @ Lum Berry Trait: Multiscale EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP Adamant Nature - Dragon Dance - ExtremeSpeed - Outrage - Earthquake--------->Super Power Lucario, and Scizor's offensive wasn't enough. I needed more power, and dragonite was just the perfect guy. My choice for the 4th slot being Earthquake was to counter Jirachis and Ferrothorns. Some may most likely use fire punch but these two 'mons are found mainly on rain teams.Extremespeed allows me to revenge kill, or hit pokemon faster than me. For example, the Lati twins after being weakened with stealth rock get hammered with a ES from a DD Dnite. We all are aware after a DD, very few things are stopping this guy from going on an Outrage (Yes, a pun was intended). Proof of Rating ... Importables ... Lucario (M) @ Life Orb Trait: Justified EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd Adamant Nature - Swords Dance - Close Combat - ExtremeSpeed - Bullet Punch Dragonite @ Lum Berry Trait: Multiscale EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP Adamant Nature - Dragon Dance - ExtremeSpeed - Outrage - Earthquake Scizor @ Leftovers Trait: Technician Shiny: Yes EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef Adamant Nature - U-turn - Bullet Punch - Superpower - Swords Dance Heatran @ Air Balloon Trait: Flash Fire EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 Def Timid Nature - Fire Blast - Earth Power - Hidden Power [Ice] - Toxic Gengar @ Choice Scarf Trait: Levitate EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP Timid Nature - Focus Blast - Thunderbolt - Shadow Ball - Hidden Power [Ice] Deoxys-Defense @ Red Card Trait: Pressure EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spd / 4 SDef Timid Nature - Magic Coat - Stealth Rock - Taunt - Spikes With that being said. I really appreciate any help, comments, suggestions! Enjoy the RMT! Last edited by Takion; Jan 14th, 2013 at 3:26:05 AM.

Jan 12th, 2013, 8:42:24 AM	#3
Neliel Victors must always speak of the way the world should be, not the way it is. Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 475 Mentor	Hey :3 im one of the best fan of the lucario/scizor offensive core, so ill give you some suggestions. First, i strongly recommend you to use Destiny bond on gengar somewhere, why you may ask? Destiny bond is your only move that can ko any spinner regardless what they do, and since this is the main role of gengar on deo-d offense teams, you should really run it. Not only it kills spinners because they are forced to attack you, but also destiny bond can come in handy to revenge kill any stuff in a pinch. I would probably use destiny bond over thunderbolt since thunderbolt doesnt have too much to offer to the coverage bar revenge kill gyarados, which isnt even that common, while hidden power ice revenge kills dragons and kos Gliscor and landorus (a pain for Lucario) but if you feel like thunderbolt is needed to hit Tornadus-t, you may want to use thunder at this point, so just experiment while you test them. Now i havent seen heatran that much in this type of teams, because it doesnt really fits in heavy offense teams with his overall bad speed and the lack of setup moves. I also think that your team really suffers rain teams, having a single pokemon that resists water is very danger, because a simple specstoed can heavily damage everything in your team and then a scarf keldeo can just do a kill every time it switchs in. I would probably switch heatran with something else that take care of rain while still mantains his offensive presence, i honestly would put a dragon dance Kindgra here. How it works is simple, if you can do a single dragon dance and you have already eliminated ferrothorn you have probably won the game against rain teams. The reason i think the dragon dance set is better here rather then the specs one, is because dragon dance kindgra can actually do something else if rain isnt up, his speed its not the best but it can work sometimes. I would go with the standard set Waterfall / Outrage / Dragon Dance / Rest with a chesto berry. Chesto berry helps you dealing with Sub toxic cruel or Bulky politoed, being able to heal the status and to recover your hp. At this point i think you can put something else over earthquake on Dragonite. Earthquake is a really poor choice when you can use other moves like Waterfall, Superpower or Fire punch. Now since Dd kingra can setup on jirachi thanks to chesto berry, and you want ferrothorn killed to sweep with kindgra, you should put Superpower instead of Earthquake. This, not only will let you hit Ferrothorn under rain, but also Heatran, and in general it gives you a better coverage. You are probably thinking that the atk drop of superpower will ruin this set, but i must say no. First, since you can actually hit more things with superpower you dont need that much lum berry to avoid the confusion, because more often than not superpower+1 in enough to kill some things and you dont have to do outrage every time. What i think you can use instead is life orb, because with it you wont notice the lack of the +1, outrage still hits hard even with +0 and extreme speed really likes the added power of life orb. Also, since kindgra is already able to dealing with status, i dont think you need to use lum berry. Just a note, this is the damage against ferrothorn with +1 life orb superpower: 403 Atk (+1) VS 352 Def and 352 HP (120 Base Power): 386 - 455 (109.65% - 129.26%) And this is what earthquake did before: 403 Atk (+1) VS 352 Def and 352 HP (100 Base Power): 161 - 190 (45.73% - 53.97%) As you can see, its an huge difference. Also if you dont believe me outrage is still strong without boosts, here is the calc of outrage against tornadus-t: 403 Atk VS 196 Def and 299 HP (180 Base Power): 345 - 406 (115.38% - 135.78%) Lastly, this is the damage of life orb extremespeed+1, against things that are supposed to revenge kill you like Scarf latios: 403 Atk (+1) VS 196 Def and 301 HP (80 Base Power): 231 - 272 (76.74% - 90.36%) Last, but not least, i think you can use something else in place of leftovers on scizor. Leftovers is just the worst option in offensive teams, because it doesnt really matter if you recover or not with leftovers but only if you do enough damages to sweep. I think you can put Metal coat over leftovers if you dont like the recoil of life orb, at least its better to power up your priority move. You can find the list of changes below. I hope i helped you and gl! ... Thunderbolt--> Destiny bond (if you want to keep thunderbolt, then use Thunder) --> Kingdra (M) @ Chesto Berry Trait: Swift Swim EVs: 20 HP / 252 Atk / 236 Spd Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Waterfall - Outrage - Rest - Dragon Dance Earthquake--> Superpower Lum berry--> Life orb Leftovers--> Metal coat __________________ Check out team of the week!

Jan 12th, 2013, 1:02:16 PM	#6
Mr. Green Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 143 Italy	Hi, there I guess that's a HO in which the strategy is that Deoxys-S the square Hazards, Gengar ago by Spin-Blocker and Thunderbolt hurts Tentacruel, Lucario, Scizor and Dragonite are the Sweeper and Heatran covers from heat. However, I have some changes to be proposed, for example, Scizor Offensive Swords Dancer, since to do much damage as possible you should use it with Life Orb> Leftovers, then instead of Superpower maybe you could try Brick Break, for the simple fact that when you attack with Superpower consumption part boost that you put just using Swords Dance. For Gengar as an option over Destiny Bond, you can also try Thunder, which does more harm to Tentacruel under Rain, who will certainly try to remove the Hazards that you have placed. Of Dragonite, to increase damage when you attack you may try Life Orb> Lum Berry. That is all. Good luck, with your team! tl;dr ... Life Orb > Leftovers (for Scizor) Brick Break (for Scizor) Thunder > Destiny Bond (for Gengar, but optional) Life Orb > Lum Berry (for Dragonite)

Jan 12th, 2013, 1:07:18 PM	#7
Neliel Victors must always speak of the way the world should be, not the way it is. Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 475 Mentor	Yeah, you are probably more weak to sun teams but, a well builded sun doesnt care much about heatran anyway (they always have random eqs or just dugtrio) and kindgra can still attempt a sweep under sun because it resists fire x4 and its stab outrage isnt weakened. You should also note that sun teams rarely carry more than one steel, so if you can weaken the steel with Dragonite kindgra isnt that useless. Also just saying, rain is waay more used so i think you should be prepared better for what is more used. As for dragonite, you will probably have your multiscale broken in the turn you do dragon dance, so its not that problematic. __________________ Check out team of the week!

Jan 12th, 2013, 2:09:30 PM	#8
Novaray i am happy Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 1,140 that's just the saddest lie Mentor	Hi Takion This is a pretty solid Deoxys-D Hyper Offense team you have here. I think you have a strong core of breakers that can effectively wear down your opponent. I also like the Pokemon Conquest sprites a lot! Now as previously mentioned to are a bit weak to Rain teams. Things like Tornadus-T and Keldeo can really give your team troubles. Scarf Gengar can outspeed both but he is very frail and struggles against other things on rain teams such as Jirachi and Ferrothorn. To help with your weakness to Rain teams as well as maintaining your offensive presence I suggest replacing Heatran with a Life Orb Kingdra with a moveset of Rain Dance / Hydro Pump / Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse. Kingdra is one of the best checks to Rain teams due to him having his Speed doubled through Swift Swim. If Rain isn't up, he can easily set it up himself, activating Swift Swim and boosting Hydro Pump. Kingdra can easily take the Fire type attacks that you are currently using Heatran to take due to his 4x resistance and he also has a 4x resistance to Water. Hwatran is also an odd fit on an HO team due to his middling speed and doesn't really have the potential to sweep without a Choice Scarf. Dragon and Water type attacks are the only ones used on the Kingdra set because they provide good neutral coverage with each other and even resistances don't enjoy taking Rain-boosted Hydro Pumps. Kingdra packs Rain Dance himself to increase his Speed if the opponent is not running a Rain team and it also helps mitigate Scizor's Fire weakness slightly. Now for some smaller changes. On Scizor, I recommend Roost over U-turn. With your bulky set, Scizor can easily take hits then heal off damage with Roost. This allows to get more Swords Dance boosts under your belt, allowing you to sweep more easily. U-turn is not hitting much that Bullet Punch and Superpower cannot already hit and it forces you to lose your boosts. Also with an HO team, you don't want to be switching around too often as you often would be better off sacrificing something then switching it out due to the fragility of your Pokemon. As Shining_Latios also mentioned, moving 4 Special Defense EVs into Speed allows you to outrun the Scizors that don't have any Speed investment. Lastly, you could try Superpower on Dragonite over Earthquake. Superpower allows you to hit both Heatran and Ferrothorn hard and without it, Ferrothorn can give you some trouble if it has Gyro Ball and could stop your sweep. Hope I helped and good luck with your team! Set: ... Kingdra (M) @ Life Orb Trait: Swift Swim EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) -Rain Dance -Hydro Pump -Draco Meteor -Dragon Pulse tl;dr ... Heatran ----> Life Orb Kingdra U-turn on Scizor ----> Roost 4 Special Defense EVs on Scizor ----> 4 Speed EVs Earthquake on Dragonite ----> Superpower __________________ island in the sun

Jan 12th, 2013, 7:38:03 AM	#2
Alexander. Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 1,135	Hello, I got your PM. Looking at your team, it seems very solid anyway I have some advice so let's start with the rate! First of all, on Scizor I suggest you to use Bug Bite, replacing U-Turn. You haven't other U-Turn or Volt Switch users so I think U-Turn is quite a useless move in your team because when you'll use U-Turn you'll probably lose Sword Dance's boost without have any advantage. Then, on Gengar I'd change Thunderbolt into Destiny Bond. Thunderbolt isn't a good move on Choice Scarf Gengar because you'll use more Shadow Ball and Focus Blast because they form a very very good coverage. Destiny Bond otherwise can be useful to revenge-kill pokèmon that Gengar can't revenge-kill, Keldeo after one Calm Mind for example. Finally, I'd use Fire Punch, replacing Earthquake on Dragonite. Jirachi and Heatran aren't a big problem for your team because it has Heatran. Ferrothorn and Skarmory otherwise can be problematic because they can put entry hazards which you can't remove so I think that Fire Punch is better than Earthquake in this team. That's all I had to say about your team. I hope I helped, good luck!

Jan 12th, 2013, 12:21:26 PM	#4
Shining Latios Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,311	Hi, cool offensive team you have here. The most glaring weakness to your team is opposing rain teams, without a doubt. For this reason, I agree with Neliel Tu Oderschvank on changing Heatran into Kingdra. Kingdra can take advantage of opposing rain and thoroughly crush your enemy because of Swift Swim. With that said, I suggest taking the 4 Special Defensive EVs you have on Scizor and put them into Speed. It might not seem like a drastic change, but in case you are in a situation against another Scizor with no speed investments, you will be able to outspeed. Hope I helped.

Jan 12th, 2013, 3:02:33 PM	#9
victini493RMT Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 15	Hi. Nice team! As Neliel Tu Oderschvank and Sayonara stated, you are a little weak to Rain Offense, and Jellicent. I like the idea of DD Chesto Berry Kingdra over Heatran, but that doesn't take Hurricanes and Secret Swords too well, meaning you'd have to sacrifice something to switch it in freely. I think Rotom-W would be a nice fit on this team because it beats non Toxic Jellicent, Landorus-T, Skarmory, and Gliscor 1v1, and avoids a 2HKO from Scarfed Keldeo's Secret Sword/Hydro Pump(in Rain), and can sponge attacks from Tornadus-T and can grab momentum. It also helps you bring a sweeper in for free. The Defense EV's also ensure that you won't be 2HKO'd by Mamoswine's Superpower after Stealth Rock, from full HP. Rest can be used on this set, with a Chesto Berry, for reliable recovery, and would beat Toxic Stalling Gliscor easier. Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers/Chesto Berry Trait: Levitate EVs: 248 HP / 156 Def / 104 SDef Calm Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Volt Switch - Hydro Pump - Will-O-Wisp - Pain Split/Rest Last edited by victini493RMT; Jan 13th, 2013 at 12:07:11 AM. Reason: Mixed up EV Spread

Jan 13th, 2013, 1:51:01 PM	#10
Sciztar Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 237	Hey Takion, i would like to chime in on the Life Orb Kingdra since I've used Kingdra alot in BW2. I don't agree with Novaray EVs on Kingdra. The EVs I recommend is 40 HP / 240 SpA / 228 Spe This is the best set for Kingdra, b/c with 40HP you have a nice Life Orb number and a nice switch in number for Stealth Rock and Spikes. Also you don't need 252 EVs in your speed, because all you need is 228 in your speed to out speed Choice Scarf Latios in the rain which is the best benchmark. Now I would not suggest using Dragon Pulse on Kingdra, Ice Beam is better for Kingdra. With Ice Beam you are able to hit the Genes with 100% accuracy. With Hydro Pump's shaky accuracy to hit the genes in the rain, Ice Beam gives you that 100% to KO Tornadus-t, THundurus-T, and Landorus-T. Here is the set Kingdra (M) @ Life Orb Trait: Swift Swim EVs: 40HP / 240 SAtk / 228 Spd Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) -Rain Dance -Hydro Pump -Draco Meteor -Ice Beam Hoped I helped and Luvdisc __________________ Need Help With an OU Trick Room Team? Join the Trick Room Expert Group

Jan 13th, 2013, 6:43:27 PM	#11
Chimpakt Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,295 Cole World!	Like previous users have said, you struggle a bit against rain teams. Heatran is the most susceptible to them, so I suggest you replace it with a Latios. Latios can check sun teams relatively well and matches up great against rain teams. Latios has excellent coverage and can break stall relatively well with strong Draco Meteors and Psyshock to hit special walls. Latios may make you more vulnerable to tyranitar, but with Deoxys and Gengar, Tyranitar may not be healthy enough to pursuit trap your Latios. Additionally, I would test out Skill Swap over Taunt or Magic Coat on Deoxys. With Gengar on your team you don't have to worry about maintaining your hazards against rapid spinners, but Magic Bounce users could be annoying to deal with. Volcarona on a sun team could provide some problems and getting up Rocks against Xatu or Espeon will help combat that threat. latios Latios (M) @ Life Orb Trait: Levitate EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Draco Meteor - Psyshock - Hidden Power [Fire] - Recover Hope I helped and good luck. __________________ My youtube channel [Pokemon Narrations, Let's Plays] VM me for OU/UU rates. wish i could change my username to chimpact :[

Jan 15th, 2013, 2:11:56 PM	#13
Uomo Solo Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 145 Naples, Italy	Hey dude :) I got your request, nice team, i always play HO teams, are quick, effective and easy to use.I have a similiar team, it s very interesting to use Kingdra into an Heavy Offense, to do a sort of Antimeta. Let s rate it C: The team is pretty good against the most common Playstyles/archetype of teams, it have not big weakness, so i can only say something about your sets or Evs Spreads; the only thing that I have to notice you is that you are a bit weak to Lando-T Polisher/Double Dancer, opponents Lucario or DDGyarados that with stealth rock on the field are not so easy to stop. These are my advices From the moment that Sun Teams with U-Turner( for example ChoicerVictini/Landorus)+Xatu/Espeon are ever more used and you are not to effective against them, you need to set for strength. A cool idea could be to run Skill Swap>Magic Coat, that allow you to change your trait with the opponent s one, and it s useful to set Entry Hazards in evely peace, it give you an incredible advantage because often if the opponent use those pokemon, him does not use a Rapid-Spinner and although used it you have Gengar who works greatly. Skill Swap is already incredible against the hately FullBaton Pass, because if you prive opponents Espeon' trait you can taunt easily all the team untill the win. About Scizor, I don t like yours Evs Spread, because with 252HP it have 13% Damage from entry on Stealth Rock and with only 4 Evs Speed you can t outspeed opponent s Scizor and you may be killed by some SpD Heatran, Flamethrower/Fire Blast Tyrannitar and you cannot outspeed the ever most common 0 Evs Speed SpDRotom-W that can burn you or hit harder with both his STAB moves. So my Suggestion is to try this Evs Spread: 72HP/252Atk/184Spd Adamant Nature, it allow you to outspeed it s common Switch-in like not offensive Heatran,Politoed and the ubiquitous Rotom-W with < 16 Evs in Speed. If you don t want so offensive set, you have anyway to move 4 Evs From HP to Speed, to have more switch in with Stealth Rock or Spikes on the field and you can also win 1vs1 against 4Spd Evs Opponent s Scizor. About your Item, if you want to run my offensive set, I suggest you to try Lum Berry instead of Leftovers, cause you can Boost on Scald/W-o-W without problems, and SpD Jirachi cant paralyze you and Paraflinch to death, Leftovers are pretty useless from the moment you are not running with Roost+SDance set. Alternative is Life Orb/Metal Coat, it make you a good revengekiller and with the second options (if you want to continue use U-turn) you may bluff a Choice Band Set. I have a last suggestion for you and it s on your Gengar. Thunder is not an optional from the moment that the common Spinners are Starmie and Tentacruel and you must hit them, especially with second, because Scald cant HOKO you even with rain boost (except in case of burn+Protect) and you also can hit Flyng-Dragon such as Salamence/Dragonite without give set up to an eventually Lucario/Gyarados (common teammates of them, especially Lucario) that could 6-0 with Stealth Rock on the field. Thunder also may hit Bulky Water such as Politoed, Vaporeon, Jellicent (shadow ball to..) and so on. So let you try it over Hidden Power Ice. For Lucario, in my opinion is better Bullet Punch than Crunch, it give you an incredible possibility to sweep opponent s team with help of Hazards. With Bullet punch you have a way to hit Gengar, an eventually ChoiceScarfTyranitar and Terrakion, this last that have certainly more usage than Slowbro/Jellicent. You have Dragonite as switch in on an eventually Jellicent, it s not the best switch but you are playing an offense team. Hope I helped :) i m here when you want Tl;dr ... Deoxys-D @ Red Card Trait: Pressure EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk) - Skill Swap - Stealth Rock - Spikes - Taunt Scizor (F) @ Lum Berry Trait: Swarm EVs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spd Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Swords Dance - U-turn - Bullet Punch - Superpower Gengar (F) @ Choice Scarf Trait: Levitate EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Destiny Bond - Shadow Ball - Thunder - Focus Blast Lucario (F) @ Life Orb Trait: Inner Focus EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Swords Dance - Bullet Punch - ExtremeSpeed - Close Combat __________________ VM or PM me for an OU Team Rate! Check Out my last team Envincibile Armada [Peaked 1#]

Jan 17th, 2013, 1:22:11 AM	#15
Sciztar Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 237	I'm actually going to disagree with Bullet Punch on Lucario. While at +2 you are able to KO Terrakion no questions asked. But you already have Scizor's Bullet Punch as a check to Terrakion have two of the same priority moves to hit the same threat is redundant. I looked at your team and you only have Gengar to really get rid of Jellicent, but the risk of a burn can be bad. Jellicent can also be a pain for Kingdra because it can sponge Kingdra's Draco Meteor and Recovery back to full health and then you'll be forced to switch out -2 Kingdra. So Crunch on Lucario is the better choice, you can hit Latios and Latias hard on the switch in. __________________ Need Help With an OU Trick Room Team? Join the Trick Room Expert Group

Jan 17th, 2013, 1:38:57 AM	#16
Kidogo Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 424	This is a cool team, congrats on your success with it. This seems pretty solid synergy-wise, so I just have a few set comments. On Deo-d, try out a set of SR / Spikes / Taunt / Thunder Wave @ Mental Herb. Mental Herb + Taunt allows you to beat any taunter without having to predict with magic coat while freeing up a moveslot. Since you don't have red card to check set-up sweepers, try out twave instead. Deo-d can just paralyze anything trying to set up on it, which also buys it some free turns to set up hazards. Twave can also be used as many times as you want, which is another bonus over red card. I've used this deo-d set a lot, and it's my favorite by far. On dnite, I'd suggest changing espeed and superpower --> fpunch and eq. These two give phenomenal coverage together without the side-effect of lowering your stats, and you already have priority from lucario and scizor, so you shouldn't miss espeed much. Meanwhile, this dnite is basically walled by nothing (aside from like balloon heatran lol), and eq takes care of rachis in rain, while fire punch still hits even rain ferro very hard. On gengar, I'd suggest putting trick somewhere on that set, as it's great at crippling spinners and the like (think tentacruel, forry, donphan--none of them want to be passed a choice item). Focus blast isn't so great on scarfgar imo, since without any boost or substitute fblast is a bit weak and inconsistent, so I'd say trick > fblast. HP [fire] is also worth a consideration for scizor, forry, and ferro, but hp ice is p cool for revenging dragons, so I'd stick with that unless you feel particularly weak to the metal bugs. That's all I have to add, gl with the team and hope my comments helped! __________________ Check out my RMT (Baton) Passport to Victory (Peaked #2)! Want to read a warstory? Try this one: Dragons Dinos, and Donkeys (I mean ponies): an OU Warstory