Doubles - Page 6

Audiosurfer · Jan 12th, 2013, 3:56:29 PM

Managed to take 1st place in the Doubles Tournament that Articblast hosted on PS! Was using the Sand team that I've been using for those of you who've faced me, and was testing Latias as the 6th team member. Was Magileine so the matches wouldn't affect my main ladder account (although according to Articblast it wouldn't have anyways so it didn't really matter).
Replays:
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles7684796 - Me vs Satoshi
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles7685619 - Me vs SD J UK
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles7686446 - Me vs Exeggutor (finals)
Note about the final- apparently if Exeggutor had not missed a Rock Gem boosted Rock Slide she woulda got the 2HKO on my Cresselia, which would've undoubtedly made the game swing in her favor, so I felt the need to point that out as well.
But yeah. It was pretty fun, and a cool way to test my team. If I ladder with it more and/or get bored of it, I'll probably make an RMT for it too. One thing I learned from the match is that Dual Screens are pretty effective in Doubles. The teams I faced in the tourney as well as on the ladder were annoying since moves that should've 1-2HKOed their mons took longer to do so, and if I wanted to deal more damage, I would have to use both mons to attack 1 pokemon, which meant their 2nd mon could do whatever it wanted. What teams do you guys think most need Dual Screens in Doubles?

BlankZero · Jan 12th, 2013, 5:23:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Audiosurfer

Managed to take 1st place in the Doubles Tournament that Articblast hosted on PS! Was using the Sand team that I've been using for those of you who've faced me, and was testing Latias as the 6th team member. Was Magileine so the matches wouldn't affect my main ladder account (although according to Articblast it wouldn't have anyways so it didn't really matter).
Replays:
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles7684796 - Me vs Satoshi
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles7685619 - Me vs SD J UK
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles7686446 - Me vs Exeggutor (finals)
Note about the final- apparently if Exeggutor had not missed a Rock Gem boosted Rock Slide she woulda got the 2HKO on my Cresselia, which would've undoubtedly made the game swing in her favor, so I felt the need to point that out as well.
But yeah. It was pretty fun, and a cool way to test my team. If I ladder with it more and/or get bored of it, I'll probably make an RMT for it too. One thing I learned from the match is that Dual Screens are pretty effective in Doubles. The teams I faced in the tourney as well as on the ladder were annoying since moves that should've 1-2HKOed their mons took longer to do so, and if I wanted to deal more damage, I would have to use both mons to attack 1 pokemon, which meant their 2nd mon could do whatever it wanted. What teams do you guys think most need Dual Screens in Doubles?

I' thinking of running Dual Screens on my Sun Team myself, maybe fitting in Cress somewhere, but over what? :/

Edit: Here's a match between iRenzo and myself.

I replaced Heatran with Cressalia running Dual Screens, TWave and Icy Wind @ Sitrus Berry, although Leftovers might be a better option on it. I eventually win the Weather War and stall him out with Ferrothorn/Cressalia, paralyzing everything and slowing it all with Icy Wind, eventually leading to a Forfeit. Considering I used to use Heatran as a Stall-Type mon, this seems to have been a good idea. I may eventually change Gyro Ball on Ferro for SR giving me rocks to keep folks from switching out so much, which they tend to do after a Leech Seed. Thoughts?

The Exeggutor · Jan 12th, 2013, 11:00:05 PM

My Trick Room team is one that I have been using to success recently, in both doubles formats (vgc, smog dubs). With only minor edits with switching between the two tiers. http://pastebin.com/eFxbzu is the team and it has a basic strategy, keep your trick room up as long as you possible can. The way to get your trick room up guaranteed within the first two turns, is to lead with Jellicent and Amoongus. If your opponent has a fake outer, use protect on both pokemon, and if not, just rage powder with Amoongus and trick room, mental herb will activate if your opponent is carrying a taunter and then you're free to put something to sleep. Kyurem-b, Rhyperior, and Chandelure are the abusers well Cresselia Can be used to set up trick room once again once Jellicent has died. Rhyperior is a good team mate to have with Jellicent, being able to absorb electric attacks aimed at it with lightning rod and Chandy and Kyurem-b just provide heavy damage with little effort. For those interested in using this team in VGC, replace kyurem-b with scrafty and you're good to go. Kyurem-b is still only being tested at this point and is kind of "fast" for trick room, but it has worked extremely well so far

...

The past bin didn't work so the team is in the hide tag

youngjake93 · Jan 13th, 2013, 4:49:54 AM

Guys, Absorb Bulb Seaking is da bomb at doubles. One time, I had a Politoed use Surf on me, I used Discharge, and Genesect used Thunder on Seaking. Seaking went from +0 to +3 in a single turn and was free to spam rain boosted Surfs!
The movepool isn't great with Surf, Icy Wind, Agility, Protect, and Psybeam(for Toxicroak and Breloom) being all its got on the special side. The horrible base stats are disappointing as well =/

Specs Gastrodon is amazing. Getting +1 from the common Surf, resisting Rock Slide and Heat Wave, immunity to Discharge, STAB Surf are all great. Earth Power scores nice KOs and Icy Wind adds a lot too.

Deoxys-A is broken.. All you have to do is use fakeout on 1 Pokemon and CB ESpeed/Zen Headbutt/Superpower the other for a free KO, rinse and repeat. This also works with follow me and rage powder.

Joim · Jan 13th, 2013, 9:02:54 AM

Well, I'm trying teams for this meta and I've put this one together. I thought of good couples, so I kinda work with 3 cores: discharge, defensive and rain power spam.
Replays:
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles7732944
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles7733808
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles7734521
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles7734690
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles7735716

Politoed & Jellicent are both scarfed and use Surf and Water Spout. They are the power houses and anti-weather of my team. Thundy and Manectric work together and basically spam Discharge. I might scarf them, but the defensive berries work better by now. They can destroy a team rapidly. Blissey uses heal pulse, t-wave and is basically the support pivot, whilst hitmontop provides both defense and offense.

Still working on it :)

Edit: Changed Heal Blissey for Intimidate Landorus-T, seems it works. T-wave added to Manectric instead.

***Zarel**** · Jan 13th, 2013, 12:03:04 PM

As a warning: There was a bug that made screens -1/2 damage in doubles (they should be -1/3 damage), which has been fixed as of one hour ago. You may wish to adjust your strategies accordingly.

Pwnemon · Jan 13th, 2013, 2:49:03 PM

a surprisingly good pokemon I've found in Doubles is Archeops (that's a replay of him kicking ass). He seems to thrive in the environment of selectable targets somehow with decent prediction, and his blazing fast speed (sadly one point lower than thundurus D: ), good Dual STAB and Stealth Rock make him a valuable asset to my rain team. I'd urge everyone to try him out.

edit: blank_zero brought to my attention aerodactyl, the lack of acrobatics and u-turn kinda hurt but he seems like about the same fare.

BlankZero · Jan 13th, 2013, 2:49:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Zarel

As a warning: There was a bug that made screens -1/2 damage in doubles (they should be -1/3 damage), which has been fixed as of one hour ago. You may wish to adjust your strategies accordingly.

I'm a bit confused over this, and went back to the OP to check, because I don't see any mention of this. If it's standard fare in VGC, then fine, I just am a bti put off by it myself.

Also, what are folks thoughts on Stall Teams or Semi Stall in this meta?

Joim · Jan 13th, 2013, 2:55:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat BlankZero

I'm a bit confused over this, and went back to the OP to check, because I don't see any mention of this. If it's standard fare in VGC, then fine, I just am a bti put off by it myself.

Also, what are folks thoughts on Stall Teams or Semi Stall in this meta?

I myself want to try rain stall and I think it may work thanks to protect and wide guard.

BlankZero · Jan 13th, 2013, 3:16:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Joim

I myself want to try rain stall and I think it may work thanks to protect and wide guard.

Toxic Spikes and such might work, though I feel you'd Reeeeeeeeealy need to focus on overall bulk. Maybe a Sand Stall team?

BlankZero · Jan 13th, 2013, 5:12:20 PM

Rain Stall is decently effective. iRenzo and I played a match with his new team and did rather well, even though I knew the basic strategy.

SubwayJ · Jan 13th, 2013, 6:29:30 PM

Even though I am not very good, I would say with the battles I've played in, Dual Screens Gothielle has been a boss. IMO she is just as good if not better than Cress if only because of Shadow Tag > Bulk

BlankZero · Jan 13th, 2013, 8:15:41 PM

I do believe that Dual Screens is very ineffective now that it's been fixed. Now, using Reflect/LS if need be is fine, but as a viable strategy, I don't think it's as good now.

I've been running a new set on Cressalia recently as a result, with Protect/Psyshock replacing my Screens, but I'm not sure if I should continue with her or move on to something else with lots of bulk and TWave/Icy Wind.

Here's a recent match to show the effectiveness.

NatGeo · Jan 13th, 2013, 9:49:27 PM

Personally, since the Doubles metagame atm can be played pretty similar to the VGC 12 / VGC 13 meta I'm using a fairly offensive cress set with HP Fire / Twave / Ice Beam / Psyshock. I'm still undecided on how to EV it properly though, given that the major damage benchmarks haven't been really set out here like they have in VGC (i.e. Dragon Gem Latios Draco Meteor, etc.). It's kinda sad because for cress to be bulky effectively in this meta it has to lose some offense that it will almost always need, and vice versa... 3HKOed some ferrothorn today with non - Expert Belt HP Fire and I was stunned slightly.

On that note, what have you guys been trying for Cresselia sets? I'd assume that VGC far would translate pretty well into this metagame but with the addition of new legendaries there might be some other set or moves that are better here. I have yet to try the combo of Skill Swap Cresselia + Heatran, so if someone could post their experiences with that it could be a great insight into how much VGC and Smogon Doubles are similar, at least at this moment! :)

BlankZero · Jan 13th, 2013, 10:07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat NatGeo

Personally, since the Doubles metagame atm can be played pretty similar to the VGC 12 / VGC 13 meta I'm using a fairly offensive cress set with HP Fire / Twave / Ice Beam / Psyshock. I'm still undecided on how to EV it properly though, given that the major damage benchmarks haven't been really set out here like they have in VGC (i.e. Dragon Gem Latios Draco Meteor, etc.). It's kinda sad because for cress to be bulky effectively in this meta it has to lose some offense that it will almost always need, and vice versa... 3HKOed some ferrothorn today with non - Expert Belt HP Fire and I was stunned slightly.

On that note, what have you guys been trying for Cresselia sets? I'd assume that VGC far would translate pretty well into this metagame but with the addition of new legendaries there might be some other set or moves that are better here. I have yet to try the combo of Skill Swap Cresselia + Heatran, so if someone could post their experiences with that it could be a great insight into how much VGC and Smogon Doubles are similar, at least at this moment! :)

At the moment, I'm running a bulky defensive support Cress.

Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Protect
- Psyshock
- Thunder Wave
- Icy Wind

Speed control is amazing in this meta, especially with how fast a lot of things are now. It really helps out a lot during matches with Paralyze, letting my Blaziken come in and wreck without even needing a Speed Boost, or allowing Ferrothorn to move before the opponent even without TR up.

I do wish it had some extra power though, as if it comes down to my last 2 mons (usually Ferro/Cress) I'd like to be able to hit back effectively.

**voodoo pimp** · Jan 13th, 2013, 10:11:44 PM

I've had really good success with Calm Mind/Moonlight/Psyshock/Icy Wind on my sun team. With sun up, a lot of teams flat-out cannot break through, and even with no SpA investment she can do some damage after a couple of boosts.

Also, I honestly think Protect is a waste of a move slot on Cresselia. She has so many good support options and it doesn't really protect from a lot of stuff.

Audiosurfer · Jan 13th, 2013, 10:18:24 PM

Just got through making an RMT for my Doubles Sand team. You can see it here. Hopefully it brings a bit more attention to the tier, as well as proving Sand isn't at a disadvantage compared to other weathers like people say it is.

EDIT: Also, Audiosurfer vs. Level 51

BlankZero · Jan 13th, 2013, 10:25:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat voodoo pimp

I've had really good success with Calm Mind/Moonlight/Psyshock/Icy Wind on my sun team. With sun up, a lot of teams flat-out cannot break through, and even with no SpA investment she can do some damage after a couple of boosts.

Also, I honestly think Protect is a waste of a move slot on Cresselia. She has so many good support options and it doesn't really protect from a lot of stuff.

What item though, Sitrus? I might try that as I'm getting tired of not doing shit for damage. give me a set VP! :P

ThePillsburyDoughBoy · Jan 13th, 2013, 10:31:25 PM

Alright I need to finally get around to posting my battles:

...

I am pretty bored running the same team I have run since pretty much I started the playing and I think so is everyone else :p

Team

From my experience with my team I came to these conclusions:

Focus Sash is a very powerful item this metagame due to the absence of SR. You can effectively keep a Poke to its sash all the way to late game. While this is mitigated by the ability for a Pokemon to be hit twice in one turn if slower, the times where you will be targeted twice (unless with a spread move) will be in the minority. Focus Sash can effectively disrupt many stratigies, expecially those of Helping Hand+Spread Move users. One paticular instance was when I trolled Pocket and his Eruption TR Heatran and KO'ed both of his Pokes :)
Skymin is perhaps the most powerful Pokemon in this metagame. While many users will be inclined to disagree with me, I would say to them that Skymin combination of power, speed, and utility makes it so. First of all Skymin is rarely outsped since few teams carry a choice scarfer or a base 130+ Poke. Only priority is common enough that hits it first before it hits you. Speaking of hitting, it hits hard, Seed Flare is a monster. Not only is it a 120 BP STAB, but it can utilize the potential Sp. Def for a team mate. On the utility aspec, Skymin's Air Slash can be used to buy free turns for another teammate or itself. Getting yourself free-turns can be incredibly disruptive to the opponent, especially if he or she is trying to get a field effect up. It can also use Tailwind to support its team. Really the only thing stopping Skymin is Icy Wind being everywhere, weakness to spread moves (but it can be stopped with a good partner), and lack of its own spread moves. Skymin is the reason for the inclusion of Aerodactyl on this team.
Helping Hand+Priority moves are an incredible tool to sniping Pokemon right out of the game. Helping Hand "helps" before a priority, move, so you can effectively have a 135 base power priority move with Scizor or Breloom!!! That isn't even taking into account item boosts. This is especially helpful against trick room teams.
You should really come up with 3 solid pairs for your team. I have found building by the "pair method" is better than the "overall" method. In my case, it is Aerodactyl+Mamoswine, Skymin+Heatran, and Scizor+Cresselia.
Aerodactyl is a pretty good niche pokemon. Its support makes sure Pokemon relying on resist berries/heal berries, such as Zapdos and Garchomp won't get away. It's fast STAB Rock Slide is a great anti-Skymin measure and its very fast Taunt makes sure the opponent will be debilitated. I would prefer to use Aerodactyl in the place of Archeops Pwnmon.
Creeselia really enjoys using Icy Wind. Icy Wind hits many Pokemon 4x super-effectively while still providing support for a teammate.

On the metagame in general, it is interesting to see how toned down the power level is compared to singles and how things are flipped on their head. IMO Hail is better than Sand in this metagame. Other than Excadrill, Sand does not recieve as many perks compared to other weathers. Tyranitar's and Hippowdon's water-weakness sucks in a metagame filled with rain, and in Tyranitar's case weakness to Earthquake. Excadrill I have found is really subpar, since it's STAB EQ cannot handles the most popular bulky tanks in the metagame: those being Cresselia, Hitmontop, and Landorus-T. Creeslia is immune to its main STAB; Landorus-T does better with a super-effective EQ against Excadrill, Intimidate, and immunity; and Hitmontop applies Intimidate and either a Fighting-Gem Mach Punch/Close Combat or Wide Guard.

What makes Hail better is Blizzard, the best spread move in the game. Seriously, abusing 120 base power for a spread move lays down a lot of pain fast. Ice is one of the best attacking types in the game (behind fighting and dragon) hitting many Pokes 4x Super-effectively and having no immunities. Lastly, it has a 10% chance of feezing either target is icying on the cake.

IMO Goodstuffs does not get enough representation in the tier. It certainly can apply pressure to almost all opposing playstyes. People also should apply more thought to the "lead doubles" metagame, Aerodactyl+Mamoswine have caught a lot of teams off guard. Lastly, I think people are starting to catch on to the application of SR in the tier. It still is not the force it is in singles, and never will be, but considering how many weather wars there are and how since it is 6 vs 6 instead of 4 vs 4 like VGC, it still has good application.

Audiosurfer · Jan 13th, 2013, 10:38:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat BlankZero

What item though, Sitrus? I might try that as I'm getting tired of not doing shit for damage. give me a set VP! :P

I think ChestoRest is the best Cresselia set, since I usually only need to use it once, if ever, and being able to get rid of status as well is great. Basically Psychic and Rest + 2 support moves of your choice does really well against plenty of teams.

**voodoo pimp** · Jan 13th, 2013, 11:16:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat BlankZero

What item though, Sitrus? I might try that as I'm getting tired of not doing shit for damage. give me a set VP! :P

Leftovers (it rarely lasts for less than four turns unless the battle is over by then). I'm writing up a RMT for that team right now, so check it out when I'm done.

The Exeggutor · Jan 13th, 2013, 11:20:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat NatGeo

Personally, since the Doubles metagame atm can be played pretty similar to the VGC 12 / VGC 13 meta I'm using a fairly offensive cress set with HP Fire / Twave / Ice Beam / Psyshock. I'm still undecided on how to EV it properly though, given that the major damage benchmarks haven't been really set out here like they have in VGC (i.e. Dragon Gem Latios Draco Meteor, etc.). It's kinda sad because for cress to be bulky effectively in this meta it has to lose some offense that it will almost always need, and vice versa... 3HKOed some ferrothorn today with non - Expert Belt HP Fire and I was stunned slightly.

On that note, what have you guys been trying for Cresselia sets? I'd assume that VGC far would translate pretty well into this metagame but with the addition of new legendaries there might be some other set or moves that are better here. I have yet to try the combo of Skill Swap Cresselia + Heatran, so if someone could post their experiences with that it could be a great insight into how much VGC and Smogon Doubles are similar, at least at this moment! :)

I run my Cresselia very similar to the VGC sets i've been using as of late, I've only ever used 2 different sets, one very offensive like you mentioned with the exact move set and for that set i've been using a 252hp 252 specattack with 4 def and a modest nature. The other set that i've been using is basically a mono attack with Trick room support helping hand and resto chesto.

...

the set allows you to basically set up trick room, use psychic on threats like breloom, terrakinon thundurus ect, and helping hand as the main support move helping teammates such as Rhyperior with rock gem do major damage with rock slide, doing roughly 70% to the standard cress iirc

Also and edit for anyone who cares i've changed chandelure for Abomasnow on the team i've posetd and changed ice beam for blizzard on kyurem-b and it seems to be working a little better then it was with chandy

Audiosurfer · Jan 13th, 2013, 11:40:43 PM

Audiosurfer vs Blankzero
Was a pretty fun battle of Sand vs Sun. Thought it was interesting to note how frail alot of Sun sweepers are, and how in general the archetype relies mostly on speed to do things. I think it's pretty easy to take advantage of if you have something that can live through their Sun-Boosted attacks (easier said than done).
EDIT: Except for Cresselia who is bulky and awesome (Happy Voodoo Pimp?)

BlankZero · Jan 14th, 2013, 12:31:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Audiosurfer

Audiosurfer vs Blankzero
Was a pretty fun battle of Sand vs Sun. Thought it was interesting to note how frail alot of Sun sweepers are, and how in general the archetype relies mostly on speed to do things. I think it's pretty easy to take advantage of if you have something that can live through their Sun-Boosted attacks (easier said than done).
EDIT: Except for Cresselia who is bulky and awesome (Happy Voodoo Pimp?)

Agreed. Fun battle and that Excadrill really worked me over with X-Scissor. Wasn't expecting it at all. Once Lilligant went down, things just got worse as Exca is immune to TWave AND toxic due to its amazing typing. I wish I had known about X-Scissor though. Too bad for me eh?

BlankZero · Jan 14th, 2013, 4:11:37 AM

I finally posted my better-than-Voodoo's Sun RMT. Let me know what you think. I'll be fleshing out descriptions later.

Also, Snowflakes and I. Snow never plays Doubles but it was still a close game. This is just to highlight how strong Ferrothorn really is as a tank.

Jan 12th, 2013, 3:56:29 PM	#126
Audiosurfer Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 321	Managed to take 1st place in the Doubles Tournament that Articblast hosted on PS! Was using the Sand team that I've been using for those of you who've faced me, and was testing Latias as the 6th team member. Was Magileine so the matches wouldn't affect my main ladder account (although according to Articblast it wouldn't have anyways so it didn't really matter). Replays: http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles7684796 - Me vs Satoshi http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles7685619 - Me vs SD J UK http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles7686446 - Me vs Exeggutor (finals) Note about the final- apparently if Exeggutor had not missed a Rock Gem boosted Rock Slide she woulda got the 2HKO on my Cresselia, which would've undoubtedly made the game swing in her favor, so I felt the need to point that out as well. But yeah. It was pretty fun, and a cool way to test my team. If I ladder with it more and/or get bored of it, I'll probably make an RMT for it too. One thing I learned from the match is that Dual Screens are pretty effective in Doubles. The teams I faced in the tourney as well as on the ladder were annoying since moves that should've 1-2HKOed their mons took longer to do so, and if I wanted to deal more damage, I would have to use both mons to attack 1 pokemon, which meant their 2nd mon could do whatever it wanted. What teams do you guys think most need Dual Screens in Doubles? __________________ Intro to things I like/use: Last.fm (new)\| Pojo \| Dueling Network \| PS \| Downton Abbey \| Once Upon a Time \| Cartoons \| Movies \| Harry Potter \| Finance \| #doubles \| #neverused PM/VM me for an NU rate! Also free Emboar. #banRU

Jan 12th, 2013, 11:00:05 PM	#128
The Exeggutor The world is full of Kings and Queens, who blind your eyes then steal your dreams Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 276 Canada	My Trick Room team is one that I have been using to success recently, in both doubles formats (vgc, smog dubs). With only minor edits with switching between the two tiers. http://pastebin.com/eFxbzu is the team and it has a basic strategy, keep your trick room up as long as you possible can. The way to get your trick room up guaranteed within the first two turns, is to lead with Jellicent and Amoongus. If your opponent has a fake outer, use protect on both pokemon, and if not, just rage powder with Amoongus and trick room, mental herb will activate if your opponent is carrying a taunter and then you're free to put something to sleep. Kyurem-b, Rhyperior, and Chandelure are the abusers well Cresselia Can be used to set up trick room once again once Jellicent has died. Rhyperior is a good team mate to have with Jellicent, being able to absorb electric attacks aimed at it with lightning rod and Chandy and Kyurem-b just provide heavy damage with little effort. For those interested in using this team in VGC, replace kyurem-b with scrafty and you're good to go. Kyurem-b is still only being tested at this point and is kind of "fast" for trick room, but it has worked extremely well so far ... Jellicent @ Sitrus Berry Trait: Water Absorb EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk Quiet Nature IVs: 0 Spd - Trick Room - Scald - Shadow Ball - Protect Amoonguss @ Mental Herb Trait: Effect Spore EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef Calm Nature - Spore - Rage Powder - Giga Drain - Protect Kyurem-Black @ Chople Berry Trait: Teravolt Shiny: Yes EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk Brave Nature IVs: 0 Spd - Dragon Claw - Ice Beam - Fusion Bolt - Protect Chandelure @ Fire Gem Trait: Flash Fire EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef Modest Nature - Shadow Ball - Heat Wave - Energy Ball - Protect Cresselia (F) @ Chesto Berry Trait: Levitate EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef Quiet Nature IVs: 0 Spd - Rest - Trick Room - Psychic - Helping Hand Rhyperior @ Rock Gem Trait: Lightningrod EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef Adamant Nature - Earthquake - Megahorn - Rock Slide - Protect The past bin didn't work so the team is in the hide tag __________________ 20:49: Eggy sounds kinky 20:50; V4 Kinky is good 20:50: Treecko.u kinky 20:50: skybot: kinky: Foot-sucking, rubber wearing, pee on me, fruit-fuckin', candlewax drippin', long fingernail scrapin', tossed salad eatin',multiple partner havin', she-male, oil-drenched, chocolate sauce, whipped cream covered,vibrator usin',dress-up,banned in 30 states type of sex. Last edited by The Exeggutor; Jan 12th, 2013 at 11:11:41 PM.

Jan 13th, 2013, 4:49:54 AM	#129
youngjake93 Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 263	Guys, Absorb Bulb Seaking is da bomb at doubles. One time, I had a Politoed use Surf on me, I used Discharge, and Genesect used Thunder on Seaking. Seaking went from +0 to +3 in a single turn and was free to spam rain boosted Surfs! The movepool isn't great with Surf, Icy Wind, Agility, Protect, and Psybeam(for Toxicroak and Breloom) being all its got on the special side. The horrible base stats are disappointing as well =/ Specs Gastrodon is amazing. Getting +1 from the common Surf, resisting Rock Slide and Heat Wave, immunity to Discharge, STAB Surf are all great. Earth Power scores nice KOs and Icy Wind adds a lot too. Deoxys-A is broken.. All you have to do is use fakeout on 1 Pokemon and CB ESpeed/Zen Headbutt/Superpower the other for a free KO, rinse and repeat. This also works with follow me and rage powder. __________________ http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3475016 Rate My Team?

Jan 13th, 2013, 9:02:54 AM	#130
Joim It's only over when you give up Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 653 Joim is pronounced like joy-m, stress on "Jo". It's /ˈdʒɔɪm/. Mentor	Well, I'm trying teams for this meta and I've put this one together. I thought of good couples, so I kinda work with 3 cores: discharge, defensive and rain power spam. Replays: http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles7732944 http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles7733808 http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles7734521 http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles7734690 http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles7735716 Politoed & Jellicent are both scarfed and use Surf and Water Spout. They are the power houses and anti-weather of my team. Thundy and Manectric work together and basically spam Discharge. I might scarf them, but the defensive berries work better by now. They can destroy a team rapidly. Blissey uses heal pulse, t-wave and is basically the support pivot, whilst hitmontop provides both defense and offense. Still working on it :) Edit: Changed Heal Blissey for Intimidate Landorus-T, seems it works. T-wave added to Manectric instead. __________________ Intelligence speaks, wisdom listens. Contributions: \| \| \| \| \| Spanish Translation \| May Seasonal \| PS contributions Smog articles: NFEs in NU \| NU Spotlight: Drifblim \| Seasonal Fun \| Blue Best Rival Projects: Joim's Lab: OMs in action \| Speed Calc \| Old Gens in PS Gameplay: Play Smogon Doubles! \| Joimmons [15:24] <%Joim> I have so many fans! [15:24] <@TheImmortal> do they keep you cool [12:00] <@mikel\|away> i love a good twistie penis gif Last edited by Joim; Jan 13th, 2013 at 10:26:56 AM.

Jan 13th, 2013, 12:03:04 PM	#131
*Zarel >> BEGIN POSTBIT Super Moderator** Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,126 >> END POSTBIT	As a warning: There was a bug that made screens -1/2 damage in doubles (they should be -1/3 damage), which has been fixed as of one hour ago. You may wish to adjust your strategies accordingly. __________________ Pokemon Showdown \| Replay player \| No, I am not impressed that you know that my name is Guangcong Luo. The PS website says "Copyright Guangcong Luo" at the bottom, ffs.

Jan 13th, 2013, 2:49:03 PM	#132
Pwnemon Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 3,944 Maryland	a surprisingly good pokemon I've found in Doubles is Archeops (that's a replay of him kicking ass). He seems to thrive in the environment of selectable targets somehow with decent prediction, and his blazing fast speed (sadly one point lower than thundurus D: ), good Dual STAB and Stealth Rock make him a valuable asset to my rain team. I'd urge everyone to try him out. edit: blank_zero brought to my attention aerodactyl, the lack of acrobatics and u-turn kinda hurt but he seems like about the same fare.

Jan 13th, 2013, 5:12:20 PM	#136
BlankZero Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 543 East Coast, USA	Rain Stall is decently effective. iRenzo and I played a match with his new team and did rather well, even though I knew the basic strategy. __________________ A forum post should be like a skirt; long enough to cover the important bits, yet short enough to keep things interesting. Most posts on Smogon are like Pantsuits.

Jan 13th, 2013, 6:29:30 PM	#137
SubwayJ Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 1,552 Ontario, Canada	Even though I am not very good, I would say with the battles I've played in, Dual Screens Gothielle has been a boss. IMO she is just as good if not better than Cress if only because of Shadow Tag > Bulk __________________ Look left ---------------------------------------> You failed Life's too short for ramen. ASB team!

Jan 13th, 2013, 8:15:41 PM	#138
BlankZero Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 543 East Coast, USA	I do believe that Dual Screens is very ineffective now that it's been fixed. Now, using Reflect/LS if need be is fine, but as a viable strategy, I don't think it's as good now. I've been running a new set on Cressalia recently as a result, with Protect/Psyshock replacing my Screens, but I'm not sure if I should continue with her or move on to something else with lots of bulk and TWave/Icy Wind. Here's a recent match to show the effectiveness. __________________ A forum post should be like a skirt; long enough to cover the important bits, yet short enough to keep things interesting. Most posts on Smogon are like Pantsuits.

Jan 13th, 2013, 9:49:27 PM	#139
NatGeo ♭ Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,423 ♯	Personally, since the Doubles metagame atm can be played pretty similar to the VGC 12 / VGC 13 meta I'm using a fairly offensive cress set with HP Fire / Twave / Ice Beam / Psyshock. I'm still undecided on how to EV it properly though, given that the major damage benchmarks haven't been really set out here like they have in VGC (i.e. Dragon Gem Latios Draco Meteor, etc.). It's kinda sad because for cress to be bulky effectively in this meta it has to lose some offense that it will almost always need, and vice versa... 3HKOed some ferrothorn today with non - Expert Belt HP Fire and I was stunned slightly. On that note, what have you guys been trying for Cresselia sets? I'd assume that VGC far would translate pretty well into this metagame but with the addition of new legendaries there might be some other set or moves that are better here. I have yet to try the combo of Skill Swap Cresselia + Heatran, so if someone could post their experiences with that it could be a great insight into how much VGC and Smogon Doubles are similar, at least at this moment! :)

Jan 13th, 2013, 10:11:44 PM	#141
voodoo pimp Apply directly to the forehead Moderator Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 2,953	I've had really good success with Calm Mind/Moonlight/Psyshock/Icy Wind on my sun team. With sun up, a lot of teams flat-out cannot break through, and even with no SpA investment she can do some damage after a couple of boosts. Also, I honestly think Protect is a waste of a move slot on Cresselia. She has so many good support options and it doesn't really protect from a lot of stuff. __________________ Check out Smogon's new Doubles metagame! White FC: 4126-4421-4056 Black 2 FC: 3311-0920-4475 My Pokécheck Pokémon RNG is kind of like firing a gun. Why shoot blindly in every direction until you're lucky enough to hit the target when you can just take the time to aim properly and hit it with one shot?

Jan 13th, 2013, 10:18:24 PM	#142
Audiosurfer Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 321	Just got through making an RMT for my Doubles Sand team. You can see it here. Hopefully it brings a bit more attention to the tier, as well as proving Sand isn't at a disadvantage compared to other weathers like people say it is. EDIT: Also, Audiosurfer vs. Level 51 __________________ Intro to things I like/use: Last.fm (new)\| Pojo \| Dueling Network \| PS \| Downton Abbey \| Once Upon a Time \| Cartoons \| Movies \| Harry Potter \| Finance \| #doubles \| #neverused PM/VM me for an NU rate! Also free Emboar. #banRU Last edited by Audiosurfer; Jan 13th, 2013 at 10:35:25 PM.

Jan 13th, 2013, 10:31:25 PM	#144
ThePillsburyDoughBoy Ttar by Doughboy Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 948 Mentor	Alright I need to finally get around to posting my battles: ... http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/do...tomgame7090774 http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/do...tomgame7254336 http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/batt...tomgame7264825 http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles7722234 I am pretty bored running the same team I have run since pretty much I started the playing and I think so is everyone else :p Team Scizor @ Iron Plate Trait: Technician EVs: 180 HP / 252 Atk / 76 SDef Adamant Nature - Bug Bite - Bullet Punch - Tailwind - Protect Heatran (F) @ Charcoal Trait: Flash Fire EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Modest Nature - Earth Power - Dragon Pulse - Heat Wave - Protect Cresselia (F) @ Chesto Berry Trait: Levitate EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef Bold Nature - Helping Hand - Rest - Icy Wind - Psychic Mamoswine @ Focus Sash Trait: Thick Fat EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd Serious Nature - Earthquake - Ice Shard - Icicle Crash - Protect Shaymin-Sky @ Life Orb Trait: Serene Grace EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef Timid Nature - Air Slash - Earth Power - Seed Flare - Protect Aerodactyl (F) @ Focus Sash Trait: Unnerve EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd Jolly Nature - Taunt - Protect - Rock Slide - Earthquake From my experience with my team I came to these conclusions: Focus Sash is a very powerful item this metagame due to the absence of SR. You can effectively keep a Poke to its sash all the way to late game. While this is mitigated by the ability for a Pokemon to be hit twice in one turn if slower, the times where you will be targeted twice (unless with a spread move) will be in the minority. Focus Sash can effectively disrupt many stratigies, expecially those of Helping Hand+Spread Move users. One paticular instance was when I trolled Pocket and his Eruption TR Heatran and KO'ed both of his Pokes :) Skymin is perhaps the most powerful Pokemon in this metagame. While many users will be inclined to disagree with me, I would say to them that Skymin combination of power, speed, and utility makes it so. First of all Skymin is rarely outsped since few teams carry a choice scarfer or a base 130+ Poke. Only priority is common enough that hits it first before it hits you. Speaking of hitting, it hits hard, Seed Flare is a monster. Not only is it a 120 BP STAB, but it can utilize the potential Sp. Def for a team mate. On the utility aspec, Skymin's Air Slash can be used to buy free turns for another teammate or itself. Getting yourself free-turns can be incredibly disruptive to the opponent, especially if he or she is trying to get a field effect up. It can also use Tailwind to support its team. Really the only thing stopping Skymin is Icy Wind being everywhere, weakness to spread moves (but it can be stopped with a good partner), and lack of its own spread moves. Skymin is the reason for the inclusion of Aerodactyl on this team. Helping Hand+Priority moves are an incredible tool to sniping Pokemon right out of the game. Helping Hand "helps" before a priority, move, so you can effectively have a 135 base power priority move with Scizor or Breloom!!! That isn't even taking into account item boosts. This is especially helpful against trick room teams. You should really come up with 3 solid pairs for your team. I have found building by the "pair method" is better than the "overall" method. In my case, it is Aerodactyl+Mamoswine, Skymin+Heatran, and Scizor+Cresselia. Aerodactyl is a pretty good niche pokemon. Its support makes sure Pokemon relying on resist berries/heal berries, such as Zapdos and Garchomp won't get away. It's fast STAB Rock Slide is a great anti-Skymin measure and its very fast Taunt makes sure the opponent will be debilitated. I would prefer to use Aerodactyl in the place of Archeops Pwnmon. Creeselia really enjoys using Icy Wind. Icy Wind hits many Pokemon 4x super-effectively while still providing support for a teammate. On the metagame in general, it is interesting to see how toned down the power level is compared to singles and how things are flipped on their head. IMO Hail is better than Sand in this metagame. Other than Excadrill, Sand does not recieve as many perks compared to other weathers. Tyranitar's and Hippowdon's water-weakness sucks in a metagame filled with rain, and in Tyranitar's case weakness to Earthquake. Excadrill I have found is really subpar, since it's STAB EQ cannot handles the most popular bulky tanks in the metagame: those being Cresselia, Hitmontop, and Landorus-T. Creeslia is immune to its main STAB; Landorus-T does better with a super-effective EQ against Excadrill, Intimidate, and immunity; and Hitmontop applies Intimidate and either a Fighting-Gem Mach Punch/Close Combat or Wide Guard. What makes Hail better is Blizzard, the best spread move in the game. Seriously, abusing 120 base power for a spread move lays down a lot of pain fast. Ice is one of the best attacking types in the game (behind fighting and dragon) hitting many Pokes 4x Super-effectively and having no immunities. Lastly, it has a 10% chance of feezing either target is icying on the cake. IMO Goodstuffs does not get enough representation in the tier. It certainly can apply pressure to almost all opposing playstyes. People also should apply more thought to the "lead doubles" metagame, Aerodactyl+Mamoswine have caught a lot of teams off guard. Lastly, I think people are starting to catch on to the application of SR in the tier. It still is not the force it is in singles, and never will be, but considering how many weather wars there are and how since it is 6 vs 6 instead of 4 vs 4 like VGC, it still has good application. __________________ Check Out My New Team: Enter Paralysis

Jan 13th, 2013, 11:40:43 PM	#148
Audiosurfer Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 321	Audiosurfer vs Blankzero Was a pretty fun battle of Sand vs Sun. Thought it was interesting to note how frail alot of Sun sweepers are, and how in general the archetype relies mostly on speed to do things. I think it's pretty easy to take advantage of if you have something that can live through their Sun-Boosted attacks (easier said than done). EDIT: Except for Cresselia who is bulky and awesome (Happy Voodoo Pimp?) __________________ Intro to things I like/use: Last.fm (new)\| Pojo \| Dueling Network \| PS \| Downton Abbey \| Once Upon a Time \| Cartoons \| Movies \| Harry Potter \| Finance \| #doubles \| #neverused PM/VM me for an NU rate! Also free Emboar. #banRU Last edited by Audiosurfer; Jan 14th, 2013 at 12:25:19 AM.

Jan 14th, 2013, 4:11:37 AM	#150
BlankZero Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 543 East Coast, USA	I finally posted my better-than-Voodoo's Sun RMT. Let me know what you think. I'll be fleshing out descriptions later. Also, Snowflakes and I. Snow never plays Doubles but it was still a close game. This is just to highlight how strong Ferrothorn really is as a tank. __________________ A forum post should be like a skirt; long enough to cover the important bits, yet short enough to keep things interesting. Most posts on Smogon are like Pantsuits. Last edited by BlankZero; Jan 14th, 2013 at 4:38:02 AM.