(Other) Team WhiteWater (Smogon Doubles: Peaked #2)

Pwnemon · Jan 15th, 2013, 3:12:42 PM

It's Pwnemon; you probably recognize me if you do CAP or ASB, or if you remember a moderate-to-poor poster in OU from about a year ago before I grew disenchanted with the meta. Well, about a week ago, bmelts mentioned that Pocket was trying to get a doubles metagame going on Smogon. Intrigued, I threw together a team, which eventually grew into what it is today. Without further ado, I present to you the best rain team on the Smogdubs ladder: Team Whitewater!

Ranking at the time of writing this RMT

importable

OVERVIEW:

This team has a slightly different approach than most when it comes to the Doubles metagame; I joined before the ladder, and was the first to come at the meta with more experience in Singles than in VGC, so it's kind of unorthodox. The team focuses on keeping the edge on the opposition by always being in motion and utilizing the standard ScRotom VolTurn in a special way to keep rain as the weather. Politoed, on a good day, probably spends the end of every turn on the field. Then, I had a couple of super-powerful physical attackers whose STABs are not resisted by most teams to smack things around. The entire team, however, revolves around a Kingdra sweep. He's my endgame plan; in almost all the battles where he falls early, I'm struggling for a win; in the matches where he stays until the end, I rarely lose. The team has a lot of trouble playing on the back foot, as it focuses more on spamming offensive powerhouses than it does on defensive synergy, which it is seriously lacking in. Now that I've given you an idea of how the overall goal of the team is accomplished, let me give you the breakdown.

Politoed @ Leftovers
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 4 SDef / 252 HP / 252 Def
Bold Nature
- Surf
- Protect
- Encore
- Helping Hand

When I said "rain team" it probably wasn't hard to guess that this guy got a team slot, but honestly, even if he wasn't the only Pokemon that got Drizzle, I'd probably be using Politoed still. He serves more than his purpose as a supporter on the team, using Helping Hand for any of my five other pokemon to turn 2hkoes into OHKOes; encoring into recovery, screens, boosting moves, etc. many Pokemon that would otherwise kill me; smacking things and activating Absorb Bulb on my Kingdra. Honestly, 2/3 of turns, I'm just spamming Helping Hand while this guy is in, but he's easily the best mon for a weather war.

Kingdra @ Absorb Bulb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Muddy Water
- Hydro Pump
- Protect
- Dragon Pulse

Kingdra is the star of the show on this team. Those STAB resisted only by Ferrothorn! Not even scarfers outspeed this guy, and if i can get to an endgame with Politoed and Kingdra out and the weather war won, it's GG. After an Absorb Bulb and Helping Hand boost, nothing except Ferrothorn can take what this guy has to offer. He has surprisingly decent bulk and his longevity with Protect is surprising. Muddy Water is what I'll be using 90% of the time to punch holes in the opposition; Dragon Pulse is used on Dragons, Gastrodon, and Jellicent only. Using this, I can absolutely sympathize with people who wanted Drizzle+SwSw banned in OU.

Rotom-Wash @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 20 HP / 252 SAtk / 236 Spd
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Trick
- Volt Switch

Rotom is Kingdra without the setup. Since a lot of the threats to my team are either really fast or really slow, I included a Scarf Rotom (for the fast ones) with Trick (for the slow ones). Hidden Power Ice is for Skymin, a massive bitch to any team but especially rain. Half the time, I'm using Volt Switch to bring in my Politoed or Kyurem, but the other half, I'm using Rotom because he beats all the fast threats like Thundurus and Manectric (and some others like Metagross and Jirachi).

Archeops @ Flying Gem
Trait: Defeatist
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Acrobatics
- Rock Slide
- Stealth Rock

Oh boy, this slot went through so many Pokemon it's not even funny. Scizor to Blissey to Landorus-T to Celebi to Infernape to Terrakion to Archeops; I think maybe that little snippet of its history can tell you the trouble I'm dealing with trying to find something that really /fits./ Archeops may seem like a questionable choice but it has surprising longevity with Protect, since most people (rightly) don't focus-fire it. A Flying Gem Acrobatics KOes approximately any one threat to my team, and fast rock slide flinches are fun to abuse also. Archeops's most important role is in being an all-purpose weather war winner; aside from sand (which sucks) he can take any opposing weather starter, bash its head against the rocks, and leave the carcass out to dry. That's also what Stealth Rock is there for.

Kyurem-Black @ Choice Band
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Fusion Bolt
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw
- Rock Slide

If Kingdra is a F-22 then Kyurem is more like goddamn Little Boy. He really just tears shit up every time he steps on the field, and has more than enough bulk to take your horseshit. The diminished role of Steel-type Pokemon in Doubles makes Dragon Spam a semi-reliable strategy, and the special bent of the meta means a physical tankbuster more than serves his purpose. If I'm having a problem with a Pokemon that just won't die, Kyurem is always there to fix that.

Scizor @ Life Orb
Trait: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 216 HP / 40 Spd
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Feint
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower

Scizor is just such a /unique/ Pokemon that I couldn't help but use him. With Technician Bullet Punch and a superpowered U-turn, he's already looking pretty good. Then throw in Feint and hollllly shit, why does nobody use him in Doubles. The EV's are simply to make him outspeed my Politoed by one point so he can U-turn out before a Surf; max the attack, put the rest in bulk. Unlike in Singles, Scizor doesn't serve as any sort of "glue" for this team, he acts as another powerful attacker to dispatch Pokemon at low HP, and as another pivot to bring Politoed in when I need to win the weather war vs Hail.

On to the threat list:

Yeah, it's a little ironic that this should be my biggest problem I get it. Kingdra really tears through my team though, since the only things that can take its attacks are also the ones that can't hit it back. Basically my strategy is focus fire it with two Pokemon, it can't kill them both. I always lose at least one Pokemon to Kingdra.

Ferrothorn. Look at my team, see what moves I have to kill Ferrothorn with, and stop wondering why he's on here. Basically i just try to Trick him early.

I actually don't have problems with skymin usually, since Kyurem-B, Rotom, and Scizor can all ostensibly handle it. But haxxy bitches will be haxxy bitches. Ban Skymin.

Thanks for reading, rate my team pls!

nyttyn · Jan 15th, 2013, 3:33:17 PM

Forgive me, because this is my first team rate. That's a pretty solid team you have there Pwnemon, but Archenops seems kind of out of place as he magnifies your Kingdra weakness while also not doing terribly much for you in return. Might I suggest a Defensive Gastrodon? You lose out on stealth rock, but it counters Kingdra, is buffed by your surf spam, and can fuck up most physical attackers, provides icy wind support, and helps activate your own kingdra's absorb bulb. You'll suffer a tad more in the weather war, but given how frail and vulnerable Archenops is, it seems like a better bet to give him up for something that can help you beat out the number 1 threat to your team.

Note: This gastrodon has minimal speed to help deal with Trick Room teams as it won't be outspeeding anything anyway.

Gastrodon @ Rindo Berry
Trait: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Surf / Muddy Water
- Icy Wind
- Earth Power
- Recover / Protect

**TheMantyke** · Jan 15th, 2013, 6:01:08 PM

So I'm going to be rating this team from the perspective of someone familiar with VGC team building synergy experience but next to no experience with smogon doubles. Take my advice with a grain of salt.

Archeops looks extremely out of place on this team as you've mentioned. The offensive prowess from Acrobatics doesn't really help rain break through much sans Amoonguss, its frail, and it doesn't partner well with really any of your team mates. You mentioned you're having problems with Ferrothorn and ultra fast Pokemon like Kingdra and Shaymin. To remedy the first problem and help the second, consider using a Toxicroak

Toxicroak @ Black Sludge
Adamant
Dry Skin
252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 Speed
-Drain Punch
-Sucker Punch / Ice Punch
-Fake Out
-Substitute / Protect.

If you set up a substitute with Toxicroak, Ferrothorn is helpless against you thanks to black sludge, drain punch, and Dry Skin. Fake Out allows you to grab momentum early game and / or allow your partner to target an important Pokemon in relative safety. Not to mention, Toxicroak really appreciates Surfs from Politoed and has solid offensive synergy with the rest of the team.

If you find Toxicroak's offensive prowess lacking, you could also consider a Hitmontop who runs a very similar set, but can't do a lot of the cool things Toxicroak can in rain with partner surfs and Dry Skin.

Hope this quick advice helps.

BlankZero · Apr 19th, 2013, 9:09:25 PM

This team got so much better with Hitmontop.

Did you ever try the Toxicroak Suggestion though?

Jan 15th, 2013, 3:12:42 PM	#1
Pwnemon Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 3,956 Maryland	Team WhiteWater (Smogon Doubles: Peaked #2) It's Pwnemon; you probably recognize me if you do CAP or ASB, or if you remember a moderate-to-poor poster in OU from about a year ago before I grew disenchanted with the meta. Well, about a week ago, bmelts mentioned that Pocket was trying to get a doubles metagame going on Smogon. Intrigued, I threw together a team, which eventually grew into what it is today. Without further ado, I present to you the best rain team on the Smogdubs ladder: Team Whitewater! Ranking at the time of writing this RMT importable Politoed @ Leftovers Trait: Drizzle EVs: 4 SDef / 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Nature IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd - Surf - Protect - Encore - Helping Hand Kingdra @ Absorb Bulb Trait: Swift Swim EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef Modest Nature - Muddy Water - Hydro Pump - Protect - Dragon Pulse Rotom-Wash @ Choice Scarf Trait: Levitate EVs: 20 HP / 252 SAtk / 236 Spd Timid Nature - Hydro Pump - Hidden Power [Ice] - Trick - Volt Switch Archeops @ Flying Gem Trait: Defeatist EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk Jolly Nature - Protect - Acrobatics - Rock Slide - Stealth Rock Kyurem-Black @ Choice Band Trait: Teravolt EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spd Adamant Nature - Fusion Bolt - Outrage - Dragon Claw - Rock Slide Scizor @ Life Orb Trait: Technician EVs: 252 Atk / 212 HP / 4 SDef / 40 Spd Adamant Nature - U-turn - Feint - Bullet Punch - Superpower OVERVIEW: This team has a slightly different approach than most when it comes to the Doubles metagame; I joined before the ladder, and was the first to come at the meta with more experience in Singles than in VGC, so it's kind of unorthodox. The team focuses on keeping the edge on the opposition by always being in motion and utilizing the standard ScRotom VolTurn in a special way to keep rain as the weather. Politoed, on a good day, probably spends the end of every turn on the field. Then, I had a couple of super-powerful physical attackers whose STABs are not resisted by most teams to smack things around. The entire team, however, revolves around a Kingdra sweep. He's my endgame plan; in almost all the battles where he falls early, I'm struggling for a win; in the matches where he stays until the end, I rarely lose. The team has a lot of trouble playing on the back foot, as it focuses more on spamming offensive powerhouses than it does on defensive synergy, which it is seriously lacking in. Now that I've given you an idea of how the overall goal of the team is accomplished, let me give you the breakdown. Politoed @ Leftovers Trait: Drizzle EVs: 4 SDef / 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Nature - Surf - Protect - Encore - Helping Hand When I said "rain team" it probably wasn't hard to guess that this guy got a team slot, but honestly, even if he wasn't the only Pokemon that got Drizzle, I'd probably be using Politoed still. He serves more than his purpose as a supporter on the team, using Helping Hand for any of my five other pokemon to turn 2hkoes into OHKOes; encoring into recovery, screens, boosting moves, etc. many Pokemon that would otherwise kill me; smacking things and activating Absorb Bulb on my Kingdra. Honestly, 2/3 of turns, I'm just spamming Helping Hand while this guy is in, but he's easily the best mon for a weather war. Kingdra @ Absorb Bulb Trait: Swift Swim EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef Modest Nature - Muddy Water - Hydro Pump - Protect - Dragon Pulse Kingdra is the star of the show on this team. Those STAB resisted only by Ferrothorn! Not even scarfers outspeed this guy, and if i can get to an endgame with Politoed and Kingdra out and the weather war won, it's GG. After an Absorb Bulb and Helping Hand boost, nothing except Ferrothorn can take what this guy has to offer. He has surprisingly decent bulk and his longevity with Protect is surprising. Muddy Water is what I'll be using 90% of the time to punch holes in the opposition; Dragon Pulse is used on Dragons, Gastrodon, and Jellicent only. Using this, I can absolutely sympathize with people who wanted Drizzle+SwSw banned in OU. Rotom-Wash @ Choice Scarf Trait: Levitate EVs: 20 HP / 252 SAtk / 236 Spd Timid Nature - Hydro Pump - Hidden Power [Ice] - Trick - Volt Switch Rotom is Kingdra without the setup. Since a lot of the threats to my team are either really fast or really slow, I included a Scarf Rotom (for the fast ones) with Trick (for the slow ones). Hidden Power Ice is for Skymin, a massive bitch to any team but especially rain. Half the time, I'm using Volt Switch to bring in my Politoed or Kyurem, but the other half, I'm using Rotom because he beats all the fast threats like Thundurus and Manectric (and some others like Metagross and Jirachi). Archeops @ Flying Gem Trait: Defeatist EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk Jolly Nature - Protect - Acrobatics - Rock Slide - Stealth Rock Oh boy, this slot went through so many Pokemon it's not even funny. Scizor to Blissey to Landorus-T to Celebi to Infernape to Terrakion to Archeops; I think maybe that little snippet of its history can tell you the trouble I'm dealing with trying to find something that really /fits./ Archeops may seem like a questionable choice but it has surprising longevity with Protect, since most people (rightly) don't focus-fire it. A Flying Gem Acrobatics KOes approximately any one threat to my team, and fast rock slide flinches are fun to abuse also. Archeops's most important role is in being an all-purpose weather war winner; aside from sand (which sucks) he can take any opposing weather starter, bash its head against the rocks, and leave the carcass out to dry. That's also what Stealth Rock is there for. Kyurem-Black @ Choice Band Trait: Teravolt EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spd Adamant Nature - Fusion Bolt - Outrage - Dragon Claw - Rock Slide If Kingdra is a F-22 then Kyurem is more like goddamn Little Boy. He really just tears shit up every time he steps on the field, and has more than enough bulk to take your horseshit. The diminished role of Steel-type Pokemon in Doubles makes Dragon Spam a semi-reliable strategy, and the special bent of the meta means a physical tankbuster more than serves his purpose. If I'm having a problem with a Pokemon that just won't die, Kyurem is always there to fix that. Scizor @ Life Orb Trait: Technician EVs: 252 Atk / 216 HP / 40 Spd Adamant Nature - U-turn - Feint - Bullet Punch - Superpower Scizor is just such a /unique/ Pokemon that I couldn't help but use him. With Technician Bullet Punch and a superpowered U-turn, he's already looking pretty good. Then throw in Feint and hollllly shit, why does nobody use him in Doubles. The EV's are simply to make him outspeed my Politoed by one point so he can U-turn out before a Surf; max the attack, put the rest in bulk. Unlike in Singles, Scizor doesn't serve as any sort of "glue" for this team, he acts as another powerful attacker to dispatch Pokemon at low HP, and as another pivot to bring Politoed in when I need to win the weather war vs Hail. On to the threat list: Yeah, it's a little ironic that this should be my biggest problem I get it. Kingdra really tears through my team though, since the only things that can take its attacks are also the ones that can't hit it back. Basically my strategy is focus fire it with two Pokemon, it can't kill them both. I always lose at least one Pokemon to Kingdra. Ferrothorn. Look at my team, see what moves I have to kill Ferrothorn with, and stop wondering why he's on here. Basically i just try to Trick him early. I actually don't have problems with skymin usually, since Kyurem-B, Rotom, and Scizor can all ostensibly handle it. But haxxy bitches will be haxxy bitches. Ban Skymin. Thanks for reading, rate my team pls!

Jan 15th, 2013, 6:01:08 PM	#3
TheMantyke Relentless Moderator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 4,167 Atlanta, GA	So I'm going to be rating this team from the perspective of someone familiar with VGC team building synergy experience but next to no experience with smogon doubles. Take my advice with a grain of salt. Archeops looks extremely out of place on this team as you've mentioned. The offensive prowess from Acrobatics doesn't really help rain break through much sans Amoonguss, its frail, and it doesn't partner well with really any of your team mates. You mentioned you're having problems with Ferrothorn and ultra fast Pokemon like Kingdra and Shaymin. To remedy the first problem and help the second, consider using a Toxicroak Toxicroak @ Black Sludge Adamant Dry Skin 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 Speed -Drain Punch -Sucker Punch / Ice Punch -Fake Out -Substitute / Protect. If you set up a substitute with Toxicroak, Ferrothorn is helpless against you thanks to black sludge, drain punch, and Dry Skin. Fake Out allows you to grab momentum early game and / or allow your partner to target an important Pokemon in relative safety. Not to mention, Toxicroak really appreciates Surfs from Politoed and has solid offensive synergy with the rest of the team. If you find Toxicroak's offensive prowess lacking, you could also consider a Hitmontop who runs a very similar set, but can't do a lot of the cool things Toxicroak can in rain with partner surfs and Dry Skin. Hope this quick advice helps. __________________

Apr 19th, 2013, 9:09:25 PM	#4
BlankZero Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 547 East Coast, USA	This team got so much better with Hitmontop. Did you ever try the Toxicroak Suggestion though? __________________ A forum post should be like a skirt; long enough to cover the important bits, yet short enough to keep things interesting. Most posts on Smogon are like Pantsuits.

Jan 15th, 2013, 3:33:17 PM	#2
nyttyn Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 635	Forgive me, because this is my first team rate. That's a pretty solid team you have there Pwnemon, but Archenops seems kind of out of place as he magnifies your Kingdra weakness while also not doing terribly much for you in return. Might I suggest a Defensive Gastrodon? You lose out on stealth rock, but it counters Kingdra, is buffed by your surf spam, and can fuck up most physical attackers, provides icy wind support, and helps activate your own kingdra's absorb bulb. You'll suffer a tad more in the weather war, but given how frail and vulnerable Archenops is, it seems like a better bet to give him up for something that can help you beat out the number 1 threat to your team. Note: This gastrodon has minimal speed to help deal with Trick Room teams as it won't be outspeeding anything anyway. Gastrodon @ Rindo Berry Trait: Storm Drain EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk Relaxed Nature IVs: 0 Spd - Surf / Muddy Water - Icy Wind - Earth Power - Recover / Protect __________________ http://i.imgur.com/M88s8ua.gif