|Jan 18th, 2013, 11:09:57 PM||#1|
Join Date: Jan 2013
Hallo, i'm a relatively new player, just started playing pokemon competitively a month ago.
The goal of this team, as with most offensive team, is to counter opposing threats while keeping up pressure of my own.
Sunnies (Ninetales) @ Leftovers
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 8 SAtk / 220 SDef / 16 Spd
- Sunny Day
Quivers (Volcarona) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 128 HP / 142 Def / 96 SAtk / 144 Spd
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz
Pudsy (Venusaur) @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
POWERBALL (Forretress) @ Leftovers
EVs: 240 HP / 8 Atk / 220 Def / 40 SAtk
IVs: 0 Spd
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Gyro Ball
- Rapid Spin
- Volt Switch
WtfIsThis (Kyurem-Black) @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 84 Atk / 208 SAtk / 216 Spd
- Ice Beam
- Fusion Bolt
- Earth Power
Angry (Terrakion) @ Focus Sash
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
- Stealth Rock
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
Last edited by StillexNacht; Jan 19th, 2013 at 2:38:34 PM.
|Jan 19th, 2013, 12:15:56 AM||#2|
Join Date: Jun 2008
Great team, really liking this new take on Sun Offense. Refreshing, considering how rampant rain has become in the meta. As for nitpicks, a few minor things:
1. Consider running a Timid Venusaur. It seems almost frivolous to make it even faster, but the last thing you need while rampaging through a team is to be revenged by a bitter Scarf Lati@s or (God forbid) Scarfmie. With Life Orb and Growth, you're still decently powerful, and you don't miss out on any notable KO's as far as I can remember.
2. Also possibly consider running Sunny Day on Ninetales. As it stands, Ninetales is the fastest weather inducer in the game, so it will always have the disadvantage if up against a slower starter. Running Sunny Day keeps momentum in your hands (if there's a weather war) and allows you to force their starter out, giving you a chance to use Roar (to scout the switch in) or Will-o-Wisp (to burn the switch-in).
3. SashRakion really appreciates Taunt, especially if you decide to lead with him. His speed allows him to shut down Deoxys-D or Jirachi or most other hazard setters. I know you have Forretress to clean up hazards, but it can easily be worn down, especially if it's taking tons of Outrages and whatnot. An extra layer of insurance is always helpful, and you don't lose too much without X-Scissor.
Great team again, and I hope to have helped! Good luck.
Venusaur: Modest -> Timid, 48 HP / 252 SAtk / 204 Spd
Ninetales: Energy Ball -> Sunny Day
Terrakion: X-Scissor -> Taunt
"Spinda, Teeter Dance!"
"Roselia, Petal Dance!"
"Altaria, Dragon Dance!"
Got My Groove On!
|Jan 19th, 2013, 2:47:40 AM||#3|
Join Date: May 2011
Good Team, known only threat a fairly large, you have 5 Pokemon that are perfectly stalled by SDef Heatran, or Ninetales, Venusaur, Kyurem-B, Forretress, the only one who can kill Heatran is Terrakion, but has as its main aim is to put Stealth Rock and create pressure on Tyranitar. Dugtrio does the same thing, more traps Heatran and Tyranitar and kills them, then I would say Dugtrio> Terrakion, which places the Stealth Rock as does Terrakion, puts pressure on Tyranitar (actually kills him directly), Focus Sash can also give it also to Dugtrio. In addition, Dugtrio freeing you from Tyranitar, takes away the Sandstorm making you keep the Sun throughout the battle.
You can also use Memento of Dugtrio, another major move, that the Sweeper round opponent for example Rock Polish Landorus that is a great threat, you can use Memento, for decrease statistics and to enter or Volcarona and Venusaur who would use their Growth and Quiever Dance with more confidence.
The second thing is to change the nature and evs to Venusaur because with those who currently is outpaced by Scarf Latios and killed by his Psyshock, so the first tip is to include this spread Evs: 180 Spd / 252 SAtk / 72 HP Timid Nature, thus bypassing Latios in speed, you have the maximum evs in special attack and the rest in HP. Second thing I would change for Sludge Bomb Sleep Powder, so just hit Latios that creates problems, Sleep Powder also has very little accuracy, if you go wrong, you risk losing Venusaur, which as you say is very important for the team.
Last edited by Mr. Green; Jan 19th, 2013 at 6:31:10 AM.
|Jan 19th, 2013, 9:27:40 AM||#4|
Join Date: Jan 2012
Cool team you have here! I have no so much to say about this team anyway let's start with the rate!
First of all, your team has a big weakness to Rock Polish Landorus. It can setup on Ninetales and Forretress (it resists to Forretress' Hidden Power Ice) and then can sweep your team. Also, you haven't switch into it so when Landorus attacks, it'll KO one your pokčmon. To solve this weakness, I'd use Choice Scarf Latias, replacing Kyurem-B as revenge-kill. Latias is a good revenge-killer too and it can also resist to Landorus' attacks and KO it back with Draco Meteor. I will post Latias' set below in this rate. Then, on Ninetales I'd use Sunny Day, replacing Energy ball. It isn't very useful because it's a very very weak move. Sunny Day otherwise is useful to win more easily the weather war because it make pointless the switch-in of Tyranitar, Hippowdon and Politoed so they will switch again and take damages from Stealth Rock without have any advantage. Finally, I'd change X-Scissor into Sword Dance on Terrakion. This team hasn't problem against Celebi and the other grass-types so X-Scissor is quite a useless move, Sword Dance otherwise allows Terrakion to become a very good stall-breaker and it's simple better than X-Scissor in this team. If you don't like Sword Dance you can use Taunt too, it's fine because Forretress isn't a very good Rapid Spin user and Stealth Rock is problematic for your team.
Anyways, here's the set you should use:
Last edited by Alexander.; Jan 20th, 2013 at 3:03:57 PM. Reason: i made scarf latias with recover lol
|Jan 19th, 2013, 10:32:06 AM||#5|
Doubts will try to break you
Join Date: Nov 2011
Nice sun team you have there. At first glance, from what I see, this team is quite weak to Heatran, which is a quality for many sun teams, so I will base my rate, mostly, off that. Also, I can see fast, hard hitting Choice Scarf users being a problem for your team, as well. First off, I can't see your Forretress accomplishing much of anything with its current set. Its primary purpose in the current metagame is to lay down Spikes or other entry hazards and yours does not do that. There are a few options to remedy this: 1. You can put Spikes over Hidden Power Ice / Gyro Ball. or 2. Replace Forretress with a more offensive spinner such as Donphan. Donphan, unlike Forretress, can threaten any Heatran with a STAB Earthquake and Forretress can't really touch Heatran to begin with. Next, I recommend a Timid Nature with the EV spread of 80 HP / 252 SAtk / 176 Spd and Sludge Bomb > Sleep Powder on Venusaur. With this new EV spread and nature, Venusaur can outspeed all relevant Choice Scarf users such as: Terrakion, Keldeo, and Latios, and become a tad bulkier as a plus. While you lose the ability to put status on an opponent's Pokemon, the gaining of a more volatile moveset, being able to hit dragons like Dragonite which would ultimately be able to set up on you or hit you with a Fire Punch. Back to the Heatran issue, you can run Earth Power > HP Fire on Kyu-B. This change won't affect Kyu-B all that much because the team hits hard with Fire type moves already with Ninetales, Venusaur, and Volcarona. With Earth Power, as previous stated, can hit Heatran, as well as other steel types such as Jirachi, Metagross, Magnezone and others for super effective damage.
With these changes said, great team and good luck!
Last edited by Funkasaurus; Jan 19th, 2013 at 12:06:53 PM.
|Jan 19th, 2013, 1:17:35 PM||#6|
Join Date: Oct 2012
I see a pretty big weakness to Heatran. Heatran is one the most common problem for a sun team, because thanks to its ability it can absorb your attacks and become very dangerous. Ninetales cant touch it, Venusaur can put it asleep, but its only a question of time that it will wake up and then it kos you with a fire move. Kyurem struggles to do anything serious, outrage is resisted, forretress will just die by a lava plume, and Volcarona cant touch it while Heatran can phaze it or toxic it. Terrakion is your only answer to it, but everyone will just switch to something else so you cant really damage it. As other raters already said, you also lack of any ground resistor, and it goes without saying that Mamoswine, Landorus and other ground types are a problem for you. Mamoswine also has a strong ice shard that can revenge kill your venusaur regardless, an overall good bulkyness to take a flametrower from ninetales and kos with earthquake (its ability, thick fat, will half the power of fire moves) it its jolly it can even outspeed Volcarona, Kyurem and Terrakion can beat it but cant switch out on it. Forretress can handle hit, but still it takes many damage from Lo earthquake, with some prior damages its 2koed. Landorus in other hand, with just stealth rock support and rock polish, can shuts down your whole team no matter what.
Now, the first thing i would do to fix this weaknesses is to change Kyurem, which is good and all, but it doesnt really do anything for this team. Its speed stat is not the best, and its typing doesnt help with the sinergy of this team. Instead of it i would suggest an Air ballon Heatran with Fire Blast / Earth power / Hidden power ice. In the 4th slot you can experiment what you prefer. You can try Sunny day, which in conjunction with Magma storm as your fire stab can trap things like Politoed, setup then sun, so that you can win the weather war easily. If it doent fit you, you can try Flame charge as your filler move, so that once you have the sun up you can try to sweep. Anyway, Heatran with Earth power generally counters specially defensive version of Heatran, which is the most common version you will see nowadays. Heatran isnt even that bad overall, it has an high special attack so that it can spam strong fire blast to weaken your opponent. Hidden power ice is your preferred move of coverage, which also kos any dragon locked into outrage. Also, the air baloon helps a little agianst ground types, for sure Landorus can still focus blast on you and Mamoswine jolly can have superpower, but at least you have an immunity to ground so that you can switch in on other threats like Hippodown or donphan. Ill try to fix better the weakness against Mamoswine and landorus later anyway.
Now, i would honestly change forretress. Since you ahve now heatran, you dont need anymore forretress as your steel type, since Heatran beats Dragons like Salamence or Dragonite and its an overall better switch-in to Latios and Latias. What i think fits here is Donphan. The set i would use is the standard one, with Ice shard / Earthquake / Rapid spin / Stealth rock. Since ill change the set of terrakion, i put the sr on donphan. Donphan can support your team with his weak ice shard, which is still enough to do serious damage to Landorus and dragons, and its also a nice pokemon against Scarf Terrakion, which is a threath for this team. Donphan also gives you an another pokemon to beat Special defensive Heatran, unless they burn you with Lava plume.
Now, since i removed your scarfed pokemon as well as your stealth rocker, its clear that your Terrakion should be Scarf now. Terrakion is a way better scarfer thanks to its higher speed, and it functions pretty well in any weather. This is something that any revenge killer should be able to do, you cant always rely on Venusaur to outspeed stuff. Its coverage is good to hit anything in the tier and its still enough powerfull to ko things. This helps you because your team isnt really fast, the only fast thing here is Venusaur but if theres no sun up a pletora of things can outspeed your whole team and damage it.
Now, to give something else to beat Mamoswine, i would simply put some other evs in speed on Volcarona to outspeed mamoswine and kill it. I will also change your spread completely, since i dont see the point of not maxing the Hp first. this evs should work, try it : EVs: 248 HP / 64 Def / 196 Spd
I think you should also take in account sunny day over energy ball. Energy ball is pretty much an useless move, only hitting gastrodon, and while energy ball hits supereffectively politoed and tyranitar, you have a bigger advantage if you put the sun up again while they switch in. Also, use timid Venusaur as the other raters already said.
Thats it i guess, i hope i helped somewhat.
|Jan 19th, 2013, 2:35:26 PM||#7|
Join Date: Jan 2013
ninetails energy ball -> sunny day. yeah that was pretty obvious
venusaur -> timid. again, it's just better.
terrakion x-scissor-> taunt. to be honest, i'm quite suprised by terrakion's damage. i'd originally included this with alakazam and latios in mind, but stone edge works just fine
kyurem b HP fire -> earth power. way better for the purpose, didn't know he could learn it
all valid changes
regarding dutrio vs. terrakion. While dugtrio succesfully kills tyranitar on a lead in, and heatran on the switch, these are only 2 pokemon. Dugtrio is a terribly squishy, and in, worse, not particularly good in the offense department. I would rather have a terrakion against anything from a shell smashing cloyster, to a ddnite, to any number of threats.
I decided that a specialized counter to 2 pokemon, one of which i can already deal with, isn't particularly great. especially considering that dugtrio only counters either of them after i let something die, and is otherwise kinda useless.
terrakion is a solid counter (though not as good as a full health dugtrio) (way better than a non-full health one though) 2 both those threats, while diversifying what i can deal with easily.
regarding heatran- most people these days seem to be running special heatran, which is why i wasnt partiiicularly worried about him. Volcarona can tank purely special sets with a combo of quiver dances and roosts. Terrakion also OHKOs with close combat.
however, a phazing toxic heatrans presents a much larger problem... added earth power to kyurem, considering hp earth on venusaur
thinking about replacing kyurem-B, but it's just so nice as a lead against rain teams T.T. Will have to test that out.
@ funk regarding forretress not having spikes. His job is to patch up my weakness to outrage. I cannot afford to give a bunch of unresisted outrages to an opponent. Forretress is acting as a defensive pivot here, not as an entry hazard user. Think jellicient except for dragons.
mamoswine is not a real threat, as if my venusaur starts sweeping, it will be at 90% health or near because of giga drain recovery. ice shard fails to OHKO even if banded
though, speaking of venusaur, perhaps i should add hidden power ground instead of fire? i lose coverage on grass types, but they are unlikely to be able to match boosted giga-drains anyway i think... usnure
Last edited by StillexNacht; Jan 19th, 2013 at 2:49:27 PM.
|Jan 19th, 2013, 4:43:47 PM||#8|
*An official Yuki-Chan fan*
Join Date: Jan 2012
Si tu veux savoir, pourquoi viendrais-tu pas chez moi ?! Puis ce n'est pas loin.
Welcome on Smogon, I hope you will amuse you, it's a team very interesting, first I see that you are weak against Terrakion, you have nothing to tank his Close Combat properly, then you are 6-0'd if the opponent has Terrakion SD/salac Berry and Forretress is 2HKO by Close Combat of the Choice band, then even if you put Terrakion, the opponent can choose to switch and come after to continue. Your team is offensive, so can I suggest you put a Stall on a sweeper, but you can swap Forretress with Donphan, Donphan is a very good pokemon for your team as Neliel says, it can tank Terrakion, and it is a very good spinner, then now you can counter easily Dragonite/Salamence.
Then your team is very disadvantaged against Heatran, because Donphan is not a very good special tank and it is 2HKO by Fireblast/Flamethrower and 3HKO by Lava plume (Heatran Stall), Terrakion is a sweeper and it may take an Earth Power, then even if you put Kyurem the opponent can switch because it is obvious, I suggest you EarthQuake or Hidden power Ground on a pokemon who attracts Heatran easily like Volcarona or Venusaur, but as Volcarona can not lose roost because it does not have Leftovers I suggest you swap Sleep Powder with Earthquake on Venusaur, now you can easily kill Heatran, Jirachi.
Then swap Energy Ball with Sunny day on Ninetales, Energy ball is useless here, with sunny day you can anticipate Tyranitar, Politoed, Hippodown, Abomasnow and switch to keep the advantage because the opponent is forced to switch to prevent you from place you. And swap Will-O-Wisp with Toxic because you are very disadvantaged against Volcarona, because even if you possess Roar you can not kill him after, Terrakion is 2HKO by Fire Blast under Sun after a Quiver Dance and generally Volcarona has Hidden Power ground or Giga Drain. Now you can come on him with toxic + Roar.
For Terrakion I suggest you Sword Dance on X-Scissor, with this move you can set up you to facilitate the sweep of Venusaure/Volcarona, then you can Sword Dance on Forretress which can come Rapid Spinn and kill him after, Skarmory also.
Hope I Helped and Good Luck with your Team.