Simple Questions & Simple Answers & General Resources (OU Edition) MK II - Page 42

hotcoldyay · Jan 17th, 2013, 10:08:29 PM

Is kingdra viable on hyper offense teams? Can dragon pulse be used over draco meteor? How are life orb numbers calculated? And can hp fire be viable on kingdra, in both rain and weatherless?

alkinesthetase · Jan 17th, 2013, 10:13:56 PM

LO number is 10n-1 where n is any natural number (1,2,3,4 etc). pretty easy to see the logic if you think about rounding 10%. frankly though these numbers are like never relevant lol

kingdra is an unusual choice but it has its uses. it's not really a question of "does this fit hyper offense?", more "does this fit my team?" hp fire kingdra sucks in most circumstances since you're basically running it to counterteam rain, and stab rainpump is practically as strong as hp fire. as for dmeteor vs dpulse, you are never going to sweep with dmeteor so it's kind of a question of what you want to do with it. specs king for example can run double stab double stab (surf/dpulse for sweeping, dmeteor/hpump for smash)

lokt · Jan 17th, 2013, 10:45:27 PM

Something that I've read alot of is about a certain ev-spread getting a "bonus point" in a stat. Can someone explain to me what this means?

Lady Alex · Jan 17th, 2013, 10:58:33 PM

Are there any tools that help with EV spread efficiency?

LilOuOn · Jan 17th, 2013, 11:17:29 PM

Lokt, i don't know a lot about this but i can try to answer with my knowledge :]
Think about Genesect. He got download so you use it with uturn when you get the att boost and you use an special att move when you get the satk boost. Know, a good spread for Scarf gene was 8 Atk / 248 Satk / 252 spe. The 8 evs in Atk allows him to get those bonus points when he gets the atk boost, now, i dont know how does it work but i know that you get extra points. Is that what you were looking for? Sorry if i didnt have the correct answer :[

Quote:

Are there any tools that help with EV spread efficiency?

What do you mean by tools? Because if you want to know which amount of speed evs should your "x" pokemon run to outspeed certain threat you can use smogon strategy dex.

alkinesthetase · Jan 17th, 2013, 11:30:34 PM

it's not really a "bonus" point, although i suppose the alternative is losing a point.

in the example you gave, gene's original spread was 4 atk / 252 satk. this makes both its offenses odd, so when you add 50% (for a +1 from download), they round down and lose half a point (each). moving 4 evs from satk to atk makes both of them even. if you have a +1 satk boost, your net satk is the same (because the .5 point wasn't contributing), but if you get a +1 atk boost, now you've gained 1 point of attack (because you added another .5 point).

similarly when EVing pokemon, if you give them a +nature in a stat, you're getting +10% rounded down. floor(200*1.1) = 220, floor(201*1.1)=221 (221.1 but the .1 is truncated off). so on and so forth until you get to 209*1.1=229, and 210*1.1=231. this is generally what is meant by a "free point"; you invested 4 more EVs to get one point and you got an extra one because of the +nature, the extra point happens all at once because of the truncation of the "partial points"

tl;dr it's all a matter of divisibility and floor functions

hoblaph · Jan 18th, 2013, 4:36:30 PM

Is it worth it to use a Pokemon who is only effective at walling one classification of attacks? My friend is telling me dedicated special walls, such as Blissey or and Chansey, and dedicated physical walls, such as Forrtress, Skarmory, and Gliscor, should not be used as they can be easily taken down by the other classification.

EDIT: This applies to both Gen IV and Gen V. How could Blissey not be good in Gen IV?

rolrctermaniac · Jan 18th, 2013, 7:33:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Lord of Bays

The purpose is to make Vaporeon a bit of a mixed wall, if I'm analyzing it correctly. It already has base 90 SpDef and that's backed up by base 130 HP. You're already taking a lot of resisted special hits very well (Fire, Water, Ice), but base 60 Def leaves a lot to be desired.

I'd argue alakazam and maybe starmie give her a lick of trouble on that list.

...

as you can see vap stands up very well to those threats. heck, this set does sucha good job at counttering tornadus -t i am dumbfounded when I see people complain about it on the forums.

let me rephrase my question, what pokes specifically make physically def more worth it than specially defensive?

alkinesthetase · Jan 18th, 2013, 7:36:22 PM

lol at your friend

it's definitely an oversimplification to say that the only good walls are mixed walls, because if that was true there would be almost no good walls at all >_> obviously you don't switch blisseys into physical attackers blind and you don't switch skarm into rainpumps.

it could be argued that one-sided walls have troubling vulnerabilities, but really it sounds more like your friend has never heard of switching and assumes that once you send skarm/bliss in, you leave it there until it dies... which is obviously an incompetent way to play the game.

to address the phrasing of your question "is it worth it", that depends a lot on your team. unless you're running full stall (in which you need a certain number of defensive pokemon on each side of the spectrum), chances are you're going to run a defensive pokemon not just for the bulk, but also as an anchor against certain things that threaten your team, or for the utility and support they provide to more offensive components (eg hazards, status spreading). in that case, "whether or not it's worth it" depends intimately on the pokemon you choose and on the team you intend to fit it on

i hope this kind of addresses your question? sounds like you shouldn't be taking your friend's advice too seriously, if that's actually his/her opinion

EDIT: oh and i forgot this earlier. with respect to EV efficiency, http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19760 is the tool you should be using. it's not updated for gen V mons, but it's p easy to hack them into the java if you've got nothing to do and feel like decompiling a jar

@rolrctermaniac: the usefulness of physical defense vs special defense depends on the mon. mons like virizion tend to invest in physical defense because water has very few weaknesses and they're almost exclusively special, which means you can take a lot of hits neutrally if you have the bulk - hence the term "bulky water"
EDIT: erm... it's p tough to find specific examples. people could make a 20 page thread about pdef forry vs sdef forry and still wouldn't get anywhere. sdef skarm vs pdef skarm, same thing. sdef celebi vs pdef celebi, same thing. arguably one spread is more "standard" than the other (normally you invest in the defense that your resistances and stats will help the most with - hence heatran is usually sdef, celebi is usually sdef, skarmory/forry are usually physdef), but it's not as if there are no justifications for splitting the defenses a different way. even on pokemon as lopsided as blissey and chansey, there are reasons to invest in special defense (specspumps in rain). i think it would be a careless generalization to say, for a given mon, that investment in a single defense is unarguably superior to investment in the other.

rolrctermaniac · Jan 18th, 2013, 8:48:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat alkinesthetase

lol at your friend
@rolrctermaniac: the usefulness of physical defense vs special defense depends on the mon. mons like virizion tend to invest in physical defense because water has very few weaknesses and they're almost exclusively special, which means you can take a lot of hits neutrally if you have the bulk - hence the term "bulky water"
EDIT: erm... it's p tough to find specific examples. people could make a 20 page thread about pdef forry vs sdef forry and still wouldn't get anywhere. sdef skarm vs pdef skarm, same thing. sdef celebi vs pdef celebi, same thing. arguably one spread is more "standard" than the other (normally you invest in the defense that your resistances and stats will help the most with - hence heatran is usually sdef, celebi is usually sdef, skarmory/forry are usually physdef), but it's not as if there are no justifications for splitting the defenses a different way. even on pokemon as lopsided as blissey and chansey, there are reasons to invest in special defense (specspumps in rain). i think it would be a careless generalization to say, for a given mon, that investment in a single defense is unarguably superior to investment in the other.

Thanks for the great response, I wish people would give SP def vap a try D:

Gary2346 · Jan 18th, 2013, 9:27:27 PM

I see that many are already coming to a conclusion that the OU council has pretty much decided that Torn-T is Uber and Keldeo is OU. Is the final results posted somewhere or are people just getting info from other voters? It's been awhile and usually it seems that the results would be up by now. If it is posted I can't seem to find the thread.

alkinesthetase · Jan 18th, 2013, 9:29:15 PM

the votes are in the topic of #suspect (hit it up on IRC) but it's not really official since the thread has not yet been closed

Seth Vilo · Jan 18th, 2013, 10:08:24 PM

To expand on that, currently at the time of this post, the results are as follows according to #suspect:

Keldeo: 60 OU / 11 Uber / 7 abstain; 85% OU
Tornadus-T: 22 OU / 52 Uber / 4 abstain; 70% Uber

78 of the 82 voters have voted, so it's done and there is a supermajority already for both. Just closing the thread and changing Showdown left until Tornadus-T gets the blazes out of OU.

Zowayix · Jan 19th, 2013, 12:36:55 AM

What exactly is the reason for Darmanitan-Z to exist in Limbo tier? If it's just to document the base stats, types, and sprite of an alternate form that technically can't be directly put on a team, then why isn't Meloetta-P there also?

LilOuOn · Jan 19th, 2013, 8:00:36 AM

I think that Meloetta is not Limbo just because she is too powerful for RU with speed higher than Tornadus-T in Piruette form and awesome Attacking stats in both forms. While Darmantan is placed in UU because some factors and Zen mode is something that no one uses and it is so unestable that it might be hard to decide a tier.

BurningMan · Jan 19th, 2013, 9:25:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Zowayix

What exactly is the reason for Darmanitan-Z to exist in Limbo tier? If it's just to document the base stats, types, and sprite of an alternate form that technically can't be directly put on a team, then why isn't Meloetta-P there also?

It's propably some database error Meloetta-P also has some parts of Meloettas OU analysis i think someone just messed up a little when they uploaded the Meloetta analysis.
You are also right in your assumption that the limbo tier only exists to showcase Stats, Sprite, Movepool of a Pokemon that isn't released yet or is some kind of forme that can't be brought into battle directly.

RabidChipmunk · Jan 19th, 2013, 10:25:32 AM

When will the results of the suspect test be officially implemented?

LilOuOn · Jan 19th, 2013, 10:41:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat RabidChipmunk

When will the results of the suspect test be officially implemented?

They will be official when you see the thread closed. But the results are obvious, there are only 4 participants that didnt vote so it doesnt matter if they choose OU or Ubers. Keldeo is going to OU and Tornadus to Ubers.

Erico9001 · Jan 19th, 2013, 12:49:22 PM

People in showdown keep saying tornadus-t got banned from ou, is it?

Novaray · Jan 19th, 2013, 12:51:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Erico9001

People in showdown keep saying tornadus-t got banned from ou, is it?

Yes it is banned and it is now Uber on PS

hotcoldyay · Jan 19th, 2013, 7:27:42 PM

Can calm mind latios fill the same shoes as work up virizion if it were to replace virizion on a team as a set up yet hit hard without set up sweeper? Edit: btw thanks to anyone who answered my last question :)

Shurtugal · Jan 19th, 2013, 8:04:07 PM

Not really since Virizion has completely different typing (important differences is hitting Tyranitar and then being weak to Specs Torn).

hotcoldyay · Jan 19th, 2013, 8:08:54 PM

Kk...could I replace kingdra on a team? Speaking of torn t, since its banned, can virizion come back to ou?

Shurtugal · Jan 19th, 2013, 8:14:22 PM

I would need to know more of your team to answer that.

As for Virizion, I'm quite certain its mediocre offensive stat is what has restrained it from OU, that alongside Torn-I

hotcoldyay · Jan 19th, 2013, 9:02:57 PM

I currently have fast spike deo d, work up virizion, dd dragonite, sd offensive scizor, rain dance kingdra, and sash destiny bond gengar.

Jan 17th, 2013, 10:08:29 PM	#1026
hotcoldyay Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 174	Is kingdra viable on hyper offense teams? Can dragon pulse be used over draco meteor? How are life orb numbers calculated? And can hp fire be viable on kingdra, in both rain and weatherless? __________________ Black FC- 1377 6936 4444 It's not about the destination: it's the fun in the journey. But I think Ash has took that far enough in the anime.

Jan 17th, 2013, 10:13:56 PM	#1027
alkinesthetase <MrE> SPIDERS /\/\;,,;/\/\ Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 697 <ala> canadabros is the strongest bros you can be Mentor	LO number is 10n-1 where n is any natural number (1,2,3,4 etc). pretty easy to see the logic if you think about rounding 10%. frankly though these numbers are like never relevant lol kingdra is an unusual choice but it has its uses. it's not really a question of "does this fit hyper offense?", more "does this fit my team?" hp fire kingdra sucks in most circumstances since you're basically running it to counterteam rain, and stab rainpump is practically as strong as hp fire. as for dmeteor vs dpulse, you are never going to sweep with dmeteor so it's kind of a question of what you want to do with it. specs king for example can run double stab double stab (surf/dpulse for sweeping, dmeteor/hpump for smash) __________________ <%yee> i will summon a spider to kill alkines my massive mafia roles list

Jan 17th, 2013, 10:58:33 PM	#1029
Lady Alex So, I dashed all over the mansion, and I re-killed them; they were pretty alive when I found them Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 418 Stuck between a Stealth Rock and a hard place	Are there any tools that help with EV spread efficiency? __________________

Jan 17th, 2013, 11:30:34 PM	#1031
alkinesthetase <MrE> SPIDERS /\/\;,,;/\/\ Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 697 <ala> canadabros is the strongest bros you can be Mentor	it's not really a "bonus" point, although i suppose the alternative is losing a point. in the example you gave, gene's original spread was 4 atk / 252 satk. this makes both its offenses odd, so when you add 50% (for a +1 from download), they round down and lose half a point (each). moving 4 evs from satk to atk makes both of them even. if you have a +1 satk boost, your net satk is the same (because the .5 point wasn't contributing), but if you get a +1 atk boost, now you've gained 1 point of attack (because you added another .5 point). similarly when EVing pokemon, if you give them a +nature in a stat, you're getting +10% rounded down. floor(2001.1) = 220, floor(2011.1)=221 (221.1 but the .1 is truncated off). so on and so forth until you get to 2091.1=229, and 2101.1=231. this is generally what is meant by a "free point"; you invested 4 more EVs to get one point and you got an extra one because of the +nature, the extra point happens all at once because of the truncation of the "partial points" tl;dr it's all a matter of divisibility and floor functions __________________ <%yee> i will summon a spider to kill alkines my massive mafia roles list

Jan 18th, 2013, 4:36:30 PM	#1032
hoblaph Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 215 Canada	Is it worth it to use a Pokemon who is only effective at walling one classification of attacks? My friend is telling me dedicated special walls, such as Blissey or and Chansey, and dedicated physical walls, such as Forrtress, Skarmory, and Gliscor, should not be used as they can be easily taken down by the other classification. EDIT: This applies to both Gen IV and Gen V. How could Blissey not be good in Gen IV? __________________ ASB Profile \| "Nous faisons le mal, mais nous le faisons bien." "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world."

Jan 17th, 2013, 10:45:27 PM	#1028
lokt Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 108	Something that I've read alot of is about a certain ev-spread getting a "bonus point" in a stat. Can someone explain to me what this means?

Jan 18th, 2013, 7:36:22 PM	#1034
alkinesthetase <MrE> SPIDERS /\/\;,,;/\/\ Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 697 <ala> canadabros is the strongest bros you can be Mentor	lol at your friend it's definitely an oversimplification to say that the only good walls are mixed walls, because if that was true there would be almost no good walls at all >_> obviously you don't switch blisseys into physical attackers blind and you don't switch skarm into rainpumps. it could be argued that one-sided walls have troubling vulnerabilities, but really it sounds more like your friend has never heard of switching and assumes that once you send skarm/bliss in, you leave it there until it dies... which is obviously an incompetent way to play the game. to address the phrasing of your question "is it worth it", that depends a lot on your team. unless you're running full stall (in which you need a certain number of defensive pokemon on each side of the spectrum), chances are you're going to run a defensive pokemon not just for the bulk, but also as an anchor against certain things that threaten your team, or for the utility and support they provide to more offensive components (eg hazards, status spreading). in that case, "whether or not it's worth it" depends intimately on the pokemon you choose and on the team you intend to fit it on i hope this kind of addresses your question? sounds like you shouldn't be taking your friend's advice too seriously, if that's actually his/her opinion EDIT: oh and i forgot this earlier. with respect to EV efficiency, http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19760 is the tool you should be using. it's not updated for gen V mons, but it's p easy to hack them into the java if you've got nothing to do and feel like decompiling a jar @rolrctermaniac: the usefulness of physical defense vs special defense depends on the mon. mons like virizion tend to invest in physical defense because water has very few weaknesses and they're almost exclusively special, which means you can take a lot of hits neutrally if you have the bulk - hence the term "bulky water" EDIT: erm... it's p tough to find specific examples. people could make a 20 page thread about pdef forry vs sdef forry and still wouldn't get anywhere. sdef skarm vs pdef skarm, same thing. sdef celebi vs pdef celebi, same thing. arguably one spread is more "standard" than the other (normally you invest in the defense that your resistances and stats will help the most with - hence heatran is usually sdef, celebi is usually sdef, skarmory/forry are usually physdef), but it's not as if there are no justifications for splitting the defenses a different way. even on pokemon as lopsided as blissey and chansey, there are reasons to invest in special defense (specspumps in rain). i think it would be a careless generalization to say, for a given mon, that investment in a single defense is unarguably superior to investment in the other. __________________ <%yee> i will summon a spider to kill alkines my massive mafia roles list Last edited by alkinesthetase; Jan 18th, 2013 at 7:48:10 PM.

Jan 18th, 2013, 9:27:27 PM	#1036
Gary2346 Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 426 Hooters	I see that many are already coming to a conclusion that the OU council has pretty much decided that Torn-T is Uber and Keldeo is OU. Is the final results posted somewhere or are people just getting info from other voters? It's been awhile and usually it seems that the results would be up by now. If it is posted I can't seem to find the thread. __________________ PM or VM me for an OU RMT Rate! Check out my YouTube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheGary2346 It's still in the works, but you get the point.

Jan 18th, 2013, 9:29:15 PM	#1037
alkinesthetase <MrE> SPIDERS /\/\;,,;/\/\ Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 697 <ala> canadabros is the strongest bros you can be Mentor	the votes are in the topic of #suspect (hit it up on IRC) but it's not really official since the thread has not yet been closed __________________ <%yee> i will summon a spider to kill alkines my massive mafia roles list

Jan 18th, 2013, 10:08:24 PM	#1038
Seth Vilo Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 426 US East Coast	To expand on that, currently at the time of this post, the results are as follows according to #suspect: Keldeo: 60 OU / 11 Uber / 7 abstain; 85% OU Tornadus-T: 22 OU / 52 Uber / 4 abstain; 70% Uber 78 of the 82 voters have voted, so it's done and there is a supermajority already for both. Just closing the thread and changing Showdown left until Tornadus-T gets the blazes out of OU. __________________ This is a haiku. Sometimes haiku's do not rhyme. Refrigerator. Professional Lurker since March, 2009 (And it's Vilo: veye-low, like the i in pie) {Projects: How do I pronounce that Pokemon...?; ...}

Jan 19th, 2013, 12:36:55 AM	#1039
Zowayix Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 325 USA	What exactly is the reason for Darmanitan-Z to exist in Limbo tier? If it's just to document the base stats, types, and sprite of an alternate form that technically can't be directly put on a team, then why isn't Meloetta-P there also? __________________ Writing a haiku With seventeen syllables Is really diffi--

Jan 19th, 2013, 8:00:36 AM	#1040
LilOuOn Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 474 Stay and wait	I think that Meloetta is not Limbo just because she is too powerful for RU with speed higher than Tornadus-T in Piruette form and awesome Attacking stats in both forms. While Darmantan is placed in UU because some factors and Zen mode is something that no one uses and it is so unestable that it might be hard to decide a tier. __________________ "Hax is actually the game deity teaching us the value of effort and humility, and, without it; we will be just playing another chess game. If somebody EVER haxes you and says he embraces it, just chill, take the nearest glass and break it, and remember: they're only dick-riders." LilOu

Jan 19th, 2013, 10:25:32 AM	#1042
RabidChipmunk Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 200 Serenity now, sanity later.	When will the results of the suspect test be officially implemented? __________________ http://www.youtube.com/user/TheRabidChipmunk Check out my channel for Pokemon B2/W2 Wi-Fi battles! B2/W2 FC: 1378-5087-0752 I use legal hacks.

Jan 19th, 2013, 12:49:22 PM	#1044
Erico9001 Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 14 United States	People in showdown keep saying tornadus-t got banned from ou, is it? __________________ ¸´……....…Êrîçô 9001……...…`¸ ‘‹,¸¸,«^^»,¸:)¸,«^^»,¸¸,‹’

Jan 19th, 2013, 7:27:42 PM	#1046
hotcoldyay Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 174	Can calm mind latios fill the same shoes as work up virizion if it were to replace virizion on a team as a set up yet hit hard without set up sweeper? Edit: btw thanks to anyone who answered my last question :) __________________ Black FC- 1377 6936 4444 It's not about the destination: it's the fun in the journey. But I think Ash has took that far enough in the anime. Last edited by hotcoldyay; Jan 19th, 2013 at 7:42:34 PM.

Jan 19th, 2013, 8:04:07 PM	#1047
Shurtugal Teach love to all the little birds! Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 819 Florida	Not really since Virizion has completely different typing (important differences is hitting Tyranitar and then being weak to Specs Torn). __________________ If you want your team rated; feel free to PM or VM me for your own, personalized rate! If you want to learn how to battle and win; check out my guide! Feel free to check out my team in OU that peaked #1!

Jan 19th, 2013, 8:08:54 PM	#1048
hotcoldyay Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 174	Kk...could I replace kingdra on a team? Speaking of torn t, since its banned, can virizion come back to ou? __________________ Black FC- 1377 6936 4444 It's not about the destination: it's the fun in the journey. But I think Ash has took that far enough in the anime.

Jan 19th, 2013, 8:14:22 PM	#1049
Shurtugal Teach love to all the little birds! Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 819 Florida	I would need to know more of your team to answer that. As for Virizion, I'm quite certain its mediocre offensive stat is what has restrained it from OU, that alongside Torn-I __________________ If you want your team rated; feel free to PM or VM me for your own, personalized rate! If you want to learn how to battle and win; check out my guide! Feel free to check out my team in OU that peaked #1!

Jan 19th, 2013, 9:02:57 PM	#1050
hotcoldyay Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 174	I currently have fast spike deo d, work up virizion, dd dragonite, sd offensive scizor, rain dance kingdra, and sash destiny bond gengar. __________________ Black FC- 1377 6936 4444 It's not about the destination: it's the fun in the journey. But I think Ash has took that far enough in the anime.