Black and White Kyurem

[trickroom]

Kyurem-B's usage in OU has nothing to do with Ubers. Also don't be silly, Lugia does check Kyurem-B with Toxic which is Lugia's main move, also phazing isn't checking then what is, since you never going to kill Lugia anyway lol. How is Kyurem-B beating Kyogre easily? You are 2HKOed by Scarf Water Spout.

Reflect easily foils that KO which isn't even guaranteed. More like your set always loses to Lugia one-on-one. All Lugia has to do is Toxic you, Roost off the damage or Reflect next turn, and phaze you out when needed. If you Sub, Lugia puts up Reflect first and Whirlwind you out. It can just Toxic you when you come in again.

Kyurem-B is inferior compared to Zekrom overall because Kyurem-B only has STAB Outrage as a powerful move and weakness to hazard sucks.

[Dungeons]

Originally Posted by Fat trickroom

Kyurem-B's usage in OU has nothing to do with Ubers. Also don't be silly, Lugia does check Kyurem-B with Toxic which is Lugia's main move, also phazing isn't checking then what is, since you never going to kill Lugia anyway lol. How is Kyurem-B beating Kyogre easily? You are 2HKOed by Scarf Water Spout.

Reflect easily foils that KO which isn't even guaranteed. More like your set always loses to Lugia one-on-one. All Lugia has to do is Toxic you, Roost off the damage or Reflect next turn, and phaze you out when needed. If you Sub, Lugia puts up Reflect first and Whirlwind you out. It can just Toxic you when you come in again.

Kyurem-B is inferior compared to Zekrom overall because Kyurem-B only has STAB Outrage as a powerful move and weakness to hazard sucks.

maybe choice band + STAB Freeze Shock but Lugia is a pain in the first place... at and whirlwind sucks lol

[nmitchell890]

As someone who has used Kyurem-B extensively in OU, I would be intrigued to see how effective SubRoost Hone Claws is in Ubers. In OU it sets up on any and all bulky water types (except Politoed with Encore or Perish Song) and literally wears down entire teams. Would the same be possible here?

[Melee Mewtwo]

I checked it in Honko's calc and the set is getting OHKO'd way to easily by just about every DM and Outrage in the tier. So no, it's not viable in Ubers.

[Go10]

Zekrom can already do the same job, with better typing.

[ElectivireRocks]

Bump.

Kyurem-B has been massively overlooked for a long time now so I think it's time to discuss about what it can do.

I think Kyu-B is currently the best physical choice scarf dragon in ubers.

Before, you say "Garchomp", let's compare their differences for a second (keep in mind that I'm talking about Choice Scarf sets)

Kyurem-B:
-170 base attack
-95 base speed
-125/100/95 defenses
-Shallow physical movepool (Outrage, Dragon Claw, Fusion Bolt, Stone Edge)
-Usable 120 base special attack with access to STAB Ice Beam
-SR weakness
-water, electric and grass resistances, fire and ice neutralities, 2x rock/fighting/steel weakness

Garchomp:
-130 base attack
-102 base speed
-108/95/85 defenses
-A physical movepool that is almost as shallow as Kyurem-B's, the only differences being STAB Earthquake in place of Fusion Bolt and Fire Fang(lol)
-Low 80 base special attack and access to non-STAB Fire Blast
-SR resistance
-4x ice weakness, electric immunity, fire resistance, grass and water neutralities

-Garchomp's main advantage over Kyu-B is being able to outspeed Choice Scarf Plakia
-The other advantage is access to STAB Earthquake, which helps against Dialga and Excadrill
-...however it's usually not powerful enough to get past bulkier steel types like Ferrothorn, forcing it to run its weak fire attacks
-130 base attack is only average in ubers, forcing Garchomp to use Outrage over Dragon Claw most of the time
-Being locked into Earthquake in a choice set is always bad, especially in ubers where things like Ice Beam Lugia can easily dispatch it with Ice Beam
-Fire Fang and Fire Blast are just too weak, especially in a tier where rain is extremely common. If getting locked into EQ is bad, getting locked into a fire attack on Chomp is worse. Ferrothorn with Protect can easily scout for a fire attack and turn Scarf Garchomp into set up bait for something else


Kyu-B on the other hand:
-Overkill attack stat means it can invest into bulk instead of maximizing attack
-base 95 speed fails to outrun the common base 100 speed like Palkia, but it's still good enough to outrun base 90's like Zekrom
-Can effectively act as a sleep absorber with Sleep Talk, which is perfectly viable in a choice set
-While Groudon is immune to Fusion Bolt, it must be wary of a possible STAB Ice Beam
-Unlike Garchomp, it can somewhat reliably check Kyogre, the king of ubers
-Fusion Bolt 2HKO's Skarmory, which is a great plus. However it can't beat Forretress and Ferrothorn
-SR weakness is adimttedly bad, but fighting and steel weaknesses aren't really terrible in a tier where Mach Punch and Bullet Punch aren't common
-Choice Scarf Genesect will get a special attack boost against Kyurem-B, which means its Iron Head will fail to KO after SR most of the time


Thoughts?

[Furai]

Garchomp is much better thanks to better STABs (that are actually usable), better Speed, and, most importantly and the one you forgot, SWORDS DANCE. No bullshit Hone Claws. No locking yourself to one move with Choice Band. +2 Attack immediately. This is what seperates Garchomp and Kyurem-B as heaven and earth when compared.

The Ferrothorn argument is EXTREMELY redundant. As it protects, you Substitute. Swords Dance up, 2HKO with EQ. CB Outrage from Kyu-B also 2HKOes.

[superstar]

Originally Posted by Fat ElectivireRocks

Bump.

I think Kyu-B is currently the best physical choice scarf dragon in ubers.

Before, you say "Garchomp", let's compare their differences for a second (keep in mind that I'm talking about Choice Scarf sets)

Furai, he was talking about just Scarf sets. But Zekrom is the best Physical Choice Scarf Dragon in Ubers imo. I think it outclasses Kyurem-B due to an actually usable secondary STAB and lack of Stealth Rock weakness, as well as access to Volt Switch. I'm not really sure why I would use Kyurem-B over Zekrom, I guess if I reallllly wanted to 2HKO Ferrothorn or something, or was desperate to outspeed the never seen Timid max speed Choice Scarf Kyogre. The lack of physical Ice STAB hurts. Garchomp is just too weak to get the job done a lot of the time.