Pokémon X and Y Discussion

[DTC]

Originally Posted by Fat Basileus

85%-90% of the time evolite doesn't do much to help a Pokemon, idk why everyone is begging for some Pokemon to evolve. The only way evolite would become OP is if Pokemon were allowed to hold 2 items, which will never happen.

Eviolite does a ton to help a Pokemon. It may not be enough to make the Pokemon viable, but it certainly is a huge boost.

[Nyara]

Chansey was banned from UU just for that item, and it does a lot for a lot of Pokémon, maybe it's not powerful enough for the excesive-high offensive juggernaut that is OU (even with 1+ of defense, it's really hard to survive 2 attacks at all over there), but it does a lot on UU, RU, and NU.

[Wazzup360]

Originally Posted by Fat Count Serperior

Finally, something concrete.
Although I'm not sure if I should be happy or terrified. Riding a bike back-and-forth to maximise happiness is not what I would call enjoyable. Hopefully it'll be drastically different than the current games.

Maybe new happiness mechanics.

Originally Posted by Fat labarith

Sawk, I think, needs a Dragon Dance variant. If it got +1 to attack, +1 to speed, and +1 to accuracy (Stone edge fix), it'd be pretty silly. It's already got decent coverage, what with CC, SE, EQ, IP... sub IP or EQ for DDV, and it's pretty sick. Sturdy pretty much ensures it gets a DD off (at least on wifi triples), and that's pretty sweet!

Throh really needs Drain Punch... or, preferably, a suped up new signature move drain punch...

And yeah, giving him an evolution so he can have eviolite wouldn't be bad for him, but it would be bad for us since we'd get a crappy evolution that's worthless and no one wants...

I think pretty much they need to focus on making him a TR attacker, which is fairly easy.


Actually, I really want a new pokemon or x that do that. But the problem is the obscenely strong (or weak?) coverage movepool. Imagine Waterfall/FlameCharge/Leaf Blade... on the same pokemon with a decent statted pokemon...

Interesting. Would be cool and fun too see them go OU!

[Flaming Piranha]

How to evolve Sawk/throh: Trade with expert Belt/Black belt???

[CynicalGiant]

Easier EV training and a better way to get the right IVs, please Game Freak.

[Basileus]

Originally Posted by Fat DTC

Eviolite does a ton to help a Pokemon. It may not be enough to make the Pokemon viable, but it certainly is a huge boost.

How many of your Pokemon in standard play use eviolite?

[CynicalGiant]

Originally Posted by Fat Basileus

How many of your Pokemon in standard play use eviolite?

You completely missed the second part of that quote. "It may not be enough to make the Pokemon viable, but it certainly is a huge boost."

[Wazzup360]

Originally Posted by Fat Flaming Piranha

How to evolve Sawk/throh: Trade with expert Belt/Black belt???

Evolutions could be like 10th dans :p

[Flaming Piranha]

Originally Posted by Fat Wazzup360

Evolutions could be like 10th dans :p

Haha, I was actually thinking that too

[Jimera0]

Originally Posted by Fat Cobraroll

http://www.gamefreak.co.jp/blog/dir_english/?p=561


So this is confirmed to be a new mechanic, and not a fancy way of presenting the friendship mechanics to new players.

Ok seriously people? We finally get something concrete to discuss and speculate about and no one has more than a single sentence to say about it? Instead you go on raving about more goddamn evolutions and eviolite.

A new battle mechanism that allows your Pokémon to become even more powerful when the bonds you share grow stronger.

A new battle mechanism. As in a mechanism that affects things IN BATTLE. If the wording is not a translation error or miswording of some sort (possible, the guy's first language is Japanese), that means we're getting something new that actually affects battles directly. I can't possibly see this just being a new way of raising already existing stats; that's a new way to raise your Pokemon, not "a new battle mechanism".

What it almost certainly does mean is one of two things:
1) A new stat replacing or supplementing Happiness that has a more active role in battles.
2) An existing stat or mechanic (most likely Happiness) being changed to have a greater impact on battle.

Depending on how this is implemented, it could fundamentally change the way battling works or just give us another stat on our simulators to set to max before we go into battle. In game, it could negatively impact some old ways of playing and positively impact others.

This is the biggest thing to have been announced by far so far, at least to a competitive community like Smogon. This has the potential to change everything as deeply as the addition of abilities, or to change nothing at all.

In short this is the best goddamn discussion fodder we've been given since they announced it and by damn, I'm going to discuss it.

[CynicalGiant]

Originally Posted by Fat Jimera0

Ok seriously people? We finally get something concrete to discuss and speculate about and no one has more than a single sentence to say about it? Instead you go on raving about more goddamn evolutions and eviolite.



A new battle mechanism. As in a mechanism that affects things IN BATTLE. If the wording is not a translation error or miswording of some sort (possible, the guy's first language is Japanese), that means we're getting something new that actually affects battles directly. I can't possibly see this just being a new way of raising already existing stats; that's a new way to raise your Pokemon, not "a new battle mechanism".

What it almost certainly does mean is one of two things:
1) A new stat replacing or supplementing Happiness that has a more active role in battles.
2) An existing stat or mechanic (most likely Happiness) being changed to have a greater impact on battle.

Depending on how this is implemented, it could fundamentally change the way battling works or just give us another stat on our simulators to set to max before we go into battle. In game, it could negatively impact some old ways of playing and positively impact others.

This is the biggest thing to have been announced by far so far, at least to a competitive community like Smogon. This has the potential to change everything as deeply as the addition of abilities, or to change nothing at all.

In short this is the best goddamn discussion fodder we've been given since they announced it and by damn, I'm going to discuss it.

EVs and IVs make your pokemon stronger in battle right? Maybe they will finally let us gain EVs and change IVs through happiness.

[Champion Steve]

Maybe the more happy the Pokemon is, the higher chance it has of sparkling each turn? When your Pokemon sparkle, they look pretty. Rock Polish would have the effect of doubling the user's chance of sparkling each turn in addition to the speed boost.
In all serious though, we have literally no idea what the new mechanic would be, and I for one prefer the talk of evolving crapmons (plausible) to the suggestions that they make it that happiness increases Evasion (implausible and would incredibly annoying).

[Flaming Piranha]

Originally Posted by Fat CynicalGiant

EVs and IVs make your pokemon stronger in battle right? Maybe they will finally let us gain EVs and change IVs through happiness.

I think they'll keep the EV system, IV is very probable though.

[Jimera0]

Originally Posted by Fat CynicalGiant

EVs and IVs make your pokemon stronger in battle right? Maybe they will finally let us gain EVs and change IVs through happiness.

That's not "a new battle mechanism" though. That phrase very strongly implies a change in the way battle mechanics work. If it were a way to gain EVs and IVs it'd be a TRAINING mechanism, not a battle mechanism.

Now it is possible it's just worded improperly, seeing as it's coming directly from a guy who speaks English as a second language at best. Then again, I doubt that what he's saying on his English language blog goes unfiltered. Gamefreak isn't stupid; they KNOW fans will be watching developer blogs like this for information, and you can bet that everything he said was carefully selected.

Personally, I really have no idea what they're going to do with this. It could be all moves being affected by happiness (which just means that 255 happiness would become default on sims and frustration never seeing the light of day again, as well as more annoying damage calculations). Such a change would certainly see a revamp in how Happiness is gained, but might not really affect battles themselves.

On the other hand it could be something much more radical, like a completely new stat, or bonuses that can be applied to various areas of strength in your Pokemon like EVs can (which would certainly affect simulation more). It might not even be stat based at all and be an per-battle system, like crowd excitment in Pokemon contests in Generation 3. Do friendly/bonding/whatever actions and you build a meter for a super attack or something. Imagine how much THAT would change battles. Now I don't really find that particularly likely though, but who knows?

In game the consequences of a such a change would be much more annoying though, making the playstyle of rotating Pokemon around non-viable. I really don't see a way they can avoid that, but I really hope they do because it takes a lot of the fun out of the Pokemon games in the realm of experimentation. What fun would it be if the mechanics just made it so it was always best to pick up a bunch of Pokemon on route 1 and then just stay with those the whole game? Not much fun at all, and I hope they avoid that somehow.

[PlatypusVenom]

Originally Posted by Fat CynicalGiant

EVs and IVs make your pokemon stronger in battle right? Maybe they will finally let us gain EVs and change IVs through happiness.

I do notthink they will/should do anything with IVs or EVs. They are fine just how they are.

[Pokesal]

What if more happiness = stronger moves (Pokemon would become stronger or basepower of moves would become higher with higher happiness).

[Bashfrog]

Originally Posted by Fat Jimera0

Ok seriously people? We finally get something concrete to discuss and speculate about and no one has more than a single sentence to say about it? Instead you go on raving about more goddamn evolutions and eviolite.

I actually saw someone show this information earlier in the thread, though everyone was a bit skeptical at the time, so now that this is confirmed, I'll say that the bonding mechanic is probably going to cut into training mechanics in some way, just probably indirectly. What we can assume is it will likely affect competative just as much as it affects in-game, meaning that it won't just be a in-game specific change, and it won't just be a huge metagame change. It also will have something to do with happiness level. At the very least, it will make happiness or some other mechanic that can be though of as bonding very important, or if it was originally not important, on the same level as the other mechanics. This is all speculation though.

[labarith]

Originally Posted by Fat Basileus

85%-90% of the time evolite doesn't do much to help a Pokemon, idk why everyone is begging for some Pokemon to evolve. The only way evolite would become OP is if Pokemon were allowed to hold 2 items, which will never happen.

if eviolite's not good as a single item, why would letting it hold a 2nd be better?

:/

[Bashfrog]

Originally Posted by Fat Pokesal

What if more happiness = stronger moves (Pokemon would become stronger or basepower of moves would become higher with higher happiness).

That's like everything being return-like, which seems a bit implausible, and not really mentionable, so I assume it will be bigger.

[CynicalGiant]

Originally Posted by Fat PlatypusVenom

I do notthink they will/should do anything with IVs or EVs. They are fine just how they are.

IVs requires a painful amount of grinding and breeding and random chance. If they want more people to stop using sims and more people to do things legitimately, they will fix it.

[Bashfrog]

Originally Posted by Fat labarith

if eviolite's not good as a single item, why would letting it hold a 2nd be better?

:/

evolite+anything else would allow a pokemon, such as chansey, who already is tougher defensively than its evolution blissey with evolite, to reach the same level, and perhaps higher, by allowing it leftovers or a power-boosting item.
That's a bad example, but the point is nfe pokemon would become a bigger threat since they can block just as well (or better) and even hit nearly as hard as their evolution.

[CynicalGiant]

Originally Posted by Fat Bashfrog

evolite+anything else would allow a pokemon, such as chansey, who already is tougher defensively than its evolution blissey with evolite, to reach the same level, and perhaps higher, by allowing it leftovers or a power-boosting item.
That's a bad example, but the point is nfe pokemon would become a bigger threat since they can block just as well (or better) and even hit nearly as hard as their evolution.

The thought of Eviolite + Choice Band on a lot of pokes is also pretty scary, Gurdurr for example.

Originally Posted by Fat Jimera0

In game the consequences of a such a change would be much more annoying though, making the playstyle of rotating Pokemon around non-viable. I really don't see a way they can avoid that, but I really hope they do because it takes a lot of the fun out of the Pokemon games in the realm of experimentation. What fun would it be if the mechanics just made it so it was always best to pick up a bunch of Pokemon on route 1 and then just stay with those the whole game? Not much fun at all, and I hope they avoid that somehow.

Triple battles and rotation battles were new mechanics, and they were almost completely neglected by the competitive communities. I have a feeling the same thing will happen with this unless they don't make it optional.

They might also make happiness easier/faster to build up.

[x42bn6]

Originally Posted by Fat Jimera0

On the other hand it could be something much more radical, like a completely new stat, or bonuses that can be applied to various areas of strength in your Pokemon like EVs can (which would certainly affect simulation more). It might not even be stat based at all and be an per-battle system, like crowd excitment in Pokemon contests in Generation 3. Do friendly/bonding/whatever actions and you build a meter for a super attack or something. Imagine how much THAT would change battles. Now I don't really find that particularly likely though, but who knows?

Going by what the anime does, Ash's Pokémon generally get pummelled thanks to his stupidity, until they somehow overturn all the odds thanks to his excellent bond with his Pokémon. It's something that generally hasn't mattered that much in the games, but it would be nice to expand on it.

The lack of walking Pokémon in the trailers is a shame, though, as that would be the easiest way of showcasing bonding with Pokémon.

How would this Ash-Pikachu bond work in-game? I think it could be similar to "Limit breaks" of sorts. Maybe each Pokémon will get a second bond-based ability. Imagine, say, getting a speed boost at low health dependent on the bond strength.

The mirror hint also might suggest that customisation might not just be limited to looks, name and gender - but perhaps personality, as well. After all, the bond between trainer and Pokémon is as much about the characteristics of the trainer as the Pokémon itself.

Originally Posted by Fat Jimera0

In game the consequences of a such a change would be much more annoying though, making the playstyle of rotating Pokemon around non-viable. I really don't see a way they can avoid that, but I really hope they do because it takes a lot of the fun out of the Pokemon games in the realm of experimentation. What fun would it be if the mechanics just made it so it was always best to pick up a bunch of Pokemon on route 1 and then just stay with those the whole game? Not much fun at all, and I hope they avoid that somehow.

I don't think it's that "unfun" because this is pretty much how your starter works (or is supposed to work, I guess). It could easily be balanced so that the Rattata/Patrat equivalent is probably not going to beat the Champion single-handedly through bond strength alone - sometimes, it will be best to sacrifice bonds for strength.

[TehGreyCyanide]

I think they should totally make a new evolution for Skarmory, who is an Uber Dragon/Steel type. But in order to evolution it you must Level up Skarmory in the end of a hard-long-annoying cave while holding a hard-as-hell to obtain item and with an exclusive move it can only learn from a tutor who is in the end of another hard-long-annoying cave and ask for a stupidly high price. Must note that both caves are filled up with annoying trainers that everytime they see you, you must combat their teams of 6 pokemons. Then, and only then, you can evolve Skarmory into the Dragon/Steel Uber you can't use in OU tourneys.

[Bashfrog]

Originally Posted by Fat CynicalGiant

Triple battles and rotation battles were new mechanics, and they were almost completely neglected by the competitive communities. I have a feeling the same thing will happen with this unless they don't make it optional.
They might also make happiness easier/faster to build up.

They may also make it drop down quickly, maybe even in battle.

An idea might be that natures or other personality details would affect how they gain happiness, like shadow pokemon in pokemon colluseum and xd. So if you have a pokemon with a certain nature or personality like "likes to fight", any time spend not using physical attacks would cause happiness to go down.

Perhaps if a pokemon takes too many hits at once or goes to long without putting a serious dent in a pokemon's health (this may or may not include status) they would lose a large amount of happiness, and even gain a status affect like scared or discouraged, which makes it stop following orders, or do less damage than normal, or take more damage, based on nature. This would probably make support pokemon more hit and run than stall, because could you stall when stalling might cause discouragement to go up and ruin your ability to fight?