Pokémon X and Y Discussion

[Bashfrog]

Originally Posted by Fat TehGreyCyanide

I think they should totally make a new evolution for Skarmory, who is an Uber Dragon/Steel type. But in order to evolution it you must Level up Skarmory in the end of a hard-long-annoying cave while holding a hard-as-hell to obtain item and with an exclusive move it can only learn from a tutor who is in the end of another hard-long-annoying cave and ask for a stupidly high price. Must note that both caves are filled up with annoying trainers that everytime they see you, you must combat their teams of 6 pokemons. Then, and only then, you can evolve Skarmory into the Dragon/Steel Uber you can't use in OU tourneys.

It doesn't matter how hard it is to evolve it, evolite ruins any possibility for a skarmory evo. Don't mention it again. Please. We've had too many stupid arguments and conversations about evos that will never be.

[TehGreyCyanide]

Originally Posted by Fat Bashfrog

It doesn't matter how hard it is to evolve it, evolite ruins any possibility for a skarmory evo. Don't mention it again. Please. We've had too many stupid arguments and conversations about evos that will never be.

Meh, it was just a joke. If they made a Skarmory evolution Eviolite Skarmory would be a pain in the ass. But Tropius evolution is totally happening.

[PlatypusVenom]

Originally Posted by Fat TehGreyCyanide

Meh, it was just a joke. If they made a Skarmory evolution Eviolite Skarmory would be a pain in the ass. But Tropius evolution is totally happening.

Amen to that, and since Skarmory is a duo with Mantine, it will probably get a baby evolution if any.

[Nyara]

Tropius doesn't need a evolve, it's on NU just for it's Stealth Rock weakness, but it's stats, skills, moves, and in fact, everything is from an excelent wall with offensive presense, sad that water types all can Ice Beam it to the oblivion, but it still walls other things like a king, it can heal the 91% of it's HP under sun EACH TURN, and can still heal itself an avarage of 44% under bad weathers, and 67% without weather, and can Leech Seed your face all the day (in fact, under the sun and if he Leech Seeded you, you can only beat it by PP stalling or OHKO it), and can even setup 2+ of Attack/Spa under sun or 2+ of attack with Sword Dance and destroy you, or can Dragon Dance (it does have it), or can Curse, or can phaze, it's pretty versatile, like a Banana Dinosaur should be.

But it's NU because it's somewhat hard to wall things with the 25% of your HP stripped each time you enter to the field, and UU and RU almost doesn't have sun teams because Ninetales and Vulpix are banned, so, on place of being UU, it's NU for the weather less condition, UU is also full of Fire attacks, that Tropius can wall at some degree with 252 HP and special defenses EV's, and Curse up, but even when only Chandelure can safety counter it, the others still mantain this on check.

Not talking about OU as there is impossible to have walls with weakness to Stealth Rock, totally and completely impossible, no mather what, and there will never and never will have a wall with weakness to Stealth Rock unless the move gets debuffed or something, you can't wall overpowered attacks with the half or three quarters of your HP on each entry.

[Layell]

Originally Posted by Fat PlatypusVenom

Amen to that, and since Skarmory is a duo with Mantine, it will probably get a baby evolution if any.

Mantyke would like to have a word with you about those duo evolutions.

[yoshinite]

Anyone else think that the reason Golurk is holding an Eevee is because they made two new Eeveelutions, which are Ghost and Ground?

[Bashfrog]

Originally Posted by Fat Nyara

Tropius doesn't need a evolve, it's on NU just for it's Stealth Rock weakness, but it's stats, skills, moves, and in fact, everything is from an excelent wall with offensive presense, sad that water types all can Ice Beam it to the oblivion, but it still walls other things like a king, it can heal the 91% of it's HP under sun EACH TURN, and can still heal itself an avarage of 44% under bad weathers, and 67% without weather, and can Leech Seed your face all the day (in fact, under the sun and if he Leech Seeded you, you can only beat it by PP stalling or OHKO it), and can even setup 2+ of Attack/Spa under sun or 2+ of attack with Sword Dance and destroy you, or can Dragon Dance (it does have it), or can Curse, or can phaze, it's pretty versatile, like a Banana Dinosaur should be.

But it's NU because it's somewhat hard to wall things with the 25% of your HP stripped each time you enter to the field, and UU and RU almost doesn't have sun teams because Ninetales and Vulpix are banned, so, on place of being UU, it's NU for the weather less condition, UU is also full of Fire attacks, that Tropius can wall at some degree with 252 HP and special defenses EV's, and Curse up, but even when only Chandelure can safety counter it, the others still mantain this on check.

Not talking about OU as there is impossible to have walls with weakness to Stealth Rock, totally and completely impossible, no mather what, and there will never and never will have a wall with weakness to Stealth Rock unless the move gets debuffed or something, you can't wall overpowered attacks with the half or three quarters of your HP on each entry.

That sums up the situation for more than a few pokemon, and it's sad. Stealth rock really messes up too many things, and it should be nerfed, because it prevents some people from enjoying competative.

[Bashfrog]

Originally Posted by Fat yoshinite

Anyone else think that the reason Golurk is holding an Eevee is because they made two new Eeveelutions, which are Ghost and Ground?

That's a rather mediocre theory. I'm not saying that isn't possible, but it also is next to a palpitoad, which is water/ground, so it's not really plausible.

[megados]

Originally Posted by Fat x42bn6

How would this Ash-Pikachu bond work in-game? I think it could be similar to "Limit breaks" of sorts. Maybe each Pokémon will get a second bond-based ability. Imagine, say, getting a speed boost at low health dependent on the bond strength.

This I could see happening a sort of blaze/overgrow/torrent Boston but in any stat, imagine your bidoof is fighting and is down to red hp and its nature is likes to run after using him in so many battles he gains a "second" ability that boosts his speed when low on health. This would make bonding and natures a much bigger deal. We could have some very interesting sets appear, pokemon that we would want to have just a little more attack or speed etc would all of a sudden become viable. IMO this would be awesome

[Blazen]

http://www.gamefreak.co.jp/blog/dir_english/

Other than the battle mechanism thing, there were 2 other lines that interested me here.

"Pokémon that are brought to life and look as if they are right in front you."

This could just mean the updated graphics, but I'm hoping for some confirmation of AR being used in someway. I would love to have a Pokemon battle on my coffee table. Also, I already said it before, but AR could be an interesting way to add new evolution, or catching methods.

"An innovate communication system that will make you feel connected with
players from around the world as you play the game."

It seems obvious that Street Pass, and Spot Pass will be used in some way, but I'm curious if there's more to this. If the 3DS had the social features that the WiiU has, then that would seem like the obvious answer.

[Garagara]

Gonna get on the spitballin' train. What would people think of trainer abilities? Like a boost to your team, depending on bond strength? THink advance wars, something like a boost to speed for your pokes or a boost to defense.

Either that, or it's like mentioned earlier, pokes get stronger as their happiness gets higher. It would help balance out some pokes/make it harder to level hard to train things like gyarados, but make stuff that's quick to love like wigglytuff, more powerful early on.

[shockwave527]

Originally Posted by Fat Bashfrog

That sums up the situation for more than a few pokemon, and it's sad. Stealth rock really messes up too many things, and it should be nerfed, because it prevents some people from enjoying competative.

We need a Hazard Clause. Optional use, but one that allows you to play with or with out SR, Spikes and TSpikes.

[Bashfrog]

Originally Posted by Fat Blazen

http://www.gamefreak.co.jp/blog/dir_english/

Other than the battle mechanism thing, there were 2 other lines that interested me here.

"Pokémon that are brought to life and look as if they are right in front you."

This could just mean the updated graphics, but I'm hoping for some confirmation of AR being used in someway. I would love to have a Pokemon battle on my coffee table. Also, I already said it before, but AR could be an interesting way to add new evolution, or catching methods.

"An innovate communication system that will make you feel connected with
players from around the world as you play the game."

It seems obvious that Street Pass, and Spot Pass will be used in some way, but I'm curious if there's more to this. If the 3DS had the social features that the WiiU has, then that would seem like the obvious answer.

I'm really hoping "more connected" means a cross between dpp underground multiplayer and competative battles. 3v3 capture the flag in any area of the game would be awesome, especially if you could battle opponents, forcing them to fall back to heal their pokemon, which would make it strategic.

For example, you might have a ctf game in nimbasa city. You would set where you want the flag to be (it would be a key item that only is used in multiplayer) and start the match, with players choosing sides if they want to. Players could set up traps (or something similar) which would slow down, damage, or inflict some other condition on an opponents party. They might be able to set down items or use a pokemon's attacks to cause area effects in a certain area, like a gravity-inducing item for example, to make it harder for an opponent to fight them. These could all be destroyed or disarmed by the other team.

If a player presses A when standing next to, or even running into an opponent, a battle would start. You would only be allowed 1-3 pokemon, to keep the battles quick. Any effects caused by an item a player outside the match used will take effect the next turn. When a player has all their pokemon ko'ed, they would have to run back to a healing point to be able to do anything. A player could also run away, though this would allow the opponent a free turn to damage the player (unless, of course, they happened to have run away.)
Once a flag is taken, it needs to be brought back to base. Simple ctf stuff.

I would say this idea is stupid, but stupidity is fun, and sitting around talking about the same points about competative changes are boring.

[Bashfrog]

Originally Posted by Fat Garagara

Gonna get on the spitballin' train. What would people think of trainer abilities? Like a boost to your team, depending on bond strength? THink advance wars, something like a boost to speed for your pokes or a boost to defense.

Either that, or it's like mentioned earlier, pokes get stronger as their happiness gets higher. It would help balance out some pokes/make it harder to level hard to train things like gyarados, but make stuff that's quick to love like wigglytuff, more powerful early on.

They would be ok, but it would be like extra haxs.
ex: darmanitan at 25% health, primeape at 10%, has burn.
"Primeape's trainer uses special ability: sugar rush!" primeape outspeeds darmanitan, ko'ing it and winning the battle. So it would be strategic, but it also would cause some from behind victories that would kinda mess with the game as a whole. I'm just saying this because every game that has this also has gamers with at least one story where "I would have won, but they had a killstreak/super ability/vehicle/ordinance/ultimate attack ready"

[CynicalGiant]

Originally Posted by Fat megados

This I could see happening a sort of blaze/overgrow/torrent Boston but in any stat, imagine your bidoof is fighting and is down to red hp and its nature is likes to run after using him in so many battles he gains a "second" ability that boosts his speed when low on health. This would make bonding and natures a much bigger deal. We could have some very interesting sets appear, pokemon that we would want to have just a little more attack or speed etc would all of a sudden become viable. IMO this would be awesome

I hope this is the case. This would be a great way to make a lot more pokes viable.

[Basileus]

Originally Posted by Fat TehGreyCyanide

I think they should totally make a new evolution for Skarmory, who is an Uber Dragon/Steel type. But in order to evolution it you must Level up Skarmory in the end of a hard-long-annoying cave while holding a hard-as-hell to obtain item and with an exclusive move it can only learn from a tutor who is in the end of another hard-long-annoying cave and ask for a stupidly high price. Must note that both caves are filled up with annoying trainers that everytime they see you, you must combat their teams of 6 pokemons. Then, and only then, you can evolve Skarmory into the Dragon/Steel Uber you can't use in OU tourneys.

If this new creation had levitate, I would do it.

[blasphemy1]

Originally Posted by Fat Bashfrog

It doesn't matter how hard it is to evolve it, evolite ruins any possibility for a skarmory evo. Don't mention it again. Please. We've had too many stupid arguments and conversations about evos that will never be.

Based on what? I'm sorry, I haven't seen anything substantiated pertaining to this. How does an item relate to not giving an unrelated Pokemon an evolution? Please provide your reasoning behind these claims. To be clear, I think a Skarmory evolution is unlikely.

[Yveltal]

Originally Posted by Fat blasphemy1

Based on what? I'm sorry, I haven't seen anything substantiated pertaining to this. How does an item relate to not giving an unrelated Pokemon an evolution? Please provide your reasoning behind these claims. To be clear, I think a Skarmory evolution is unlikely.

I got your pertaining subject of interest on page 114.
Allow me to be self important and quote myself;

Here's a sliver of resoning I haven't seen yet.

Mantine and Skarmory were seen as parallels because they have the same BST and similarily distributed stats with one being oriented more for physical purposes and the other for specials.
Gligar and Delibird were also seen as parallels, mostly because they were version exclusive parallels. They're stats weren't even (Gligar's BST is 100 points more than Delibird), but you still found them at roughly the same points in time in the game.

Originally, Skarmory and Delibird were only available in Silver.

Mantine and Gligar, the version exclusives of Gold, were both given an addition to their evolutionary lines. If Game Freak really did want to use these pokemon respectively as parallels, I'd predict a skarmory prevo and a Delibird evo. ToddlerSkarmory would have the stats 45/60/120/60/20/50, and SuperDelibird would have the stats 70/75/70/100/70/95.

[Nyara]

I don't think Skarmory will evolve, at most he will have a pre-evolution. Skarmory is already one of the best physical tanks of the entire Pokéworld, and the best spiker over there, too. He's still one of best phazers, too, as it's forced to run by only electric attacks, and fire attacks if it's not raining, and water if it's. Anyway, Yvetal pointed already what I think.

[Pokesal]

Lol, Shuckle evolution. Shuckle + Eviolite = Utter DOOM

[Nyara]

Originally Posted by Fat Pokesal

Lol, Shuckle evolution. Shuckle + Eviolite = Utter DOOM

Even with 999 of defense Shuckle is not doing too much... it's HP is really horrible, and it basically destroy any possibility to tank hits at all, and more as it can't really take well super efective moves and it doesn't have any instant recovery move, but it's still a decent option for doubles for it's support moves, and can even give some good punchs if he power swap with the correct opponent. But even then, on single's he's pretty decent and can do a really good job at supporting it's team and stalling, it's problem is it's weakness to Stealth Rock, as like any wall weak to it, it makes Shuckle unviable on metagames with hazards.

Eviolite + Rest may work, but it's so prone to leave the opponent to setup that just don't work, so, Shuckle's best item will be always Leaftovers or Binding Band (to deal damage).

[The Cicada]

Shuckles HP with those defenses isn't as low as it sounds. It's still incredibly bulky, and can boost it's defenses with contrary shell smash. Shuckles problem is typing (sr weakness), fucked by taunt, and bad movepool, meaning it can only use 2 sets (toxic stall, and support with knock off/encore/SR/Toxic/Rest, etc.)

[Nyara]

Shuckle doesn't have Shell Smash.

Shuckle's best set is still Wrap + Binding Band, add to the mix Protect, Toxic, and rest, and you'll be able to overstall a good bunch of Pokémon, or at least leave almost K.O any setup swepeer to try that setup on your face (protip: Encore rarely works as it needs gosh's like prediction power). Power Split's sets can also be used along with Wrap, as you can reduce to the half the power of your oponent, you can trap him, and you're not really prone at all to Taunt as you can just Rollout or Stone Edge it's face with your now usable offense, Power Split sets tends to forgoe Toxic and Binding Band on favor of Leaftovers and an attack. Any other set, incluided the one listed on the site, are pure joke sets than doesn't ever intended to make of Shuckle a viable option on NU, and the VGC's one is pretty decent over there.

[Bashfrog]

Originally Posted by Fat blasphemy1

Based on what? I'm sorry, I haven't seen anything substantiated pertaining to this. How does an item relate to not giving an unrelated Pokemon an evolution? Please provide your reasoning behind these claims. To be clear, I think a Skarmory evolution is unlikely.

Even gamefreak has to play by some semblance of rules, and they know that a skarmory evolution just wouldn't work. Please look up the evolite page. Notice how many nfe pokemon become far more viable when evolite is added. Skarmory is 65/80/140/40/70/70. With evolite, it is 65/80/210/40/105/70. That's a pretty huge difference. In fact, it's far more than the boost chansey gets. It already is in ou. Since gamefreak still needs variety in its tournaments, this just can't happen.

[Jimera0]

@Nyara

If being SR weak immediately makes a wall unviable...

then how come Lugia is one of the best walls in Ubers?

Yes Lugia does have a BST of 680, but it's an example that SR alone does not ruin a wall. Dragonite and Salamence can both wall pretty well despite their SR weaknesses (in fact thanks to Multiscale Dragonite walls VERY well, I know from experience). Gyarados can wall too (I have used it as such).

While an SR weakness is bad for a wall, true, it's not an instant death sentence. Hell, those Pokemon I listed aren't even optimized statistically for walling, but they can still do it anyway. Other factors come in for it.

The reason Tropious is NU is not because it's SR weak, but because it has bad defensive typing and its defenses are not high enough to completely offset that. It also, as you said, requires sun support to function properly, which is not present in tiers below OU. The reason Shuckle is NU is not because it is SR weak, but because it has no access to reliable recovery outside of Rest, no offensive prowess to speak of (barring Power trick, which suddenly turns it into the squishiest and SLOWEST thing imaginable), and terrible HP that offset its gargantuan defenses.

Furthermore, Tropius is far from outside the range of possibly getting an evolution, at 460 BST. For comparison, Magneton has 465 BST, Electabuzz has 490 BST, Magmar has 495 BST, Scyther has 500 BST and Porygon 2 has a very impressive 515 BST. All of these got evolutions. There is literally no reason for Tropius to not get an evolution.

@Bashfrog
Just letting you know that Eviolite does not boost BASE stats, it boosts the ACTUAL stats of the Pokemon in question. Otherwise, Chansey would have the same defense as Blissey when we all know that Chansey's physical defense far outstrips Blissey's. Not that this undermines you're point at all, just making sure that everyone knows that.