(Ubers) Offensive Team (Peaked #1)

[i1338]

This is a team I've been using for quite a while and have now decided to "retire", so to speak (i.e. use it considerably less, as a lot of players are familiar with it). I don't want to bore people with walls of text, so I'll keep the introduction and Pokemon descriptions pretty brief. I should also point out that I didn't include "speed creep" EVs in this post, lol.

As you can probably tell, this team focuses on offense backed by a core of Thunder Wave users. Since I don't have a spinner, I attempted to limit hazard weaknesses - I have 4 Pokemon immune to Toxic Spikes, 2 immune to Spikes, and nothing weak to Stealth Rock while 3 Pokemon resist it.


Kyogre @ Leftovers
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 Def
Modest Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Thunder

Thunder Wave is one of my favorite moves to use on Kyogre, as it's incredibly useful against switch-ins like Palkia, Arceus-Grass, and Latias without Refresh. Switch-ins that generally don't mind moving second, such as Ferrothorn, still dislike paralysis due to its potential to waste a turn. That said, it's almost always a safe move to use since the relevant Ground-types used in Ubers will never switch into Kyogre. Even with Leftovers, Kyogre's Surf still hits like a truck thanks to the Drizzle boost and maximum SpA investment; I prefer it over Hydro Pump because I really don't enjoy missing. The other two moves grant coverage alongside Surf, of course.


Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Atk / 208 SDef / 8 Spd
Careful Nature
- Power Whip
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Thunder Wave

Ferrothorn is incredibly useful in Ubers. Its ability to switch in and set up Spikes against almost every defensive Pokemon, as well as otherwise huge threats such as Zekrom, is extremely valuable on this team, turning many 2HKOs into OHKOs. Drizzle from Kyogre further enhances its walling capabilities, allowing it to comfortably take any attack from HP Fire users like Lati@s and Giratina-O in addition to the odd Flamethrower from Genesect.

As with Kyogre, Ferrothorn threatens most Ground-types decently with Power Whip and so does a great job of spreading paralysis. The EVs are standard, though 8 Spe allows Ferrothorn to outrun all unboosted paralyzed Pokemon up to and including base 90s.


Dialga @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 56 SAtk / 200 SDef
Modest Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Dragon Pulse
- Thunder Wave
- Fire Blast

Dialga completes my trio of Thunder Wave users. I'll generally lead with it so I can set up Stealth Rock and/or paralyze something right off the bat, as very few threats can OHKO Dialga, let alone switch into it. The set is mostly that of standard support Dialga, though I opted to replace Thunder with Thunder Wave since I find the latter to have more utility overall (Thunder Wave + Dragon Pulse is just as effective against most of Thunder's intended targets and isn't dependent on rain). Finally, Fire Blast keeps Forretress and Ferrothorn from laying too many hazards, as it's at worst a 2HKO even in the rain. It's also great against predictable Groudon switch-ins.


Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 176 Atk / 248 Def / 84 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Shadow Sneak
- Dragon Tail
- Earthquake

I originally had standard mixed Giratina-O here but replaced it with this very cool set shown to me by ReshiramTest/Anikrahman1995/whatever else he goes by, in an attempt to check Swords Dance Arceus more efficiently with Dragon Tail.

Giratina-O serves as very nice utility Pokemon. It provides some much-needed immunities, a priority move, a phazing move, and the ability to spinblock, while retaining the ability to hit hard with Outrage. Going purely physical allows it to invest more into its defenses, in this case physically. For example, even after Stealth Rock, +2 max Atk LO Arceus cannot OHKO it with Shadow Claw. Running Earthquake in the last slot is particularly useful against Substitute + Swords Dance Mold Breaker Excadrill, which is otherwise capable of defeating Giratina-O and spinning away any hazards I have down.


Latios (M) @ Soul Dew
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Grass Knot
- Surf
- Psyshock

I don't know why this isn't used more. Latios is one of the absolute best wallbreakers in Ubers thanks to Soul Dew. Even 248/0 Ho-Oh, a very common switch-in when rain isn't up, can be 2HKOed by Psyshock (though it can still switch in repeatedly to tank Draco Meteor if I don't have SR up, thanks to Regenerator). 4/252 and 4/252+ Chansey are also 2HKOed by Psyshock, though a bit more hazard damage is required to guarantee the 2HKO on the latter. Latios can nuke pretty much everything else with Draco Meteor, or a rain-boosted Surf in the case of Steel-types not named Ferrothorn.

Latios also has a very easy time switching in, notably against Kyogre and Groudon, thanks to Soul Dew and Levitate. I should also note that it thoroughly appreciates when Pokemon that are faster or common users of Choice Scarf, such as Darkrai, Kyurem-W, and Palkia, are paralyzed.


Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- X-Scissor
- Sleep Talk

Scarf Terrakion is ridiculously good at what it does, namely cleaning up a weakened team and checking or revenge KOing many of the dangerous Pokemon in Ubers, including but not at all limited to Rayquaza, Arceus, Ho-Oh, Shaymin-S, Adamant Kabutops, and Kyurem-W. Sleep Talk is used in the last slot in order to be able to switch into Darkrai, which otherwise causes huge problems for this team, and nail it for a large amount of damage or an OHKO depending on which move is picked. As for the rest of the set, Terrakion's great STAB moves are self-explanatory, while X-Scissor is particularly useful against weakened Lati@s and Mewtwo.


And that's the team, rate/hate/steal. I'd greatly appreciate suggestions about offensive threats this team has trouble with, for example Mewtwo, Arceus-Fighting, and Arceus-Ghost.

[shrang]

Well done on the team. Since you've highlighted your weaknesses, this makes my job a whole lot easier. I personally don't think you're weak to Fighting Arceus (you have Psyshock Latios) or Mewtwo (you have hazards, Giratina-O and Scarf Terrakion). However, you're right about your weakness to GhostCeus. I suggest that you change Kyogre's set to either Specially Defensive or Calm Mind RestTalk. Specially Defensive can take a number of hits and Roar it out, while Calm Mind can generally tank GhostCeus's attacks and out-muscle it with higher powered attacks as well as possible Scald burns. Just make sure you run max HP / max SpD.

[i1338]

Hi shrang, thanks for the rate. This will be a pretty short reply since I'm doing it from my phone. You're probably right about Mewtwo (it's notoriously difficult to counter and I have somewhat decent checks to it) and Fightceus (it's pretty rare and I don't think I've ever actually been swept by one, but in theory a CM set can 6-0 this team - if I can paralyze it, though, Latios easily beats it with Psyshock).

However, I'll take your suggestion about Ghostceus into account and will likely use a CM+RestTalk variant of Kyogre, especially because I don't have a set-up sweeper (I do already have a sleep absorber, albeit not a status absorber).

[i Darky]

Seems like a very solid team. Lugia is probably annoying, as it can Sub on a Thunderwave and rack up hazard damage / status your pokes with Paralysis or Toxic. Putting Thunder -> Grass Knot/Surf on Latios could help, although the coverage is redundent.

[i1338]

Yeah, even though it's Spikes bait for Ferrothorn, Lugia can be pretty annoying. Using Thunder over Grass Knot seems like a good idea, as I can still beat Groudon with Draco Meteor. Plus, off the top of my head, it gives me a more reliable move to use against CM Manaphy.

[Poppy]

this is an alright team, seconding resttalk specially defensive kyogre to help with darkrai and cm ghost arceus, it also alleviates your weakness to specs ogre somewhat (although specs water spout can still 2hko when at full HP) but it's better than having everything else 2hkoed even after stealth rock + spikes.

with specially defensive kyogre there is no need for sleep talk on terrakion, therefore i suggest toxic to bait groudon / lugia switch-ins and permanently cripple them.

that's all i can suggest with the current team dynamic =] good luck.

[i1338]

Thanks Poppy, I'll take your advice into account.

I should mention, though, that I've never really had much trouble against Specs Kyogre relative to how dangerous of a threat it is; I generally only need one layer of hazards up to be able to play around its Water Spout, though I occasionally have to sacrifice something in order to beat it. I also have five water resists, and it can't really switch in against anything I have.

[Sweep]

I remember this team! I have seen it many, many times and am probably around .500 against it.

Thunder Wave spamming is awesome because every viable pokemon in the Ubers tier not immune to electric attacks dislike/hate it. Even Ferrothorn hates missing out on some turns. I also like Scarf Terra and offensive Giratina. Some notes...

1. Yeah, your team REALLY hates CM Arceus Ghost. It can spinblock, stop Terrakion from spamming Close Combat, crush Latios, Giratina, and Terrakion with Judgment and Ferro and Dialga with Focus Blast. It is the biggest weakness of your team IMO. If it comes in on Terrakion, bring in Kyogre IMMEDIATELY and paralyze it. If Kyogre does not have the health to live a +1 Judgment, Ferrothorn can take a Focus Blast if it is at full health. Apart from that, man...there's not much you can do about it if Focus Blast actually hits its targets.

Arceus Fighting is slightly less of a problem, though Substitute allows it to protect itself from Thunder Wave. Latios and Giratina survive +1 ice beam and the former destroys it with Psyshock, while the latter can phaze it. Again, Kyogre can come in and T-Wave it unless Arceus is carrying Sub (rare on the fighting variant).

The one change I would make is getting rid of Surf. Latios beats Excadrill with it (though your team does well against Excadrill anyway) but it doesn't have much use otherwise. Steels like Ferrothorn and Dialga are resistant to Surf. Thunder helps it maul Lugia, Ho-Oh, and some other flying types. I also ran Magic Coat with some success on my Latios; HP Fire is also an option though it hits weakly in rain.

Good team. I miss playing it.

[lousy918]

Your ferrothorn's ev spread is wrong, either you shift all atk evs to sdef or you use 48 atk evs for breaking darkceus' sub

[i1338]

@Sweep, thanks, and I'll definitely consider replacing Surf. I can see a set of DM/Thunder/Psyshock/Roost or a support move working well.

@lousy, iirc I kept the Atk EVs to 2HKO 252/4 (usually CB) Groudon after SR so that it would be forced to go for Fire Punch or risk getting KOed, giving me an easy time predicting. They're pretty pointless outside of that unlikely scenario, though, so I'll change that.