OU Stats — January 2013

[Nyara]

Scizor's high usage = Being used on most of Rain AND Sand teams.

That's pretty much all, he's not the best of the best of the tier, but he's still great, and is the most versatile one as he can play the rain and sand game at the same time and be happy U-Turning stuff, and is even a good check to those Venusaur who forgoe Hidden Power Fire (35%).

[youngjake93]

Originally Posted by Fat Nyara

Scizor's high usage = Being used on most of Rain AND Sand teams.

That's pretty much all, he's not the best of the best of the tier, but he's still great, and is the most versatile one as he can play the rain and sand game at the same time and be happy U-Turning stuff, and is even a good check to those Venusaur who forgoe Hidden Power Fire (35%).

But Keldeo partners better with Politoed and Tyranitar AND beats Scizor resisting both STABS and 1hkoing.
If you're gonna emphasize something it should be Scizor's utility with a powerful U-turn, Pursuit and Bullet Punch. Each of which are strong situational weapons. However, with things like Landorus-T and Keldeo being able to come in on Scizor's attacks with little damage, then fire uber powerful attacks back, Scizor shouldn't be as high as BW1. But it is...

[FrostFire]

I'm not sure if Scizor should be as high as it is, but it's worth pointing out that part of the reason for this is Scizor's flexibility in terms of what kinds of teams you can put it on. Or I should say, you can pretty much put Scizor on any team and it will do something. I can't really think of a type of team, actually, that Scizor couldn't really go on - it's almost always an asset to some degree. Compare this to Politoed - For obvious reasons, Politoed can't go on a sand team. Politoed can't go on a sun team. If you're running toed, you have to use a rain team, and that restriction affects it's usage. Comparatively, Scizor's ability to appear in any weather or none at all affects it's usage, but the other way around.

Does that make sense?

So it's not really Scizor's power that drives it's usage per se, just it's ability to be generally useful in a wide array of situations. Like I said, I'm still not sure if Scizor deserves the #1 spot (and I'm certainly not defending it), but I *think* this is the reason behind it's placement.

[SuperHydreigon1996]

Originally Posted by Fat Lavos Spawn

usage stats look like bw1 again, minus the little blip of keldeo and garchomp at #13 and #14, respectively. a couple things stand out to me in these stats. first, scizor is higher than politoed in usage. what? why? scizor isn't even that great in the current metagame, one of the most common and best pokemon, keldeo, can switch in with relative impunity, resists its primary stab move, and ohkos under rain without any sort of boost involved (lo, specs, etc). another surprise is dragonite at #5. i ask again, why is it even there? every single team has a scarfed revenge killer capable of outspeeding and ohkoing a +1 dragonite in the current metagame, so why even bother? i suppose the cb set is still good, but it's essentially a one-for-one, and why use cb nite when you can use cb kyurem-b? i don't understand. finally, deoxys-d at #39 is an absolute disgrace to the showdown community. if you're not using weather in bw2, you should be using deo-d offense, and if you're not using either, you probably aren't very good. current stats indicate that if you were to select a random person's random team, there is a 50% likelihood that they would be utilizing some form of weather. if that's true, then why is deo-d at 6% instead of making up the other 50%? makes me sad.

oh well, at least infernape dropped off the face of the pla-

| 30 | Infernape | 7.18132% |

fffffffffff

Yea, Kyurem-B really needs some more love. It can run a lot of powerful sets, and is a great check to rain. So many good Pokemon are being used less than things like Infernoob. Kyurem-B is a better mixed attacker than him.

Infernape for UU!

[Strategywin]

Why the hate on infernape? Beats gliscor, ferro, forry, gets eq, fast as terrakion and keldeo. Although higher than landorus? I see so much landorus, and i rarely see landorus-t. strange. But all napes should be mixed life orb.

and staraptor so low? you guys need more gen 4 fun.

[Swamp-Rocket]

To be honest, after examining the stats, Cloyter is so much more of a "stat leech" than Infernape. I did some examining of the stats, and Cloyster's raw usage is so high that it would actually pass Infernape, as it goes up from 40th to 24th, and it has 1.8% more usage in raw data. Infernape only moves up by 5 slots (30th to 25th) if only the raw data is examined, and by 0.8% of an increase. While that is still quite a bit, Blissey also has more of a percent variation if only the raw data is used (1.4% more usage), as does Espeon (1.3% more usage) and Metagross (1% more usage), while its 0.8% difference is shared with Gengar.

So technically, going off this, Infernape is only tied for the 5th most "overused Overused Pokemon."

EDIT: As an FYI I really like using Infernape. I liked using Metagross in the Tornadus-T era but I haven't used it since then.

[alexwolf]

Some real stats, nice! Good to see Infernape dropping a bit, even though it still needs to drop ~10 places to be in its rightful position (even though the Infernape sucks bandwagoning is starting to get really annoying). I also want to see Cloyster even lower, as he is honestly garbage in OU. The only worthwhile set is the defensive Rapid Spin set for sun teams. Every Shell Smash variant is stopped cold by Keldeo, Breloom, SpD Jirachi, Politoed, Gastrodon, and Ferrothorn, is SR weak, and has a very hard time setting up against Rain and Sun teams...

Also Gliscor, Alakazam, and Espeon are very overrated and should drop down ~5-10 positions, while Kyurem-B should be in the 20-30 positions. When he first came to OU he was overhyped and everyone held high expectations of him, and then everyone got disappointed because they couldn't 2HKO everything in OU with CB Outrage and stopped using him. Kyu-B's niche comes from its nice bulk, resistances, and awesome power and coverage. Get up a Sub against Politoed, Starmie, Ninetales or whatever, and then start doing some real damage. Entry hazards make it even more painfull, as the opponent struggles to find its moveset and takes large amounts of damage for every wrong switch he makes.

[TheFourthChaser]

Originally Posted by Fat Shurtugal

But weatherless is double that of rain. seriously, the rain haters are obviously over exaggerating. Also its a given fact weather is usually better than weatherless; however, 48% is still quite a lot I assure you. Also, I was pinpointing rain, not weather as a whole thank you very much. Rain is used less than 1/4 of the time, while weatherless is used around 1/2 of the time. More or less you'll be facing a weatherless before rain, which was my point. According to these stats, weatherless is more dominant that rain.

Also, I assure you, the rain usage is also used more by n00bs since its easier to use and the fact that they will all spam the same standard shit. So that point is moot since you could pull that n00b arguement for all these usage stats.

Also, I believe I mentioned that these usage stats might suck lol

It is this part right here. While the stats have become much better than they once were, they still suck. Just look at BKC's post and Infernape's usage compared to the large amount of much better Pokemon under it and you will quickly come to this conclusion.

I was actually pretty happy with stats until I saw Infernape and weatherless being so high. As you've shown, this will now be used as a silly argument against Drizzle. While it is true that lower ranked players can easily pick up a rain team and play, it just doesn't happen. Having screwed around with a team built in #pokemon recently I saw what lower (ladder sucks no matter what part youre on) ladder looked like and I faced monopsychic Trick Room with Alakazam and an Eeveelution Baton Pass team, both lacking any form of weather. One must also keep in mind that many Deoxys-D, which is also broken, teams lack weather abusers, all these things allow for weatherless to come out on top. Like in the past, we should not be using stats in an argument.

What needs to happen now is an Infernape drop to UU and Kyu-B/Deo-D going to at least top 15.

[youngjake93]

Originally Posted by Fat alexwolf

Some real stats, nice! Good to see Infernape dropping a bit, even though it still needs to drop ~10 places to be in its rightful position (even though the Infernape sucks bandwagoning is starting to get really annoying). I also want to see Cloyster even lower, as he is honestly garbage in OU. The only worthwhile set is the defensive Rapid Spin set for sun teams. Every Shell Smash variant is stopped cold by Keldeo, Breloom, SpD Jirachi, Politoed, Gastrodon, and Ferrothorn, is SR weak, and has a very hard time setting up against Rain and Sun teams...

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Skill Link Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 320-375 (90.9 - 106.53%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Skill Link Cloyster Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Politoed: 275-325 (71.61 - 84.63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Cloyster Razor Shell vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 282-333 (69.8 - 82.42%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Skill Link Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gastrodon: 650-765 (152.58 - 179.57%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I wouldn't say every set is "stopped cold"... Gastrodon takes 150+%, Standard Ferro is 1hkoed and Jirachi+Politoed are 2hkoed with a possible flinch chance against Jirachi.

0 SpA Politoed Scald vs. -1 0 HP / 0 SpD Cloyster in rain: 165-195 (68.46 - 80.91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 229-273 (95.02 - 113.27%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
Politoed can't KO back even -1, Breloom only guarantees a revenge kill against non-white herb and Cloyster is best used with dual screen support anyway.

I'll give you Keldeo. Keldeo owns Cloyster's ass in every way possible. Other than that, Cloyster can take down a lot of stuff quite easily. Plus it has some versatility being able to run life orb, nevermeltice, white herb or king's rock effectively with varying emphasis on speed or bulk depending on if you need to take down sun or rain.


Edit: only rain rachi can reliably 1hko cloyster, so here is razor shell in rain
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Cloyster Razor Shell vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi in rain: 422-499 (104.45 - 123.51%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Oh plus:
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Skill Link Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 255-305 (78.7 - 94.13%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Keldeo isn't even a counter lol. Is that a OHKO after a single layer of spikes?

[CabooseFTW]

| 52 | Reuniclus | 4.25971% | 40334 | 4.243% | 31530 | 4.115% |
| 53 | Haxorus | 3.89987% | 41675 | 4.384% | 31412 | 4.100% |

NOOOOOOO! These things (especially haxorus) will destroy UU. Keep using them!

| 30 | Infernape | 7.18132% | 75695 | 7.963% | 60746 | 7.929% |

First Ubers Charizard and now this. Don't worry it'll pass...

| 86 | Charizard | 1.12861% | 19020 | 2.001% | 15146 | 1.977% |

...

| 62 | Ditto | 2.06749% | 18579 | 1.955% | 13928 | 1.818% |

You don't even know how much I want this thing to be OU.

| 48 | Gastrodon | 4.48809% | 39103 | 4.114% | 31872 | 4.160% |

Why is this OU?

[alexwolf]

Originally Posted by Fat youngjake93

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Skill Link Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 320-375 (90.9 - 106.53%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Skill Link Cloyster Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Politoed: 275-325 (71.61 - 84.63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Cloyster Razor Shell vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 282-333 (69.8 - 82.42%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Skill Link Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gastrodon: 650-765 (152.58 - 179.57%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I wouldn't say every set is "stopped cold"... Gastrodon takes 150+%, Standard Ferro is 1hkoed and Jirachi+Politoed are 2hkoed with a possible flinch chance against Jirachi.

0 SpA Politoed Scald vs. -1 0 HP / 0 SpD Cloyster in rain: 165-195 (68.46 - 80.91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 229-273 (95.02 - 113.27%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
Politoed can't KO back even -1, Breloom only guarantees a revenge kill against non-white herb and Cloyster is best used with dual screen support anyway.

I'll give you Keldeo. Keldeo owns Cloyster's ass in every way possible. Other than that, Cloyster can take down a lot of stuff quite easily. Plus it has some versatility being able to run life orb, nevermeltice, white herb or king's rock effectively with varying emphasis on speed or bulk depending on if you need to take down sun or rain.


Edit: only rain rachi can reliably 1hko cloyster, so here is razor shell in rain
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Cloyster Razor Shell vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi in rain: 422-499 (104.45 - 123.51%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Oh plus:
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Skill Link Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 255-305 (78.7 - 94.13%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Keldeo isn't even a counter lol. Is that a OHKO after a single layer of spikes?

First of all Cloyster should never run an Adamant nature. It needs Jolly/Naive in order to outspeed Scarf Keldeo, Scarf Terrakion, and any scarfer in general. Even the on-site analysis suggests Jolly/Naive as the main options, yet 35% of all Closyter have an Adamant nature. Jeez... Second, Life Orb is not the best item to use on Cloyster, as then it dies to any priority hit, after SR and 1 round of LO damage, meaning it will kill two Pokemon at the absolute maximum. Now if you use the best Closyer set for sweeping, which is the Naive/Jolly one with White Herb you will see that Ferro comfortably survives everything, and the same is true for all the other Pokemon that i mentioned (except from Gastro this was a brain fart). So all in all Closyer is hard to get in, weak to SR, walled easily after a boost, and revenge killed easily in general. As i said again, a shitty sweeper most of the time.

[/B/utterfree]

Originally Posted by Fat CabooseFTW

| 52 | Reuniclus | 4.25971% | 40334 | 4.243% | 31530 | 4.115% |
| 53 | Haxorus | 3.89987% | 41675 | 4.384% | 31412 | 4.100% |

NOOOOOOO! These things (especially haxorus) will destroy UU. Keep using them!

Actually, I don't think either of these will destroy UU. UU in of itself is doing relatively okay with permanent Hail among other things going for it, other than Chansey being a bother. But that was because Chansey is that good a Pokemon.

On the other hand, risking a tier's relative decency (even if a bit imbalanced already) doesn't seem to be all that good an idea. Neither's forcing Pokes that are currently not faring well in OU to not drop to UU, where they might be better off in the end.

I don't want this to turn into another Scrafty-based war, back when Scrafty was trying to avoid being UU. :|

[youngjake93]

Originally Posted by Fat alexwolf

First of all Cloyster should never run an Adamant nature. It needs Jolly/Naive in order to outspeed Scarf Keldeo, Scarf Terrakion, and any scarfer in general. Even the on-site analysis suggests Jolly/Naive as the main options, yet 35% of all Closyter have an Adamant nature. Jeez... Second, Life Orb is not the best item to use on Cloyster, as then it dies to any priority hit, after SR and 1 round of LO damage, meaning it will kill two Pokemon at the absolute maximum. Now if you use the best Closyer set for sweeping, which is the Naive/Jolly one with White Herb you will see that Ferro comfortably survives everything, and the same is true for all the other Pokemon that i mentioned (except from Gastro this was a brain fart). So all in all Closyer is hard to get in, weak to SR, walled easily after a boost, and revenge killed easily in general. As i said again, a shitty sweeper most of the time.

Maybe the on-site set got it wrong... I'd rather 1hko Ferrothorn+Jirachi+basically the whole metagame than outspeed scarf Terrakion..
You kind of can't proclaim you know exactly the best way to use Cloyster and I don't know what I'm talking about and say that Cloyster is complete garbage at the same time. That doesn't make sense.
I personally think that Cloyster is best as a late-game sweeper with Adamant NeverMeltIce and Screens+Spikes support. If Scarf Terrakion stops me every 200th game that it is used against me late-game... oh well.

[Hugin]

Originally Posted by Fat CabooseFTW

| 48 | Gastrodon | 4.48809% | 39103 | 4.114% | 31872 | 4.160% |

Why is this OU?

It's a Rain counter. It can wall any water-type attack. No, it's not good, but there's not a hell of a lot of things that want to switch in to Keldeo.

And the Infernape bandwagon's getting annoying. No, it's not good. It certainly doesn't deserve it's use. But what other fast Fire-types are there? Victini and Volcarona are the only ones in OU or UU who break base-100. Yeah, I'd rather use Victini, but Ape works much better against TTar and a couple others.

[alexwolf]

Originally Posted by Fat youngjake93

Maybe the on-site set got it wrong... I'd rather 1hko Ferrothorn+Jirachi+basically the whole metagame than outspeed scarf Terrakion..
You kind of can't proclaim you know exactly the best way to use Cloyster and I don't know what I'm talking about and say that Cloyster is complete garbage at the same time. That doesn't make sense.
I personally think that Cloyster is best as a late-game sweeper with Adamant NeverMeltIce and Screens+Spikes support. If Scarf Terrakion stops me every 200th game that it is used against me late-game... oh well.

Well with Adamant not only Scarf Terrakion is going to stop your sweep, but Scarf Keldeo, Scarf Jirachi, and Scarf Garchomp too. Anyway it can work for you sure, but this doesn't make it any better than it is. Whatever i mentioned is a hard fact. Cloyster is hard to bring in, hard to set-up, easy to wall, and easy to revenge kill. There are very few offensive teams that he can fit in, and this is why its usage should be lower.

[Nyara]

Nah, Cloyster is ok, he can sweep with the enough support, that means Dual Screens and/or beating Scarfers and using some hazard support (Stealth Rock + 1-2 layers of Spikes, ideally), because the Jolly/Naive nature is too easy to wall on OU that nobody should ever use it at all, and if you're supporting him for a sweep, you should go for all.or fail (because he's a failure if he's not sweeping, and he's not OU for it's spike+rapid spin support)

[youngjake93]

Originally Posted by Fat Hugin

And the Infernape bandwagon's getting annoying. No, it's not good. It certainly doesn't deserve it's use. But what other fast Fire-types are there? Victini and Volcarona are the only ones in OU or UU who break base-100. Yeah, I'd rather use Victini, but Ape works much better against TTar and a couple others.

I don't think you realize that there is no huge need to use a fast fire type..
Anyway, Mixnape is made irrelevant by Keldeo's pseudo-mix cabability, Scarf Darma+Victini outclass the scarf set, Volcarona is way better than any boosting variant, MixMoxMence is a much better surprise stall-breaker, and Mienshao is a better scout.

Originally Posted by Fat alexwolf

Well with Adamant not only Scarf Terrakion is going to stop your sweep, but Scarf Keldeo, Scarf Jirachi, and Scarf Garchomp too. Anyway it can work for you sure, but this doesn't make it any better than it is. Whatever i mentioned is a hard fact. Cloyster is hard to bring in, hard to set-up, easy to wall, and easy to revenge kill. There are very few offensive teams that he can fit in, and this is why its usage should be lower.

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cloyster through Reflect: 48-57 (19.83 - 23.55%) -- possible 5HKO
+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Razor Shell vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor in rain: 325-384 (94.75 - 111.95%) -- 68.75% chance to OHKO
Can set up on the most used Pokemon that is also happens to be an offensive mon with priority. Go Cloyster! You da man!

Also, lol Garchomp coming in on Cloyster to risk it being Jolly or having Ice Shard. Good idea.

[FrostFire]

Just a few comments.

Glad to see that Celebi is rising a bit; it's specially defensive set is so awesome right now, capable of stopping the likes of Keldeo and Sheer Force Landorus, as well as Breloom if you have Psychic/ HP fire/ HP ice. Nasty Plot is a really good set again too; I've been running it with Giga Drain/ Earth Power/ Psychic, and it's incredibly effective. IMO, Celebi still needs to rise quite a fair ways though, should be in the early twenties at least.

Still can't believe Landorus-I is only #33. Sheer Force is ridiculously powerful, and it's trolly speed allows it to get the jump on quite a bit of the unboosted meta as well. Lando definitely deserves top twenty usage imo.

Gliscor at 18 is a bit high; he just can't wall stuff like he used to in early BW1, what with Breloom able to punch through him now (PUN), and with the additions of Keldeo, Thundurus-T and SF Landorus making his life even harder. Honestly, I'd rather use Skarmory as my physically defensive wall right now, rather than Gliscor. This is mainly because of Skarm's ability to beat Breloom after Sleep Clause is activated, and Skarm being generally better against Dragons/ Outrage spam (though Magnezone is trouble, of course).

That said though, these stats are much better than the last couple of months. People can complain about Infernape (and that is getting old), but these stats seem to be, on the whole, more in line with my expectations.

Oh, and one last thing. Reuniclus at #52 is too low as well. CM might not be great any more, but OTR is a deadly late game cleaner. This deserves a bit more usage.

[Lavos Spawn]

another point of interest that seems to have gone overlooked is ditto weighing in at #62, with a little over 2% usage. this surprised me because given the exceptionally high number of offensive teams running around, one would assume that the original pink blob would see tons of usage, considering how it is the single greatest deterrant to setup sweepers of all time. but no, it appears ditto can't seem to get any love from the masses. i'd love to hear some other input on the niche that ditto fills in the current metagame, specifically whether or not it's worth a teamslot. in my experience it's always gone above and beyond against any opposing offensive team.

[Hugin]

It's a great general counter, but it doesn't actually fill any slots itself. I'd always love to include it, but there's just never space.

[Infernis]

Ditto is just odd. You rarely think, when setting up a team, "I could use any Pokemon." You might think, "Oh, I need something to stop chlorophyll sweepers like Venusaur.", and then look for a specific Pokemon that can do something about it. Ditto's main problem is that if your enemy isn't very effective against itself, Ditto isn't either. He won't do a whole lot against a stall team, with his lower HP and (probably) Choice Scarf. That said, he makes for one of the best Salamence/Haxorus/Other Boosting Sweeper counters out there, and can sweep in return to boot. But if you're only copying a Blissey or Forretress... there isn't a whole lot you can do with a Scarf Forretress. I don't like playing with only 5 Pokemon on a team.

[Lord of Bays]

Does all this "WHY ARE ESPEON AND METAGROSS BEING USED" talk mean I get to enjoy using them even more? Dual Screen Espeon is fantastic, and Choice Band Metagross has also been a delight. I think a lot of you are forgetting that he has base 130 Defense and he sponges Outrages like Spongebob sponges Krabby Patties.

Okay, that simile went horribly south, but my point remains!

[Bent1ey]

How many of those Espeons are teamed up with Ninjask? I'd like to see the Ninjask friend statistics.

[youngjake93]

Originally Posted by Fat Lord of Bays

and Choice Band Metagross has also been a delight. I think a lot of you are forgetting that he has base 130 Defense and he sponges Outrages like Spongebob sponges Krabby Patties.

Okay, that simile went horribly south, but my point remains!

Aggron has base 180 Defense and isn't weak to Fire Punch/Fire Fang/Fire Blast. It also has a arguably better movepool for a Choice Band set. Your argument is invalid.



And to the above poster^

| Teammates |
| Vaporeon +13.324% |
| Ninjask +8.467% |

Espeon is most popular on baton pass teams apparently.

[Bent1ey]

Thanks for the stats, as I imagined Espeon gets a good chunk of usage in BP.

Originally Posted by Fat youngjake93

Aggron has base 180 Defense and isn't weak to Fire Punch/Fire Fang/Fire Blast. It also has a arguably better movepool for a Choice Band set. Your argument is invalid.

You comparing Metagross with... Aggron?

I guess you may as well mention that Aggron also has the better STABs :|