Pokemon of the Week #16: Latias

[Mon]

If it wasn't for the terrible typing Kyurem(-B) would make a pretty nice wall.
I'm trying a sub-dragon tail phazer, so far, KyuB is better, mostly because of the increased amount of damage. Messes up stall teams, as not many members of a stall team can break his subs.

[mcdanger]

Originally Posted by Fat Onicon

One note: Dragon Claw seems to be redundant with Fusion Bolt in most cases. The only thing that is hit harder is Mamoswine, but this one is hardly worth a whole moveslot.
That's also one of my objections with mcdanger's set. We would rather have Ice Beam over Dragon Claw, because you otherwise get stalled by Celebi and cannot hit Landorus and Gliscor hard enough. Actually, the whole idea of NOT using STAB Ice Beam/Blizzard on any Kyurem appears so alien to us.

Also: Choice Scarfer can allow itself to run Adamant/Lonely if Haxorus is not an issue. If Salamence with an unknow set switches in you should get out anyway, scarf or not.

With the stab boost, dragon claw has a base power of 120 so it has a little more power then fusion bolt. I thought of running ice beam over dragon claw for a bolt-beam combo, especially since landorus therian can be a pain.

[Gimmick]

I had my initial doubts about Kyurem-B because of it's physical coverage, but after being introduced to a mixed set by Moet, I was amazed. It's absurdly bulky and so very powerful on both sides of the offensive spectrum. The Substitute + 3 attacks set almost always removes 2 or more Pokemon every single game. When playing against stall, it's a key weapon since it sets up Substitutes on pretty much anything (even Seismic Toss if you have 56 HP EVs).

Kyurem-B @ Leftovers
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 56 HP / 212 SAtk / 240 Spd
Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)
- Substitute
- Ice Beam (I use Blizzard on a hail team since it does have lower SAtk than normal Kyurem)
- Earth Power
- Fusion Bolt

This is the one I'm currently using on a rain team and it finds multiple opportunities to grab a Substitute. The HP EVs give it 405 HP for a SR number and 101 HP subs. It's designed to speed creep Jolly Mamoswine (Teravolt ignores Thick Fat) and Jolly Dog w/o sand. Extremely powerful BoltBeam + Ground coverage is outstanding and hits everything in the game. Teravolt is just icing on the cake. I found it useful in many situations, i.e. OHKOing Dragonite through Multiscale, OHKOing Donphan through Sturdy, ignoring Thick Fat, ignoring Levitate (Bronzong, Rotom-W, Gengar) and in one case it ignored a RestTalk Milotic's Marvel Scale lol. The weakness to SR and the most common priority moves (Bullet Punch and Mach Punch) are a bit annoying and calls for support, but it's well worth it. Starmie is an excellent partner for it, resisting Steel and Fighting while providing Rapid Spin support, but it can't exactly switch into Scizor or Breloom safely...

Overall, it's a very versatile Pokemon, but it still requires a bit of support. I'd only recommend using Roost on normal Kyurem or the bulkier KyuB sets because it really enjoys all the coverage it can get. Plus, normal Kyurem better abuses Roost with Pressure.

[Dice]

Thanks for all the sets and discussion so far!

What do you all think of Kyurem? There hasn't been much chatter about him yet.

[Seth Vilo]

For me, as I said in the Kyurem-B thread and as the Smogcast 15 picked up on, I've been using both of the Kyurem forms to partner with Volcarona in order to kill its counters and enable a great sweep. Thanks to Mold Breaker Terravolt Earth Power to kill Rotom-W and Heatran, and Fusion Bolt to kill Jellicent, Cube seems to be a slightly better partner for it than normal Ice-Dragon-o-Death in how I use them. Kyurem's 3 good elemental resistances are also great for a kind of glue and pivot as long as you keep hazards away (since I pack Volc too, Spin support is always with me so this is easy *coughStarmiecough*), especially with Water attacks and Volt Switch being everywhere. Volc - particularly bulkier ones - contributes to the synergy by stopping Breloom, Scizor, and general Fighting moves from murdering the corpse dragon. All you need in that duo is a Terrakion stop like Gliscor, Golurk, or Landorus-T, or Spikes stacking to dismay Terrakion from repeated switch ins.

700 BST. 170 Atk. I just love to play with Kyurem-B. I feel a surge of power in using what is practically a Pokemon god in OU.

[mcdanger]

Originally Posted by Fat Princess Bri

Thanks for all the sets and discussion so far!

What do you all think of Kyurem? There hasn't been much chatter about him yet.

Kyurem is good, but like dark said, hes beaten by kyurem black unless its a special set, like sub roost. Furthermore, kyurem is most effective in a hail team, tho i`ve used him with success in clear skies, and he can be used in rain, but only the sub roost set. Kyurem black however can function as a revenge killer like MCBarrents set, or as a wall breaker like onicon and gimmacks set, or a weather counter like my set, as well as a late game sweeper.
So to sum up my point, both kyurem and kyurem black are equally as good, but black outclasses normal kyurem in every set with the exception of special sets.

[Onicon]

Kyurem hardly outclasses Kyubey in special attacking. While even specially based Kyubeys resort to Fusion Bolt for the BoltBeam coverage (seriously, 376 Atk without investments is just sweet, and still higher than its SAtk), it does not do any less KOs with its lower SAtk. Besides, Kyurem does not have a neat way to bypass bulky Rotom-W (Pain Split) without Dragon Pulse, with is mostly reduntant with Ice Beam and therefore the inferior option. Kyubey screws over Levitation with Teravolt and therefore does not have to spend one of its moveslot. Secondly, Kyurem has to use LO Earth Power in order to 2HKO Mamoswine. That creates an undesirable situation because it allows your opponent to predict your next move more easily. Kyubey just Ice Beams though its Thick Fat for safer playing.

Honestly, Kyurem has to play a Pressure Rooster in order not to get outclassed. It has the choice between offensive Sub-Roost or defensive Sub-Roost, at least.

[mcdanger]

Originally Posted by Fat Onicon

Kyurem hardly outclasses Kyubey in special attacking. While even specially based Kyubeys resort to Fusion Bolt for the BoltBeam coverage (seriously, 376 Atk without investments is just sweet, and still higher than its SAtk), it does not do any less KOs with its lower SAtk. Besides, Kyurem does not have a neat way to bypass bulky Rotom-W (Pain Split) without Dragon Pulse, with is mostly reduntant with Ice Beam and therefore the inferior option. Kyubey screws over Levitation with Teravolt and therefore does not have to spend one of its moveslot. Secondly, Kyurem has to use LO Earth Power in order to 2HKO Mamoswine. That creates an undesirable situation because it allows your opponent to predict your next move more easily. Kyubey just Ice Beams though its Thick Fat for safer playing.

Honestly, Kyurem has to play a Pressure Rooster in order not to get outclassed. It has the choice between offensive Sub-Roost or defensive Sub-Roost, at least.

Which is roughly what I said. Speaking of which, Kyurem can also has a spot over black because pressure as onicon said, letting him PP stall, arguably making him a better shifter then kyurem black. Especially as the moves most pokemon use to break his sub only have 4 attacks from pressure.

[Bent1ey]

Pretty much spot on, original recipe Kyurem needs to play PP Stall in order to actually outclass his big brother, and the situations are far in between. I did like the way it worked on Hail teams, effectively stalling with Hail preventing your opponent's recovery is pretty neat.

[Dice]

What partners do you feel are best for Kyurem / Kyurem-B? What kinds of teams have you used them on?

[MCBarrett]

Originally Posted by Fat Princess Bri

What partners do you feel are best for Kyurem / Kyurem-B? What kinds of teams have you used them on?

There's a few things that Kyurem-B really hates and those are hazards, priority moves, scarfed musketeers, steel types and scarfed dragons. Thats kind of a lot which is why Kyurem-B needs a lot of support to be successful but i've found that a standard sun team provides that support pretty well.

Heatran and xatu can take steel and fighting type priority very easily. Xatu also does a very good job of protecting Kyurem-B from hazards and status. Keldeo has a very hard time against sun and both him terrakion can be revenge killed by venusaur. Obviously sun teams do a good job of clearing out steel types bar heatran. For that i ran a mamoswine, which also provided super effective priority to scarf dragons that were faster than scarf kyurem-b. I think these are all good partners in their own light and i think that scarf Kyurem-B has really good synergy on the average sun team

[Novaray]

Originally Posted by Fat Princess Bri

What partners do you feel are best for Kyurem / Kyurem-B? What kinds of teams have you used them on?

For Kyurem, the best partner in my opinion is honestly Abomasnow. Abomasnow's Hail Warning ability means Kyurem can abuse a 100% accuracy Blizzard that is extremely powerful. Hail damage is also great at chipping away at the HP of the opponent while ridding the field of Sandstorm damage which negates the Leftovers recovery on the Sub+Roost set which is the only Kyurem set I run. The only type of team I've run Kyurem on is Hail, I feel like it is outclassed by other special attackers such as Latios and Landorus on teams that do not use hail support.

[Seth Vilo]

Originally Posted by Fat Princess Bri

What partners do you feel are best for Kyurem / Kyurem-B? What kinds of teams have you used them on?

See my above post. I'm a Kyurem-B + Volcarona freak.

[Onicon]

For us, anything that draws out things that cannot break its sub. Ninetales almost guarantee an incoming Politoed, making double switching ridiculously easy.
And of course anything that needs its service, removing bulky water. Volcanora and Heatran comes in mind.

[mcdanger]

Something to handle scizor, ferrothorn, and jirachi, as all threaten to break kyurem sub, tho kyurem 3hkos jirachi via earth power. Something to handle fast fighting like terrakion and keldeo, as well as mach punch breloom. Thus magnezone/celebi are good partners, while offensively, breloom does a good job as it can low sweep threats that come in and spore/ko them.
Team style wise, kyurem black works good on a bulky offensive team, as well as balanced, while normal kyurem works on balanced and semi stall team.

[Milos]

2 very good partners for kyurem are tentacruel and landorus-t. both of them resist fighting attacks, while tentacruel resists water as well as steel, providing you a good check to scizor and keldeo once they force kyurem out. lando-t is my current favorite terrakion counter in the game, since it is not even 2HKO'd by choice band stone edge after intimidate.

here's a calc of 252 atk cb stone edge vs 252 hp/ 212 def+ lando-t after intimidate:

...

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357 Atk vs 277 Def & 382 HP (100 Base Power): 139 - 165 (36.39% - 43.19%)

basically, pokemon that can outright KO kyurem (keldeo, terrakion, scizor, breloom, fighting types faster than kyu) are handled by a combination of tentacruel and lando-t. breloom and keldeo are probably the most problematic of the bunch since loom can incapacitate something with spore and subcm keldeo will beat kyurem and tentacruel if toxic spikes weren't laid down beforehand. for this, latias makes a good offensive partner, being able to hit both with psyshock as well as resisting both of their STAB moves.

i feel like i've been posting a lot about kyurem lately... whatever

[Halcyon of Light]

Originally Posted by Fat Milos

2 very good partners for kyurem are tentacruel and landorus-t. both of them resist fighting attacks, while tentacruel resists water as well as steel, providing you a good check to scizor and keldeo once they force kyurem out. lando-t is my current favorite terrakion counter in the game, since it is not even 2HKO'd by choice band stone edge after intimidate.

here's a calc of 252 atk cb stone edge vs 252 hp/ 212 def+ lando-t after intimidate:

...

---

357 Atk vs 277 Def & 382 HP (100 Base Power): 139 - 165 (36.39% - 43.19%)

basically, pokemon that can outright KO kyurem (keldeo, terrakion, scizor, breloom, fighting types faster than kyu) are handled by a combination of tentacruel and lando-t. breloom and keldeo are probably the most problematic of the bunch since loom can incapacitate something with spore and subcm keldeo will beat kyurem and tentacruel if toxic spikes weren't laid down beforehand. for this, latias makes a good offensive partner, being able to hit both with psyshock as well as resisting both of their STAB moves.

i feel like i've been posting a lot about kyurem lately... whatever

I absolutely agree. I've been using a hail team with Lando-T and Tentacruel alongside Sub/Roost Kyurem, and they work really well together, dealing with annoying Keldeo and Terrakion that can be a huge pain for Hail teams in general. Breloom is only really a problem if it hasn't already Spored something, in which case something like Celebi might be useful as well. But part of what makes Kyurem so great is that it usually has a sub up when its counters come in, which means that you get a free hit on whatever that Pokémon might be (or you could Roost up) before sending in your counter to that counter.

[Bent1ey]

Originally Posted by Fat Milos

i feel like i've been posting a lot about kyurem lately... whatever

And you're welcomed, I've always had the itch to try Kyurem because its quite attractive with that crazy BST and his Ice STAB.

I admit that this week has me more excited than the Ninetales week...

What coverage would you run on a Sub+3 Attacks Kyurem-B build? (I'm thinking probably mixed?)

[Milos]

Originally Posted by Fat Bent1ey

What coverage would you run on a Sub+3 Attacks Kyurem-B build? (I'm thinking probably mixed?)

i ran sub + 3 attacks kyurem-b on a hyper offensive team with sub/outrage/ice beam/fusion bolt. outrage is pretty much necessary to just open holes in the opponent's team and fusion bolt takes care of skarmory/bulky waters (although in the case of rotom-w, you're better off just hitting it with outrage). i preferred ice beam to be able to KO dragons behind a sub without having to lock myself into outrage but it does leave kyu-b pretty useless against heatran, but the team i was using it on had at least 4 ways to KO it. if your team really dislikes heatran/jirachi, earth power could be used but usually ice beam is the superior choice.

[Onicon]

As anyone tried physicaly-mixed yet? We have thought that one up a while ago to answer a random question. This set tries to deal most of the damage though neutral damage on the physical side (LO is mandatory), while using its special moves to tech though certain threats.

Kyurem-B @ Life Orb
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 236 Spe
EVs: 252 Atk / 20 SAtk / 240 Spe (only for HP Fire)
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) or Lonely (+Atk, -Def)
- Fusion Bolt
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Focus Blast / Substitute
- Outrage / Substitute

Fusion Bolt is strong enough to 2HKO specially defensive Heatran and Jirachi after SR or Spikes and therefore is a good substitute for Earth Power on the specially mixed one.
We are a bit indecisive about the last two moves. Hidden Power Fire 2HKOs Forretress though its Sturdy and CB-Scizor 87.5% of the times outside of rain (100% with Lonely); Fusion Bolt 2HKOs it otherwise anyway. Focus Blast makes short work of Tyranitar and Mamoswine and 2HKOs Ferrothorn like HP Fire outside of rain (Adamant, Lonely does nothing).
Dragon Claw is NOT an option because of the redundant coverage with Fusion Bolt. However, Outrage is the viable to OHKO Mamoswine and it allows you to OHKO Gastrodon and Terrakion; without subs however, you cannot check the latter one properly.

How do you thing it fares against the specially mixed set? We hadn't the opportunity to test this one yet.

[PK Gaming]

I rarely use Kyurem, especially now that Kyurem-B is legal, but when I did I ran the Sub + 3 atks set. On Kyurem-B, I more or less use the same thing; Sub + 3 Attacks (mixed). I initially bought into the CB hype, but I find that the sub mixed sets are much, much more dangerous in the BW OU metagame. If you can find an opportunity to set up (not too hard with that insane bulk, provided you're healthy) Kyurem-B usually got me kills.

Teammate wise, I either ran a spinner (Tentacruel, Starmie, etc) or another Dragon since Kyurem-B lures out most, if not all dragon checks and beats them.

[Dice]

Later today I will change the Pokemon of the Week so post your final thoughts!

[Seth Vilo]

Final thought: using Kyurem-B in OU is basically wielding a god. But it lies at number 42 on the statistics for January. 42. The answer to Life, the Drizzle-verse, and Everything.

[Halcyon of Light]

I replaced Kyurem with Kyurem-B on my hail team, and I have to say, I love it more than I thought I would. There are a few times when I miss Pressure, but they don't outweigh the times when I'm glad I have the ability to destroy Bronzong and Rotom-W as well as pound bulky waters with Fusion Bolt. I've been using the set that (I think) BKC was recommending with Sub/Ice Beam/Fusion Bolt/Earth Power, and honestly it just makes me giddy how well it works in this metagame.

[Dice]

Latias

Type: Dragon / Psychic
Base Stats: 80 HP / 80 Atk / 90 Def / 110 SpA / 130 SpD / 110 Spe
Abilities: Levitate

Notable Moves:
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Roost
- Recover
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Healing Wish
- Psyshock
- Grass Knot
- Thunderbolt
- Surf
- Reflect Type
- Roar
- Wish

BW2 has drastically changed many player's thoughts on Latias. In BW1 if one wanted a Life Orb'd Lati@s they'd immediate use her brother, Latios; however, BW2's releases in abilities and Pokemon changed this. Keldeo, Special Landorus, Breloom, etc. now being released has made Latias a much more prominent figurehead in OU. With its unique typing coupled with fantastic Special bulk and great Special Attack, Latias is a powerhouse. Although she may be weaker than her brother, she comes with more bulk and a cool move in Healing Wish. Healing Wish gives you another sweeper on your team a second life, and can be gamechanging.

Discuss this new Pokemon of the Week!