Latios (BW2 Revamp) (QC 0/3)

[blarajan]

I used this

Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 72 Atk / 184 SAtk / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Psyshock
- Earthquake
- Draco Meteor

72 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs 252 HP/0 Def Jirachi: 46.04% - 54.46% (2-3 hits to KO)

72 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs 252 HP/0 Def Heatran: 92.23% - 108.81% (50% chance to OHKO)

72 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs 252 HP/0 Def Tyranitar: 42.57% - 50% (2-3 hits to KO)

72 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs 140 HP/0 Def Tyranitar: 45.74% - 53.72% (2-3 hits to KO)

Honestly though I don't particularly remember why exactly I'm using 72 Attack evs. Fairly certain it was the OHKO on Specially Defensive Heatran after SR and such but it could probably be more specific.

[Seth Vilo]

Also, I just want to be sure on this. On the Lati@s (or anything else wth this same problem) what's the reasoning behind going with Roost over Recover? I'm assuming it's for a random Imprison user - many of which are Psychic or Ghosts - that would block the Dragon from healing. This may be worth a one-sentence mentioning to people reading either of the Lati@s analysis entries.

Just as a reference, of the possible Imprison-users, the Reuniclus and Beheeyem families are able to use Recover; Kyurem, Reshiram, Zekrom, and the Swoobat family can use Roost.

Is there any reason to use one over the other that has been decided on by analysis-writers, or are we just picking one and staying consistent? I'm curious.

EDIT: Thanks papai and AG. That long-wondered question is now answered. I figured that's what it would be, but again curiosity made me formally ask. May deserve a sentence in the final analysis so others know the reasoning too.

[papai noel]

As far as I'm concerned, Roost is the best option because some people think that it nulifies Levitate, when, in fact, it doesn't. This is useful in some situations because you get a free turn of healing.

[AccidentalGreed]

Imprison is pretty much the only reason for Roost > Recover, since Latios and Latias can beat Imprison Kyurem and Swoobat, and would rather take their chances by setting up in front of the extremely rare Imprison + Recover Beheeyem and Reuiniclus (thanks #pokemon).

There is also no reason involving Levitate.

[Jukain]

what about special dd'er similar to the set used in like dpp ubers? just max SAtk max Spe DD / Dragon Pulse or Draco Meteor / HP Fire or Earthquake / Surf @ Life Orb. maybe fit Psyshock in. I'll do some testing and get back to you, but it sounds pretty promising.

[shrang]

Okay, I gave DD Latios a test today, and it wasn't bad, at the very least. It's not a bad late game cleaner which outspeeds everything with a DD boost. I know Scrafty is UU now, but if it was acceptable for that thing to have DD set when it was OU, why not Latios? I reckon it should get a heavy OO mention at the very least. I used:

[SET]
name: Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Outrage
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Draco Meteor
item: Dragon Gem
nature: Hasty
evs: 180 Atk / 76 SpA / 252 Spe

The EVs let you OHKO Hippowdon after SR with Draco Meteor, so I guess unless you run into Skarmory (which can't really take a Gem boosted Draco Meteor very well lategame anyway), you can swat aside any physical wall in your way while cleaning up frailer mons with boosted Outrages.

[BKC]

I think the Special Attack EVs on that set are unnecessary if they're specifically for Hippowdon, seeing as most Hippo are specially defensive nowadays [Impish or Careful, it doesn't matter]. Just throw them into Attack, which is a stat with which Latios needs all the help it can get.

[Frochtejohgurt]

I used DD Latios once on a team and it was very useful. At least useful enough to give it an analysis.

The set should mention that it most useful in sun. Even without SpA investment HP Fire OKHO's any steel that is immune or neutral to Earthquake except for Bronzong. Wouldbe checks like Ferrothron, Forretress, Skarmory, Bronzong and Scizor are all destroyed. With HP Fire Life Orb is superior to Dragon Gem as it gives Latios a much need boost on its physical attacks and insures a OHKO with sun boosted HP Fire on physically defensive Skarmory 99.7% of the time even without Stealth Rocks.

[RaikouLover]

DD Latios isn't too bad. I believe the common now was Outrage / Earthquake / Thunderbolt. The surprise factor is pretty significant, because people go to special walls then have to say "oh shit" and sack them, or try to take 2 +1 LO Outrages.

[Shurtugal]

Surprise Factor doesn't really matter when making analysis' though.

See this.

[Frochtejohgurt]

Surprise is maybe the wrong word. It's more like unpredictability, which is a reason for an analysis like it's mentioned in Jirachi's and Salamence's analysis.

[Shurtugal]

Unpredictability? You know exactly what its going to do as soon as you see Dragon Dance -- not to mention Outrage misses so many KO's at +2 it isn't even funny. I know from experience, as I've used it in BW1, and I'm unhappy to say it was a major failure.

[alexwolf]

In the Additonal Comments of the Specs set mention Heatran, Ferrothorn, and Bronzong, as partners for the Specs set. Awesome offensive and defensive synergy, and all are able to provide SR and / or Spikes. Partners that can abuse a choice locked Pursuit from Tyranitar, or partners that can beat Tyranitar in general (as you can at least double switch at them when predicting the Ttar switch-in) should also be mentioned. Offensive SD Scizor, SD Terrakion, and SD Lucario are all great choices.

In general, bulky Steel-types that can set up hazards are some of Latios's best partners and should be mentioned in the AC of all sets, so please take care of it.

Finally, mention Weavile in checks and counters.

[shrang]

Okay, I tried DD Latios lately, talked it over with SDS and other QC members and have come to the conclusion that it's worth an analysis. Base 90 Attack is a bit weak, but it performs quite decently as a late game cleaner after its checks and counters have been weakened. Its biggest attraction is obviously its impressive Speed, which lets it avoid being revenge killed by common revenge killers such as Modest Venusaur in the sun, Adamant Stoutland in the sand, Scarf Terrakion and Scarf Keldeo. It's not a bad lure for Heatran and Jirachi either, both of which you can flatten with Earthquake on the switch when they expect a special set.

The set is:

[SET]
name: Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Outrage
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Thunderbolt
item: Life Orb
nature: Hasty
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

- I'd put Draco Meteor and Dragon Claw in AC as well. I've been using Draco Meteor a lot, and it's not a bad move for you to spam a bit in the early game to bluff a special set, as well as kill off more physically defensive Pokemon like Slowbro, and just kill off frailer Pokemon such as Gengar without having to resort to Outrage. Dragon Claw is weak, but it does serve a purpose for when you don't want to get locked into Outrage, I guess.
Edit:
- Other AC: Thunder for rain teams, Roost / Recover for healing

[Jukain]

Thunder should probably get an AC mention on that.

You should add Ferrothorn in rain to C&C.

just two quick things~

[Shurtugal]

Roost should also get an AC, afterall, it allows it to set up on things like HP Ice Heatran up to +3, as well as allow it to better take hits from stuff like Keldeo.

[alexwolf]

shrang have you tried using DD as a way to power up EQ, allowing it to beat common checks and counters, and to allow Latios to clean up late game, while at the same time keeping Latios's role as a special attacker and revenge killer against almost anything unboosted? I don't think that Latios needs such a large Atk investement and i am not sure abut D-Claw and Outrage too. I mean without Draco Meteor or Dragon Pulse you are losing so much potential of Latios in early and mid game. Latios can't revenge kill anything except for Pokemon 4x weak to its coverage move and Dragon-types with your set. The set i have in mind is this one:

[SET]
name: Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Hidden Power Fire
item: Life Orb
nature: Naive
evs: 160 Atk / 96 SpA / 252 Spe

The EVs allow Latios to always 2HKO 252 HP Ttar and Jirachi after SR and always OHKO 248 HP Heatran without SR. Then the rest are thrown to SpA for as much power as possible. Even with 96 SpA EVs DM still hurts and can revenge kill a whole bunch of stuff. Here is a useful calc:

• DM vs 4 HP Keldeo / Terrakion: 89.5 - 105.86%, 75% chance to OHKO after SR

And those two are some of the most bulky offensive Pokemon in OU, meaning that anything frailer than them (most offensive Pokemon) will get OHKOed by DM after SR. At late game, you can still get two kills if your grab a DD, one with EQ on the opposing Ttar, Jirachi, Heatran or whatever, and another one with DM, which is pretty cool imo. Dragon Pulse if you want to have a higher chance for a clean sweep, but you are gonna need a lot of entry hazards to make it work, and again Latios becomes a lot less threatening in early and mid game.

[Shurtugal]

Can't you just use 96 atk investment 2HKO Rachi / Tran / TTar at +0 anyway? Correct me if I'm wrong but that's what I always thought the EVs were. You could put more into SAtk if this is true.

[alexwolf]

As i said, 160 Atk EVs are needed to 2HKO Ttar and Jirachi, and OHKO Heatran, all with 252 HP EVs and after SR (and without a DD).

[shrang]

Well, I used Draco Meteor in the last slot in my testing, and while it's not anywhere near as powerful as a fully invested one, it still allowed Latios to relatively hard in the early game with just that.

[alexwolf]

Pls lock this.