Gen4 CAP Pre-Evolution Rules & Discussion

***Birkal**** · Aug 8th, 2012, 1:18:49 AM

Hello and welcome! As many of you read in this thread, we are going to officialize the generation 4 CAP pre-evolutions as a community. In order to do so, I figured it would be wise to have a place to create them; thus, this subforum was created. It used to be the Analysis Workshop subforum, but we seldom used it. Now that it's refurbished into the CAP Pre-Evolution Workshop subforum, we can get to work.

To preface how this will function, I'd like to lay down a few ground rules:

Flavor is the only priority when it comes to creating these pre-evolutions. We need to make sure that literally everything we do is done with the purpose of creating plausible and believable Pokemon. We absolutely do not want to mess with the Gen4 CAPs in any way, so we need to make sure our flavor choices are accurate in terms of what we'd expect from a real Pokemon. I cannot emphasize how important this is, really. We won't stand for pre-evolutions that are drastically different from what should be expected of a typical Pokemon. Changing more than one ability, creating clashing movepool with the fully evolved CAP, and changing more than one typing will be strictly prohibited, to name a few no-nos.

Going hand in hand with this point, we need to understand that viability in the Little Cup metagame does not matter. If fact, I am hoping that we form our pre-evolutions to cover a wide spectrum of viability. For example, some pre-evolutions should be probably perform poorly in the LC metagame, while others should do quite well. How viable they are does not matter; flavor is our top and only priority. Where they fall in Little Cup is not our concern in the slightest.
We must be historically accurate. Through this process, we're going to do a lot of perusing through the CAP Process Archive to learn as much as we possibly can about what exists on the Gen4 pre-evolutions. We will also be referring to it frequently to make our flavor portions as accurate as possible by looking at the process of each Gen4 CAP. I'd recommend getting acquainted with this subforum; we're going to be using it a lot.

Another point to consider historically is that the current Pre-Evo Process didn't exist in Gen4. Rather, designs were submitted and proposed in a much looser fashion. Breezi and Voodoom, for example, were largely designed by a single artist (Cartoons! and DougJustDoug respectively) simply as an extra flavor add-on. Others, like Collosshale, was created as more of a community effort. Regardless of their origin, these designs have become integrated into the community's mindset and widely accepted. For that reason, there won't be any editing or changing of their artistic designs. Rather, we'll be focusing on what isn't set in stone (movepool, Pokedex, ability, etc) for the duration of this project.
Everything will be done as a community. These pre-evolutions are going to be run much like a typical CAP, process and all. However, there are already puzzle pieces filled in for us; they all have sprites, artwork, and names! What we'll be doing as a community is widely dependent on what isn't currently decided upon (remember that CAP ASB holds no water with this project). It will be publicly announced what is and what isn't completed for each CAP pre-evo at the start of its officializing so that everyone is on the same page. Then, it will be the community's job to discuss and vote on the missing puzzle pieces to create our final product.

That's about all I have for now. Each process will be run by a Topic Leader of sorts; their responsibilities will include posting topics in the process and selecting slates. I'll be heading up the first process with Syclar, the pre-evolution to Syclant. If you want to get a head start, Syclant's process started here, so I'd recommend reading up if you have the time. The purpose of this thread is to ask me and the other CAP moderators about any questions you have about this pre-evolution officializing process. If you have any suggestions or thoughts, feel free to post them here. Thanks for your time; I can't wait to get started on this!

Mari · Aug 8th, 2012, 6:40:49 PM

That they need stats is obviously, but do they need BOTH Gen4 AND a Gen5 movepool/abilitypool or only the Gen5 ones???

**jas61292** · Aug 8th, 2012, 8:06:46 PM

Well, I can't say with 100% certainty what the plan is, but since the CAPs themselves, with the exception of their sprites, were never updated to gen 5, I would assume that, other than sprites, everything we do will be 4th gen only, at least for now.

Delta Nite · Aug 9th, 2012, 12:59:50 AM

Do they all have artwork? I've only seen sprites...

Anyways, I've been lurking for a while now, and since this is flavor-centered, it may be easier to start contributing.

***Birkal**** · Aug 9th, 2012, 1:13:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Mari

That they need stats is obviously, but do they need BOTH Gen4 AND a Gen5 movepool/abilitypool or only the Gen5 ones???

jas61292 is absolutely correct; these pre-evolutions will be created for Gen4 for the time being. I know there have been discussions of updating 4th Gen CAPs to the new generation. However, that isn't our concern with this project. Again, or goal is to create believable and realistic Gen4 CAP pre-evolutions, from utilizing a Gen4 movepool to making D/P/P style Pokedex entries. Sorry for the confusion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Delta Nite

Do they all have artwork? I've only seen sprites...

Anyways, I've been lurking for a while now, and since this is flavor-centered, it may be easier to start contributing.

Most do indeed have artwork. If they don't have artwork, then we can draw up some supplementary art if we feel like it to compliment the sprite. We'll take it step by step as the project goes. For Syclar, there is definitely artwork; check it out:

...

And I'm glad that you'll be joining us! This project is open to all users, so I am hoping we'll see plenty of new faces throughout these processes. Make sure to PM a CAP moderator (or check out this thread) if you have further questions. Welcome aboard!

Espeon65 · Aug 18th, 2012, 9:57:13 PM

Should we just post ideas we have for the pre-evos here? Like that Syclar should evolve into Syclant at level 37 or 14 or whatever?

**jas61292** · Aug 18th, 2012, 10:09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Espeon65

Should we just post ideas we have for the pre-evos here? Like that Syclar should evolve into Syclant at level 37 or 14 or whatever?

More detailed threads on the specific parts of the prevos will be upcoming shortly, so you can wait until those are up and post your ideas in the appropriate threads. This thread itself is more for questions or comments on the pre-evo making process itself.

Espeon65 · Aug 18th, 2012, 10:13:33 PM

okay, thanks

ShinyDreamer · Aug 19th, 2012, 9:39:59 AM

First of all, let me say: I love Nocturine. Awesome-weird little creature.

Second, do we have stat rules about the prevos? Like, are we never going to make a prevolution that is much faster than its evolved form, or something? I can think of a few examples of that one in the official game (Anorith, maybe Numel).

DHR-107 · Aug 19th, 2012, 2:49:30 PM

I would assume that is down to how people want the stats to look. As you say there are a few examples of Pokémon getting slower after they evolve. Most CaPs seem to be the sort of Pokémon who would get faster when they evolve.

We kinda want to keep "LC" considerations out... But people will try for them anyway.

Yarnus of Bethany · Aug 19th, 2012, 4:03:41 PM

When will more specific threads go up?

***Birkal**** · Aug 19th, 2012, 4:35:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Yarnus of Bethany

When will more specific threads go up?

~~today ;)~~ tomorrow because I was busy with OU stuff

coolbiz · Aug 19th, 2012, 8:39:11 PM

Is there anything a non-artistic, CAP lover such as myself can do? Even the smallest of things I would love to try and help with this project :D
Sorry if this is posted in the wrong place, please feel free to delete this post if need be...

Pwnemon · Aug 19th, 2012, 8:54:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat coolbiz

Is there anything a non-artistic, CAP lover such as myself can do? Even the smallest of things I would love to try and help with this project :D
Sorry if this is posted in the wrong place, please feel free to delete this post if need be...

heck yes! We need movepools, stats, typings, dex entries, i might even be missing some other things too. Stay tuned!

SpecsX · Aug 19th, 2012, 8:56:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat coolbiz

Is there anything a non-artistic, CAP lover such as myself can do? Even the smallest of things I would love to try and help with this project

^this. Flavor is one of my favorite things about CAP. I'd love to creat Dex entries or something lke that if you need someone.
EDIT: Ninja'd

eric the espeon · Aug 21st, 2012, 9:47:19 PM

Better late than never :D. Stratagem and Pyroak pre-evo artwork if you've not already tracked it down.

DHR-107 · Feb 5th, 2013, 12:30:45 PM

So I've spent most of the day trying to find/tidy up stuff that I had found before on the rest of the CaP Prevolutions. This has taken me a fair amount of time to track down, and there is a lot of segmented/broken up information that I haven't been able to find or even source from anywhere.

Breezi - Typing Poison/Flying (I think) (Breezie/Breezee/Breezy)
Images
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=185

Ability Ideas – Own Tempo -> Vital Spirit
Unburden (into Persistant)/Run Away/Oblivious/Unaware/Early Bird

Evolution Ideas - Evolution at Level 26 (X-Act), Evolve Via Level Up holding Iron Ball

Basic Movepool by X-Act
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...1&postcount=66
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...5&postcount=80

Rebble & Boulderdash (?)

Images

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...0&postcount=11

Seems to be all I can find on these two little critters. Just the single image. The rest is from the sprites below, but I would assume they also have the single Rock typing that Stratagem has.

Privatyke

This is literally the only thing I could find for Privatyke. I assume Cartoons! Might have some sketches somewhere but where I have no idea.

Nohface

Nohface’s design was voted by the community in this thread: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3457785

Monohm and Duohm (Duclohm)

I have seen many different spelling of Duohm's name. I am certain at some point it has been corrupted and broken down and now there are several variants of the name in use.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=126

Mix of CyberZero and Kensinkae’s work came out to be the prevo designs for Cyclohm.

These two sprites are from Wyverii’s CaPmon sprite revamping thread, no idea if they are up to date, but they are certainly nicely done.

Colosshale

Cartoons! Again came up with this sprite for Collosoil’s prevo. I believe the typing is supposed to be Dark/Water or something similar, there are also a fair few arguments for “Yellow Submarines” to be used as shiny sprites!

http://www.smogon.com/forums/group.p...1#gmessage1311 seems to have been a fair amount of discussion here. There are some suggestions for stats spreads and artwork for 2 prevo’s, I have no idea when it was decided to be just one. I can't seem to find any evidence as to when it was decided that one prevo would be all Collosoil gets.

Krillowatt’s prevo

As far as I am aware, there are *many* different sprites/designs and names having been put forward for this particular line. I do not think *anything* has been super defined and voted on for a solid design. Many of the designs and names are in Wyverii’s Sprite update thread.

This is the image that Wyverii has, but I do not know if this is 100% official or not. Protowatt, Attowatt, Plicowatt etc have all been suggested as names.

EDIT: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3456401 found a name/design poll but the winning poll option art link is dead...

Voodoll

I assume Doug may have some other artwork around. I can't find much past this sprite which was done my Sgt.Woodsy.

EDIT: Thanks Menshay, good find on the Voodoll artwork!

And then thus post by DougJustDoug: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=504

Birkal, if anything here is wrong feel free to update it, but this should give us some idea on what to work from. the amount of information is fairly small I know, but it's the best I could do.

Menshay · Feb 6th, 2013, 5:29:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat DHR-107

Voodoll
I assume Doug may have some other artwork around. I can;t find much past this sprite which was done my Sgt.Woodsy.

There's this, and I distinctly remember a coloured version somewhere (I assume it's further in the same thread).
EDIT: found it.

Dracoyoshi8 · Mar 29th, 2013, 3:37:10 PM

I couldn't find a shiny for Privatyke. Idk if I'm not looking in the right places or not, but regardless I made one.

I like pink. Vitalimar would be proud. The beak seems way too bright for some reason. Ah well, I tried.

Quanyails · Jun 9th, 2013, 10:35:00 PM

Wyverii's made a Monohm front sprite animation, I just found out.

I believe pre-evos without a complete set of sprites will have those to be created and voted upon, so hold onto your shinies!

Aug 8th, 2012, 1:18:49 AM	#1
*Birkal We have the technology. Super Moderator** Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 3,070 The Mentor	Gen4 CAP Pre-Evolution Rules & Discussion Hello and welcome! As many of you read in this thread, we are going to officialize the generation 4 CAP pre-evolutions as a community. In order to do so, I figured it would be wise to have a place to create them; thus, this subforum was created. It used to be the Analysis Workshop subforum, but we seldom used it. Now that it's refurbished into the CAP Pre-Evolution Workshop subforum, we can get to work. To preface how this will function, I'd like to lay down a few ground rules: Flavor is the only priority when it comes to creating these pre-evolutions. We need to make sure that literally everything we do is done with the purpose of creating plausible and believable Pokemon. We absolutely do not want to mess with the Gen4 CAPs in any way, so we need to make sure our flavor choices are accurate in terms of what we'd expect from a real Pokemon. I cannot emphasize how important this is, really. We won't stand for pre-evolutions that are drastically different from what should be expected of a typical Pokemon. Changing more than one ability, creating clashing movepool with the fully evolved CAP, and changing more than one typing will be strictly prohibited, to name a few no-nos. Going hand in hand with this point, we need to understand that viability in the Little Cup metagame does not matter. If fact, I am hoping that we form our pre-evolutions to cover a wide spectrum of viability. For example, some pre-evolutions should be probably perform poorly in the LC metagame, while others should do quite well. How viable they are does not matter; flavor is our top and only priority. Where they fall in Little Cup is not our concern in the slightest. We must be historically accurate. Through this process, we're going to do a lot of perusing through the CAP Process Archive to learn as much as we possibly can about what exists on the Gen4 pre-evolutions. We will also be referring to it frequently to make our flavor portions as accurate as possible by looking at the process of each Gen4 CAP. I'd recommend getting acquainted with this subforum; we're going to be using it a lot. Another point to consider historically is that the current Pre-Evo Process didn't exist in Gen4. Rather, designs were submitted and proposed in a much looser fashion. Breezi and Voodoom, for example, were largely designed by a single artist (Cartoons! and DougJustDoug respectively) simply as an extra flavor add-on. Others, like Collosshale, was created as more of a community effort. Regardless of their origin, these designs have become integrated into the community's mindset and widely accepted. For that reason, there won't be any editing or changing of their artistic designs. Rather, we'll be focusing on what isn't set in stone (movepool, Pokedex, ability, etc) for the duration of this project. Everything will be done as a community. These pre-evolutions are going to be run much like a typical CAP, process and all. However, there are already puzzle pieces filled in for us; they all have sprites, artwork, and names! What we'll be doing as a community is widely dependent on what isn't currently decided upon (remember that CAP ASB holds no water with this project). It will be publicly announced what is and what isn't completed for each CAP pre-evo at the start of its officializing so that everyone is on the same page. Then, it will be the community's job to discuss and vote on the missing puzzle pieces to create our final product. That's about all I have for now. Each process will be run by a Topic Leader of sorts; their responsibilities will include posting topics in the process and selecting slates. I'll be heading up the first process with Syclar, the pre-evolution to Syclant. If you want to get a head start, Syclant's process started here, so I'd recommend reading up if you have the time. The purpose of this thread is to ask me and the other CAP moderators about any questions you have about this pre-evolution officializing process. If you have any suggestions or thoughts, feel free to post them here. Thanks for your time; I can't wait to get started on this! Last edited by Birkal; Aug 8th, 2012 at 1:30:40 AM.

Aug 8th, 2012, 6:40:49 PM	#2
Mari Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 172 Aachen, Germany	That they need stats is obviously, but do they need BOTH Gen4 AND a Gen5 movepool/abilitypool or only the Gen5 ones??? __________________ Challenge Cup 1 vs 1 - Torchic vs Arceus-Normal /Challenge Cup - Trapinch / VGC 2013 - 3-Turn-Win Balanced Hackmons - Arceus Home Run / Challenge Cup 1 vs 1 - Epic: Magikarp vs. Zapdos OU - Feel the power of Sub Magnezone / Challenge Cup 1 vs 1 - How important accuracy really is ... 1 vs 1 - Epic

Aug 8th, 2012, 8:06:46 PM	#3
jas61292 likes his numbers Moderator Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,298 Strong as a Corsola	Well, I can't say with 100% certainty what the plan is, but since the CAPs themselves, with the exception of their sprites, were never updated to gen 5, I would assume that, other than sprites, everything we do will be 4th gen only, at least for now. __________________ <Destiny_Warrior> jas will you do the dramatic reading <jas61292> I can't do anything dramatically. Not the actor type <Kadew> type tldr prc posts dramatically, then <Kadew> I'm sure you can manage that .

Aug 19th, 2012, 9:39:59 AM	#9
ShinyDreamer Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 53	First of all, let me say: I love Nocturine. Awesome-weird little creature. Second, do we have stat rules about the prevos? Like, are we never going to make a prevolution that is much faster than its evolved form, or something? I can think of a few examples of that one in the official game (Anorith, maybe Numel). __________________ † I am a Christian and proud of it! Copy and paste this if you are too.† If Shiny Pokemon are rare and DreamWorld Pokemon are comparatively uncommon, then a Shiny Pokemon from the DreamWorld must be...

Aug 19th, 2012, 2:49:30 PM	#10
DHR-107 Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 461 Their World	I would assume that is down to how people want the stats to look. As you say there are a few examples of Pokémon getting slower after they evolve. Most CaPs seem to be the sort of Pokémon who would get faster when they evolve. We kinda want to keep "LC" considerations out... But people will try for them anyway. __________________ I'm on a mission to train every Pokemon Family during a playthrough of 3rd to 5th Gen! Currently at: 532/602! Current Team (White 2 [6 badges]): Ninetales/Zoroark/Mr Mime/Cherrim/Sawsbuck/Swampert Current Team (Black 2): Solrock/Emboar/Sunflora/Crobat/Dunsparce/Azumarill

Aug 9th, 2012, 12:59:50 AM	#4
Delta Nite Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 73	Do they all have artwork? I've only seen sprites... Anyways, I've been lurking for a while now, and since this is flavor-centered, it may be easier to start contributing.

Aug 18th, 2012, 9:57:13 PM	#6
Espeon65 Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 791 Akron, Ohio	Should we just post ideas we have for the pre-evos here? Like that Syclar should evolve into Syclant at level 37 or 14 or whatever?

Aug 18th, 2012, 10:13:33 PM	#8
Espeon65 Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 791 Akron, Ohio	okay, thanks

Aug 19th, 2012, 4:03:41 PM	#11
Yarnus of Bethany Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,844 In the world, but not of the world	When will more specific threads go up?

Aug 19th, 2012, 8:39:11 PM	#13
coolbiz Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 644 portal eye'd	Is there anything a non-artistic, CAP lover such as myself can do? Even the smallest of things I would love to try and help with this project :D Sorry if this is posted in the wrong place, please feel free to delete this post if need be... __________________ My Pokecheck #smogonwifi is a awesome place (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡zıqןooɔ \|\|ʕ ●ᴥ●ʔ \|\| coolbiz ノ( º _ ºノ)

Aug 21st, 2012, 9:47:19 PM	#16
eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,696	Better late than never :D. Stratagem and Pyroak pre-evo artwork if you've not already tracked it down. __________________ For people who like storing things: The Box Reading and LC? LCF, LC Guide, LC Analyses Good channels: #littlecup, #C&C, #1v1, others And for SCMS editors: SCMS group ete on IRC. Goodbye Smogon. Good luck, was fun while it lasted.

Feb 5th, 2013, 12:30:45 PM	#17
DHR-107 Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 461 Their World	So I've spent most of the day trying to find/tidy up stuff that I had found before on the rest of the CaP Prevolutions. This has taken me a fair amount of time to track down, and there is a lot of segmented/broken up information that I haven't been able to find or even source from anywhere. Breezi - Typing Poison/Flying (I think) (Breezie/Breezee/Breezy) Images http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=185 Ability Ideas – Own Tempo -> Vital Spirit Unburden (into Persistant)/Run Away/Oblivious/Unaware/Early Bird Evolution Ideas - Evolution at Level 26 (X-Act), Evolve Via Level Up holding Iron Ball Basic Movepool by X-Act http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...1&postcount=66 http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...5&postcount=80 Rebble & Boulderdash (?) Images http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...0&postcount=11 Seems to be all I can find on these two little critters. Just the single image. The rest is from the sprites below, but I would assume they also have the single Rock typing that Stratagem has. Privatyke This is literally the only thing I could find for Privatyke. I assume Cartoons! Might have some sketches somewhere but where I have no idea. Nohface Nohface’s design was voted by the community in this thread: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3457785 Monohm and Duohm (Duclohm) I have seen many different spelling of Duohm's name. I am certain at some point it has been corrupted and broken down and now there are several variants of the name in use. http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=126 Mix of CyberZero and Kensinkae’s work came out to be the prevo designs for Cyclohm. These two sprites are from Wyverii’s CaPmon sprite revamping thread, no idea if they are up to date, but they are certainly nicely done. Colosshale Cartoons! Again came up with this sprite for Collosoil’s prevo. I believe the typing is supposed to be Dark/Water or something similar, there are also a fair few arguments for “Yellow Submarines” to be used as shiny sprites! http://www.smogon.com/forums/group.p...1#gmessage1311 seems to have been a fair amount of discussion here. There are some suggestions for stats spreads and artwork for 2 prevo’s, I have no idea when it was decided to be just one. I can't seem to find any evidence as to when it was decided that one prevo would be all Collosoil gets. Krillowatt’s prevo As far as I am aware, there are many different sprites/designs and names having been put forward for this particular line. I do not think anything has been super defined and voted on for a solid design. Many of the designs and names are in Wyverii’s Sprite update thread. This is the image that Wyverii has, but I do not know if this is 100% official or not. Protowatt, Attowatt, Plicowatt etc have all been suggested as names. EDIT: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3456401 found a name/design poll but the winning poll option art link is dead... Voodoll I assume Doug may have some other artwork around. I can't find much past this sprite which was done my Sgt.Woodsy. EDIT: Thanks Menshay, good find on the Voodoll artwork! And then thus post by DougJustDoug: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=504 Birkal, if anything here is wrong feel free to update it, but this should give us some idea on what to work from. the amount of information is fairly small I know, but it's the best I could do. __________________ I'm on a mission to train every Pokemon Family during a playthrough of 3rd to 5th Gen! Currently at: 532/602! Current Team (White 2 [6 badges]): Ninetales/Zoroark/Mr Mime/Cherrim/Sawsbuck/Swampert Current Team (Black 2): Solrock/Emboar/Sunflora/Crobat/Dunsparce/Azumarill Last edited by DHR-107; Feb 6th, 2013 at 4:20:22 PM.

Mar 29th, 2013, 3:37:10 PM	#19
Dracoyoshi8 weapon of mass seduction Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 600 intentionally infiltrates	I couldn't find a shiny for Privatyke. Idk if I'm not looking in the right places or not, but regardless I made one. I like pink. Vitalimar would be proud. The beak seems way too bright for some reason. Ah well, I tried. __________________

Jun 9th, 2013, 10:35:00 PM	#20
Quanyails Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 375	Wyverii's made a Monohm front sprite animation, I just found out. I believe pre-evos without a complete set of sprites will have those to be created and voted upon, so hold onto your shinies! __________________ .