Pokémon X and Y Discussion

[lmitchell0012]

So...you think we're going to get another eeveelution this gen?? I personally would really like a ghost type and a steel type. They could call the steel type "Chromeon" (since it's made of chrome steel).

[Mario With Lasers]

Originally Posted by Fat Yveltal

not counting Gen VI, 91% of all non-legendary pokemon are connected through evolution. in Gen IV, the percentage of non-legendaries that had a connection to evolution was also 91%. in Gen III, almost 90% of all non-legendaries had a connection. There's a rough constant of pokemon that can evolve vs pokemon that can't evolve that I think Game Freak has kept in mind for a long time.

Interestingly enough, Prof. Rowan says something in the lines of "roughly 90% of the pokémon are connected in evolutionary families". This means that, liking it or not, we'll have 70-80 pokémon in XY which still do not evolve. Considering ~50 will be legendaries... Still 20-30 with no evo or pre-evo. And I bet Pinsir will be among them. Derp.


...Hey wait. How many pokémon with no evolutionary lines do we have NOW? We could predict how many of them will evolve in XY...

[Zowayix]

Originally Posted by Fat Mario With Lasers

...Hey wait. How many pokémon with no evolutionary lines do we have NOW? We could predict how many of them will evolve in XY...

Here's a nice chronological list:
Gen I: 20/146 (13.7%) without legendaries, 25/151 (16.6%) with
Gen II: 32/240 (13.3%) without legendaries, 43/251 (17.1%) with
Gen III: 52/365 (14.2%) without legendaries, 73/386 (18.9%) with
Gen IV: 42/458 (9.2%) without legendaries, 77/493 (15.6%) with
Gen V: 56/601 (9.3%) without legendaries, 104/649 (16.0%) with

---
On another note, I wonder what it would be like if Shedinja had 5 HP like in the Mystery Dungeon games.

Almost all SE attacks and stuff like confusion would still KO Shedinja in one hit, but now it can survive stuff like Sandstorm, Hail, Toxic, Spikes, and Stealth Rock for 4 turns.

It would be a nice middle ground between what it is now and the Magic Guard proposal, but unfortunately the potential's stuck in a spin-off game.

[Lorenz]

Yeah I always took it as foreshadowing from Gen 4 when Rowan spoke of evolution that everything non-legend status in the game will get an evolution at some point.

[The Cicada]

Originally Posted by Fat TheKAM1993

I've wanted them to change Pick Up to where it will Pick Up all the entry hazards on your side of the field, basically an auto rapid spin.

Wouldnt trying to pick up spikes, or giant floating rocks hurt? It would have to take extra dmg upon doing so or something

[Infernis]

Come on people, we literally just talked about this.

Originally Posted by Fat Infernis

Gen IV added 22 evolutions and 7 pre-evolutions. Gen III added 2 pre-evolutions. Gen II added 11 evolutions and 7 pre-evolutions. Gen V added 0 of both.

9 of Gen II's evolutions were added to previously standalone Pokemon. Only wynaut was added to a standalone Pokemon in Gen III. Gen IV added 15.

If the new game adds a similar amount as Johto and Sinnoh, it'll have 100-ish new Pokemon. 56 non-legendary Pokemon do not evolve out of 607. If they add in 105 more Pokemon, and 10 of them are legendary, that means that 9 or 10 of them would be unrelated to any other Pokemon. Or, more accurately, that will be the net gain of non-evolving Pokemon.

At the time the games were released, 19 were standalone in Gen I, 21 in gen II, 18 in gen III, 8 in gen IV, and 13 in gen V.

After later games added evolutions: 6 cannot evolve in Gen I, 12 in gen II, 15 in gen III, 8 in gen IV, and 13 in gen V.

That's an average of 16 non-evolving Pokemon added per game. To maintain the 91% balance of evolution, 6 pokemon who previously could note evolve would need to be given evolutions. The largest category is Gen 3, but most likely they'd give some love to the other generations with one or two from those.

My candidates? Tropius, Absol, Relicanth, Mawile, Sableye, Corsola, Sawk/Throh, Skarmory, and Kecleon.

We will always have Pokemon that don't evolve, but it is incredibly likely that older ones will evolve as time passes. A few may remain as they are, but most will be given an evolution eventually.

And that 90% statistic only applies if you don't count legendaries. (Which makes the number of non-evolving non-legendary Pokemon a significantly different value.)

[TheMrBassdude]

Originally Posted by Fat The Cicada

Wouldnt trying to pick up spikes, or giant floating rocks hurt? It would have to take extra dmg upon doing so or something

Actually, I really, really like that idea. It would make the new Pickup vs Rapid Spin an actual debate, trying to figure out whether or not it's worth crippling this Pokemon, in exchange for not needing a turn to Spin

[Mario With Lasers]

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wi..._do_not_evolve

Oh, I love Bulbapedia.

Gen I: 151 new pokémon, 7 (4.636%) with no family, 5 (3.311%) legendary. 7.947% in Gen I, 7.947% in total.
Gen II: 100 new pokémon, 12 (12%) with no family, 6 (6%) legendary. 18% in Gen II, 11.952% in total.
Gen III: 135 new pokémon, 18 (13.333%) with no family, 10 (7.407%) legendary. 20.74% in Gen III, 15.025% in total.
Gen IV: 107 new pokémon, 5 (4.673%) with no family, 14 (13.084%) legendary. 17.757% in Gen IV, 15.619% in total.
Gen V: 156 new pokémon, 14 (8.974%) with no family, 13 (8.333%) legendary. 17.308% in Gen V, 16.026% in total.

16%? That's a lot, considering Rowan's talk. I blame the legendaries.

FUCK THEM

Gen I: 146 new pokémon, 7 (4.795%) with no family. 4.795% in total.
Gen II: 94 new pokémon, 12 (12.766%) with no family. 7.917% in total.
Gen III: 125 new pokémon, 18 (14.4%) with no family. 10.137% in total.
Gen IV: 93 new pokémon, 5 (5.376%) with no family. 9.17% in total.
Gen V: 143 new pokémon, 14 (9.79%) with no family. 9.318% in total.

...Ok fuck this. I shouldn't blame the legendaries.

So, let's say Gen VI will have 128 new pokémon (just so the last one will be #777, derp), 12 of them legendaries. If they want to FINALLY fix the 10% number, then we'll either have 77 no-family pokémon (10% of 777, counting legendaries), or 71 (10% of 717, no legendaries). In the former, we already have 104; in the latter... 56. Hm. So, considering we're expecting 12 legendaries, we'd be getting 15 new evos in the former... and lol -15 evos in the latter, that is, 15 new standalone pokémon and ZERO new evos.



I don't know about you, but I follow the school of thought that teaches Rowan was counting the legendaries on his studies.




And Jesus, I got outsped TWICE. And not even on this page.

[labarith]

Originally Posted by Fat inanimate blob

Geez, unless they upgraded the chance of catching Pokèrus, people without Wi-Fi would have a lot of problems.

Eh, it'd be different forms of the same pokemon... think trash coat/etc. But yeah, it'd be pretty annoying to try and catch 'em all.

Speaking of which, they need some kind of unown-boosting item. Perhaps an item that gives it +50% to each stat?

Alternatively, maybe they do moves that feature Unowns in your team. For example:

Unown Burst - 250 base stat attack based on the HP of an unown in your team, KOs that unown?

[Basileus]

Originally Posted by Fat TheMrBassdude

Actually, I really, really like that idea. It would make the new Pickup vs Rapid Spin an actual debate, trying to figure out whether or not it's worth crippling this Pokemon, in exchange for not needing a turn to Spin

Pokemon with pickup have generally crap stats, I really don't think pickup would make ambipom viable in UU because blastoise is such a wall and much better. Meanwhile linoone's defense is even worse and something as fast as linoone shouldn't really be used as support...

However, it does solve the problem with hitting ghosts with rapid spin not working...

[Archen]

I'm making a bold guess by saying but these are my prediction on the new starters final evolution type

Chespin Grass/Ground Reasoning Chespin's a Groundhog

Fennekin Fire/Normel Reasoning Fennekin is a fennic fox which some people keep as pets

Froakie Water/Steel Reasoning Froakie is band conductor frog so he will probably be associated with music and instruments are metallic do you get my reasining

[TheKAM1993]

Chespin is not a groundhog, its names show that it is based on a hedgehog.

[Archen]

Sorry i didn't know that i just assumed because of its looks

[shockwave527]

Originally Posted by Fat Archen

I'm making a bold guess by saying but these are my prediction on the new starters final evolution type

Chespin Grass/Ground Reasoning Chespin's a Groundhog
As someone said, not a groundhog. This is possible, but I'd say very unlikely.

Fennekin Fire/Normal Reasoning Fennekin is a fennic fox which some people keep as pets
I'd say: never going to happen. Normal is a VERY rare secondary type to have, so if it's something like what you're saying they wouldn't add normal, they'd just keep it pure fire. I doubt they'll ever make a starter with a NORMAL evolution
Plus, many have guessed this to be a ground type (those who aren't riding the psy/dark/fight train, that is) as the fennec fox is a desert-based animal.

Froakie Water/Steel Reasoning Froakie is band conductor frog so he will probably be associated with music and instruments are metallic do you get my reasoning
Again, no. I try not to get annoyed at people who aren't being total idiots (and you are DEFINATELY not), but can I ask you, alongside all people, to PLEASE stop doing this?

That is, stop posting your speculation as if it is fact.
"FROAKIE IS A BAND CONDUCTOR FROG"
When was that stated? Did nintendo have a direct overnight I missed?
Just because he has bubbles on his face does not make him a band conductor.
Now, many have assumed him (and I say assumed) to end up wise or have the bubbles become a beard or look intelligent, which seems logical. And stating he looks like a band conductor is ok. But stating that he IS a band conductor is totally different, as is basing your thoughts on his type on this nonsense.

My comments above in red

One thing I don't get:
Why does everyone think this type triangle is going to be Dual-dual-dual? I get the reverse type triangle idea (though I'm still skeptical), but I see this in pretty much EVERY guess for their types! Gamefreak has made ONE game out of five have every starter get a secondary type, and that generation was pretty recent. So can somebody please explain to me why everyone wants to add a secondary type to everything? Some things are allowed to stay monotype, people!

[Apologies for the rant. I get a bit heated on these two things; that is, people stating thoughts as fact and all the d-d-d type speculation]

[the mystery duck]

Originally Posted by Fat reaverz

Wonder Guard: Same effect; also negates all indirect damage just like Magic Guard.

I think it would be better if they extended the avoiding all non-SE attacks to non-attacking moves (that are not self-targeting). This would make moves like toxic and leech seed be avoided by Shedinja while WoW and SR damage are still able to connect.

[keleyeemoh]

Originally Posted by Fat inanimate blob

Geez, unless they upgraded the chance of catching Pokèrus, people without Wi-Fi would have a lot of problems.

I know I'm very much in the minority here, but I've had Pokérus twice and have NEVER encountered a shiny (except for Gyarados in Gold/SoulSilver and Dratini in White 2, obviously). No real point to this post, just venting.

[reaverz]

Originally Posted by Fat the mystery duck

I think it would be better if they extended the avoiding all non-SE attacks to non-attacking moves (that are not self-targeting). This would make moves like toxic and leech seed be avoided by Shedinja while WoW and SR damage are still able to connect.

That sounds great, actually. It makes sense too, because Will-O-Wisp activates Flash Fire and Stealth Rock of course does type damage. Stealth Rock vulnerability alone would ensure that Sheddy would not be broken even with the proposed Wonder Guard buff. The player using it would be forced to carry at least one Rapid Spinner, more likely two...

[Yveltal]

MY PRAYERS HAVE BEEN ANSWERED! SOMEBODY CREATED A DRAGON-HORSE FINALKIN!!!

ALL GLORY TO CHIMERAKIN!!!!!
(But Yveltal, there are two different versions of what the artist thinks the final form of Fennekin could be like! Can't we take time to appreciate that their idea of a fire/fighting doesn't look like Renamon?)
three words:
mother
fucking
DRAGONHORSE.

[reaverz]

The thing about Fire/Dragon, though, is that it forces Froakie to evolve into part Ground, Rock, or Dragon in order to retain the starter triangle. Water/Ground and Water/Rock are believable enough, I guess, but Water/Dragon would likely force Chespin to evolve into a Grass/Dragon Pokemon as well...

I'm pretty opposed to having the Dragon type on any of the starters, really. It just forces the other starters' types to revolve around the starter that's part Dragon since it interferes with the starter types.

[Count Serperior]

I wouldn't be surprised if Chespin turns out Grass/Normal like Sawsbuck.
He's part rodent and they're usually Normal types.

Although I'm really hoping for something cooler or more useful.
He could even be Grass/Poison, sue to the spikes. ("thorns" since he's part plant?)

[TM13IceBeam]

Originally Posted by Fat Mario With Lasers

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wi..._do_not_evolve

Oh, I love Bulbapedia.

Gen I: 151 new pokémon, 7 (4.636%) with no family, 5 (3.311%) legendary. 7.947% in Gen I, 7.947% in total.
Gen II: 100 new pokémon, 12 (12%) with no family, 6 (6%) legendary. 18% in Gen II, 11.952% in total.
Gen III: 135 new pokémon, 18 (13.333%) with no family, 10 (7.407%) legendary. 20.74% in Gen III, 15.025% in total.
Gen IV: 107 new pokémon, 5 (4.673%) with no family, 14 (13.084%) legendary. 17.757% in Gen IV, 15.619% in total.
Gen V: 156 new pokémon, 14 (8.974%) with no family, 13 (8.333%) legendary. 17.308% in Gen V, 16.026% in total.

16%? That's a lot, considering Rowan's talk. I blame the legendaries.

FUCK THEM

Gen I: 146 new pokémon, 7 (4.795%) with no family. 4.795% in total.
Gen II: 94 new pokémon, 12 (12.766%) with no family. 7.917% in total.
Gen III: 125 new pokémon, 18 (14.4%) with no family. 10.137% in total.
Gen IV: 93 new pokémon, 5 (5.376%) with no family. 9.17% in total.
Gen V: 143 new pokémon, 14 (9.79%) with no family. 9.318% in total.

...Ok fuck this. I shouldn't blame the legendaries.

So, let's say Gen VI will have 128 new pokémon (just so the last one will be #777, derp), 12 of them legendaries. If they want to FINALLY fix the 10% number, then we'll either have 77 no-family pokémon (10% of 777, counting legendaries), or 71 (10% of 717, no legendaries). In the former, we already have 104; in the latter... 56. Hm. So, considering we're expecting 12 legendaries, we'd be getting 15 new evos in the former... and lol -15 evos in the latter, that is, 15 new standalone pokémon and ZERO new evos.



I don't know about you, but I follow the school of thought that teaches Rowan was counting the legendaries on his studies.




And Jesus, I got outsped TWICE. And not even on this page.

i'd be inclined to say that Rowan isn't really that off, since he was giving a rough estimate of 90%, and 9.32% without legends isn't that far off from 10.

[Mario With Lasers]

Originally Posted by Fat Mario With Lasers

So, let's say Gen VI will have 128 new pokémon (just so the last one will be #777, derp), 12 of them legendaries. If they want to FINALLY fix the 10% number, then we'll either have 77 no-family pokémon (10% of 777, counting legendaries), or 71 (10% of 717, no legendaries). In the former, we already have 104; in the latter... 56. Hm. So, considering we're expecting 12 legendaries, we'd be getting 15 new evos in the former... and lol -15 evos in the latter, that is, 15 new standalone pokémon and ZERO new evos.

I suck 200%. If, in the first scenario, we already have 104 standalones and want to get to 77, then the legendaries add up to 116, instead of decreasing it to 92. This means that we'd need at least 39 new evolutions instead of 15. That is, of course, if they add 0 new standalones besides the legendaries. Obviously, that won't happen.

But we'll not be getting a perfect 10% number in Gen VI either; we've never had that number anyway, why would we now? I could see them decreasing it to 13% at best, which would give us a net gain of ~15 evolutons. Much more believable, in my opinion.

What's most likely, however (besides Rowan being WRONG...) is that they'll follow the rough 9% count we have without legendaries; if they want to keep that number, then... we'd need a net gain of ~10 new evos. I don't *like* that number because this is an even Generation and we know they love to evolve old pokémon in those, so I'd bet on the ~15 evos calcs... but I'd be fine with only 10. As long as they evolve the right pokémon (BANETTE) and such.

[feriokun]

Originally Posted by Fat Zowayix

On another note, I wonder what it would be like if Shedinja had 5 HP like in the Mystery Dungeon games.

Almost all SE attacks and stuff like confusion would still KO Shedinja in one hit, but now it can survive stuff like Sandstorm, Hail, Toxic, Spikes, and Stealth Rock for 4 turns.

It would be a nice middle ground between what it is now and the Magic Guard proposal, but unfortunately the potential's stuck in a spin-off game.

Completely agree with this!

[Flareon]

Originally Posted by Fat Mario With Lasers

I suck 200%. If, in the first scenario, we already have 104 standalones and want to get to 77, then the legendaries add up to 116, instead of decreasing it to 92. This means that we'd need at least 39 new evolutions instead of 15. That is, of course, if they add 0 new standalones besides the legendaries. Obviously, that won't happen.

But we'll not be getting a perfect 10% number in Gen VI either; we've never had that number anyway, why would we now? I could see them decreasing it to 13% at best, which would give us a net gain of ~15 evolutons. Much more believable, in my opinion.

What's most likely, however (besides Rowan being WRONG...) is that they'll follow the rough 9% count we have without legendaries; if they want to keep that number, then... we'd need a net gain of ~10 new evos. I don't *like* that number because this is an even Generation and we know they love to evolve old pokémon in those, so I'd bet on the ~15 evos calcs... but I'd be fine with only 10. As long as they evolve the right pokémon (BANETTE) and such.

I don't think 2 generations is enough of a pattern to go off of. It might just be a coincidence or wishful thinking that Gen2 and Gen4 added Evos/Prevos. Gen3 added 2 Prevos, keep in mind.

I'm not saying you're wrong (in fact, I'd like for you to be right), but I think that there's not enough evidence to make a claim such as "every even generation will add new evolutions". But that's just my opinion, so take that as you will.

[Lorenz]

I want to preface by saying I only play on GBU, I don't do Smogon standard at all. Therefore my wishlist concerning Gen 6 is as follows:

-Nerf auto-weather. I've mentioned it before plenty of times but this NEEDS to happen. Just make auto-weather a standard five turn cast (or eight if you have the appropriate stone) and it'd be fine.

-Buff Hail. Hail does nothing but chip damage and make Blizzard 100% accurate. Even sandstorm increases Rock type SpDef. And it's not like giving Hail some sort of similar boost would make it game breaking, hell it's probably still be the worst weather even with that sort of boost.

-Pick Up/Rapid Spin tweaks. I like the idea I saw where Pick Up will auto remove entry hazards at the expense of HP. I wanna take it a step further and recommend that Rapid Spin should get a damage multiplier the more layers of entry hazards it removes. A way to punish the opponent for using Stealth Rocks and the like.

-Sleep tweaks. Making sleep last a max of three turns was a step in the right directions. I still think it's unnecessarily broken though. Certain mons can do a 100 Acc sleep move and abuse that time significantly. My recommendation would be to make sleep dispelled if you take damage. To me it makes perfect sense that way. Your mon took damage so was hurt, why wouldn't that wake it up? It'd also change the way we use entry hazards if your plan is to throw those out then abuse sleep as you just have to switch in, take the damage, and wake up.

-Evasion tweaks. Evasion is ridiculous. And the ability to abuse it is the one thing I despise about GBU. Idiots spamming Double Team/Minimize has caused more losses to inferior players than any other hax in the game. I'm all for hax, its adds a welcome random element and allows for a possible comeback. Causes upsets sure, but I believe a strategy game like Pokemon benefits from a little random element thrown in there. Evasion isn't a random element. It's a tool to say "you have to have one of four attacks that serve no purpose in the game other than to hit me and my evasion boosts". Evasion is the sole reason I have Aerial Ace on Scizor. You already can't prepare one team for everything in the game and evasion makes it much worse. I'd be fine if moves like Double Team were removed from the game entirely but as that wouldn't happen I'd suggest that the evasion boost is significantly reduced. That or you can only boost evasion +2 instead of +6 like any other stat. Sick of beating two mons on a team and having my three at perfect health only to lose because someone spammed evasion boosts and I couldn't hit the bastard.

-"Weather Stones" for Trick Room, Gravity, etc. I'd really like to see this happen. I feel one of the big reasons you never see these moves used is because they don't last too long, even in GBU settings. I'm thinking maybe if they had a form of duration extension those moves would be more viable.