Pokémon X and Y Discussion

[TheMrBassdude]

Originally Posted by Fat shockwave527

If it is close combat (which I, too, doubt), it may not actually get it and they may just be showing off that move.

Yeah. I considered that right after I posted it haha. But, why show off a random move in the trailer, without telling us what it was? Doesn't seem like much of a point there, to me

[PokemonXY]

Originally Posted by Fat shockwave527

If it is close combat (which I, too, doubt), it may not actually get it and they may just be showing off that move.

I think Froakie uses Acrobatics

[shockwave527]

Originally Posted by Fat TheMrBassdude

Yeah. I considered that right after I posted it haha. But, why show off a random move in the trailer, without telling us what it was? Doesn't seem like much of a point there, to me

To show off how cool the new graphics look and a more varied set of moves, probably. I'm pretty sure they've done that in past trailers. People like seeing the battles and what they've done with them, and, if froakie DOES become a fighting type (not jumping on that train yet, though), maybe he gets that later on or in a higher form and they wanted to show it here.

It makes sense from a marketing standpoint.

Originally Posted by Fat PokemonXY

I think Froakie uses Acrobatics

Looks like it could work, but I'd find that more unlikely than close combat.

Although, who knows? The bubbles could end up as flying mechanisms.

Although, as I said earlier, I don't think ghost and dragon will ever be secondary starter types, and the same for me goes for flying. Yes, there's charizard, but they were still testing things out there and it was the first game.


But we'll just have to wait and see.

[labarith]

Originally Posted by Fat Lorenz

@Labarith: Only decent thing that gets Unaware is Quagsire. It goes back to having to carry something to handle only one problem in the game. And it's not like I'm running into evasion boosters every game. It's not too often, it's just when I do I'm losing because I can't hit the thing not because I'm being outsmarted.

Unaware should be farmed out. A 2nd Hidden Ability would allow this.

But, again, I'd be more interested in advanced accuracy moves; things that cancel evasion changes, things that have over 100% accuracy, or just more things guaranteed to hit.

Quite honestly, I've got Imposter Ditto on my team, so if I feel like wasting 45 minutes on a single online 3 vs 3 battle (and quite frankly, since my connection is shakey as it is, I'm justified in force-disconnecting on such jerks) I can usually pull off a surprise win if I get rid of their substitute.

That said, if conceeding after you've lost 2 pokemon still gave you a BP, I think I'd stick it out more often, then concede if I couldn't win.

Originally Posted by Fat Lorenz

And auto-weather being too good to nerf? Then why do I constantly see the forums popping off with ban auto-weather? GBU and Smogon standard may not follow all the same rules but tons of the strategies are still the same, just tweaked for smaller team size/doubles/triples. Auto-weather is ridiculous, it needs to be limited.

People who don't play weather don't like weather because they have to deal with it. It's like me and trick room - I don't like Trickroom, but I'm not so much of an idiot as to say it should be banned. TR and weather teams share a lot in common - both need to setup (Drizzletoad does is easier, but it's still setup cost since you weren't playing Politoed before it got dwizzle); the difference is that swift swim is pretty well distributed, meaning that after the politoed gets down, they've got a sweeper.

Theoretically an electric priority move or a dragon priority move (against kingdra) might do more to react to auto-weather teams than nerfing them.

I mostly play online wifi battles; so I imagine the problem is worse in 6 on 6... but that's just because people are even more reluctant to run weather-disruption. Quite frankly, though, it's easy to throw the relevant weather setup on a water or fire or ground guy and use it as a quasi-boosting move AND a distruption move.

Then again a decent Cloud Nine user might do enough to answer the problem too... the problem is that cloud nine does nothing to boost Swablu in battles, but surf hits harder and solar beam (if you're nuts) go off faster for their respective weathers (sun also weakens water for an additional mock-resistance).

I tell you what'd probably help people out - "Weather Beams":

Sun Beam - 5pp - 60 damage, sets up sun. If sun's up, then double damage. Sets the weather up for next turn only???
x 4... or 5 (if double w/ no weather... yikes!)

You'd run that on a fire guy, right? You'd run that over Fire Blast on Garchomp, right? (Since you're pretty much only aiming at Sturdy users anyway...).

While you might not be able to find space on 2 pokemon for Sunny day or rain dance to distrupt strategies; surely you can find room for a move like this that is a weak damage dealer, useable for coverage, AND for weather disruption...

Also... on another topic... I think they need to make a conscious effort to distinguish which pokemon get "similar" abilities, and which get wildly different. For example, I was playing triples today and I wasn't sure if the opponent's dragonite had inner focus or multiscale. I assumed the latter, fake out + dragon meteor on it... and it survived... AND DRAGON DANCED! While I'm okay with that kind of rare ambiguity for Dragonite, it gets really bad when we're dealing with asking whether a certain bell is levitating or heatproofing. (Can I not tell that it's levetating by looking at it? I guess not!). Still, while some pokemon should be able to make you ask "Is he running x or y?", others really shouldn't be able to bluff two radically different sets just because I can't be sure which is which. If we added a 4th hidden ability, it only makes this more important: Ideally the new hidden ability shouldn't obsolete older pokemon... unless those pokemon are unplayable, and the new ability is a means to make it slightly more playable.

[Pokesal]

Starter types:

Fennekin: Fire/Psychic
Froakie: Water/Electric
Chespin: Grass/Dark

[manav95]

Gen 6 already, holy crap. I'm feeling really old now, its been so long since we got gen 5. 2 years really.

[Backwater Rifle]

Call me crazy, but after reading all of the type debates on the new cover legendaries, I have an unshakable hunch that we may be staring at two ghost type legendaries, because ghost is weak to itself iirc. and would give them equal footing with each other, while still allowing for another type, aside from normal, dark, and steel. And while everyone is associating the rainbow pattern on the deer legendary with light, I could see it still working with the ghost type, along with the birds dark appearance. But truly, this may be the hardest generation to judge the legendary types, aside from the curve-ball that was Lugia. (Flying/Psychic)

[shockwave527]

Originally Posted by Fat Backwater Rifle

Call me crazy, but after reading all of the type debates on the new cover legendaries, I have an unshakable hunch that we may be staring at two ghost type legendaries, because ghost is weak to itself iirc. and would give them equal footing with each other, while still allowing for another type, aside from normal, dark, and steel. And while everyone is associating the rainbow pattern on the deer legendary with light, I could see it still working with the ghost type, along with the birds dark appearance. But truly, this may be the hardest generation to judge the legendary types, aside from the curve-ball that was Lugia. (Flying/Psychic)

Well, you have to admit, before we could see the fire and electricity, kyurem and zekrom (aside from being dragon) were pretty hard.

Now, I find it hard to see these as ghost. I get what you're saying, but I still find that hard to see.

What I WOULD like to see is a Ghost legendary trio. Like the fighting musketeers of the last gen, I think a Ghost trio would be awesome. That or a main legendary trio (in some future gen) where the three legends are not flying or dragon but ghost.

Main point: Ghost legend trio. Make it happen, GF.

[Jolteon Bandit]

Speaking of types, these are a couple unused combos that I'd like to see on defensive or bulky pokemon. Normal/Ghost is a really interesting type because it gets 3 type immunities in Ghost, Normal, and Fighting and would only be weak to Dark, a pretty powerful combination. Psychic/Dark is another good typing that is only weak to Bug type (albeit, 4x weak). Just a couple cool combos. I don't really have much hope for a Normal/Ghost type (they seem too different to me), but Psychic/Dark seems very feasible and, given to the right pokemon, could be a very good wall in the metagame.

[IcyMan28]

Originally Posted by Fat TheMrBassdude

Honestly, the concept of the mono-Water stage 1 starter getting Close Combat seems like the most ridiculous thing I've read on this thread so far, including the 50 pages of Light-type debate. I'd sooner expect this generation to give us third-stage Eeveelutions (except, of course, for Flareon)

Is it really? You're aware that, for example, Totodile learns Superpower and Tepig learns Head Smash? Don't shoot things down just for the sake of shooting it down.

As an aside, I'd really like to see more types in conjunction with the Electric-type. With the exception of the Rotom family, which showcased a gimmick, almost all of the electric types are pure.

Electric/Fighting I think would be a cool type, or an Electric/Dark type based on bioluminescence. They could have done the latter with Huntail (and they kind of tried with Lanturn), but made them water-types instead.

[shockwave527]

Originally Posted by Fat Jolteon Bandit

Speaking of types, these are a couple unused combos that I'd like to see on defensive or bulky pokemon. Normal/Ghost is a really interesting type because it gets 3 type immunities in Ghost, Normal, and Fighting and would only be weak to Dark, a pretty powerful combination. Psychic/Dark is another good typing that is only weak to Bug type (albeit, 4x weak). Just a couple cool combos. I don't really have much hope for a Normal/Ghost type (they seem too different to me), but Psychic/Dark seems very feasible and, given to the right pokemon, could be a very good wall in the metagame.

Too different? Remember, we've had Ground/Electric.

I could see an awesome psychic/dark pokemon, maybe a floating evil head with a top hat with a question mark on it (I have so many designs for pokemon but can't draw at all, so just imagine), and floating hands next to it. Maybe levitate. Call it Miztoree.

A type combo I'd really like to see? Poison/Steel
Give trubbish metal coat. Evolve. Trashcan pokemon.

[RinaNichole]

I honestly think that Chespin is going to look like a tree. People call it a tree obsession, but honestly. The name implies a chestnut, and it already has that shape.

I think that since Fennekin is a fennec fox based pokemon it will end up being Fire/Ground, since fennec foxes live in African deserts.

As for Froakie, I have no idea. I was thinking maybe Water/Ice, but.. it's hard to tell.

As for legendaries, I honestly think they will be dark/something. We haven't had a main legendary be dark yet. I know you're all thinking right toward Darkrai, but he wasn't a cover art legend, IE: Not main legendary. I'm guessing Yvetal is Dark/Flying, Xerneas Dark/Steel or Dark/Grass.

Anyway, these are just thoughts. I really don't know, like everyone else. It's just educated guesses.

[Jolteon Bandit]

Originally Posted by Fat IcyMan28

Is it really? You're aware that, for example, Totodile learns Superpower and Tepig learns Head Smash? Don't shoot things down just for the sake of shooting it down.

As an aside, I'd really like to see more types in conjunction with the Electric-type. With the exception of the Rotom family, which showcased a gimmick, almost all of the electric types are pure.

Electric/Fighting I think would be a cool type, or an Electric/Dark type based on bioluminescence. They could have done the latter with Huntail (and they kind of tried with Lanturn), but made them water-types instead.

You're first point is true, every pokemon has moves that don't get STAB and so the moves used in the trailer are not necessarily indicative of anything. What it comes down to is whether or not you think GF was trying to hint at secondary typings or not in the trailer. They do give us a lot of information and hints in the trailer. Eiffel Tower hints to Europe and mirror screenshot hints to customization to name a couple. Great business strategy to give us just enough to whet our appetites while keeping us on the edge of our seats until October.

Also, Luxray was the perfect pokemon to make Electric/Dark. Still upset this didn't happen, and that was 2 gens ago.

[Narutendo3]

Originally Posted by Fat RinaNichole

I honestly think that Chespin is going to look like a tree. People call it a tree obsession, but honestly. The name implies a chestnut, and it already has that shape.

It's true that the chestnut aspect of Chespin would be so random if the evos just ended up being based on hedgehogs alone. I agree they'll definitely build on the chestnut aspect with the evos, resulting in some kind of tree/hedgehog for the final stage.

[TheMrBassdude]

Originally Posted by Fat IcyMan28

Is it really? You're aware that, for example, Totodile learns Superpower and Tepig learns Head Smash? Don't shoot things down just for the sake of shooting it down.

As an aside, I'd really like to see more types in conjunction with the Electric-type. With the exception of the Rotom family, which showcased a gimmick, almost all of the electric types are pure.

Electric/Fighting I think would be a cool type, or an Electric/Dark type based on bioluminescence. They could have done the latter with Huntail (and they kind of tried with Lanturn), but made them water-types instead.

I knew about both of them, actually. Somehow, though, this seemed more ridiculous to me. I guess it's just because I've never bought in to Froakie evolving Water/Fighting, but yeah, to me it still seems pretty whack. Just my opinion

[RinaNichole]

If Froakie goes Water/Fighting, it's just a pawn off of Poliwrath. Both fighting froggies.

[blitzlefan]

Ugh... brain's dead right now... but who's Ground/Electric? I wanna see my first Fire/Fighting starter too. XD JK

[TheMrBassdude]

Originally Posted by Fat blitzlefan

Ugh... brain's dead right now... but who's Ground/Electric? I wanna see my first Fire/Fighting starter too. XD JK

Stunfisk. The greatest Pokemon ever. You can't paralyze him

[TheKAM1993]

Originally Posted by Fat blitzlefan

Ugh... brain's dead right now... but who's Ground/Electric? I wanna see my first Fire/Fighting starter too. XD JK

Stunfisk, a.k.a. the greatest pokemon ever.

[labarith]

Originally Posted by Fat Pokesal

Starter types:

Fennekin: Fire/Psychic
Froakie: Water/Electric
Chespin: Grass/Dark

You misspelled Fighting.

Originally Posted by Fat Backwater Rifle

Call me crazy, but after reading all of the type debates on the new cover legendaries, I have an unshakable hunch that we may be staring at two ghost type legendaries, because ghost is weak to itself iirc. and would give them equal footing with each other, while still allowing for another type, aside from normal, dark, and steel. And while everyone is associating the rainbow pattern on the deer legendary with light, I could see it still working with the ghost type, along with the birds dark appearance. But truly, this may be the hardest generation to judge the legendary types, aside from the curve-ball that was Lugia. (Flying/Psychic)

3 legendaries, X, Y, Z. So no.

[shockwave527]

Originally Posted by Fat labarith

3 legendaries, X, Y, Z. So no.

Hey, they've done three dragon legends before. Twice. Why not a trio of ghosts for once?

[HabibsHotDogs]

Fennekin to an electric fox as it produces static electricity.

Froakie to a water flying that doesn't actually "fly", similar to Gyarados

Chespin to a grass rock (ground), perhaps the one built like a tank this gen

There, we have a reverse super-effective relationship without the cliche and obvious dark/psychic/fighting. It sounds feasible as the it would not be impossible for the starters to evolve into such dual types and finally, knowing Gamefreak, the starters and the "clues" in the trailers are probably not clues at all.

You heard it here first :)

inb4 Fennekin's final evo can't hit Chespins super effectively!

[Infernis]

That's... not a reverse triangle. That's two Pokemon kicking the shit out of Froakie.

Fire/Electric -> 4x effective electric attacks against Water/Flying

Grass/Rock -> 2x effective rock attacks against Water/Flying

Meanwhile he'd hit Fennekin 2x with water, though fire and electric both tend to be faster than the stereotypical water type. He'd only deal neutral damage against Chespin.

[shockwave527]

Originally Posted by Fat HabibsHotDogs

Fennekin to an electric fox as it produces static electricity.

Froakie to a water flying that doesn't actually "fly", similar to Gyarados

Chespin to a grass rock (ground), perhaps the one built like a tank this gen

There, we have a reverse super-effective relationship without the cliche and obvious dark/psychic/fighting. It sounds feasible as the it would not be impossible for the starters to evolve into such dual types and finally, knowing Gamefreak, the starters and the "clues" in the trailers are probably not clues at all.

You heard it here first :)

inb4 Fennekin's final evo can't hit Chespins super effectively!

What...
Wha...
WTF are you even saying? Rock is the same as ground, and flying is super effective to ground...? HUH? I don't even...
Are you saying he'll be both rock and ground? Where did you even get this idea?

This makes NO sense at all.

[HabibsHotDogs]

no I mean it could be rock or ground.. ground makes more sense but rock is unique (as are the other two) for starters and allows it to hit water/flying