Pokémon X and Y Discussion

[Mario With Lasers]

Originally Posted by Fat R_N

The Gengar line isn't even really a ghost
they're poisonous balls of gas

while sableye is.......

...Weird. I could swear one of Gastly's Dex entries said it was "born dead" from deceased pokémon's spirits... but none of them do. You learn something new every day.

Originally Posted by Fat IcyMan28

Just look at Banette for the precedent. According to the dex , it is an abandoned marionette doll that actually came alive, despite being a ghost-types. Other exceptions are the animatronic Golett line with their ancient power, and the obvious Giratina. Ghost does not necessarily mean dead.

Well, fair enough. But still, adding a Ghost typing for pokémon not intrinsically ghost-like has only been done to Froslass and Shedinja (hasn't it), so I still perceive them as exceptions.

[Ingo]

Originally Posted by Fat Mario With Lasers

...Weird. I could swear one of Gastly's Dex entries said it was "born dead" from deceased pokémon's spirits... but none of them do. You learn something new every day.



Well, fair enough. But still, adding a Ghost typing for pokémon not intrinsically ghost-like has only been done to Froslass and Shedinja (hasn't it), so I still perceive them as exceptions.

Well, considering there's only 27 ghost types in total, the smallest of all types, I wouldn't be too sure.

[Narutendo3]

As was said, the ghost type refers to things that are haunted or possessed too. Shedinja is the shedded skin from a nincada evolving, which was then possessed by a new life force of some sort.
Froslass is at least based on a spirit, as was pointed out.
The Gengar family is said to have gaseous bodies, but they're still just ghosts like the Mismagius or Dusknoir families.

[Yveltal]

yes, thank you for...restating what we just posted instead of backing it up or providing an opinion...

Giratinas ghostliness reminds me of the ghosts and ghost world from Danny Phantom. He lives in a spooky twisted reality all his own, so his tangibility is a subjective matter. In tha manga, Gastlys evolutionary line did spawn from the rotting dead bodies of Pokemon that dies from pollution poisoning, which is supposedly where they get their part Poison-typing from.
I think that Ghost and Psychic make a better pair then psychic and dark. Ghost embodies themes of dark magic and voodoo to a lesser extent (Mismagius). Psychic has an array of techniques based on conventional magic like Trick, while also using energy-based magic techniques, like what with Psycho Cut.

[Narutendo3]

Originally Posted by Fat Yveltal

yes, thank you for...restating what we just posted instead of backing it up or providing an opinion...

I actually elaborated on it and added the part about the gengar line. Even still, I was only doing that because people were still referring to those pokemon as counter-examples for how ghost types work. Don't worry, you can hold off on being a dick for now.

[labarith]

There should be a special class of moves that double in damage if your speed is more than double that of the defending pokemon. They could easily be base 70 damage, which is respectable - especially w/ a STAB... but you could see faster pokemon using these to significantly quash slower pokemon.

One of the benefits of doing this would be that it would make "base 99" speed pokemon functionally faster than "base 50" speed pokemon in more battles. Against Ferrothorn, Starmie's "psychic rush" would do severe damage; but against garchomp... not so much.

It's also be nice to see moves that were competitive that concerned other stats. For example, I could easily imagine a move or two like this:

Relentless Pummeling [fighting] - hits twice. If an opponent has more than twice your HP, it hits 5 times instead. 25 damage x hit. Weak initially, but when you're low on HP, it hits stronger against most pokemon. However, if you're fighting Chansey/etc, it always hits 5 times...

Alternatively, you can do this:
Blindside - fighting - 60 damage. Physical. Deals twice as much damage if the opponnent's base HP is more than twice your base HP.

[TheMrBassdude]

Originally Posted by Fat Basileus

The coolest and most useful in MY opinion typing for the final stages of the starters:

Chespin; Dragon/grass
Probability: 0.5/10

Fenniken; Psychic/fire
Probaility: 5/10

Froakie; Water/steel
Probability: 1/10

I think I'd cry if Chespin got Grass/Dragon and Serperior was just Grass

[shockwave527]

On the eeveelution pokemon smash thing, update:

They've only done one or two in each past episode

They've done three so far, and there's still time

They may be going through them all again, and possibly have a new one at the end.

Fingers crossed!

[Basileus]

Originally Posted by Fat shockwave527

On the eeveelution pokemon smash thing, update:

They've only done one or two in each past episode

They've done three so far, and there's still time

They may be going through them all again, and possibly have a new one at the end.

Fingers crossed!

"T'is better to not expect much, and be pleasantly surprised, then to expect the most, and be disappointed."

~Some guy

[shockwave527]

Originally Posted by Fat shockwave527

On the eeveelution pokemon smash thing, update:

They've only done one or two in each past episode

They've done three so far, and there's still time

They may be going through them all again, and possibly have a new one at the end.

Fingers crossed!

Well, nothing new, BUT

In the preview for the next episode, they showed the rest of the Eeveelutions they haven't yet, and IMMEDIATLEY afterward the logos for X and Y alongside two other logos, one of which is the one related to the Eevees.

Next episode will focus on the upcoming movie.

My suspicion:
The next movie will have something to do with Eeveelutions, and one of the stars will be none other than the new eeveelution.

[Yveltal]

Originally Posted by Fat Narutendo3

I actually elaborated on it and added the part about the gengar line. Even still, I was only doing that because people were still referring to those pokemon as counter-examples for how ghost types work. Don't worry, you can hold off on being a dick for now.

Ahh, but you didn't. The bit about the Gastly evolutionary line was Marios thought that was already given a definitive answer by R N. As for anything still being used for any part of the thread, that conversation hasn't even gone on for a whole half a page, and your "elaboration" isn't doing any good. Helping either side of the topic of why Ghost types are what they are could be expanded upon by introducing Frillish and Drifloon to the conversation instead of blatantly repeating what was already covered.

Originally Posted by Fat shockwave527

Well, nothing new, BUT

In the preview for the next episode, they showed the rest of the Eeveelutions they haven't yet, and IMMEDIATLEY afterward the logos for X and Y alongside two other logos, one of which is the one related to the Eevees.

Next episode will focus on the upcoming movie.

My suspicion:
The next movie will have something to do with Eeveelutions, and one of the stars will be none other than the new eeveelution.

Shockwave, thank you for posting updates, as ZephyrSonic's complaining about audio issues made my ears bleed for the first two minutes of the live cast.

[R_N]

Originally Posted by Fat shockwave527

Well, nothing new, BUT

In the preview for the next episode, they showed the rest of the Eeveelutions they haven't yet, and IMMEDIATLEY afterward the logos for X and Y alongside two other logos, one of which is the one related to the Eevees.

Next episode will focus on the upcoming movie.

My suspicion:
The next movie will have something to do with Eeveelutions, and one of the stars will be none other than the new eeveelution.

The next movie has a short about the eeveelutions
note that just because the eeveelutions are the stars does not mean that the short will have a new eeveelution. It could just as easily star the new starters since they're small and cute

[shockwave527]

Originally Posted by Fat Yveltal

Shockwave, thank you for posting updates, as ZephyrSonic's complaining about audio issues made my ears bleed for the first two minutes of the live cast.

Welcome. I kind of find it annoying as well, but I ignore it more until we get to the actual later parts where things are announced.


For anyone who wants to see, here are some pics I took of the preview for next week that came directly after the preview of some eeveelutions shown next week:




The top two logos are obvious, and the bottom right is the logo for the Eeveelutions. Not sure about the one on the bottom left, though. Logo for the new movie or something?

I think they also may have mentioned something about new XY stuff next week (according to a commenter), but it could have been this. Take away from it what you will.

Edit: Thanks to Yveltal, I now know that that bottom right logo is, in fact, the logo for the new Genesect movie.
(EDIT: I will not be able to do this next week, but hopefully when I return from my weekend trip away from the internet, there will be new news.)

[Yveltal]

That crazy one with the hexagons is the current logo for the Genesect movie. It's believed that anything Pokemon Smash! has to say, CoroCoro will leak first. At least, WPM believes so. It's sound logic, since the magazine is likely to leak by Friday.

[Cobraroll]

Originally Posted by Fat labarith

There should be a special class of moves that double in damage if your speed is more than double that of the defending pokemon.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Electro_Ball

May I also throw in some "drunk-from-sleepyness-it's-1-am" theorymonning? Beware of bad English:

Every generation so far has given us roughly the same Pokémon selection at the start of the game. The obvious starters, but also a normal type rodent with a two-stage evolution (Rattata, Sentret, Zigzagoon, Bidoof, Patrat), a normal/flying bird (Pidgey, Hoothoot, Taillow, Starly, Pidove) a couple of fast-evolving (but generally mediocre) bugs (Caterpie/Weedle, Ledyba/Spinarak, Wurmple (Beautifly/Dustox), Kricketot, Sewaddle/Venipede) as well as a more "special" critter that's a tad more powerful/exotic and useful for longer (Pikachu/Mankey, Gastly, Ralts, Shinx, Lillipup). Granted, the last point is the least consistent one, but generally, we get a bug or two, a bird and a rodent at the very start. Not long after, plant-based critters start to appear. From there on the patterns thin out and each generation has its own spin on things.

I think we can look forward to roughly the same in XY as well. Which begs the question: What might GameFreak have in store for us regarding these early-game 'mons?

I hope we get a squirrel for the rodent this time. Squirrels are adorable and long overdue. Granted, GameFreak might go for a three-in-a-row and hijack the squirrel design to feature as the Pikachu expy again, which means we're probably in for another chipmunk or rat. As for bugs, they've done butterflies, bees, ladybugs, spiders, moths, more butterflies, krickets and monster caterpillars, so perhaps we'll see a beetle of sorts. Apart from Heracross and Pinsir, we haven't had that many beetles. I'll also forgive GameFreak if they let the bird be an owl again, after all owls are cool and pidgeons have already been done twice. Pygmy owls, for instance, make great bases for Pokémon designs. They are also adorable, which is always a plus for marketing reasons.
That early-game "joker" that sticks with you for some time (a la Shinx or Mareep) could be a fire type for once. Unlike the docile Water and Grass types, Fire types generally are a tad more offensive than average, have great advantages against early bugs and Grass types, and they are hard to fit design-wise into many environments, so GameFreak usually restrict them to mid-game, way after you've encountered your first non-starter Water and Grass types. BW2 gave us early Growlithe, so there is hope that we could get a cute little fire-spewing critter of doom before we get our first badge.

*falls asleep over keyboard. Decides to post whatever I've written anyway. It looked like it made sense when I wrote it*

[labarith]

Similar to Electroball, but more competitive. 70 > 60 and all that. But if you think Electroball's competitive enough, fine.

As for early game 'mons, I think we should hope for cool elemental-birds and earlier grass types; meaning that the starter trio is reinforced, rather than generally ignored early game.

Alternatively, we could get a "season" themed set of early pokemon - ice in winter, water in spring, fire in summer, and plant in fall?

Other than that, I think more Bidoof-style pokemon, Normal -> Normal/X would allow for the same early-game experiences with some elemental bonuses/competitiveness late game.

[Narutendo3]

Originally Posted by Fat Yveltal

Ahh, but you didn't. The bit about the Gastly evolutionary line was Marios thought that was already given a definitive answer by R N. As for anything still being used for any part of the thread, that conversation hasn't even gone on for a whole half a page, and your "elaboration" isn't doing any good. Helping either side of the topic of why Ghost types are what they are could be expanded upon by introducing Frillish and Drifloon to the conversation instead of blatantly repeating what was already covered.

R N was the first to mention the gengar line, saying that they were irrelevant to ghosts, and simply made of gas. Mario responded by saying he thought he remembered something about them being born dead, but conceded he thought he was wrong. He then went on to say froslass and shedinja are not ghost-like. Nobody had cleared things up after that, so I went ahead and did that. I was the first to mention shedinja is the shedded skin of nincada, likely possessed by a seperate spirit, and that the gengar line is just made up of generic ghosts that happen to be gaseous. Besides, is there anything wrong with reiteration to show agreement?
Now then, I guess frillish is an example of a ghost type that is only ghost type because it is a bit spooky and wispy in a way. However, it and jellicent are said to absorb life energy in their entries. And here is a quote from the diamond entry for drifloon: "A Pokémon formed by the spirits of people and Pokémon"

[Ingo]

I have something I'm wondering if anyone's though of.
In multiple gens (2,5 and 1 to some extent) there's been a character who was seen before (Not from the same game neccesarily) who ends up in the elite four/Champion. Red/Green had Green (To some limited extents). Gold/Silver had Lance/Koga (Bruno being a recurrent memeber) and the Black/White saga had Caitlin/Iris (Not going to count bw2's reccuring elite 4). With this said, I'm not sure who could be in for gen 6. I'd personally like to see version exclusive Ingo/Emmet as part of the elite four, with their room being full of scale models of trains (Or like the maglevs in France).

[Infernis]

I actually like bug types, for the most part, so it'd be neat if they would add some better ones. (Asides from Volcarona.) Surskit had a neat typing, so it'd be neat if we got a better water strider alternate evolution or suspiciously similar Pokemon. A decent Bug/Flying Pokemon would be a nice change. Some sort of evil horsefly with a Dark/Bug typing would be neat. (I think Venonat is the closest we've come to an actual fly, and it's a wingless ball of fur named after a gnat.)

[Yveltal]

Originally Posted by Fat Narutendo3

R N was the first to mention the gengar line, saying that they were irrelevant to ghosts, and simply made of gas. Mario responded by saying he thought he remembered something about them being born dead, but conceded he thought he was wrong. He then went on to say froslass and shedinja are not ghost-like. Nobody had cleared things up after that, so I went ahead and did that. I was the first to mention shedinja is the possessed, shedded skin of nincada and that the gengar line is simply made up of gaseous ghosts. Besides, is there anything wrong with reiteration to show agreement?
Now then. I guess frillish is an example of a ghost type that is only ghost type because it is a bit spooky and wispy in a way. However here is a quote from the diamond entry for drifloon: "A Pokémon formed by the spirits of people and Pokémon"

-Gastly is a ball of gas, but only because it's a ghost who's based on a decapitated head monster. Ghosts are traditionally clouded in smoke or some sort of fog, so Gastly plays to that cinematic effect.
-Shedinja isn't possesed, it's a Hollow. It forms its own life force when the availability and timing of evolution are lined up. While you are the first to post the exact words "shedinja is possessed", R N already cracked a joke and offered a follow up thought to Marios concerns about Shedinja. But that much isn't quite as important.
-Frillish is based in part on a demon jellyfish and, like Gastly, was made into a part Ghost type for being inspired by another monster. So of course it's going to be spooky. That's not one of those cases where they say "hey, jellyfish are kinda weird and creepy. let's make one into a Ghost-type and play up the spooky factor"
-I only brought up Drifloon because it was feeling left out. Even though there are child-abducting and soul-stealing spirits of legend, none of them have a very strong connection to Drifloon. He's sort of a Game Freak original, in terms of authenticity. This is one of those cases where they probably said "Did you guys ever watch Billy's Balloon? Let's turn that homocidal balloon into a pokemon! I think the Ghost-type best matches the theme we want..."
Repetition is tedious, and shouldn't be a regular part of a thread. It sounded more or less like you wanted to wrap up the topic by posting what you could easily agree with without thinking about it. The moderators put up a warning notice on the front page asking people from refraining from posting when they have nothing to contribute. Most people who would refer to the front page to see if it's been updated would try to follow it, I think.

[PME]

I guess frillish is an example of a ghost type that is only ghost type because it is a bit spooky and wispy in a way.

I agree with Narutendo3, the Ghost types don't have to be dead to be Ghost types. I had said in my post before that I believed Fennekin would be part Ghost because the second move could possibly have been Astonish or even a new Ghost move. What I failed to add was that I also had another reason for believing this: Fennekin could evolve into a Youkai Fox Spirit. But seeing as Ghost is more end-game type and would essentially make Fennekin "dead", I can safely give up my hopes on it being that type, but those GF curveballs... no, probably not. This conversation has been going in a different direction and I'm liking the new theories, so I don't want to go back to talking about the starters please.

Every generation so far has given us roughly the same Pokémon selection at the start of the game.

Cobraroll has a solid point we all know about, especially us that have been there since RBY (and no, I'm not a genwunner). I'd likely believe that GF would tell us about any of those pokes before any evos for the starters. But what I really think they might do by next month's corocoro is that they might give us a handful of mons that are scattered around the early/mid game areas, like Darmanitan got showed from last gen.

Now, the eeveelutions theory, I wouldn't put it past GF at all, considering the good possibility that XY might be, in fact, referring to genes, and, hey, Eevee is based on evolution and, to some extent, genetics.

(I'm new on posting in forums, I couldn't figure out how to get your names in there, sorry)

[Lugiatina]

I've been seeing that people say Gastly is just a ball of gas.
I just wanted to post this for an alternate view by some people, seeing as Gengar kinda looks like a huge cat or bat.

...

---

[Narutendo3]

Originally Posted by Fat Yveltal

-Gastly is a ball of gas, but only because it's a ghost who's based on a decapitated head monster. Ghosts are traditionally clouded in smoke or some sort of fog, so Gastly plays to that cinematic effect.
-Shedinja isn't possesed, it's a Hollow. It forms its own life force when the availability and timing of evolution are lined up. While you are the first to post the exact words "shedinja is possessed", R N already cracked a joke and offered a follow up thought to Marios concerns about Shedinja. But that much isn't quite as important.
-Frillish is based in part on a demon jellyfish and, like Gastly, was made into a part Ghost type for being inspired by another monster. So of course it's going to be spooky. That's not one of those cases where they say "hey, jellyfish are kinda weird and creepy. let's make one into a Ghost-type and play up the spooky factor"
-I only brought up Drifloon because it was feeling left out. Even though there are child-abducting and soul-stealing spirits of legend, none of them have a very strong connection to Drifloon. He's sort of a Game Freak original, in terms of authenticity. This is one of those cases where they probably said "Did you guys ever watch Billy's Balloon? Let's turn that homocidal balloon into a pokemon! I think the Ghost-type best matches the theme we want..."
Repetition is tedious, and shouldn't be a regular part of a thread. It sounded more or less like you wanted to wrap up the topic by posting what you could easily agree with without thinking about it. The moderators put up a warning notice on the front page asking people from refraining from posting when they have nothing to contribute. Most people who would refer to the front page to see if it's been updated would try to follow it, I think.

I had read the first page, and my post did reflect new thoughts that I was contributing.
Regardless of if Shedinja's spirit just spawned or not, the point was that it's seperate from the Ninjask's spirit. I made that point because of R N's joke.
So this monster that Frillish is based on, is it a spirit or possessed in any way? Because I wouldn't think being based on a monster is enough reason alone for it to be ghost type.

[Zabel Zarock]

The biggest question in all this is...


...Can a Shedinja can feel love? ;A;

[Mon]

Its the tenth, but CoroCoro hasn't leaked yet!!! #firstworldproblems
I agree with the person (sorry) who suggested having a fire type as the "special" earlymon, It always annoyed me that it would take so long to get a fire type; one of my favourite things about crystal was that they moved the spot were you could find growlithe to the other side of the sudowoodo. Didn't help against Whitney though );
The problem is getting it right thematically :/