|Feb 4th, 2013, 6:29:05 PM||#1|
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Where all tasks have been cleared
Hell's Paradise [Final OU RMT]
So, I told myself that I would not make a new RMT until I either won a big tournament like the Smogon Tour or SPL or I quit the game. Well, the latter is happening. Some people may recognize this team as they’re reading this RMT as the team I used for Smogon Tour 13 and some of Smogon Tour 14. This has been my go-to team for DPP for quite some time now. I really liked how this team has turned out after the seemingly countless tweaks I’ve done to it through the aching teambuilding and playtesting process. I also think this is a fitting time to post this with the announcement of Pokemon X & Y, giving way to Generation 6. By October, DPP will be two generations old.
There used to be a trend in naming your RMTs after music albums. Well, I decided to kinda bring that back a little bit by naming this after one of my favorite albums by the duo of Wit & Dre Murray: Hell’s Paradise. It’s actually a mixtape, but it is so good that I’ve seen some people consider it an album and I do as well. Before you pass judgment on the sub-genre known as Christian Hip Hop, I implore you to take a listen to this masterpiece. For it being a Christian Hip Hop “mixtape”, Hell’s Paradise is pretty...dark. The reason why I'm naming it after this particular project is because of the concept of the album. The struggles and situations you go through in life essentially make up a "dream world" that Dre Murray calls Hell's Paradise (Hell's Paradise being life itself on Earth until Heaven). I tend to see competitive Pokemon in a similar fashion, that it's a dream world that can feel real but isn't. Anyway, you’ll be able to listen to some tracks right off of this RMT as you go along.
My last RMT, The Supe Nazi, had a terrible case of tl;dr. So I want to try and be a little more concise with this RMT, though I am probably going to fail miserably at that(I already know the Team Building process will be tl;dr). But, enough of the intro. Onto the Team Building process
Team Building Process
Isn't this how it goes for real though?
Art by manyuladic
Gallade (M) @ Life Orb **Spazz Out**
Steadfast | Jolly Nature | EV’s: 8 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD / 240 Spe
Shadow Sneak | Ice Punch | Zen Headbutt | Close Combat
Now I wanna give her hell and her friends don't have a clue
That instead of goin' ape, I'm about to bring the zoo
And now that I've arrived, they're like "What is this about?"
They saw my face and it left no doubt. I was 'bout to Spazz Out
Gallade is a very nasty lead to face and it's clear why I named it after the track "Spazz Out". I wanted something that can perform well against most leads and still have midgame significance. This spot used to be accompanied by Raikou who did all of these things, but did not fare well against stall at all. Gallade doesn’t match up quite as well against offensive teams, but it is much better against stall because it hits a lot harder and it still beats most of the common leads 1-on-1. Shadow Sneak 2HKO’s standard and Colbur Azelf leads, Gengar, and offensive Starmie. Ice Punch OHKO’s Gliscor and Dragonite as well as catching an unsuspecting Flygon or Zapdos switching in. Zen Headbutt is specifically for those stray Machamp leads, but it is good STAB in general since Psychic gets decent neutral coverage, especially on something like Gallade(Ttar wouldn’t dare switch in). Close Combat is Gallade’s best attack and hits extremely hard coming off of 349 Attack, STAB, and Life Orb. All Heatran leads are destroyed by it. Breloom is also manhandled if Gallade isn't asleep.
The EV’s are stolen from BKC. 252 Attack is so Gallade hits as hard as possible. 8 HP is a Life Orb number. 240 Speed coupled with a Jolly nature lets Gallade hit 281 Speed, outrunning anything with 280 Speed or less, such as Adamant Lucario. The rest goes into Sp.Def to bolster an already good stat. I've experimented with the standard 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe spread as well to hit 284 Speed, outrunning all base 80's that don't run max Speed as well as other Pokemon that aim to beat the 280 Speed benchmark, but I want some more opinions as to which one is actually better.
Art by Bummer
Forretress (F) @ Shed Shell **Brand New**
Sturdy | Careful Nature | EV’s: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Sp. Def
Stealth Rock | Rapid Spin | Payback | Explosion
So maybe I should try to
Not a lot of people to say bye to
Then again, they don't know I exist
No goodbye kiss
Maybe they should die too
Look at the lyrics and you'll see why I named Forry after "Brand New". This spot was occupied by Bronzong for a long time. The set I was running was a Trick variant with Toxic Orb. While Bronzong frustrated offensive teams, it became setup fodder for stall teams to get hazards down. With a little inspiration from TNT's Girl In The Fire RMT, I then turned to Forretress since it was the closest thing to Bronzong that I could get and also gave me a spinner. This is definitely the weirdest Forretress set I’ve ever used, but I wanted to customize Forry’s set to fit the needs for this team and it had the support movepool to do it. Shed Shell is used to keep Magnezone from trapping Forry before she can do her job. Stealth Rock is obvious since it’s the best move in the game, doing up to 200% damage to pokes over the course of a game. Rapid Spin is to give me a much better chance against stall and any other hazard abusing teams in general(especially those that use Skarm). Payback is to hit incoming Ghost-types looking to spinblock. Explosion is used so as not to become fodder against offensive teams looking to boost their sweepers for free and it gives me a free switch to get something in safely.
The EV’s are standard fare. 252 HP and 252 SpD EV’s with a Careful nature allow Forretress to tank as many special attacks as possible, such as Draco Meteor from Mixed Dragonite. The last point goes into Defense.
Art by Sorocabano
Gyarados (F) @ Leftovers **Horrors**
Intimidate | Adamant Nature | EV’s: 60 HP / 252 Atk / 196 Spe
Dragon Dance | Taunt | Waterfall | Bounce
Ain't nothin' worse than pins that won't fall
Pins that won't stick. Skin is too thick.
Their bond together is strong; they stand tall.
But some of 'em are weak and He can't save 'em all
"Horrors", which is off the Deluxe Edition of this album, seems like a fitting track for Gyarados. I don’t think people realize how good DD + Taunt Gyarados really is in DPP OU. It absolutely demolishes any unprepared team, especially ones with FWG cores and tears stall apart once Rotom-A is gone. Gyarados is the biggest reason teams almost have to run Rotom-A. Anyway, Gyarados is the first of a combination of sweepers and sets up on nearly everything that would counter Tyranitar, such as Scizor, Lucario, Infernape, Hippowdon and Breloom.
Gyarados and I have gone through a lot. For a long time I struggled with exactly what moveset and EV spread I should be running. I’ve used Stone Edge with an EV spread of 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe and a Jolly nature, eventually using Bounce over Stone Edge. I then tried out other things like holding Wacan Berry, using the standard Bulky Gyara set, even trying out Choice Band Gyara. I was never quite comfortable with any of those options because they either didn’t hit hard enough or didn’t last long enough. I then ran across an EV spread that george182 used for his Gyarados in his Simply the Best RMT. I gave it a shot and haven’t looked back since. I was surprised with how much of a difference in power there was between Jolly and Adamant. Pretty standard fare: a Bulky Gyara moveset with an EV spread close to LO Gyara’s. This spread allows Gyarados to OHKO offensive Starmie and Shaymin with Bounce after one boost. Bounce also works well in conjunction with Leftovers. Waterfall hits as hard as possible. The rest of the set allows Gyara to sweep while preventing it from getting pHazed or just disrupting the opponent in general.
Art by All0412
Tyranitar (M) @ Shuca Berry **Hell's Paradise**
Sand Stream | Jolly Nature | EV’s: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Dragon Dance | Crunch | Ice Punch | Earthquake
I know you see 'em baby. Pushin' them fancy cars!
You see them flashin' lights. You wanna be a star!
See, you may think they're right, but they will pay the price
Yeah, they'll pay the price
See, this ain't real life 'cuz you're in Hell's Paradise
The main reason I built this team (though Gyarados comes in a very close second) and the second part of my sweeping combination. Clearly Ttar had to be named off the track "Hell's Paradise". Anyone who has read The Smog for a long time knows about this set. Heatran is still the most used Pokemon in DPP, so Gyarados and Tyranitar take full advantage of that by setting up on most sets. This particular Dragon Dance variant strays from the standard and, instead of countering Scizor with Fire Punch + Babiri Berry, it specializes in dealing with Scarf Flygon via Ice Punch + Shuca Berry since Scarf Flygon is the main check to Tyranitar. It can also beat Gliscor as a bonus. Even though Gliscor has Sand Veil, Shuca Berry allows Tyranitar to get two shots at KO’ing it after a boost. Other things it can take out in the right conditions are Dragonite, Lucario without Bullet Punch, Infernape without Mach Punch and SubSeed Breloom (+1 Ice Punch does around 90% to it). Most Heatran are, again, setup bait. If Flygon, Skarmory, and Scizor are gone, +1 Tyranitar usually sweeps.
As I stated earlier, Tyranitar usually gets opportunities to set up on Gyarados’ counters. Things such as Zapdos, Jolteon, and Rotom-A that don’t carry Trick or Will-o-Wisp. Speaking of Will-o-Wisp, I thought about using Lum Berry so Ttar can walk in on Rotom-A easier, but Shuca Berry has saved me so many times I just end up sticking with it. The reason I chose the coverage that I did is because Stone Edge really, really sucks. It really does. If it even had 85% accuracy I would consider it since it’s Tyranitar’s most powerful move and Skarmory is no longer a full stop. But, I’d rather just have 100% accurate moves to hit everything and Ice/Ground coverage is ridiculously good in DPP OU IMO, dismantling nearly every FWG core in the tier and taking out threats such as Dragonite, Flygon, Gliscor, and Zapdos at the same time who are normally paired with said FWG cores. Oh, and I can’t stand the fact that if I used the set posted on the Smog, I would be walled by Lucario, who is only the strongest sweeper in 4th gen OU. EV’s and nature are standard, taking advantage of the Sp.Def boost in the sand while outspeeding base 115’s like Starmie and below after a boost.
Art by All0412
Jolteon (M) @ Leftovers **Circulate**
Volt Absorb | Timid Nature | EV’s: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Wish | Protect | Hidden Power Grass | Thunderbolt
They say this Earth, but it feel like Hell
Man, I ain't ate in a week, homie, can't you tell
Could really use some clean water, but we got no well
They said this AIDS might get me, but I'm like "oh well"
I named Jolteon after "Circulate" for obvious reasons. This spot used to be occupied by Scarf Magneton. The earlier versions of the team did very well against nearly all forms of offense. Stall was a winnable matchup, but this team struggled a bit against a well played stall team. I also didn’t like how Magneton was essentially useless in certain matchups. I wanted something that could function similar to Magneton and I also wanted a base 130 Speed poke to replace Aerodactyl: in comes Jolteon. But, what set? I really didn’t like any of the standard sets especially since Tyranitar and Sp.Def Heatran are popular in the metagame, but Yawn Jolteon intrigued me. Then I thought “why not use Wish instead of Yawn?”. Wish came about because I didn’t like how Gyarados essentially had 4 times to switch in before dying and when I needed Gyara down the stretch, it was already dead. I always thought GyaraJolt was a noob combo, that it was too predictable after the opponent sees it, but it does work when used properly.
The consensus is that Jolteon is too frail to be a Wish Passer, but it has worked wonders on this team. Jolteon forces a lot of switches so it gets plenty of opportunities to Wish. Protect is beautiful on Jolteon. The most common answers to Jolteon are Tyranitar, Flygon, and Specially Defensive Heatran. The former two tend to be Choiced. In this manner, Jolteon functions similar to the Yawn set with Protect to scout for the move Tyranitar and Flygon lock into as well as giving Jolteon a way to heal itself. I've never really needed a Scarfed revenge killer thanks to Jolteon's blistering Speed and ability to shut most other Scarfers down. I've never liked Choice 'mons in general because you can potentially give up momentum, so I'd rather not use one. Thunderbolt is STAB and deals with the bulky Waters that GyaraTar cannot deal with, such as Suicune and Vaporeon. Hidden Power Grass is to take out the annoying Swampert who I was seeing more of just before I stopped playing. I am considering Hidden Power Ice, but I haven’t done so since I already have Ice coverage on Gallade and Tyranitar. EV’s are standard and speak for themselves, outrunning everything in OU that has less than 394 Speed.
Art by Mark Avila
Flygon (F) @ Life Orb **Too Classy**
Levitate | Rash Nature | EV’s: 16 Atk / 252 SpA / 240 Spe
Draco Meteor | Earthquake | Fire Blast | Roost
The Devil don't wear Prada; no she wear nada
Tryna' put me to the flames and that ain't cool
And last, but certainly not least, we have Mixed Flygon. The only reason I named Flygon after "Too Classy", which is also off the Deluxe Edition, is because....idk :/ . The reason for this choice is that Flygon is virtually immune to hazards, giving Flygon some longevity. It also gives me a second Electric immunity to relieve some of the burden off Tyranitar. I’ve tried some earlier sets: Scarf Flygon and Mixed Flygon with Expert Belt. I finally decided to drop the Expert Belt and stop bluffing the Scarf set for a Life Orb since Flygon was missing out on some OHKOs/2HKOs. I also found Scarf Flygon to be pretty terrible in 4th gen. I hate to diss it, but everyone knows what it does and it isn’t that scary of an offensive threat as long as you’re a good teambuilder. Jolly Outrage can’t even OHKO Infernape after SR, so there you have it. MixGon, on the other hand, is a monster against stall. Since stall can’t beat Flygon through it’s main source of damage(hazards), it has to resort to revenge killing it. Draco Meteor is the big draw of the set. Flygon tends to lure in physical tanks like Hippowdon, Gliscor and Swampert, so Draco Meteor puts a huge dent in those. Earthquake is general STAB and Fire Blast keeps all Spikers at bay. Roost allows me to last much longer against stall and mitigates Life Orb recoil. It guarantees that you will have to actually hit Flygon to KO it.
The EV’s are stolen from WillSO. He used this spread in his So Long, Lonesome RMT. 240 Speed EV’s allow Flygon to hit 296 Speed, beating Offensive Suicune by one point in order to Earthquake it before it can KO with Ice Beam. Situational, but has been useful at times. 252 SpA EV’s are standard for MixGon and the rest go into Attack.
I hope you enjoyed reading this. Even though I’ve essentially stopped playing, I still encourage you to rate this team and even take it for a spin. I will still be around to see what advice I get for this team and I will probably even playtest said suggestions. Shoutouts to everyone from the defunct FalChat who have been there since the beginning: BKC, penguinx, trollmonchan, Nubagator, Faladran and the others that I either forgot to mention or are long gone and quit this game (I guess Thundurrr gets an honorable mention). If I forgot to add you then let me know. Anyway, if you like this team, feel free to leave a Luvdisc at the top right corner of the OP(sorry, it's a YouTube habit lol). I’ve gotta say, though, it’s really sad that the Past Gen Team forum is now dead and gone, but so it goes when a new generation comes along. It was inevitable. This team was a blast to use. Now, RMT!
Last edited by JackieChun; Feb 4th, 2013 at 8:11:20 PM.
|Feb 4th, 2013, 6:34:00 PM||#2|
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Where all tasks have been cleared
OU Threat List
Blissey: One thing about this team is that there’s a lot of physical attackers. You just need to get a feel for the team that Blissey is on and that determines your initial switch-ins. If Blissey is on an offensive team, it probably has Thunder Wave so Jolteon and Flygon are good switch-ins. If it’s on stall, then Forry is good. Gallade, Tyranitar, and Gyarados will always force Blissey out if they don’t catch status. Flygon does initially as well. Jolteon can Wish as it comes in and can scout the Blissey set.
Bronzong: Usually comes out early for Stealth Rock. Gyarados easily sets up on it bar Explosion and that isn’t a guaranteed OHKO with Intimidate on it, assuming SR is off the field. Tyranitar has to be more careful because of Gyro Ball. Earthquake is usually a 3HKO after Shuca Berry. Forry easily comes in to spin or set up SR. Flygon barbecues it. Jolteon can scout for EQ. Gallade 2HKO’s it. Not a big threat, basically.
Celebi: If Tyranitar or Gyarados get one boost, Celebi is in trouble. Thunder Wave is the biggest issue. Jolteon makes a decent switch if Celebi doesn’t have Earth Power. If it does, then HP Fire is usually non-existant, so Forry becomes a good switch-in. I usually try to wear it down just a little bit, then finish it off late game with one of my sweepers.
Cresselia: The only ones I ever saw recently were Psycho Shift and Dual Screens. Tyranitar manhandles Cress. Gyarados does too, except for the rare Charge Beam sets. Forry is excellent against it. Even if Forry gets burned by Psycho Shift, it’s not the end of the world. Jolteon makes a good burn candidate and can Wish pass.
Donphan: Every single Pokemon on this team hits Donphan really hard except Forretress, who can come in to spin SR away. Jolteon is the last ditch effort with HP Grass.
Dusknoir: It just takes scouting the coverage it may or may not have. You don’t really see these because of the existence of Rotom-A, who is holistically superior. Jolteon is actually a good initial switch-in since it can potentially scout half the set if they have Will-o-Wisp and Earthquake. Jolteon is the prime candidate to take burns. Forry can too except if Dusknoir is the spinblocker on a stall team. Either Gyarados or Tyranitar will be the answer depending on the entire set. Flygon can smash it with Draco Meteor if Ice Punch isn’t present.
Forretress: Flygon will barbecue it. It’s also setup fodder for Gyarados and Tyranitar. Almost all Forry are Specially Defensive, so Gallade 2HKO’s those with Close Combat. Just don’t let it Spike up too much. Forry vs. Forry will sometimes be the matchup to stop hazards.
Gliscor: Gallade will always force it out as long as it’s at near full health. Gallade is no longer an answer once it’s under 60% health which is usually mid-to-late game. Tyranitar is designed to beat Gliscor and gets 2 shots to OHKO it with Ice Punch. Forry can hold it off and spin away SR, eventually Exploding. Flygon and Gyarados massacre it, but at the cost of taking Toxic. Sometimes I will even switch between Gyarados and Forretress to wear it down via PP stall and Intimidate, eventually making Gallade a 100% counter to Gliscor.
Gyarados: ResTalk only becomes a threat if the opposing team managed to get hazards down. The only ones that absolutely can’t handle it are Tyranitar and Gallade. Jolteon will always force it out. Flygon can pelt it with Draco Meteor. Forry spins and can blow up. Gyarados has Taunt and will win 1 on 1.
Hippowdon: Gallade 2HKO’s with Close Combat if it’s Specially Defensive. Otherwise, Gyarados can take it on. Tyranitar will win once boosted and Shuca Berry is still intact. Flygon can’t actually beat it, but most Hippowdon won’t be able to touch Flygon either, so it’s best to either Roost or soften it up before the Roar. Forry can spin or setup in a pinch.
Heatran: The biggest thing to watch for is Lava Plume because you don’t want your physical attackers getting burned. Otherwise, Gallade, Gyarados, and Tyranitar will force Heatran out. Scout for Earth Power. If Tran doesn’t have it, then Jolteon makes an OK switch-in for it, but it’s 2HKO’d by Lava Plume if Heatran has some SpA EV’s on it and it’s not KO’ing Tran anytime soon. Flygon is decent as well since it’s not totally useless if it gets burned.
Jirachi: Tyranitar easily handles it, but watch for Body Slam. Most are Calm Mind variants or Scarfed, though. Gallade can 2HKO Bold CM + Wish Jirachi with prior damage via Close Combat. Flygon nails defensive sets as well, but again, watch for Body Slam.
Rotom-A: ResTalk is pretty tough since nothing on the team flat out OHKO’s it without some type of boosts or prior damage. It will just take wearing it down until you can KO it with a team member. Gyarados will always draw it out so Rotom-A always takes a Waterfall coming in. This is key because then I get to see what item it has. From there, it’s usually a combined effort from everyone to wear it down and KO it late game. Some team members will get more time against Rotom-A than others depending on the forme (Ex: Tyranitar won’t switch into Wash or Cut forms as well as anyone that has WoW, which I use Jolteon to scout for). Defensive Rotom-A with Pain Split make this arguably easier.
Skarmory: Skarm is a full stop to Tyranitar. Gyarados will set up all over it. Jolteon forces it out. Forry spins all day against if there’s no spinblockers and is usually the first Pokemon I bring out against it. Flygon massacres it.
Snorlax: Gallade will destroy any set before any type of setup. Gyarados and Tyranitar can as well. The biggest thing to watch for is Body Slam though. Forry usually switches to scout the set, either spins or sets up SR, then Explodes to give Gallade a free switch if it’s CurseLax. Thankfully, Snorlax isn’t too common and doesn’t have a lot of room to come in.
Suicune: I use the GyaraJolt combo to manhandle defensive Suicune. Between these two, Suicune is hard pressed to setup or support any team since it’s either Taunted or it’s taking a ton from Thunderbolt or it’s getting set up on.
Swampert: Can be annoying. It just takes my team members beating the crap out of it until it goes down. Forry can spin SR away. Gallade can OHKO it with Close Combat once Pert is under 50%. Flygon can smash it with Draco Meteor when Pert initially switches into it. Jolteon can surprise it with Hidden Power Grass, doing 70% minimum.
Tentacruel: Not too common these days in DPP. Basically, everyone is a threat to it. Jolteon obviously pelts it. Tyranitar can actually Dragon Dance in it’s face if it doesn’t have the very rare Hydro Pump. Gyarados can beat it too, barring HP Electric. Forry will spin on it once spinblockers are gone. Gallade threatens with Zen Headbutt. Flygon demolishes it with EQ.
Vaporeon: Can be troublesome with the right team support. Jolteon will always force it out. It can’t switch into Gallade either since Close Combat 2HKO’s. The problem is that Vaporeon actually 2HKO’s Jolteon with Surf. Vaporeon has to be worn down, which isn’t always easy. The good news is that Vappy doesn’t have a whole lot of room to come in. If either Gyarados or Tyranitar get to +2, it won’t matter. I think I’ve only personally lost one game because of Vappy.
Zapdos: SubRoost is the most popular defensive set by far. Jolteon makes a decent initial switch-in since they usually Sub first and can scout for the Toxic or Hidden Power with Protect. Hidden Power versions get set up on by Tyranitar. Toxic versions, the more common ones, are tougher since only Forry is immune to Toxic and Forry can’t actually beat Zapdos. Gallade hits it hard with Ice Punch. Tyranitar will beat it as well especially if it doesn’t catch a Toxic. I usually use a combination of all of the above, then bring Tyranitar or Gallade in on a turn where it’s forced to Roost and threaten it from there.
Azelf: They are usually leads, so see above for how I handle those. Tyranitar is just a good switch overall for Azelf. You just have to watch for Grass Knot. Gallade can pick it off at 50%. Jolteon outspeeds it as well.
Breloom: Always annoying with the right team support. Usually they’re on offensive team, so Forry is the sleep fodder once it has done it’s duties. Gyarados usually comes in for Intimidate before the Sub goes up. Then I usually scout for Stone Edge by going back to Forry, though Stone Edge is pretty rare. If they have it, Gallade will beat it by itself. If it’s Seed Bomb, then I may need to use Gallade and Gyarados to take it on. Jolteon actually 2HKO’s SubPunch Breloom with Thunderbolt since you can wear Breloom down with teamwork. Gyarados can beat SubSeed variants and set up all over them. If Tyranitar gets to +1, Breloom is done as even SubSeed takes 90% from Ice Punch like I said earlier.
Dragonite: The team pretty much doesn’t allow Dragonite to come in since if it gets a boost, only Jolteon will outrun it. If Dragonite doesn’t get a boost, Gallade will always beat it. Tyranitar will threaten it as well, especially at +1. Flygon outspeeds and will OHKO. Forry is the only Pokemon that Dragonite will try to come in on and DNite will catch an Explosion if it tries to set up. Then Jolteon cleans up the remains. Forry can tank a +1 Outrage if it has to and is usually my switch into MixNite if it somehow gets in.
Dugtrio: Jolteon would be the prime target for Duggy…and it will catch an HP Grass if it doesn’t have Sucker Punch. Jolteon can Protect to scout for the move since most Duggy are Choice Band and will be locked into the move of choice. Everything else will threaten it. Forry can explode on it if you have to. Dugtrio doesn’t get many safe switches and has to come in on a revenge, but it will take heavy damage just to revenge my Pokemon.
Electivire: Any good player stays far away from using Electivire because it just can’t hit hard enough, despite it’s great coverage. Everything is pretty much a good switch into it whenever they come in since only newer players use it and it’s fairly easy to predict what it will do. The only time you have to be careful is if Jolteon is out and you’ve already seen something that’s weak to Electric. Gyarados is the big example since it’s usually paired with Electivire. If Electivire does grab a boost, it can’t OHKO Gallade no matter what so it will be forced out.
Flygon: Usually Scarfed. Jolteon can actually scout with Protect and then make the appropriate switch from there, since that’s who Flygon will most likely go into. Tyranitar will beat Flygon if you keep it above 50%. Gyarados can hit it hard with Waterfall, though Gyarados is the reason most Flygon have ThunderPunch. Gallade can pick it off when it’s low. Forry can come into Flygon in a pinch.
Gallade: They are usually leads or they are Swords Dance. Gallade doesn’t have too many chances to come in without taking a lot of damage. Gyarados is the overall best switch in and then you can scout for Stone Edge. Jolteon can hit it twice with Thunderbolt if Gallade chooses to come in that way and will need to come if Gallade is SD and KO’s Gyara. Forry will blow up on it. My own Gallade can Shadow Sneak, though the opposing Gallade will win if it has Shadow Sneak and it’s Jolly as well(almost all Gallade are IIRC). SD Gallade will get worn down very fast between sand, Gyarados, Jolteon, and my own Gallade.
Gengar: Gallade can pick it off at 50%. Tyranitar will decimate it at +1, as will Gyarados. Forry hits it hard with Payback. Jolteon outruns it. The only time it can really come in is on Flygon trying to Earthquake or after a KO. Forry and Tyranitar are the initial switch-ins depending on which has been shown already and the opponent’s team and playstyle, though you can never be too careful of Focus Blast.
Gyarados: It is always a threat in general. Jolteon will always force unboosted Gyarados out, but it usually comes in on Gallade. Unlike ResTalk Gyarados though, Zen Headbutt hits it hard, 2HKOing even after Intimidate assuming SR is down. Checking for it’s item is key. If it has Leftovers, then Jolteon can come in to force it out as Waterfall will almost never OHKO. If it doesn’t show Leftovers, I go all out with Gallade, hitting Gyara with Zen Headbutt until Gallade goes down and I Shadow Sneak for the last move if Gyara grabbed a boost on the way. Then I spring Jolteon on it.
Heatran: Gyarados and Tyranitar easily switch into offensive Heatran and set up. Tyranitar is the best switch, of course, since it can even take a hit from Specs Heatran. Gallade outruns it and OHKO’s as does Flygon. Not really a threat.
Heracross: Gyarados is the initial switch-in. Again, scout for Stone Edge unless it’s Choice locked into something else. Flygon also outruns it and scorches it with Fire Blast. Most are Choice Scarf.
Infernape: Gyarados is the best switch again. Most are mixed so they can get worn down quickly if sand is up. Scout for Stone Edge/ThunderPunch/HP Electric as you see fit, though they aren’t necessarily common. Jolteon outspeeds it and so does +1 Tyranitar, but beware of Mach Punch. If they have Mach Punch, they usually don’t have Stone Edge unless it’s a Swords Dance variant which are also rare. Gallade can pick it off if necessary.
Jolteon: Flygon and my own Jolteon are good initial switch-ins to scout the set. Choice Specs is easier to get around. Tyranitar is the answer to the other sets since all Jolteon are forced out by Tyranitar. Gallade can pick it off when it’s low.
Kingdra: Kingdra, like the other dragons, doesn’t get a lot of room to switch in. It’s usually on heavy offense teams like Rain Dance. It can only really come in on Forry. If I don’t need Forry anymore when Kingdra comes in, I will blow up. Otherwise, Gyarados is usually my first switch to get Intimidate and either follow up with Taunt or go back to Forry if I know it will Outrage. Tyranitar is thrown into the mix too, if Rain is involved, just to cancel the weather. Flygon outspeeds most offensive Kingdra outside the Rain. Jolteon outruns all Kingdra outside the rain.
Lucario: Gyarados is my initial switch, like with all other Fighters. Swords Dance is the most common set. Stone Edge is almost non-existant on Lucario, but you can scout for it. It can only safely come in on Forretress and Luke will get blown up on if Forry has done it’s job. Flygon will beat any unboosted Lucario. Jolteon outruns it as well, though Luke has Extremespeed which 2HKOs unboosted.
Machamp: These are pretty easy to deal with when leading. Gallade will always beat Machamp 1 on 1. Otherwise, Gyarados is a good switch to it. Worst case scenario is you have to just hit it hard a la Swampert if you lose Gyarados and Gallade. They are necessary to deal with ResTalk variants though.
Magnezone: Since Forry has Shed Shell, they will be disappointed when they realize it can’t be trapped. Tyranitar takes care of most Magnezone as does Flygon. Gallade will threaten it if it doesn’t have a Sub. Gyarados and Jolteon shouldn’t mess with it unless you want to get Jolteon in on Thunderbolt and immediately switch out.
Mamoswine: Gyarados is the initial switch for Intimidate. They are usually Life Orb unless they are leading, in which case Gallade can take them 1 on 1. Worst case scenario is he brings them down to their Sash and then either Forry or Jolteon finish it off. Scout for Stone Edge. Jolteon outruns them and hits hard with HP Grass. Tyranitar can take any non-Scarfed Mamo on at +1. Forry can blow up on Mamo, if necessary.
Metagross: It only really gets opportunity to set up against Forry, who can blow up to give something else a free switch. Tyranitar is typically either at +1 already or Metagross has to take an attack to come in on it. Gyarados is a good switch into Metagross. Flygon will outspeed and KO before an Agility. If it grabs an Agility, the ThunderPunch variants can be tough. Usually, since Forry is the one that's in when that happens, I'll stay in to Payback twice before blowing up and Gallade can pick it off, but it needs to be alive. If they hold Life Orb, it makes things even easier. Just be wary of the rare Trick variants, but those are typically leads these days, if Metagross leads at all. Gallade can actually beat Metagross before a boost.
Porygon-Z: Tyranitar is a great switch, but be wary of Tri Attack. Gallade can force out unboosted Porygon-Z. Forry can switch into a predicted Tri Attack and blow up on it if needed. Jolteon outruns all non-Scarf Porygon-Z.
Roserade: Pretty tough. If it’s leading, see above, but it’s not pretty. Most Roserades are not offensive sets these days. Forry is the initial switch, followed up by Flygon or Gyarados to scout for the HP Fire. If I see Life Orb, I go to the former. If I see Leftovers, I go to the latter. Gyarados or Tyranitar need to get to +1 to comfortably beat Rose. Gallade can beat defensive variants 1 on 1. Forry can take on any non-HP Fire Roserade.
Scizor: Another full stop to Tyranitar. I use the GyaraJolt combination for it. Gyarados is the go-to Pokemon for all Scizor. Jolteon then jumps in to keep Gyarados healthy with Wish and can come in on unboosted Bullet Punches, 2HKOing with Thunderbolt. If Scizor sets up a Swords Dance, I usually go all out with Gyarados to cripple it, then bring in Jolteon for the KO.
Shaymin: My absolute greatest fear. Life Orb Shaymin with HP Fire can wreck this entire team when played well. Forry is my only switch into Seed Flare and my initial Shaymin switch-in. Then I scout for HP Fire through Flygon. Shaymin was very rare before I stopped playing and I really don’t know why. If I did see it, it was a defensive variant, so I haven’t had to face LO Shaymin with this team, thankfully.
Starmie: If it’s leading, see above. If not, Jolteon is a good check to it. I don’t necessarily have a safe switch into offensive Starmie (defensive is far less of a threat). They will usually come in on Gyarados or Gallade. If Forry has done it’s job, I will sac it to Hydro Pump. Note that Gallade can pick LO Starmie off at 50%, so you don’t have to wait long if sand is up. +1 Tyranitar also annihilates it.
Togekiss: These were almost non-existant. Nasty Plot and Scarf are the ones I run into. If Togekiss doesn’t have Aura Sphere or Thunder Wave, Tyranitar will have a field day with it. Togekiss usually has one of the two though, so scouting is key. Jolteon is a good check to it and can switch into Thunder Wave. Scarf is fairly easy to play around. Gallade threatens the bulkier offensive sets since he outruns most of them. Gyarados can cripple it and win in the right conditions. Flygon can hit it for decent damage as well, being immune to Thunder Wave.
Tyranitar: Most of them are Scarfed, especially if you’re facing stall. They will almost always come in on Jolteon, who can Protect to scout the locked move. Gyarados can come in on Dragon Dance variants to lure the Stone Edge. Gallade and Flygon will destroy any Tyranitar that doesn’t have it’s Attack boosted and will also outrun Choice Band variants. Forry can take a hit and Explode if necessary.
Weavile: Gyarados is actually a good switch into most Weavile. If it’s Swords Dance, I pressure it with Gyarados. Gallade can threaten the extremely rare lead set, but should be handled similar to Infernape leads. Weavile tends to get worn down fast if SR and sand are up, especially Life Orb variants. Jolteon outruns them in a pinch. Forry can blow up on them if absolutely necessary.
Yanmega: Tyranitar usually takes care of these as even HP Ground doesn’t do much. They usually lead since SR massacres other sets. Jolteon can hit them with Thunderbolt in a pinch, though Specs Bug Buzz will OHKO Jolteon more often than not.
Zapdos: Only Tyranitar can actually stand up to Life Orb variants with Roost and hit them hard. Even then, you must be careful of HP Grass. Offensive Zapdos can only come in on Forry as everything else will do damage to it on the switch. A healthy Gallade can hit Zapdos hard with Ice Punch. Jolteon can actually come in on Thunderbolt, take a Heat Wave, and hit back with Thunderbolt if necessary. Any Zapdos without Heat Wave allows Forry to blow up on it.
Last edited by JackieChun; Apr 3rd, 2013 at 3:05:22 PM. Reason: Finally posting the threat list
|Feb 10th, 2013, 6:59:58 AM||#3|
bringer of torture
Join Date: May 2010
I really don't like your odds against any variant of Will-o-Wisp Rotom-A, although the fast SubSplit sets are definitely the worst; nothing on can shrug off burns, which also means that Heatran packing a status move are going to be a pain in the ass.
Metagross gets a free Agility (rock polish is cooler but no one uses it idk why) against Jolteon and Meteor Mash/Earthquake/ThunderPunch will kill everything bar Forretress, who gets worn down fast without Leftovers and isn't doing much back anyway.
Grass-types are really nasty to face. Breloom waltzes in on Forretress or Jolteon, proceeding to cripple one mon and killing another at bare minimum. The only mon who can shrug off Shaymin's Life Orb Seed Flares, Forretress, gets killed by HP Fire. Leech Seed + Protect also annoys everything.
Life Orb Starmie is an absolute terror with a bit of prediction; if it nails the Gyarados --> Jolteon switch with Hydro Pump and Tyranitar's not at full HP, your only hope is to switch around and let it kill itself from Life Orb + Sandstorm, which is unreliable and even if Starmie doesn't end up KOing everything, it'll leave you so weakened that you'll be easy picking for almost anything else.
So those are some pretty dangerous threats to be weak to, as they're all common, but I have some ideas that I think will help out! Firstly, to help against the defensive threats I mentioned (Will-o-Wisp Rotom-A & status Heatran), I would try a MixTar with Lum Berry. He can Crunch Rotom to the grave, shrugging off the Will-o-Wisp with Lum; he can also switch into Heatran without fear of being poisoned or burned. As a bonus, Tyranitar can lure in Breloom and surprise KO it as well, although with the next change I'm about to suggest, you shouldn't have many problems with it.
Ok so we're still weak to offensive threats: AgiliGross, Grass-types, & LO Starmie. Is there a mon that hard counters all of them? No, but Specially Defensive Zapdos comes very close! It walls AgiliGross, Breloom, Shaymin, and can check LO Starmie, as Ice Beam barely 2HKOs and Hydro Pump needs two high rolls to do so; with some smart switching and damage rolls slightly in your favor, you should have it under control.
The last change I'd try is Choice Scarf Flygon. With Tyranitar relegated to wallbreaking duty, Flygon's services in that department are no longer needed, so you can make use of its excellent late-game cleaning and general catch-all revenge killing utility that is helped by Tyranitar's ability to bait in & weaken/KO physical walls that hamper Gon.
Dragon Dance Tyranitar --> MixTar
Jolteon --> Specially Defensive Zapdos
Mixed Flygon --> ScarfGon