Simple Questions & Simple Answers & General Resources (OU Edition) MK II

[fire r a g e]

Why is Kyurem-B's analysis still Uber? Why did they upload it if Kyurem-B is OU?

[LilOuOn]

Originally Posted by Fat fire r a g e

Why is Kyurem-B's analysis still Uber? Why did they upload it if Kyurem-B is OU?

Well, I think that making all the analysis is a lot of work, probably the mods are occupied. Kyurem-B was Uber the first time, so his analysis was uploaded when he was there, then he went down to OU and the strategy wasn't updated.

[Gary2346]

For my team, I'm looking to have a more physically defensive Ferrothorn than the more balanced set that most usually run. Should I just go flat out 252/252+ or should I have a specific investment in SpD in order to survive a certain move? I'm feelin that 252/252+ would work just fine because I also have Latias on my team as a Water Sponge, and Jellicent as well, so Rain boosted Hydro Pumps aren't too much of a deal to my team. Any thoughts?

[LilOuOn]

I think that is something of your choice. If you already have Jellicent and Latias, go for it, and if it doesn't work, return to the standard one.

I just made a calc with Relaxed max defense ferro:

Detailed Result:
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs 252 HP/252 Def Ferrothorn (+Def) : 98.86% - 116.76% 87.5% chance to OHKO

You have an opportunity to survive CB Terrakion's Close Combat and then strike back with gyro :]

[youngjake93]

Originally Posted by Fat Gary2346

For my team, I'm looking to have a more physically defensive Ferrothorn than the more balanced set that most usually run. Should I just go flat out 252/252+ or should I have a specific investment in SpD in order to survive a certain move? I'm feelin that 252/252+ would work just fine because I also have Latias on my team as a Water Sponge, and Jellicent as well, so Rain boosted Hydro Pumps aren't too much of a deal to my team. Any thoughts?

Alakazam+Gengar+Reuniclus would be hell for that core with Shadow Ball+Focus Blast. Plus, Hydreigon with Dark Pulse+Focus Blast.

I know it wasn't the question, but you MIGHT be better off with Band Spiritomb as your spin blocker as it can Pursuit those threats, is immune to Psychic+Focus Blast and only takes neutral damage from Shadow ball. Latias+Ferrothorn are plenty for water resist.

4 SpA Salamence Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn: 332-392 (94.31 - 111.36%) -- 68.75% chance to OHKO

That's the only thing I can think of that gives physical Ferrothorn troubles. The more you invest in special, the lower the chance to OHKO, but it will take a lot of investment to make it guaranteed not to happen.

[Gary2346]

Originally Posted by Fat youngjake93

Alakazam+Gengar+Reuniclus would be hell for that core with Shadow Ball+Focus Blast. Plus, Hydreigon with Dark Pulse+Focus Blast.

I know it wasn't the question, but you MIGHT be better off with Band Spiritomb as your spin blocker as it can Pursuit those threats, is immune to Psychic+Focus Blast and only takes neutral damage from Shadow ball. Latias+Ferrothorn are plenty for water resist.

4 SpA Salamence Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn: 332-392 (94.31 - 111.36%) -- 68.75% chance to OHKO

That's the only thing I can think of that gives physical Ferrothorn troubles. The more you invest in special, the lower the chance to OHKO, but it will take a lot of investment to make it guaranteed not to happen.

Spiritomb is very bad in OU because he's outclassed by T-Tar and Scizor in the Pursuit trapping department. On top of that....he has no other use in OU. Besides, I have T-Tar as a Pursuit trapper, and Latias who has no problem taking a measly Fire Blast from a Choice Locked Mence. DD Mence is also out sped by my Choice Scarfed Landorus. Also, when would I ever switch Ferrothorn into a DD Mence? Switching into Outrage or D-Claw on a Choice locked Mence is a different story, but staying in on a DD Mence is just foolish.

[melvni]

Originally Posted by Fat fire r a g e

Why is Kyurem-B's analysis still Uber? Why did they upload it if Kyurem-B is OU?

Originally Posted by Fat LilOuOn

Well, I think that making all the analysis is a lot of work, probably the mods are occupied. Kyurem-B was Uber the first time, so his analysis was uploaded when he was there, then he went down to OU and the strategy wasn't updated.

To add to this, Pokemon don't just get analyses for the tier they're in. They get them for all tiers they can be used in in which they are viable (that's why things like Beartic have Ubers analyses despite being NU). As for why Kyurem-B doesn't have an OU analysis yet, it's currently being written and will be up once its done and peer edited.

[BettaOffDead]

This may be a silly question but is DD Salamence outclassed by Choice Scarf Salamence? I don't see anyone using the DD variant much. It all seems to be about Choice Scarf.

[The Great Mighty Doom]

Originally Posted by Fat BettaOffDead

This may be a silly question but is DD Salamence outclassed by Choice Scarf Salamence? I don't see anyone uss the DD variant. It all seems to be about Choice Scarf.

DDMence is somewhat outclassed by Dragonite, so generally people use the Scarf variant when using Salamence.

[Halcyon of Light]

I asked this on the Pokemon Showdown! SQSA thread, but no one answered me, so I guess I'll ask it here too. I haven't been able to access Showdown! for about four days now. Has anyone else experienced this problem? What can I do to fix it? I've been thinking git might have something to do with my school (which has been having extreme internet problems the past few days, and my friend also can't get on), but I wasn't sure if it might just be a problem with Showdown! or my own computer. Thanks in advance.

[BROStime]

Originally Posted by Fat Halcyon of Light

I asked this on the Pokemon Showdown! SQSA thread, but no one answered me, so I guess I'll ask it here too. I haven't been able to access Showdown! for about four days now. Has anyone else experienced this problem? What can I do to fix it? I've been thinking git might have something to do with my school (which has been having extreme internet problems the past few days, and my friend also can't get on), but I wasn't sure if it might just be a problem with Showdown! or my own computer. Thanks in advance.

Hello Halcyon !

Well after reading your post im pretty sure it has something to do with your school internet, and you shouldn't worry about your pc at all. Anyway something that might help is to try using another browser, other than that I really can't help you.

[Sacaen]

I am starting to notice more and more people are starting to run minimum speed CB scizor with less than 31 speed IVs. I currently run 0 Spe Scizor with 29 Spe IVs and I find myself "losing" the speed tie with a number of opposing scizor.

My question is how low can I bring my speed IVs before I start getting outsped by anything not named Scizor that I wouldn't normally be outsped by.


(the point of losing the speed battle vs enemy scizor is to U-Turn or Superpower last).

[BROStime]

Originally Posted by Fat Sacaen

I am starting to notice more and more people are starting to run minimum speed CB scizor with less than 31 speed IVs. I currently run 0 Spe Scizor with 29 Spe IVs and I find myself "losing" the speed tie with a number of opposing scizor.

My question is how low can I bring my speed IVs before I start getting outsped by anything not named Scizor that I wouldn't normally be outsped by.


(the point of losing the speed battle vs enemy scizor is to U-Turn or Superpower last).

I guess anything down to 23 IVs is viable as this lets you outspeed Magnezone that runs 4 spd Evs, as other thing you can speed creep on is Tyranitar, but it won't stay in on Scizor anyway and every Jellicent out there is running 44+ spd EVs so it doesn't matter.

[Shurtugal]

@Sacaen:

I don't see the point of running a slower Scizor imo. Lower speeds might win the U-turn war on who hits last for momentum, but then you must think that 1v1, the faster Scizor is going to beat the other Scizor, so I would really just run the 8 Spe ev's and leave it standard.

@BetaOffDead:

Depends on what you want Salamence to do. DD can run mixed a lot more reliably (since it can switch up attacks), as well as not worry too much about Outrage confusion if it holds a Lum Berry. While its harder to set up DD, getting +1 / +2 could sweep arguably better than Scarf. ScarfMence is also a late game sweeper and I'm not entirely sure DDMence plays the same way since it can't come in and threaten fast threats like SD Terrakion, etc. ScarfMence is a revenge sweeper and should really not be confused with a DD sweeper such as DD Mence.

If this question was asked because you wanted to build a team feel free to PM me if you seek advice. If it was a generalization, know that while ScarfMoxieMence is the most used Mence, that it doesn't necessarily outclass DD Mence since they play differently.

[BurningMan]

Originally Posted by Fat Shurtugal

@Sacaen:

I don't see the point of running a slower Scizor imo. Lower speeds might win the U-turn war on who hits last for momentum, but then you must think that 1v1, the faster Scizor is going to beat the other Scizor, so I would really just run the 8 Spe ev's and leave it standard.

actually the faster Scizor is going to lose if both use Superpower and are at full health because Superpowers Defense drop, however i think this is pretty situational and i actually often speed creep with scizor just to outspeed others so i can get the KO on a weakend opposing Scizor with Super Power, because i wouldn't switch in my Scizor on another Scizor otherwise and a double switch where both Players switch in Scizor is pretty rare.

[BlankZero]

Originally Posted by Fat LilOuOn

I think that is something of your choice. If you already have Jellicent and Latias, go for it, and if it doesn't work, return to the standard one.

I just made a calc with Relaxed max defense ferro:



You have an opportunity to survive CB Terrakion's Close Combat and then strike back with gyro :]

Or leech, protect, and switch out to your Ghost Type :)

[Subject 18]

What are good team mates for SD Lucario? I know Deoxys-D and TTar are good but I want to make a weatherless team and don't want to have to have make major changes in case Deoxys-D gets banned.

[Gimmick]

Landorus-T (SD variant) makes a great partner for the standard Lucario because it can weaken a lot of its checks 1 on 1. It depends on your set, really. If you're using SD / Espeed / CC / Ice Punch or Crunch, stuff like Terrakion and Jellicent (if Ice Punch) can come in and wall the whole set. Landorus-T easily switches into Terrakion and can set up from there while a +2 EQ even when burned will still hurt Jellicent. Obviously, Gothitelle works wonders for actually trapping the aforementioned threats, but Landorus-T can sweep teams as well while Gothitelle can't. Like you said, TTar is good because it can trap ghost types that are immune to Espeed and CC. If you want a weatherless team, Scizor can make a good partner because it weakens fast steel type switch-ins like Scarf Jirachi (who may want to switch into Bullet Punch but get U-turned) and can still Pursuit trap Gengar and weakened Jellicents. Overall, though, Gothitelle and TTar make really good partners. Together, they remove Jellicent, Gengar, Gliscor, Terrakion, Slowbro. TTar also supplies residual sand damage which helps against Keldeo (who isn't OHKO'd by a +2 ExtremeSpeed). Like I said, it depends on the rest of your team and what you want to accomplish.

[Tombst0ne]

Two things:

1) Why is Kyurem-B in OU and not ubers?

2) What is a good counter (please be relatively specific) to Kyurem-B in OU?

[Gimmick]

You can read about Kyurem-B here. In summary, it's weak to several priority moves and Stealth Rock, has a shallow physical movepool, and has sub-par speed. Even though it boasts the highest attack stat in the tier, it has to lock into Outrage to OHKO the majority of switch-ins, leaving it easily revenge killed and quite predictable.

Since Kyurem-B has two distinctly different options of physical or special, it's not something you can counter with just 1 Pokemon. It can use a CB set, Scarf set, offensive Hone Claws set, defensive Hone Claws + Dragon Tail, Sub 3 attacks, etc. Steel types (even Bronzong) are decimated by Earth Power from the Sub 3 attacks set while specially defensive walls like Blissey are easily taken care of by powerful Dragon Claws. In my experience of using Sub 3 attacks Kyurem, there wasn't something that "countered" it, but several things checked it. For example, Scizor only took about 30-40% from Earth Power, but was able to OHKO with Bullet Punch. There are several fighting types in the tier to take advantage of a slow and open Kyurem, like Terrakion or even Sheer Force Landorus' Focus Blast. Techniloom's Mach Punch also gets the job done pretty efficiently if SR is up. Your best bet is having something that can OHKO it once it locks itself into Outrage or breaks its Substitute.

[Subject 18]

Originally Posted by Fat Gimmick

Landorus-T (SD variant) makes a great partner for the standard Lucario because it can weaken a lot of its checks 1 on 1. It depends on your set, really. If you're using SD / Espeed / CC / Ice Punch or Crunch, stuff like Terrakion and Jellicent (if Ice Punch) can come in and wall the whole set. Landorus-T easily switches into Terrakion and can set up from there while a +2 EQ even when burned will still hurt Jellicent. Obviously, Gothitelle works wonders for actually trapping the aforementioned threats, but Landorus-T can sweep teams as well while Gothitelle can't. Like you said, TTar is good because it can trap ghost types that are immune to Espeed and CC. If you want a weatherless team, Scizor can make a good partner because it weakens fast steel type switch-ins like Scarf Jirachi (who may want to switch into Bullet Punch but get U-turned) and can still Pursuit trap Gengar and weakened Jellicents. Overall, though, Gothitelle and TTar make really good partners. Together, they remove Jellicent, Gengar, Gliscor, Terrakion, Slowbro. TTar also supplies residual sand damage which helps against Keldeo (who isn't OHKO'd by a +2 ExtremeSpeed). Like I said, it depends on the rest of your team and what you want to accomplish.

I'm actually thinking on using this set:

...

---

Lucario @ Life Orb
Trait: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Hp / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- ExtremeSpeed
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance

So with this set would you say Standard Landorus-T and Gothitelle in this case then?

[Tombst0ne]

Originally Posted by Fat Gimmick

...

---

You can read about Kyurem-B here. In summary, it's weak to several priority moves and Stealth Rock, has a shallow physical movepool, and has sub-par speed. Even though it boasts the highest attack stat in the tier, it has to lock into Outrage to OHKO the majority of switch-ins, leaving it easily revenge killed and quite predictable.

Since Kyurem-B has two distinctly different options of physical or special, it's not something you can counter with just 1 Pokemon. It can use a CB set, Scarf set, offensive Hone Claws set, defensive Hone Claws + Dragon Tail, Sub 3 attacks, etc. Steel types (even Bronzong) are decimated by Earth Power from the Sub 3 attacks set while specially defensive walls like Blissey are easily taken care of by powerful Dragon Claws. In my experience of using Sub 3 attacks Kyurem, there wasn't something that "countered" it, but several things checked it. For example, Scizor only took about 30-40% from Earth Power, but was able to OHKO with Bullet Punch. There are several fighting types in the tier to take advantage of a slow and open Kyurem, like Terrakion or even Sheer Force Landorus' Focus Blast. Techniloom's Mach Punch also gets the job done pretty efficiently if SR is up. Your best bet is having something that can OHKO it once it locks itself into Outrage or breaks its Substitute.

Priority eh? *runs some damage calculations* Well I'll be damned, priority and fast fighting types destroy him! I guess the reason I thought it should be uber is recently, I was up 5-2 when my opponent switched in a life orbed kyurem-b and swept me. As in ohkos all around. It was complete decimation and almost made me cry. This information is exactly what I was looking for so many thanks Gimmick!



New question: I threw together this team yesterday just to try some new stuff out, what glaring weaknesses do you guys see, as i'm sure it has some.

Scizor @ Choice Band
Heatran @ Leftovers
Jellicent @ Leftovers
Donphan @ Leftovers
Latios @ Choice Scarf
Thunderus-T @ Life orb

I'm not going to reveal exact setups in this thread so dont ask for them to be posted here. Though some of the sets are kind of obvious based on the items, but I digress. What I'd like to know is if you guys can see one particular pokemon or core of pokemon that could rip these guys apart.

[Cherub Agent]

Tyranitar paired with Keldeo and/or offensive Celebi seems like it could do a number on your team. Tyranitar can easily trap Latios, and offensive NP Giga Drain Earth Power HP Fire Celebi can then proceed to steamroll your team once Latios is down. Keldeo is also incredibly threatening once Jellicent and Latios are Pursuit trapped.

You also struggle imensely against Sun teams. As you can't change the weather on your own, Ninetales if free to come in turn 1 and can the fodder itself to allow Venusaur to come in. Venusaur can then proceed to clean up your entire team once it gets a boost off. If it's an EQ variant then Scizor can revenge kill it with Bullet Punch, but is obviously gonna run into trouble against Ninetales, Heatran, Victini and other Fire-types. If Venusaur is an HP Fire version then Heatran can beat it, but is easily trapped by Dugtrio.

[BurningMan]

Originally Posted by Fat Cherub Agent

Tyranitar paired with Keldeo and/or offensive Celebi seems like it could do a number on your team. Tyranitar can easily trap Latios, and offensive NP Giga Drain Earth Power HP Fire Celebi can then proceed to steamroll your team once Latios is down. Keldeo is also incredibly threatening once Jellicent and Latios are Pursuit trapped.

You also struggle imensely against Sun teams. As you can't change the weather on your own, Ninetales if free to come in turn 1 and can the fodder itself to allow Venusaur to come in. Venusaur can then proceed to clean up your entire team once it gets a boost off. If it's an EQ variant then Scizor can revenge kill it with Bullet Punch, but is obviously gonna run into trouble against Ninetales, Heatran, Victini and other Fire-types. If Venusaur is an HP Fire version then Heatran can beat it, but is easily trapped by Dugtrio.

IMO getting both Jellicent and Latios Pursuit trapped isn't exactly easy since TTar can only take so many hits and Jellicent can burn it also though if some one manages to do that you are likely going to lose however you can always outplay your opponent and i don't see that as a too big threat.
NP Celebie is hardly used anymore so i don't think its to much of a threat.

SD Lucario could be a threat if your opponent manages to get donphan weakend to 70% as it can set up on Scizor locked into BP or Latios -2 DM, but thats nothing too serious.
IMO Rain Stall and stall in general could be quite troublesome for you depending how good their Thundurus-T Check/Counter is and depending on what set you are running.

I really think you are good prepared against sun teams with Scizor, Heatran and Scarf Latios as well as a spin blocker i think most sun teams will have quite the difficulty playing against you, yes without a weather on your own venusaur can b quite troublesome, but with some smart plays it shouldn't be that much of a problem.

[Subject 18]

Can some explain what the Dark Horse Project is? and when does it start up again?